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Has Bowyer lost it?
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From an outsider looking in, what would your view of Klopp be if you noticed that he had played salah at wing back and Arnold Trent at left back?esseffect said:Klopp must have ‘lost it’ too huh?0 -
Soon be Easter and the Bowyer Disciples will see Inniss and Famewo rise and Charlton will never concede another goal or lose another game. This according to them is our one and only issue.........
What really worries me, is if he thinks the same thing.......... !1 -
To be fair Klopp played central midfielder James Milner at left back for most of a season, converted Firmino from a 10 to a striker and has been playing two central midfielders at centre back over two youth centre backs in recent weeks. Chamberlain and Shaqiri, both get switched between playing as wingers or central midfielders regularly. Managers move players around all the time, I think they get a disproportionate amount of stick when it doesn't work because it's an easy target.Todds_right_hook said:
From an outsider looking in, what would your view of Klopp be if you noticed that he had played salah at wing back and Arnold Trent at left back?esseffect said:Klopp must have ‘lost it’ too huh?
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You’ve just compared two fringe players with their best players. I won’t playTodds_right_hook said:
From an outsider looking in, what would your view of Klopp be if you noticed that he had played salah at wing back and Arnold Trent at left back?esseffect said:Klopp must have ‘lost it’ too huh?0 -
I think that the issues you highlight will dawn on the league one clubs who will realise that stepping up will be almost impossible. The cap will go at some point. Possibly not next season but eventually. My guess is season 23/24mascot88 said:I think we are in big trouble and it’ll be a few years down here and then become even harder as Championship teams come down with far higher quality, bigger teams like us and Sunderland can’t buy there way out. So it’s a massive problem, the youth will have to have very real financial incentives built into promotion to TRY and keep hold of them, I have a bad feeling that Durchatelet really has had the last laugh here.But Sandgaard is smart and so is Lee and Gallen, it’s just going to get harder and harder, unless we find some other way, which I can’t see at the moment.0 -
The thing about the cap is that it can't be a permanent thing. You develop a player and can't better their contract as they improve? You are pushing up the salaries of young average players and pulling down the salaries of more experienced ones. TBH, I am amazed the PFA haven't protested more.2
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But the nucleus of League One clubs don't prioritise being promoted to the Championship.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think that the issues you highlight will dawn on the league one clubs who will realise that stepping up will be almost impossible. The cap will go at some point. Possibly not next season but eventually. My guess is season 23/24mascot88 said:I think we are in big trouble and it’ll be a few years down here and then become even harder as Championship teams come down with far higher quality, bigger teams like us and Sunderland can’t buy there way out. So it’s a massive problem, the youth will have to have very real financial incentives built into promotion to TRY and keep hold of them, I have a bad feeling that Durchatelet really has had the last laugh here.But Sandgaard is smart and so is Lee and Gallen, it’s just going to get harder and harder, unless we find some other way, which I can’t see at the moment.
For those smaller clubs, it's mostly about staying in League One and not being relegated ....... one disastrous season in League Two could see them lose their Football League status. They may never recover.
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Martin Samuel in todays Daily Mail
Salary cap will kill the Championship's last lifeline - ambition
Not a minute too soon, it seems the Championship clubs have come to their senses. There is unlikely to be a cap on ambition in the second tier, following the intervention of Brentford, Norwich and Bournemouth.
Those three clubs, all chasing promotion, took apart the proposals to enforce punishing salary limitations on the competition, in a way that would leave its members helpless if promoted to the Premier League.
What is astonishing is that the flaws even needed highlighting. Little here was revelatory. Not every club in the Championship is Wycombe Wanderers. Some have wealthy owners who wish to invest; others enjoy healthy crowds and commercial potential.
Why should they be limited to an £18million cap just because some of their rivals do not wish to spend, or are happy to tread water? And why would a new owner buy into the league, if progress is thwarted by red tape?
As one executive at a Premier League club calculated, an £18m cap would equate to salaries of £12,000 a week. Players who can be recruited for that cost are unlikely to be of elite standard. Promoted teams would need to spend greatly to survive, or simply yo-yo between the leagues.
If the same three went up, went down, went up, went down, the Championship as a vibrant competition would be dead. The reason it remains among the most popular leagues in Europe is its uncertainty.
Ambitious owners getting it right, getting it wrong, complete surprise packages like Sheffield United or, previously, Blackpool. ‘Impotent,’ was how the salary cap’s opponents described their future status.
It is too late for the leagues below but no different there. John Coleman, manager of Accrington Stanley, spoke in favour of the current salary cap regulations — already implemented — but his club are among the beneficiaries.
‘If people policed themselves, were more prudent and respected the football club, the sport could use this as a chance to reset,’ he said. ‘Look at clubs like Notts County who were spending ridiculous amounts of money in League Two. The absence of a regulator probably led to the need for a salary cap.’
Yet at the time football shut down during the 2019-20 season, Accrington were averaging crowds of 2,862 in the same division where Sunderland were drawing 30,118, Ipswich 19,549 and Portsmouth 17,804.
Sunderland’s gates were bigger than any club outside the Premier League. How can they be tied to the same budget as Accrington Stanley? And why is the duty to be prudent, rather than to invest to get a club of that size out of tier three?
Football is more than accountancy with groin strains. The Championship is a compelling league because clubs have the ambition to leave it behind. Strangle that and it’s just inferior football, played by inferior players in an inferior competition, all appeal and relevance gone.
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It is a fair point. You cannot tie in better resourced clubs with the likes of Accrington. I can understand the sentiment but football clubs always vote what is best for them, never what is best for the game and sadly this cap is no different.
This cap is ultimately going to impact the livelihoods of players. It needs scrapping or at least allowing a bit more wriggle room for clubs that can clearly afford to pay players a little more.0 -
The salary cap makes players who can't do 90 minutes, play twice a week and handle the full range of pitch conditions an expensive luxury...8
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I refuse to pick a side on the bowyer in Vs out argument because I think there’s arguments for both, so long as you’re not slagging the geeza off like the selfie teenage Twitter dickheads.
BUT, I think I’ll be on the bowyer out team if we fail to win either of the next two, big week ahead I think, season defining.7 -
I will say that he seems to be trying to sort his issues out. The last three games I haven't groaned when I have seen the team. I think we would have been better off getting rid, and still would, rather than waiting for him to repair the damage he has done but I do think he is trying to repair it.
But I have never viewed our club as the Lee Bowyer Benevolent Society. He is a well paid manager, paid to do a job and if he does it well he has my support and if he does it badly he doesn't.2 -
If we fail to win our next two we could be as low as 11th with 1.42 PPG (1.65 and 7th/8th if we win them both)0 -
I think if we miss out on the play-offs I don't see why Bowyer should be here next season. The squad is easily good enough to get into the top 6.7
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If there's no sign of improvement by the end of the season he should go.SELR_addicks said:I think if we miss out on the play-offs I don't see why Bowyer should be here next season. The squad is easily good enough to get into the top 6.1 -
But there's lots of signs of improvement in the last few games, isn't there?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If there's no sign of improvement by the end of the season he should go.SELR_addicks said:I think if we miss out on the play-offs I don't see why Bowyer should be here next season. The squad is easily good enough to get into the top 6.
We're playing well enough, even if we haven't quite got the results. Fine margins and all that ......results could just as easily follow.
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Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance0
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It's the Bowyer way, I'm afraid. It's not what I would do, but then I'm not the manager.hudson-son-son said:Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance
#settled side where possible
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I'm not unsympathetic to this idea BUT how long have we been saying this now? It's bad luck, a blip, form is temporary etc. This has been said for several months now and the results are still no better.Oggy Red said:
But there's lots of signs of improvement in the last few games, isn't there?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If there's no sign of improvement by the end of the season he should go.SELR_addicks said:I think if we miss out on the play-offs I don't see why Bowyer should be here next season. The squad is easily good enough to get into the top 6.
We're playing well enough, even if we haven't quite got the results. Fine margins and all that ......results could just as easily follow.
There have been elements of play getting better, more cohesion going forward, a bit more attacking impetus. But the defence has been so bad for so long that it renders that near enough moot.0 -
Which settled side do you want to start Tuesday? The side that started or the one that finished?Oggy Red said:
It's the Bowyer way, I'm afraid. It's not what I would do, but then I'm not the manager.hudson-son-son said:Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance
#settled side where possibleDo you want to play the 4-4-2 we started with or the second half diamond.
MK are playing well with a 3-5-2 and are strong down their left. Would that effect your decision?
If Chucks or JFC are struggling a bit, still play them?
Personally I would match their 3-5-2 as I think Oshi playing on the rhs of Pearce with Purrington on the left would give us a bit more protection down that rh side, and would play Gunter JFC, Pratley Morgan Millar midfield. I think that would also give us the option of changing tactics during the game i.e move Millar to the point.0 - Sponsored links:
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I'd stick with the formation that we do tend to do better with. I'd go with these players.Redrobo said:
Which settled side do you want to start Tuesday? The side that started or the one that finished?Oggy Red said:
It's the Bowyer way, I'm afraid. It's not what I would do, but then I'm not the manager.hudson-son-son said:Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance
#settled side where possibleDo you want to play the 4-4-2 we started with or the second half diamond.
MK are playing well with a 3-5-2 and are strong down their left. Would that effect your decision?
If Chucks or JFC are struggling a bit, still play them?
Personally I would match their 3-5-2 as I think Oshi playing on the rhs of Pearce with Purrington on the left would give us a bit more protection down that rh side, and would play Gunter JFC, Pratley Morgan Millar midfield. I think that would also give us the option of changing tactics during the game i.e move Millar to the point.
AmosMatthews - Gunter - Oshilaja - PurringtonWatsonShinnie - F.Caskey
MillarWashington - Schwartz1 -
Loyalty is a two way thing, the bloke who went to forest had none for whatever reason, Lee has stayed with us.8
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I think that playing against five in midfield the diamond would get overrun and that the ball would never stick up front with those two playing together which would make the situation worse.Dazzler21 said:
I'd stick with the formation that we do tend to do better with. I'd go with these players.Redrobo said:
Which settled side do you want to start Tuesday? The side that started or the one that finished?Oggy Red said:
It's the Bowyer way, I'm afraid. It's not what I would do, but then I'm not the manager.hudson-son-son said:Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance
#settled side where possibleDo you want to play the 4-4-2 we started with or the second half diamond.
MK are playing well with a 3-5-2 and are strong down their left. Would that effect your decision?
If Chucks or JFC are struggling a bit, still play them?
Personally I would match their 3-5-2 as I think Oshi playing on the rhs of Pearce with Purrington on the left would give us a bit more protection down that rh side, and would play Gunter JFC, Pratley Morgan Millar midfield. I think that would also give us the option of changing tactics during the game i.e move Millar to the point.
AmosMatthews - Gunter - Oshilaja - PurringtonWatsonShinnie - F.Caskey
MillarWashington - Schwartz
All about opinions which just goes to show that Bowyer is never going to please us all unless he is winning.3 -
Yeah, it's a good question ......... and I'm not going to disagree with any of that, @RedroboRedrobo said:
Which settled side do you want to start Tuesday? The side that started or the one that finished?Oggy Red said:
It's the Bowyer way, I'm afraid. It's not what I would do, but then I'm not the manager.hudson-son-son said:Hope so, but you can also see there being 4 changes for the next game coming off an improved performance
#settled side where possibleDo you want to play the 4-4-2 we started with or the second half diamond.
MK are playing well with a 3-5-2 and are strong down their left. Would that effect your decision?
If Chucks or JFC are struggling a bit, still play them?
Personally I would match their 3-5-2 as I think Oshi playing on the rhs of Pearce with Purrington on the left would give us a bit more protection down that rh side, and would play Gunter JFC, Pratley Morgan Millar midfield. I think that would also give us the option of changing tactics during the game i.e move Millar to the point.
But as I said, I'm not the manager.
In another thread, I asked, "What would Curbs do?"
You know and I know, Curbs would match up.
Tongue-in-cheek of course ..... but then Curbs usually liked a settled side. Hence my hashtag above.
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No such thing is “loyalty” in football, if you need confirmation ask the 20 or so 18 year olds that we release every year despite them having been with us since they were young children.cblock said:Loyalty is a two way thing, the bloke who went to forest had none for whatever reason, Lee has stayed with us.The only people who are truly loyal to a club are the fans, pretty much everyone else (with a very few exceptions) have different motivations.8 -
Totase9addick said:
Agree with you, been an active fan since 1971.
No such thing is “loyalty” in football, if you need confirmation ask the 20 or so 18 year olds that we release every year despite them having been with us since they were young children.cblock said:Loyalty is a two way thing, the bloke who went to forest had none for whatever reason, Lee has stayed with us.The only people who are truly loyal to a club are the fans, pretty much everyone else (with a very few exceptions) have different motivations.1 -
MuttleyCAFC said:I will say that he seems to be trying to sort his issues out. The last three games I haven't groaned when I have seen the team. I think we would have been better off getting rid, and still would, rather than waiting for him to repair the damage he has done but I do think he is trying to repair it.
But I have never viewed our club as the Lee Bowyer Benevolent Society. He is a well paid manager, paid to do a job and if he does it well he has my support and if he does it badly he doesn't.
Some good points Muttley, especially about the lightbulb moment 3 games ago when I stopped being baffled by his line ups and players started to play in positions that suited their talents.
Creating 10 chances in a match is a superb achievement: only scoring twice is not so clever, but earlier in the season we created one chance which ended up in Row Z from Aneke.
Luckily I didn't pay for the Sunderland game because I was at live games from lower down the pyrimid because I prefer to judge footballers and tactics by seeing the whole pitch.
I respect your View on Lee Bowyer but I still want to see Lee given the whole Season before a professional decision is made on can he take this club forward.
I do feel Bowyer had a really poor spell despite the mitigation again. I live in hope that we have a fit squad to pick from so there are no excuses.
Miracles take a little on the injury front.2 -
I think deep down TS knows Bowyer is not going to be the man to lead us forward long term. I think if we'd lost yesterday the decision would have been made easier for him, but the come backs against Rochdale and Swindon have brought him some more time2
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We're not playing well enough going by results. Hopefully results will improve if we cut down on errors.Oggy Red said:
But there's lots of signs of improvement in the last few games, isn't there?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If there's no sign of improvement by the end of the season he should go.SELR_addicks said:I think if we miss out on the play-offs I don't see why Bowyer should be here next season. The squad is easily good enough to get into the top 6.
We're playing well enough, even if we haven't quite got the results. Fine margins and all that ......results could just as easily follow.
We can only get better.0
This discussion has been closed.
