Post-match Thread: Charlton v Blackpool | Sat 27 Feb 2021

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

bazjonster said:

lonman said:

I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.

Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!

He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.

He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.

The problem is football fans are so fickle. Rewind approx 1 year ago and people were shouting the house down for Southall to give Bowyer a contract. Unfortunately most people these days seek instant gratification and if things don't go as expected the answer is to get rid of this guy and bring someone else in. This is not unique to football. I like to think we are a fair club and I think Bowyer deserves the opportunity to get in some players without the restrictions placed on him in the last window. It's not about 'blind loyalty' it's about giving someone a chance to solve the issues that are in front of him. Has he earned the chance to be given some time to sort it out ? I for one think he has. 

That is a fair point but one which fails to address the Jekyl and Hyde transformation in Bowyer since he signed that contract.

Well it's different now. We have an owner who talks a good game and engages with fans etc. The real fundamentals IMO are that we haven't signed any significantly better players than we probably would of done under Roland. However, the expectation level (just check twitter and this forum) has ticked up to an unrealistic level so What you're seeing is Bowyer under a lot of pressure. Is Bowyer perfect ? NO, Has Bowyer made mistakes ? OF COURSE. However, hand on heart I believe he does care about CAFC and the biggest mistake he's made was not managing the expectation level amongst us fans and he's now paying the price for it. I really don't believe Bowyer is hanging around for a payoff as posted by someone earlier. I do believe he believes he can turn it around. However, I think some people on this forum need to be more realistic about how good this squad is and where they will take us.  

He is saying his players don't care. That is when you pack it it. Unless something is keeping you from doing so. My money is on the pay off he is due. 

Sadly i think you are right, he did seem a lost soul in that match interview

lonman said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

Charltonparklane said:

lonman said:

I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.

From league 2?

We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football  I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got. 

His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.

Well he got 1 goal last year at Championship level. This guy is not Karlan Grant or Lyle Taylor. Just watch him when he receives the ball. I mean he got a goal was it last Saturday and the ball came to his feet and it took him a few seconds to register that he had the damn thing. I'm just saying that a lot of players are bang average, not scapegoating Aneke just using him as an example. I think we need to clear the decks of all this average dross and get in some quality. Lets see what Thomas is all about in the summer. TBH if he decides he doesn't want to spend to build a decent squad rather than this shower we currently have on our books then we need to adjust expectation levels. Personally I'm happy we still have a club and yes it's rough at the moment but given time and the right quality of player I think Bowyer will come through.

He was injured for most of last season.

Oggy Red said:

I've got 1.1k comments unread on the 'Has Bowyer Lost It?" thread.

How many will there be tomorrow? I can't keep up.

Just skip to the last page, as there's a good chance that the same old arguments will be rehashed all over again tomorrow anyway.

aliwibble said:

lonman said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

Charltonparklane said:

lonman said:

I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.

From league 2?

We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football  I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got. 

His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.

Well he got 1 goal last year at Championship level. This guy is not Karlan Grant or Lyle Taylor. Just watch him when he receives the ball. I mean he got a goal was it last Saturday and the ball came to his feet and it took him a few seconds to register that he had the damn thing. I'm just saying that a lot of players are bang average, not scapegoating Aneke just using him as an example. I think we need to clear the decks of all this average dross and get in some quality. Lets see what Thomas is all about in the summer. TBH if he decides he doesn't want to spend to build a decent squad rather than this shower we currently have on our books then we need to adjust expectation levels. Personally I'm happy we still have a club and yes it's rough at the moment but given time and the right quality of player I think Bowyer will come through.

He was injured for most of last season.

No first touch?

WUM

aliwibble said:

lonman said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

Charltonparklane said:

lonman said:

I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.

From league 2?

We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football  I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got. 

His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.

Well he got 1 goal last year at Championship level. This guy is not Karlan Grant or Lyle Taylor. Just watch him when he receives the ball. I mean he got a goal was it last Saturday and the ball came to his feet and it took him a few seconds to register that he had the damn thing. I'm just saying that a lot of players are bang average, not scapegoating Aneke just using him as an example. I think we need to clear the decks of all this average dross and get in some quality. Lets see what Thomas is all about in the summer. TBH if he decides he doesn't want to spend to build a decent squad rather than this shower we currently have on our books then we need to adjust expectation levels. Personally I'm happy we still have a club and yes it's rough at the moment but given time and the right quality of player I think Bowyer will come through.

He was injured for most of last season.

So you're suggesting he's a Championship Level Striker ?

lonman said:

aliwibble said:

lonman said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

lonman said:

Charltonparklane said:

lonman said:

I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.

From league 2?

We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football  I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got. 

His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.

Well he got 1 goal last year at Championship level. This guy is not Karlan Grant or Lyle Taylor. Just watch him when he receives the ball. I mean he got a goal was it last Saturday and the ball came to his feet and it took him a few seconds to register that he had the damn thing. I'm just saying that a lot of players are bang average, not scapegoating Aneke just using him as an example. I think we need to clear the decks of all this average dross and get in some quality. Lets see what Thomas is all about in the summer. TBH if he decides he doesn't want to spend to build a decent squad rather than this shower we currently have on our books then we need to adjust expectation levels. Personally I'm happy we still have a club and yes it's rough at the moment but given time and the right quality of player I think Bowyer will come through.

He was injured for most of last season.

So you're suggesting he's a Championship Level Striker ?

We are not in the Championship. Scapegoating one of our best players is ridiculous. The blame doesn't lie with Aneke.

Players are letting Bowyer and the fans down in a number of ways. No doubt about that. It’s been like it all season - they just give up unless things are going completely smoothly. No real fight or determination and a worrying trend towards I’ll discipline has snuck in recently. They must bear responsibility for their part on that and their part is significant. They’re adults and professionals and should be doing better. Full stop.

Speaking as a manger of a team of staff myself, there’s only so much you can do to train and equip your team - some parts of their job and performance come down to their personal attitude and application. 

CafcWest said:

Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed?  He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline.  Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...

Been saying this for a while. Something is definitely amiss behind the scenes,  Bowyers uncharacteristic public outbursts for me are borne out of frustration. Sadly, I think Bowyer needs to be let go by mutual consent....I'm truly gutted that I'm saying this.

Exiled_Addick said:

Players are letting Bowyer and the fans down in a number of ways. No doubt about that. It’s been like it all season - they just give up unless things are going completely smoothly. No real fight or determination and a worrying trend towards I’ll discipline has snuck in recently. They must bear responsibility for their part on that and their part is significant. They’re adults and professionals and should be doing better. Full stop.

Speaking as a manger of a team of staff myself, there’s only so much you can do to train and equip your team - some parts of their job and performance come down to their personal attitude and application. 

The question is, has the manager created an environment in which good people (in CAFC’s case players) can thrive. I can’t speak for what is happening at Sparrows Lane between matches, but I don’t think Bowyer is helping the team on match days. The tactics and team selection are increasingly erratic and a manager does carry some responsibility for motivating his team and that motivation is clearly missing too. There is also the question of why were so many players lacking in professional pride and determination signed in the first place. There were external factors that made life hard, but also Bowyer’s part in that must be significant.

I don’t know enough about what is going on behind closed doors to say what the solution is. Changing the manager could fix everything, some things or nothing. None of us can be sure which. Sandgaard and Roddy must make that call. 

I still hope Bowyer turns it around, he’s a Charlton man and he very clearly cares about the club. For me success always feels that little bit more special when you have someone like that in charge. I’m increasingly losing faith he will turn it around though. I don’t have much faith either that the players will suddenly become world beaters just by changing manager but I also can’t criticize lack of stability being a cause of our problems and keep calling for high churn in players. At some point you have to work with what you’ve got and make it better. 

No easy answers here, in my opinion. 

It does seem strange why Charlton apparently has the least motivated players in L1 and the ones that care the least - obviously this has nothing to do with the manager. Just a bit of bad luck I imagine.

Bowyer in or out,the debate could go on all night,but tell me this,what can he do about certain things that happen on the pitch.
1)Stockley scores a good goal,ruled out
2)We have seen recently teams getting free shots from 20 yards out and scoring,they must have spoken all week about preventing this happening and look what happens,for 2nd goal.
3)Pratley already booked,team captain,reacts like a spoiled brat when getting the treatment that he love to dish out himself.
4)Referee fooled,although only 5 yards away by a blatant dive.
5)Aneke gets a red for doing what every striker does,jump with his arms out,no intent to injure the man at all.

Are there players not trying,if so they should be ashamed of themselves,some of these guys are at the end of their career and have been given a chance to carry on playing .
We are missing energy in midfield,the ability to carry the ball 20-30 yards into our opponents half,to do this you need players in their early to mid 20s,not early to mid 30s,we had at the start of the 2nd half 2 x 35 year old and 1x 31 year old,never going to frighten anyone.
If we can just get another 10 points to stave of disaster I would start playing the under 23s,I bet they would care.

MuttleyCAFC said:

Look, he hasn't lost the dressing room.  Incredible how people can even think it!

I think they all have. They keep going into the stand.

ateamofcorygibbs said:

Lads, I'm starting to think we might not be going on a run

Sadly, we are very much in a run.  A run of the worst sort.

MuttleyCAFC said:

Exiled_Addick said:

Players are letting Bowyer and the fans down in a number of ways. No doubt about that. It’s been like it all season - they just give up unless things are going completely smoothly. No real fight or determination and a worrying trend towards I’ll discipline has snuck in recently. They must bear responsibility for their part on that and their part is significant. They’re adults and professionals and should be doing better. Full stop.

Speaking as a manger of a team of staff myself, there’s only so much you can do to train and equip your team - some parts of their job and performance come down to their personal attitude and application. 

The question is, has the manager created an environment in which good people (in CAFC’s case players) can thrive. I can’t speak for what is happening at Sparrows Lane between matches, but I don’t think Bowyer is helping the team on match days. The tactics and team selection are increasingly erratic and a manager does carry some responsibility for motivating his team and that motivation is clearly missing too. There is also the question of why were so many players lacking in professional pride and determination signed in the first place. There were external factors that made life hard, but also Bowyer’s part in that must be significant.

I don’t know enough about what is going on behind closed doors to say what the solution is. Changing the manager could fix everything, some things or nothing. None of us can be sure which. Sandgaard and Roddy must make that call. 

I still hope Bowyer turns it around, he’s a Charlton man and he very clearly cares about the club. For me success always feels that little bit more special when you have someone like that in charge. I’m increasingly losing faith he will turn it around though. I don’t have much faith either that the players will suddenly become world beaters just by changing manager but I also can’t criticize lack of stability being a cause of our problems and keep calling for high churn in players. At some point you have to work with what you’ve got and make it better. 

No easy answers here, in my opinion. 

Of course the required bar is quite a bit lower than beating the World. We are talking about being a top 6 League One side here!

Well, 1) it’s an expression, not a literal statement but 2) they will need to be world beaters to make the top 6 from here this season. 

The players are a disgrace to themselves and their profession. In 57 years of supporting  the club I have never seen such an absolute disinterested shower of shit.The loan players must be desperate to get back to their clubs and play with true professionals. I will keep watching as  Thomas deserves our support. If I went to work with the half hearted attitude this crap has I’d be sacked. They are stealing a living and shouldn’t be paid. I would rather see the academy players on the pitch than give these players any more space to show their disinterest .