Post-match Thread: Charlton v Swindon | Sat 23 Jan 2021

JohnfromNorfolk said:

Ronnie had a goal disallowed for offside but wasn't.

He was absolutely offside. He even knew it by holding his hands up and not wanting the pass. A good half a yard off. 

carly burn said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Yes, that is where i would play him but he is above the level. When people pick on him and not players that are playing below the level, it is pretty telling.

If you watched that first half again, Williams was not the problem. Tidy with the ball, made a few decent runs. Great cross that Aneke should have done better with, great header in box that just didn't fall for Aneke. Got into good positions a number of times but ball didn't come to him. Had a great chance he should have done better with, but he got in the position and Shinnie and others did the same.

I'm not saying it was a MOTM performance or even his best. But if you are going to blame him or be ultra critical of him over it, it is more looking for a scapegoat than anything else.   

 Fine . So how do you explain the fact we played a hundred times better when he came off?

Bowyer changed shape to accommodate Shinnie.

Shinnie pulled the strings from central midfield; Williams was expected to play mostly from wide.

The team had lost it's a way a bit, after the lucky deflection 2nd  Swindon goal. 
Bowyer felt he needed a different approach. That's not necessarily the fault of Williams.

MuttleyCAFC said:

Cafc43v3r said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals. 

Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.

People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry

On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result 

Which players aren't good enough?

Not rocket science is it.

What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit.  Make you mind up man child. 

Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf

What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material

XI: Innis, Aneke, Schwartz, JFC, Watson, Gunter, Maddison

Bench: Oshilaja, Morgan, Washington, Pratley

Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.

Hardly screams best team in the league to me.

I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out? 

Did you not watch us in the championship last season?   Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?

You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt?  Because what they have produced in one is bench at best. 

Shinnie is shit is he?  Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us).  Don't think Purrington is league 1?  Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.

Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune. 

You forgot Jayden.  But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day. 

So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?

I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit.  These are not bad players.  They are All better than what they are producing.  You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you? 

Totally agree. It is part of the problem for me. People are seriously underrating the quality of the squad for the level, and by doing so not exposing the weaknesses of the manager. 

This I think is a key question/point of difference between the "Bowyer deserves time" and the "buck stops at Bowyer" divide.

I don't think anyone wants Bowyer sacked for the sake of it.  I think everyone would agree that in an ideal world Bowyer would take us back to the prem and have Curb like legand status. 

I think we have 25 senior pros on the books, John Sheridan would take all 25, including Bogle, yet we can't beat his team over 2 attempts. 

People need to ask 2 questions.  1) why can't Bowyer get these players playing together and 2) Why can't Bowyer get a formation that gets more than 2 or 3 of his best attacking players in the same team, why he signed them all? 

Wish I could give you 100 likes. 

Wish I could give you both 100 flags

Croydon said:

Our squad, even without Inniss and Famewo, is so much better than what we've been churning out for the last couple of months. Absolutely no way we should be sat mid table

I don't know mate I don't think we can underestimate the impact of such a poor central defence....and that is not to criticise deji, Pratley or Gunter who have been patched in there as I would put them as full backs rather than CMs naturally.

Add into that Pearce's loss of form since his return and it has been a colossal weakness in such an integral part of the team.

Probably have had the weakest central defence in the past 2 months in the league i.e. i doubt any other manager in league one would swap any of their defensive partnerships for our recent ones (Pearce excluded).

Seems to have had a knock on effect across the back 4 with only Maatsen seemingly consistently performing well (and standing out as a result). Doesn't seem to be any confidence at the back at it becomes self perpetuating awaiting for mistakes to occur which they seem to for ever game.

Now perhaps Bowyer could be criticised for not having enough back up but then in reality who would have believed we'd lose both iniss and Famewo for so long at the same time and captain fantastic Pearce would return a shadow of his former self after doing well enough in the championship.

With the wage cap, exodus and chaotic off the field end to last season that carried on over the summer it's a wonder we are even competing and testament that so many are disappointed.

Said it at the start of the season when takeover happened that expectations were wildly out of sync with reality in that yes we have a great new owner but it's not a magic bullet that's suddenly going to undo the inertia of recent years and we just need to stabilise and get back to normality this season.

It was always going to be a slog even more so after losing 2 colossal signings like iniss and Famewo.

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ? 

If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble.  Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are? 

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals. 

Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.

People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry

On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result 

Which players aren't good enough?

Not rocket science is it.

What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit.  Make you mind up man child. 

Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf

What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material

XI: Innis, Aneke, Schwartz, JFC, Watson, Gunter, Maddison

Bench: Oshilaja, Morgan, Washington, Pratley

Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.

Hardly screams best team in the league to me.

I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out? 

Did you not watch us in the championship last season?   Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?

You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt?  Because what they have produced in one is bench at best. 

Shinnie is shit is he?  Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us).  Don't think Purrington is league 1?  Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.

Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune. 

You forgot Jayden.  But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day. 

So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?

I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit.  These are not bad players.  They are All better than what they are producing.  You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you? 

Ok first of all appreciate you not being petty in your post, genuinely.

I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far. 

I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.

I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say. 

My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season. 

No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager 

As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term. 

I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man 

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ? 

If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble.  Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are? 

Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!??? 

Don't worry mate, the geezer thinks he knows better than everybody else.

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ? 

If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble.  Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are? 

Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!??? 

No YOU didn't MENTION shit and dregs but implying that the manger is doing well, or even better than expected, suggests you don't rate the players? 

Chunes said:

EveshamAddick said:

cafcsinger said:

We’re sliding into mid table obscurity, which with this squad is really embarrassing. Change of manager would likely be best i think

Still 6th though...

But the team above us have 2 extra points and 4 games in hand. Everyone else has at least 2 games in hand. It's going to look more bleak when they're caught up. Not to mention those below us with games to play.

If they win their games in hand. A few weeks back, we were the ones with games in hand - but we didn’t win them...

Braziliance said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Braziliance said:

A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals. 

Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.

People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry

On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result 

Which players aren't good enough?

Not rocket science is it.

What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit.  Make you mind up man child. 

Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf

What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material

XI: Innis, Aneke, Schwartz, JFC, Watson, Gunter, Maddison

Bench: Oshilaja, Morgan, Washington, Pratley

Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.

Hardly screams best team in the league to me.

I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out? 

Did you not watch us in the championship last season?   Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?

You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt?  Because what they have produced in one is bench at best. 

Shinnie is shit is he?  Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us).  Don't think Purrington is league 1?  Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.

Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune. 

You forgot Jayden.  But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day. 

So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?

I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit.  These are not bad players.  They are All better than what they are producing.  You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you? 

Ok first of all appreciate you not being petty in your post, genuinely.

I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far. 

I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.

I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say. 

My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season. 

No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager 

As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term. 

I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man 

I don't disagree with 99% of what you said but......

Let me put it like this do you think signing a load of 30+ year olds, on multiple year contracts is rebuilding?

Regardless of the rhetoric the facts are we have multiple 30 year olds that will eat into next season wage cap. Bowyer him self said something along the lines of "if I can sign the players I want we will get in the play offs".  They included Gunter, Watson and Maddison as minum.

We are paying them significantly more than the cap average.  He wanted them, they aren't playing well.  Who is to blame?

If he had signed 1 or 2 more "projects" and less "for now" players I think we would all agree that 6th, for now, was acceptable and he should be given time. He didn't.  That's the choices you make as a manager.  He can't now get out of it in the summer because of the contracts.  So as I see it it's if not now, when? 

Gunter has been as disappointing as most 'dissapointments' new signings  for me.

I just expected better from a 100 cap international and not making every pass 50/50 

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ? 

If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble.  Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are? 

Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!??? 

No YOU didn't MENTION shit and dregs but implying that the manger is doing well, or even better than expected, suggests you don't rate the players? 

To be honest, I’m giving my ‘head a wobble’ (whatever that means) trying to establish why I am engaging with someone like you. Let’s just agree to disagree treacle 😘 

I've been roamin' around, always lookin' down at all I see