Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Maddison

13567

Comments

  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    mendonca said:
    TS will hear constant references to the salary cap that's "killing us" and then see his money wasted on a player who was meant to put goals on a plate for forwards, that's no longer being talked about with the same expectation and skillset on offer.
    I think TS has the intelligence to understand.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,801
    Not every player is going to work out, salary cap or not, Madison is one, the idea that every signing has to be perfect is for the birds. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    ForeverAddickted said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    PragueAddick said:
    bolloxbolder said:
    Fosu, Williams, Oztumer and Maddison. Flair players unable to be managed by Bowyer. 
    Conor Gallagher, Joe Aribo, ahem, Lyle Taylor, Andrew Shinnie, and now Liam Miller. All flair players who flourish(ed) under Bowyer, but they all also work their bollocks off for the team. Anyone who listened to Liam Miller's post-match interview last night could not fail to be impressed by his attitude too. 
    Yes I agree. You can compare Taylor and Maddison, two flair players who I would regard to be quite stroppy. One like you say, works their bollocks off for the team. My issue is that Bowyer tracked Maddison for a year and knew what he was getting, now seems to be quite stroppy himself!

    For the record, I'm Bowyer over Maddison. Really not sure the latter wants to be here at all and had little choice but to accept our offer. I'm just really confused as to why we signed him. 
    I constantly wonder if Bowyer thought he could turn Maddison around

    Taylor didnt really need turning around as much prior to joining but Bowyer definitely improved him

    Its the only reason I can think of

    Either that or quite bluntly they've sat down and gone: "Well he's the only real option"
    That can be the only reason. Bowyer did improve Taylor's all round game, but he already had the desire to win football matches. Maddison doesn't have half that desire, but has so much quality on the ball. 

    I don't buy that he was the only real option. I think that is true with someone like Bogle, but Bowyer wanted Maddison. The truth can only be that he thought he could change him and get him working harder. That's a risk and if that gamble doesn't pay off then some fault simply has to lay at Bowyer's door. 
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,801
    I get the feeling Maddison had been indulged a bit at Peterborough, and allowed to do what he wanted to do, as long as he could do his thing, both at Hull and Charlton, that hasn't been indulged, and he's struggled at both clubs. 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,301
    Thoughts?


    I'd say more Maddison doesn't like Bowyer. If you compare all this to Robbie Savage's 'top 10 tips to force a move' or get the manager out its almost as if he's following it step by step
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    edited January 2021
    golfaddick said:
    Good job Bowyer didn't manage years ago otherwise the country would never have seen the likes of George Best, Rodney Marsh or our very own Killer.
    There were plenty of managers who had a team ethic first and foremost coupled with an ‘it’s my way or the highway’ approach. Sir Alf Ramsay for one, no fancy Dan’s in his World Cup winning side. Brian Clough, Don Revie and Ron Saunders were others.

    More closer to home, Lennie who had a difference of opinion with Colin Walsh and sent him to Middlesbrough and then back to Charlton when he got the managers job there. Curbs didn’t stand for any nonsense either and didn’t hesitate to make a player train with the youth team as a penance. 

    Of course some adopted an arm round the shoulder approach and were good at signing misfits and turning their careers around. Joe Mercer and Harry Redknapp spring to mind especially with Di Caneo at West Ham. 

    However the most overriding thing with all styles of football management is getting the players to pull in the same direction. If there’s one or two players not onboard with the managers requirements then it’s bye bye, best if you find another club where your particular skills fit. The boss put his faith in you and gave you a gig, don’t let him down!
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,301
    RedChaser said:
    golfaddick said:
    Good job Bowyer didn't manage years ago otherwise the country would never have seen the likes of George Best, Rodney Marsh or our very own Killer.
    There were plenty of managers who had a team ethic first and foremost coupled with an ‘it’s my way or the highway’ approach. Sir Alf Ramsay for one, no fancy Dan’s in his World Cup winning side. Brian Clough, Don Revie and Ron Saunders were others.

    More closer to home, Lennie who had a difference of opinion with Colin Walsh and sent him to Middlesbrough and then back to Charlton when he got the managers job there. Curbs didn’t stand for any nonsense either and didn’t hesitate to make a player train with the youth team as a penance. 

    Of course some adopted an arm round the shoulder approach and were good at signing misfits and turning their careers around. Joe Mercer and Harry Redknapp spring to mind especially with Di Caneo at West Ham. However the most overriding thing with all styles of football management is getting the players to pull in the same direction. If there’s one or two players not onboard with the managers requirements then it’s bye bye, best if you find another club where your particular skills fit.
    Dont forget the biggest of them all... Alex Ferguson!! - Jaap Stam, David Beckham are two that he ailenated and ended up leaving due to arguments that surely dont come close to how Bowyer has reacted to player performances
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,031
    roseandcrown said:
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-manager-lee-bowyer-provides-update-on-marcus-maddisons-fitness/

    Bowyer saying it without saying it
    Bowyer clearly has issues with Maddison, which begs the question, "why bring him in, in the first place?" 
  • Sponsored links:



  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    roseandcrown said:
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-manager-lee-bowyer-provides-update-on-marcus-maddisons-fitness/

    Bowyer saying it without saying it
    Bowyer clearly has issues with Maddison, which begs the question, "why bring him in, in the first place?" 
    Because maybe he didn't have issues with him before he signed him?
  • RC_CAFC
    RC_CAFC Posts: 1,754
    PragueAddick said:
    bolloxbolder said:
    Fosu, Williams, Oztumer and Maddison. Flair players unable to be managed by Bowyer. 
    Conor Gallagher, Joe Aribo, ahem, Lyle Taylor, Andrew Shinnie, and now Liam Miller. All flair players who flourish(ed) under Bowyer, but they all also work their bollocks off for the team. Anyone who listened to Liam Miller's post-match interview last night could not fail to be impressed by his attitude too. 
    This, this and 100% this. I will repeat that we had 10 days to get a squad together and Maddison's track record of goals and assists was worth the risk. Bowyer has repeatedly said that if you don't give 100% for him, you don't play. How anyone can't admire him sticking to his guns on that I have no idea. I only want people who are 100% committed playing for us.

    Liam Millar the perfect example of this last night.

    I don't blame anyone taking the risk on Maddison, I equally don't blame anyone but Maddison if he is fit and not getting game time because it will 100% be his attitude and not his unquestionable talent.
  • PeanutsMolloy
    PeanutsMolloy Posts: 6,705
    edited January 2021
    Valley11 said:
    Maddison doesn’t work anywhere near hard enough on the pitch and, allegedly, off it.
    That’s a prerequisite for Bowyer, and I agree with him.
    He talked the other day about what a privileged position the players are in.
    Personally I like that we’ve got a manager with views like that, who clearly doesn’t want bad apples disrupting the squad or that work ethic.
    Work hard like Millar did last night, and you earn the right to do step overs. Don’t and you’re out.
    I’m more than happy with that philosophy. 
    .... and this
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    RC_CAFC said:
    PragueAddick said:
    bolloxbolder said:
    Fosu, Williams, Oztumer and Maddison. Flair players unable to be managed by Bowyer. 
    Conor Gallagher, Joe Aribo, ahem, Lyle Taylor, Andrew Shinnie, and now Liam Miller. All flair players who flourish(ed) under Bowyer, but they all also work their bollocks off for the team. Anyone who listened to Liam Miller's post-match interview last night could not fail to be impressed by his attitude too. 
    This, this and 100% this. I will repeat that we had 10 days to get a squad together and Maddison's track record of goals and assists was worth the risk. Bowyer has repeatedly said that if you don't give 100% for him, you don't play. How anyone can't admire him sticking to his guns on that I have no idea. I only want people who are 100% committed playing for us.

    Liam Millar the perfect example of this last night.

    I don't blame anyone taking the risk on Maddison, I equally don't blame anyone but Maddison if he is fit and not getting game time because it will 100% be his attitude and not his unquestionable talent.
    It’s pretty obvious to me that apart from those who like a wind up it’s those who want Bowyer out, will look for any excuse to get a dig in to undermine his position. Just get behind him and the team at least until the end of the season when TS will review his plans with any changes as appropriate.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,801
    On Sir Alex, look at two players he had, Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs, both super talented, one however put in a shift every game and probably every training session, and one was more interested in pissing about. One was dumped out when Ferguson had enough, one kept working and had one of the greatest careers in the English leagues. 
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    Bowyer couldn't be clearer about his requirements as well. Maddison pulled off a great clearing header on his debut against Sunderland and Bowyer was full of praise for him. Millar cleared at the back post late on last night and that was probably the thing Bowyer was happiest about. Even Albie getting sent off had Bowyer happy with the effort if not the execution. It's not like Bowyer is giving players ridiculous or conflicting instructions; work hard going both ways and you will play and succeed. I remember Mourinho absolutely losing his shit with Eden Hazard, one of the best players in the world, because in the Champions League Hazard decided he couldn't be arsed to track his man and Atletico scored down his wing. Hazard couldn't operate under Mourinho because he wasn't willing to track back and it caused a problem. When Mourinho left subsequent managers worked around his laziness so that he could play purely attacking football with players behind covering for him. The difference there is that Hazard was a sufficiently brilliant player that he was worth more than the whole team system; Andre Schurrle was another who couldn't be bothered to run back but he wasn't quite good enough to chuck a whole manager away for so he was sacrificed. Bowyer isn't unique in his requirements, nor is his system unique in not functioning properly if everyone isn't doing their job. It happens at every level and ultimately at this level there aren't any players bigger than the plan.
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,125
    Rothko said:
    Not every player is going to work out, salary cap or not, Madison is one, the idea that every signing has to be perfect is for the birds. 
    Sexist pig
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,767
     golfaddick said:
    Good job Bowyer didn't manage years ago otherwise the country would never have seen the likes of George Best, Rodney Marsh or our very own Killer.
    To be fair football has moved on. Is Ronaldo any less a player than the three mentioned above? Of course not but he works his socks off for 90 minutes plus, As does KDB, Salah, Messi, Kane etc etc. That lack of effort is the reason Dele Alli can't get a game. 

    It also seems that the lower you go the more acceptable it should be for a skilful player not to do the hard yards. I don't get that. Making the odd half hearted tackle here and there isn't commitment. His bit of genius will win you games, But his lack of application will also lose you some.

    The irony is that had Maddison improved on the other side of his game he might well be playing in the Premier League now. Despite what he thinks about his own ability though, the fact is that no Championship club wanted him and he's struggling now to get a gig in League 1.

    Some Sunderland fans used to have a scapegoat by the name of George Honeyman -who was, to quote a fan with an alternative view, a local lad, who worked his socks off every time he stepped onto the pitch and celebrated every goal like a proper lads fan. But he wasn't good enough in the eyes of many. So he left to join Hull. And guess what? He has been responsible for the most number of assists in the division (9) and has created 48 chances this season - that's more than two a game.

    Despite his messages in the summer about "all I want to do is play football", I wonder if Maddison is actually that bothered. I hope he proves that he is for his sake let alone ours. For the moment though, give me a Honeyman over a Maddison any day of the week.
  • Sponsored links:



  • Paddy7
    Paddy7 Posts: 1,663
    It's a shame this hasn't worked out; having seen how much damage he could do I really wanted Maddison to be given a chance but from those comments at the beginning of this thread there understandably appears to be no way back now. If that's the case, I'd imagine Bowyer would love to move him on to free up more wages within the cap but we only have a few days now and potential takers will be more wary than ever after his failing at successive clubs. Both Hull and Charlton could have given him a real platform but despite the exciting talent something's obviously not quite right. Thankfully creating and scoring isn't proving as much of a problem now, especially if Millar stays fit.
  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 12,697
    as others have said, I really do not understand why we were pursuing him in the first place?

    after hearing what the Peterborough Chairman and manager had to say I was glad the deal didn't come off but we then went in for him again a few months later and now we have him.

    Bowyer has always said he wants players to be fully committed to the cause, not shirking at any challenge, yet he and his scouts went for a bloke who has a terrible reputation when it comes to team work. it makes no sense to me whatsoever. 
  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    Paddy7 said:
    It's a shame this hasn't worked out; having seen how much damage he could do I really wanted Maddison to be given a chance but from those comments at the beginning of this thread there understandably appears to be no way back now. If that's the case, I'd imagine Bowyer would love to move him on to free up more wages within the cap but we only have a few days now and potential takers will be more wary than ever after his failing at successive clubs. Both Hull and Charlton could have given him a real platform but despite the exciting talent something's obviously not quite right. Thankfully creating and scoring isn't proving as much of a problem now, especially if Millar stays fit.
    I think we were all praying that he would play well for us, but while football is a harsh business, there is always the opportunity for redemption. It is for him to decide what he wants to do. Fit in, or F off. Nobody else can do that for him. If he proves himself on the training ground he will get his chance. Fingers crossed 🤞 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,031
    edited January 2021
    MattF said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    roseandcrown said:
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-manager-lee-bowyer-provides-update-on-marcus-maddisons-fitness/

    Bowyer saying it without saying it
    Bowyer clearly has issues with Maddison, which begs the question, "why bring him in, in the first place?" 
    Because maybe he didn't have issues with him before he signed him?

    That may well be so, but I suspect there was doubts with his reputation.
    Perhaps Bowyer looked at the signing from a purely football reason.  Perhaps Maddison needs to be handled differently, he certainly looks a game changer.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,767
    edited January 2021
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    MattF said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    roseandcrown said:
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-manager-lee-bowyer-provides-update-on-marcus-maddisons-fitness/

    Bowyer saying it without saying it
    Bowyer clearly has issues with Maddison, which begs the question, "why bring him in, in the first place?" 
    Because maybe he didn't have issues with him before he signed him?

    That may well be so, but I suspect there was doubts with his reputation.
    Perhaps Bowyer looked at the signing from a purely football reason.  Perhaps Maddison needs to be handled differently, he certainly looks a game changer.
    It really depends on how being "handled differently" manifests itself. LB is unlikely to compromise on his expectations because that has ramifications on the rest of the side but he should be able to convey it in a different way.

    As many may have gathered from my postings I am "old school" when it comes to Managers with Brian Clough perhaps my idol - he would give a kick up the backside to the guy who scored a hattrick but put his arm round the one that missed three sitters.

    Look at what he did with John Robertson - a maverick who was on the transfer list when Clough joined Forest. As Clough said  "Rarely could there have been a more unlikely looking professional athlete... [He was a] scruffy, unfit, uninterested waste of time...but something told me he was worth persevering with." 

    Clough believed in him and Robertson became one of the greatest wingers of his generation. That belief has to be a two way street though - LB has to still believe that Maddison can adapt his game and Maddison has to want and believe he can too.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    se9addick said:
    bolloxbolder said:
    Fosu, Williams, Oztumer and Maddison. Flair players unable to be managed by Bowyer. 
    McGeady didn’t do well either, although that was more because he was a dreadful player!
    He wasn't a dreadful player.

    Proved he was very decent at top levels in his prime. 
    Just lost his quick feet by 34 - and a bit past it for the high intensity game Bowyer expects from his players.

    He wasn't our 1st choice signing though, was he?
    You can thank ESI and the transfer embargo for that!


  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,476
    I really hope this isn’t the end of the road.....he has shown on a few occasions that there is a very good player in there.....I had very high hopes for him but for one reason or another things haven’t worked out.......so far that is.
    We can speculate all day long as to the reasons why but at this stage it’s safe to say, it’s not entirely clear.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    oohaahmortimer said:
    MrLargo said:
    Is their any other job where you can exceed expectations for 2 and a half years and find your position under pressure after 2 months of under-performance?!



    Try being married to my wife , he’s had it fucking easy !
    Your wife's got to put up with 4 young boys and you.

    God, she must be a saint! :smiley:



  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    Addickted said:
    He wasn't fit when we took him on.

    He's picked up a couple of niggling injuries.

    He's played about two hours of football for us all season.

    Give the bloke a chance ffs.
    Bowyer is clearly frustrated with Maddison's attitude rather than just his fitness.

    Come on, Marcus ...... go and knock on Bowyer's door and have a chat with him.
    He'll forgive you most things if he thinks your attitude is spot on.

    There's a need to prove yourself all over again, otherwise your career is going down the tubes.
    You'll end up delivering pizza's rather just eating them.



Categories

“Marketplace”