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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Swindon | Sat 23 Jan 2021

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Comments

  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,179
    1StevieG said:
    This season is going the way of last season. We will hang on to 6th place and miss out on the play offs on the final game.
    We’ll have finished our season and then 10 teams will play their gazillion games in hand on us and we’ll drop to 13th 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,353
    Bowyer does have double-standards now and then, btw. Why didn't he give Millar both barrels after he not only jumped out of a tackle first-half but then put in an apology of a challenge before their second goal? Well, because he was obviously the best player on the field and was going to prove instrumental in any comeback.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,887
    edited January 2021
    Leuth said:
    Bowyer does have double-standards now and then, btw. Why didn't he give Millar both barrels after he not only jumped out of a tackle first-half but then put in an apology of a challenge before their second goal? Well, because he was obviously the best player on the field and was going to prove instrumental in any comeback.
    That's a fair observation but I'd hazard a guess that either someone higher up or the senior players have had a word in his shell like to think carefully before he now does his post match interviews and to cut out the personal ctritism of players. He may well have spoken to Millar in private or if not will do so tomorrow at the training ground when they've  analysed the game on the VT.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    RedChaser said:
    Leuth said:
    Bowyer does have double-standards now and then, btw. Why didn't he give Millar both barrels after he not only jumped out of a tackle first-half but then put in an apology of a challenge before their second goal? Well, because he was obviously the best player on the field and was going to prove instrumental in any comeback.
    That's a fair observation but I'd hazard a guess that either someone higher up or the senior players have had a word in his shell like to think carefully before he now does his post match interviews and to cut out the personal ctritism of players.
    I think your 100% spot on.  Someone has said something about a few things.  If this had been a new manager, after the 1st half hour against Rochdale, we would be celebrating "turning a corner".  I just feel its too little to late as previous dubious choices are still bitting him in the arse. 
  • Braziliance
    Braziliance Posts: 8,372
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Braziliance said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Braziliance said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Braziliance said:
    A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals. 

    Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.

    People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry

    On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result 
    Which players aren't good enough?

    Not rocket science is it.

    What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit.  Make you mind up man child. 
    Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf

    What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material

    XI: Innis, Aneke, Schwartz, JFC, Watson, Gunter, Maddison

    Bench: Oshilaja, Morgan, Washington, Pratley

    Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.

    Hardly screams best team in the league to me.

    I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out? 


    Did you not watch us in the championship last season?   Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?

    You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt?  Because what they have produced in one is bench at best. 

    Shinnie is shit is he?  Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us).  Don't think Purrington is league 1?  Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.

    Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune. 

    You forgot Jayden.  But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day. 

    So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?

    I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit.  These are not bad players.  They are All better than what they are producing.  You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you? 

    Ok first of all appreciate you not being petty in your post, genuinely.

    I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far. 

    I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.

    I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say. 

    My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season. 

    No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager 

    As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term. 

    I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man 


    I don't disagree with 99% of what you said but......

    Let me put it like this do you think signing a load of 30+ year olds, on multiple year contracts is rebuilding?

    Regardless of the rhetoric the facts are we have multiple 30 year olds that will eat into next season wage cap. Bowyer him self said something along the lines of "if I can sign the players I want we will get in the play offs".  They included Gunter, Watson and Maddison as minum.

    We are paying them significantly more than the cap average.  He wanted them, they aren't playing well.  Who is to blame?

    If he had signed 1 or 2 more "projects" and less "for now" players I think we would all agree that 6th, for now, was acceptable and he should be given time. He didn't.  That's the choices you make as a manager.  He can't now get out of it in the summer because of the contracts.  So as I see it it's if not now, when? 
    What players are you referring to? Schwartz is a player and seems like the type to me to play into his mid 30s, Gunter should be better than he is, it happens, Watson is only on a one year? If not Watson is decent to have around anyone, good role model for the younger players. Who else does that leave? 

    A fair chunk of the players I don't rate/see us going forward with our out of contract in the summer so he will get a chance to rebuild.

    I think the players he signed with the pedigree they came with should be performing better. It happens to every club in the world, we won't be the first club to sign players who can't carry their form to another club and we won't be the last. That is the nature of football, Bowyers hit rate with signings outweighs his duds, unfortunately they end up leaving. Hopefully with TS this happens far less
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,420
    Once again we switched to 4-4-2 diamond and looked much better, too little too late in the end.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,121
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    In my position as arbiter of reasonableness I wish our fans would stop identifying our poor run of form as being in any way to do with the manager.  Obviously there is a conspiracy against Lord Bowyer.  Let's give him till the end of the season when our failure to win much can be re-evaluated and the chance to rebuild will no doubt lead to a successful season - if you disagree you are clearly anti Charlton and want us to fail.
    You were doing very well until the final comment.  I was then looking for the flag button.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,681
    Two things to ponder about over the next 24/48 hours.

    After tues we don't have another midweek game for a month. This should mean that Bowyer can play a settled side during that period (injuries aside). No need for tinkering or resting players. It also means (I would assume) that a lot of teams around us will play their games in hand as there are 3 blank midweeks before there are a number of sat/tues/sat matches up to Easter. The table could look a lot different come end of Feb.  

    Next season the wage cap is worse - I believe it might by £2m in total rather than £2.5m as it is now. If so, things could get a lot bleaker before they get better. It could mean getting rid of some higher earners (like Gunter & Matthews) and players coming to the end of their contracts (Pearce) are let go. That means more rebuilding & more cost cutting.o also believe the squad size is cut from 23 to 20 - so lesser players on lesser money. 

    Something to think about if you are in the "let's give Bowyer a free ride this season & let him build a squad for next season" camp. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,420
    2 wins or go for me now.
    We need promotion this season, the situation gets worse next.

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  • Rob
    Rob Posts: 11,816
    Dazzler21 said:
    2 wins or go for me now.
    We need promotion this season, the situation gets worse next.
    And releasing him in two games will guarantee promotion? My life!!
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,420
    Rob said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    2 wins or go for me now.
    We need promotion this season, the situation gets worse next.
    And releasing him in two games will guarantee promotion? My life!!
    Nope but it gives us a better fighting chance than doing nothing.

    Why does he get a free season? Next season the excuses will only be worse.

    I know we're currently 6th but when all the games are done on PPG we're 9th/10th.

    Whatever the excuses this season that's not good enough.
  • Braziliance
    Braziliance Posts: 8,372
    edited January 2021
    Btw can we do something about the lol system and add maybe a disagree option, you see I want to know if I'm actually a funny guy or not and use my post to lol ratio to determine how much so, but all my serious posts today have been lol'd. Very hard to get a true reflection 
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,261
    Not that I'm in any way defending him @Leuth (Millar not Bowyer) I think because if how much he has affected play and wanted the ball wherever he is on the pitch coupled with the fact he isn't our player meant he couldn't rip him a new one publicly 

    Me and my group were all fuming at Millar fannying out of that challenge because we were all Saturday and Sunday league players who to a man wouldn't do that, what Millar has shown is how valuable defensively he is in the same way Jerome Thomas used to be, get the ball deep in our half, get shit kicked, win foul, relieve pressure. Millar has shown for every ball he has been near and looks to beat his opposite number, I love watching it. And I think he still hasn't hit his stride yet
  • RickAddick
    RickAddick Posts: 1,199
    RedChaser said:
    Leuth said:
    Bowyer does have double-standards now and then, btw. Why didn't he give Millar both barrels after he not only jumped out of a tackle first-half but then put in an apology of a challenge before their second goal? Well, because he was obviously the best player on the field and was going to prove instrumental in any comeback.
    That's a fair observation but I'd hazard a guess that either someone higher up or the senior players have had a word in his shell like to think carefully before he now does his post match interviews and to cut out the personal ctritism of players. He may well have spoken to Millar in private or if not will do so tomorrow at the training ground when they've  analysed the game on the VT.
    My take:
    Williams is not Lee's type of player. 
    Lee doesn't fully respect and trust him to do a job, hence the fact that he hasn't started or played consistently through the season to date. 
    As an international and League 1 plus level player, Williams should be self selecting from the start in every game at this level.  Otherwise what is the point of having him in the squad?
    But his limitations and frailty means that he is not the right player for 90 minutes in every game and needs to be applied to a game selectively.  Apply him in the wrong game becomes the wrong tactic and endless criticism in the post match thread on here.
    Always a case, imo, of which Williams is going to turn up?!
    General frustration with Williams led to both barrels being fired in his direction.
    Millar however, is young, skilled, can do a job, has made an immediate impact and has become self-selecting very quickly.  He is a loanee, so tact needs to be applied to avoid upsetting his home club and damaging relationships. 
    A public outburst, digging out a loanee could have a very significant impact on all loans to Charlton and we can't do without them for this season at least. 
    No Premiership or Championship club is going to send us their developing players to be given public beastings by our manager. Just not going to happen. 
    Millar is part of the solution and his impact in the team will help inform a decision in the next few months on whether Lee keeps his job.
    I think Lee understands this and will keep and criticism he may have out of the public domain, for his own good...
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,378
    edited January 2021
    Dazzler21 said:
    2 wins or go for me now.
    We need promotion this season, the situation gets worse next.
    But the owner's aim this season is only for the play-offs and next season to have a real push at getting promoted. 

    When fans are back in stadiums (hopefully next year after mass vaccinations) then there's no need for the wage cap and it's probably out. Or else footballers are just in a very similar situation where if they want to play, they're going to have to accept less. There's only so many Championship squad places after all and they can't just go and play in Europe now because they don't have the worker's rights. So what choice do they have?

    I can't complain about how we've been managed over the past few games. Our shape has been excellent and the lineups have been right. The signings (like Millar) also look transformative. Today I feel positive that our surreal run of luck on the field is going to turn a corner soon. 
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    So managers usually have exactly the same reaction to every single situation, in every single game, or they're get called out?

    Totally unnderstand the criticism flying about of Bowyer, but it's the splitting hairs that I don't get. If he'd publicly slated another player for bottling a tackle, he'd have got pulled up, but now he ain't, he's being accused of double standards. And all this after a relatively short period from when the majority were hailing a new dawn with TS taking over
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,913
    oohaahmortimer said:
    JoshAddick said:
    Washington to score this.
    I’ll be honest , i didn’t ever fancy him to convert .
    There’s something about him that just gives me no confidence in him , i can’t quite put my finger on it but I don’t rate him at all but he ain’t that bad , it’s all  a bit confusing 
    i agree and tbh , if his first touch was better, he wouldn't have been stretching or needed to go round the keeper - he does the odd good thing but overall just isn't a dangerous striker - defenders won't be worried about coming up against him  
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,913
    RedChaser said:
    Leuth said:
    Bowyer does have double-standards now and then, btw. Why didn't he give Millar both barrels after he not only jumped out of a tackle first-half but then put in an apology of a challenge before their second goal? Well, because he was obviously the best player on the field and was going to prove instrumental in any comeback.
    That's a fair observation but I'd hazard a guess that either someone higher up or the senior players have had a word in his shell like to think carefully before he now does his post match interviews and to cut out the personal ctritism of players. He may well have spoken to Millar in private or if not will do so tomorrow at the training ground when they've  analysed the game on the VT.
    he also seemed half pissed when interviewed by minto after the game -almost giggly - probably banged a case of them laughing gas capsule things - maybe the medical team have prescribed them to chill him out before the post match interviews 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,913
    felt like i was watching the inspector high on gas when clueso was about to rip the wrong tooth out - 'did u see how ridiculous our defending was scotty ? my players, mistake after mistake, miss after miss - its hilarious, even the linesman didn't know the rules - what can u do? i just laugh it off now, the medical team have helped me do that - live, love, laugh and be happy scotty  :)  

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  • bromdog
    bromdog Posts: 132
    I think it’s worth remembering back to Powell’s first season. We were dreadful after he took over, he was given the summer transfer window and backing to do it his way and went up the following season. Bowyer hasn’t had a fair crack at a transfer window yet, managed us through some terrible times with owners, and now Covid and a false season and he has worked wonders. He needs backing for another year at least. Everyone wants instant success, it’s worth taking a step back and remembering the state of our club the last few years.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,913
    'i publicly berated a player 2 weeks ago for jumping out of a tackle and now my new signing has just done the same and cost us the game - its hilarious but fuck me this laughing gas is blinding - wait til i get home and fire up a large reefer - as browny said, i'm adventurous, all this trying to be a serious manager aint working - i'm larging it up again now and enjoying it again - rave on scotty'
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,913
    bromdog said:
    I think it’s worth remembering back to Powell’s first season. We were dreadful after he took over, he was given the summer transfer window and backing to do it his way and went up the following season. Bowyer hasn’t had a fair crack at a transfer window yet, managed us through some terrible times with owners, and now Covid and a false season and he has worked wonders. He needs backing for another year at least. Everyone wants instant success, it’s worth taking a step back and remembering the state of our club the last few years.
    i have no problem waiting, i had a problem watching the over defensive stuff - if he can get pratley out of the team and not put watson in, i don't need promotion this year to be happy and will just enjoy watching the matches 
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,162
    CAFCsayer said:
    Doomer Jon said:
    Thanks Washington for missing that sitter. Cost me £45. Idiot.
    Cost me 600! 😭😭😭
    No it didn't - it cost you the price of your stake.  :)
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,162
    Not read any of the comments past the above. I thought we played well, as Brownie, Curbs, Scott and Bow said after, on another day we would have won that comfortably. I am not allowed to say we were unlucky, so we just need to cut the mistakes down to zero a game, like no other team in history has ever done,  and we will be fine.    
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,179
    se9addick said:
    Doomer Jon said:
    JoshAddick said:
    Washington to score this.
    Unbelievable. Pub League miss. Rubbish defence but our finishing was garbage 
    You can’t freeze frame real life - the ball was moving away from him and the defender is closing the angle down. Not impossible to score, but not “pub league” to miss.
    He didn’t give us a chance of scoring by going that side of the post , he has to hit it the other side of the post to have a chance of us scoring , yes may hit defender but deflections can go in and don’t we know , he didn’t buy himself a ticket so could neve win the raffle , basic stuff 
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,179
    The sort of match last season when we had 20% possession (ok not that low I’m being sarcastic) and came away with a win or a draw and plenty would say oh it’s the goals that count the only number that matters is the final result but now we’re losing it’s the performance we cling on to ...

    For the record the performances are the gage for me and we will improve may be too late but it’s embarrassing how shit we have been .
    I’m prolly on my own but I want Watson back in, he hasn’t been great in his more recent performances but I believe he offers a decent level of protection for our pathetic defence .
  • agim
    agim Posts: 1,135
    Cafc43v3r said:
    agim said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    He did as much as JFC and Pratley in the first half and had more quality than Pratley. He needs others doing their bit around him. Very short sighted to pick on him. If you analyse his first half performance it was not bad.  
    Williams is a attacking midfielder that has no end product. What's it 2 goals for us in 3 years and maybe 10 assists? That stats are there. Everyone likes him because he seems like a nice fella and us charlton fans love a rags to riches underdog story but he's not the answer in a struggling team. Morgan, Shinnie, Millar even JFC do more going forward 
    Hardly a rags to riches story when he was earning 15k a week since he was a teenager. 

    Williams doesn't get loads of goals and assists but to not see what he can bring to a team, when played in the correct position, is blinkered.

    You either play him there, or there is no point having him.  He is almost as non versatile as a goal keeper, but he his very good at what he does, if allowed. 
    Rags to riches is OBVIOUSLY a metaphor. I'm not talking about a footballers financial state here LOL. I'm saying he got dumped by every club he was at and then quite publicly because of the Netflix documentary Sunderland. What I'm saying is I think we all wanted him to succeed that little bit more because of this.

    He was also quite open about his mental health issues and I for one was quite proud that he'd came to our club and "found his home" He's had some good games for us but for me he's just nowhere near consistent enough. If my views are "blinkered" to you then fair enough but the fella who scored both of Poshs goals on Tuesday made more runs and was more dangerous in 30 mins that JW has been all season. Don't be clouded by sentiment 

  • EveshamAddick
    EveshamAddick Posts: 7,023
    Interesting that both yesterday and in the away 2-2 at Swindon, they only had 2 shots on target and both went in. Could Amos be doing better? That means in both those games he failed to save any shots on target.
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,179
    Wasn’t it Pearce who deflected Swindon’s effort on to the post at 1-2 down

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