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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up.In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years.Can’t defend it.2
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Yeah but we’re still
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
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Accrington, Lincoln and Charlton all over achieving. We are a league one club with championship aspirations. 🤔1
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J BLOCK said:10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up.In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years.Can’t defend it.0
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Who are they ?4
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But we're only outside the play offs on goal differenceBy 1 point & GDBy 2 points & GD8
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oohaahmortimer said:Who are they ?2
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I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom17 -
People can knock the likes Accrington all they want,but football history throws up many comparisons where smallish clubs seemingly over perform.One of the main reasons is Luck with injuries and also having much smaller squads,resisting the need to change the team every time a bad result comes along.If a competent manager (John Coleman) comes along ,gets a group of players all singing on the same hymn sheet,(Lincoln) then good results can follow.Now last year we did not have a big enough squad,this year,I think,too many midfielders ,the temptation always there to keep changing.Liverpool once won the league (42 games) using 14 players.A prime if very old example of getting a group of mediocre players performing is The Ipswich title winning side under Ramsey .They had a 38 year old winger who had one job,in the box to big forwards who did the rest.2
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SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom12 -
J BLOCK said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom3 -
SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
We all need to deal with the here and now. The squad is plenty good enough to do better than 21 points from the last 18 games.12 -
SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
With the players Bowyer has at his disposal we are underachieving.10 -
No one is “deluded” FFS, it’s just a difference of opinion about who should be manager of Charlton Athletic, calm yourselves down.6
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cafcsinger said:J BLOCK said:10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up.In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years.Can’t defend it.
Dont forget in previous years we have been that Accrington or Lincoln in other leagues and scoffed at the ‘big club mentality’ towards little Charlton.18 -
AFKABartram said:cafcsinger said:J BLOCK said:10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up.In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years.Can’t defend it.
Dont forget in previous years we have been that Accrington or Lincoln in other leagues and scoffed at the ‘big club mentality’ towards little Charlton.0 -
Chunes said:J BLOCK said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom2 -
J BLOCK said:Chunes said:J BLOCK said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom1 -
There is no point me posting the breakdown of the Lincoln squad yet again, as the people with their heads in the sand will still insist their line up is Man City-esque in comparison to our bunch of non league journeymen...... it is so painfully and blatantly obvious this group of players should be doing better than it is. FFS Doncaster and Accrington - 2 teams above us are taking each other on with two players (Bogle and Smyth) that were deemed not good enough by us!
What more needs to happen for us to see we are underachieving in epic proportions?!6 - Sponsored links:
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SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
Maybe expectations grew a bit unrealistically given our form when the transfer window closed. But to get worse is no excuse, you cannot tell me that this group of players aren't good enough to compete at the top end of League 1. We may have "thrown the team together in two weeks" but a lot of those players were longer term targets so I don't see it as a major excuse.
If we had started slow and were getting better I could accept that, but I don't see any excuses for our form over the last couple of months.1 -
Chunes said:J BLOCK said:Chunes said:J BLOCK said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom1 -
J BLOCK said:Chunes said:J BLOCK said:Chunes said:J BLOCK said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Relegation
-Loss of most of our first team
-Transfer embargo / wage cap
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
-Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)
If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.
Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom8 -
se9addick said:No one is “deluded” FFS, it’s just a difference of opinion about who should be manager of Charlton Athletic, calm yourselves down.6
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This season has echos of when Chris Powell took over from Parky. I'm pro Bowyer, as I've said before I think some of the big names have let him down, salary cap, injuries have all affected our season. I also think he has made many many mistakes and has made too many knee jerk reactions (half time subs, slagging players off in the press etc) I don't believe he has faith in the squad and the over achieving comment after Gillingham hinted at this. Some will say he put the squad together etc but I also think some players who we all probably thought were nailed on to perform haven't. Watson, Gunter, Matthews, Pearce, Gilbey to name a few haven't performed consistently and when your older "proven" pros aren't doing it things become increasingly difficult.
I'm backing Bowyer for a full summer transfer window and pre season. I'd like to see him get rid off the players that aren't up to it and also bring in some young hungry players who could improve us. Bishop & Baxter have really impressed me at Accrington.7 -
What we're seeing is the best players dont instantly make the best squads
Why havent Belgium, apparently the best team in International Football won a Major Tournament yet?
Hence why when Leeds and West Ham each got relegated from the Premier League the opinion always was: "They're too good to go down"
As I've questioned a few times this season, Bowyer effectively had two / three weeks to put a whole new squad together, all the while under a Salary Cap. Yes it was his choice to sign the likes of Gunter and Watson on high wages but the risk of utilising experience with youth doesnt appear to be working on this occasion.
People may not like it but on that basis, yes we are over achieving, a squad put together in such short notice against squads that have been together a lot longer and we probably are punching above our weight because they've got the benefit of having familiarity of playing together. I find the notion of the best team with the best budget, especially at this level extremely prehistoric - Even the likes of Darren Pratley have said in the last week how its been difficult for new signings to gel because the squad havent been able to go for a meal and get to know each other properly, what happens off the pitch appears to be so massively ignored by fans to an extent.
Wasnt it David Wagner and Huddersfield who went to some extremely remote part of Norway or Sweden where they basically fended for themselves the whole time, it created a squad of players that were close, could trust each other and won promotion to the Premier League
Its why I'm sticking to my guns that Bowyer should be given one last build with a proper pre-season where there is time for the players to work on things without the consequences of competitive fixtures, combined with being to head off somewhere, even if its the Belfrey again so whatever new team has the opportunity to get to know each other10 -
SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
Except Bowyer and Gallen had the summer to negotiate it was just 2 weeks to complete, We lost out on a couple of deals as the players moved elsewhere so we know we were negotiating/ building a plan for a lot more than 2 weeks.
We still did a lot of business snapping up half decent players. Most decent deals are done towards the back end of the window.
We signed:
Gunter - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
Matthews - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
Inniss - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 2 in 5 games with him in the side.
Famewo - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 3 in 8 games with him in the side.
Maatsen - He's quick, is decent at tackling, but his shooting and crossing are far too predictable.
Levitt - Well... We were sold a dud there.
Watson - Should be excelling at this level
Gilbey - Shows flashes of class, He has and can excel at this level
Shinnie - Looks decent, has played well, defensively not great but offers more good than bad
Maddison - Literally bossed this league, even at the start of last season. Bowyer & Gallen took a risk and it didn't pay off (despite allegedly chasing him for 2 transfer windows)
Smyth - Quickish, trickyish, okayish. Should probably have done better than he did.
Bogle - Tried, but mismanaged. Was never going to be our saviour.
Washington - 7 goals and 2 assists so far, far from the worst forward we have had. Find it strange how negative people are about him as he's a work horse and scores (probably has outscored what people thought he'd get already)
There's a lot of class in there, do you think they suddenly all became average league one players overnight? Or do you think the Manager and his training and tactics may play a part?
We got rid of the 4 in January and replaced them with:
Levitt - Smith (doesn't get in the side)
Smyth - Jaiyesimi (Needs to play to gel, is a good impact sub)
Maddison - Millar (Great player)
Bogle - Stockley (Very good player)
Schwartz (Undecided - Needs more game time to gel/learn to play Bowyer's style)
We've certainly added quality there. I don't think anyone is saying they expected us to get autos after the January - Sept we had, but making the playoffs (Not even saying the final) should have been easily achievable with those players and the right manager.
A reminder we have played with:
18 different defence set ups,
25 different midfield set ups,
22 different forward lines
across 6 different formations.
We need a sustained period of playing a single formation and first 11. Only changing when better players become available (Inniss & Famewo) OR players are showing fatigue OR get injured. Rotating for the sake of it just messes with the playing chemistry or 'gelling'.
Even in our 8 game unbeaten run, we tinkered each game, and unsurprisingly the defence had the fewest changes.
I think we can still make the playoffs, even under Bowyer, but he needs to have a settled side to do so.6 -
ForeverAddickted said:What we're seeing is the best players dont instantly make the best squads
Why havent Belgium, apparently the best team in International Football won a Major Tournament yet?
Hence why when Leeds and West Ham each got relegated from the Premier League the opinion always was: "They're too good to go down"
As I've questioned a few times this season, Bowyer effectively had two / three weeks to put a whole new squad together, all the while under a Salary Cap. Yes it was his choice to sign the likes of Gunter and Watson on high wages but the risk of utilising experience with youth doesnt appear to be working on this occasion.
People may not like it but on that basis, yes we are over achieving, a squad put together in such short notice against squads that have been together a lot longer and we probably are punching above our weight because they've got the benefit of having familiarity of playing together. I find the notion of the best team with the best budget, especially at this level extremely prehistoric - Even the likes of Darren Pratley have said in the last week how its been difficult for new signings to gel because the squad havent been able to go for a meal and get to know each other properly, what happens off the pitch appears to be so massively ignored by fans to an extent.
Wasnt it David Wagner and Huddersfield who went to some extremely remote part of Norway or Sweden where they basically fended for themselves the whole time, it created a squad of players that were close, could trust each other and won promotion to the Premier League
Its why I'm sticking to my guns that Bowyer should be given one last build with a proper pre-season where there is time for the players to work on things without the consequences of competitive fixtures, combined with being to head off somewhere, even if its the Belfrey again so whatever new team has the opportunity to get to know each other
Plus Bowyer has constantly tinkered with the team and formation, so it's difficult to build up any sort of consistency. I wasn't expecting us to run away with the league but sorry I don't accept my are overachieving at all.5 -
Dazzler21 said:SamE7 said:I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.
-Team thrown together in 2 weeks
Except Bowyer and Gallen had the summer to negotiate it was just 2 weeks to complete, We lost out on a couple of deals as the players moved elsewhere so we know we were negotiating/ building a plan for a lot more than 2 weeks.
We still did a lot of business snapping up half decent players. Most decent deals are done towards the back end of the window.
We signed:
Gunter - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
Matthews - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
Inniss - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 2 in 5 games with him in the side.
Famewo - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 3 in 8 games with him in the side.
Maatsen - He's quick, is decent at tackling, but his shooting and crossing are far too predictable.
Levitt - Well... We were sold a dud there.
Watson - Should be excelling at this level
Gilbey - Shows flashes of class, He has and can excel at this level
Shinnie - Looks decent, has played well, defensively not great but offers more good than bad
Maddison - Literally bossed this league, even at the start of last season. Bowyer & Gallen took a risk and it didn't pay off (despite allegedly chasing him for 2 transfer windows)
Smyth - Quickish, trickyish, okayish. Should probably have done better than he did.
Bogle - Tried, but mismanaged. Was never going to be our saviour.
Washington - 7 goals and 2 assists so far, far from the worst forward we have had. Find it strange how negative people are about him as he's a work horse and scores (probably has outscored what people thought he'd get already)
There's a lot of class in there, do you think they suddenly all became average league one players overnight? Or do you think the Manager and his training and tactics may play a part?
We got rid of the 4 in January and replaced them with:
Levitt - Smith
Smyth - Jaiyesimi
Maddison - Millar
Bogle - Stockley
Schwartz
We've certainly added quality there. I don't think anyone is saying they expected us to get autos after the January - Sept we had, but making the playoffs (Not even saying the final) should have been easily achievable with those players and the right manager.
A reminder we have played with:
18 different defence set ups,
25 different midfield set ups,
22 different forward lines
across 6 different formations.
We need a sustained period of playing a single formation and first 11. Only changing when better players become available (Inniss & Famewo) OR players are showing fatigue OR get injured. Rotating for the sake of it just messes with the playing chemistry or 'gelling'.
Even in our 8 game unbeaten run, we tinkered each game, and unsurprisingly the defence had the fewest changes.
I think we can still make the playoffs, even under Bowyer, but he needs to have a settled side to do so.
Out of those signings who has performed ?0 -
ForeverAddickted said:What we're seeing is the best players dont instantly make the best squads
Why havent Belgium, apparently the best team in International Football won a Major Tournament yet?
Hence why when Leeds and West Ham each got relegated from the Premier League the opinion always was: "They're too good to go down"
As I've questioned a few times this season, Bowyer effectively had two / three weeks to put a whole new squad together, all the while under a Salary Cap. Yes it was his choice to sign the likes of Gunter and Watson on high wages but the risk of utilising experience with youth doesnt appear to be working on this occasion.
People may not like it but on that basis, yes we are over achieving, a squad put together in such short notice against squads that have been together a lot longer and we probably are punching above our weight because they've got the benefit of having familiarity of playing together. I find the notion of the best team with the best budget, especially at this level extremely prehistoric - Even the likes of Darren Pratley have said in the last week how its been difficult for new signings to gel because the squad havent been able to go for a meal and get to know each other properly, what happens off the pitch appears to be so massively ignored by fans to an extent.
Wasnt it David Wagner and Huddersfield who went to some extremely remote part of Norway or Sweden where they basically fended for themselves the whole time, it created a squad of players that were close, could trust each other and won promotion to the Premier League
Its why I'm sticking to my guns that Bowyer should be given one last build with a proper pre-season where there is time for the players to work on things without the consequences of competitive fixtures, combined with being to head off somewhere, even if its the Belfrey again so whatever new team has the opportunity to get to know each other
I still think we can make the play offs, but we need to make as few changes as possible. I actually have no issue with our last two set ups. We kept the same squad, we pressed Rochdale better, but we didn't look entirely like strangers.
That'll improve each game they play together.
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