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Post-match Thread: AFC Wimbledon v Charlton Athletic | Sat 20 March 2021
Comments
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It’s such an important position. All good teams have either enough firepower to outscore the opposition or concede very few goals. A clean sheet and you have at least a point. We are leaking far too many goals - soft ones as well. We’ve got 2 experienced players and 2 that are learning their trade. What has Famewo learned from Pearce? Nothing.995632 said:
Don't understand why we do not have a specialist defensive coach and why JJ is in charge of them. The lack of consistent performance by the defence is the reason I don't think Jackson was/is currently ready for management.ricky_otto said:
Think we need to remember that Adkins has had 2 training sessions with the team. Defensively we haven’t been very good for about 14 / 15 months now. I’m not suggesting it’s all down to Jackson - you can take a horse to water but you can’t make them drink it...In other words if the defenders don’t listen or don’t do the job on the pitch it’s down to them. We have given more shockers away this season than any other season I can remember. In an ideal world Jackson would look after the midfield - we need goals from that area and Jackson is the ideal person to work on that part of the team. Defensively we need somebody in to sort. The worrying thing for me is that Pearce and Gunter have over 1000 games under their belts and they look like amateurs.ElliotCAFC said:
He’s the manager and is in charge of the team and tactics.RonnieMoore said:
Don’t think Adkins had much to do with anything yesterday ..ElliotCAFC said:Not sure why people are so quick to blame Jackson for the formation switch, I must have missed the announcement where he was made manager?It was Adkins’ decision to switch to diamond, he said so in the post-match interview. It apparently worked, stopping their holding midfielder get time on the ball. Even if it was someone else’s idea, he’s paid to make the final decision - a man of his experience should know better than to tinker with 5 different formations during a game. I hope it was him just getting a feel for what the players are capable of in a real match environment.I like Adkins but let’s not throw Jackson under the bus because we’re desperate for Adkins to be a success.
What I’m saying is that it’s a combined effort that he’s in charge of. I’m cautious of fans starting the blame game where certain members of staff are at fault when we lose/draw but there’s no mention of them when we win.We have conceded 110 league goals in the last 83 league games. Straight away we need to score 2 or 3 to win.2 -
Don’t get me wrong, I’m in no way blaming Adkins. I completely agree we need to get more coaches in, it’s ridiculous that a club of our size has just Jackson, Grant Basey and Andy Marshall coaching he team. We certainly need some specialists in.ricky_otto said:
Think we need to remember that Adkins has had 2 training sessions with the team. Defensively we haven’t been very good for about 14 / 15 months now. I’m not suggesting it’s all down to Jackson - you can take a horse to water but you can’t make them drink it...In other words if the defenders don’t listen or don’t do the job on the pitch it’s down to them. We have given more shockers away this season than any other season I can remember. In an ideal world Jackson would look after the midfield - we need goals from that area and Jackson is the ideal person to work on that part of the team. Defensively we need somebody in to sort. The worrying thing for me is that Pearce and Gunter have over 1000 games under their belts and they look like amateurs.ElliotCAFC said:
He’s the manager and is in charge of the team and tactics.RonnieMoore said:
Don’t think Adkins had much to do with anything yesterday ..ElliotCAFC said:Not sure why people are so quick to blame Jackson for the formation switch, I must have missed the announcement where he was made manager?It was Adkins’ decision to switch to diamond, he said so in the post-match interview. It apparently worked, stopping their holding midfielder get time on the ball. Even if it was someone else’s idea, he’s paid to make the final decision - a man of his experience should know better than to tinker with 5 different formations during a game. I hope it was him just getting a feel for what the players are capable of in a real match environment.I like Adkins but let’s not throw Jackson under the bus because we’re desperate for Adkins to be a success.
What I’m saying is that it’s a combined effort that he’s in charge of. I’m cautious of fans starting the blame game where certain members of staff are at fault when we lose/draw but there’s no mention of them when we win.The players also have to take a lot of responsibility. It doesn’t matter who you’ve got in the coaching staff when your defenders are making such basic errors. Like I said yesterday, I can’t wait for the summer to start again and build properly.0 -
Two key words there. Every goal conceded in any game is avoidable. But goals conceded are always going to happen. We simply just cant afford to gift goals - the teams we play don’t even have to work that hard to get on the scoresheet. The defending is our Achilles heal.ElliotCAFC said:
Don’t get me wrong, I’m in no way blaming Adkins. I completely agree we need to get more coaches in, it’s ridiculous that a club of our size has just Jackson, Grant Basey and Andy Marshall coaching he team. We certainly need some specialists in.ricky_otto said:
Think we need to remember that Adkins has had 2 training sessions with the team. Defensively we haven’t been very good for about 14 / 15 months now. I’m not suggesting it’s all down to Jackson - you can take a horse to water but you can’t make them drink it...In other words if the defenders don’t listen or don’t do the job on the pitch it’s down to them. We have given more shockers away this season than any other season I can remember. In an ideal world Jackson would look after the midfield - we need goals from that area and Jackson is the ideal person to work on that part of the team. Defensively we need somebody in to sort. The worrying thing for me is that Pearce and Gunter have over 1000 games under their belts and they look like amateurs.ElliotCAFC said:
He’s the manager and is in charge of the team and tactics.RonnieMoore said:
Don’t think Adkins had much to do with anything yesterday ..ElliotCAFC said:Not sure why people are so quick to blame Jackson for the formation switch, I must have missed the announcement where he was made manager?It was Adkins’ decision to switch to diamond, he said so in the post-match interview. It apparently worked, stopping their holding midfielder get time on the ball. Even if it was someone else’s idea, he’s paid to make the final decision - a man of his experience should know better than to tinker with 5 different formations during a game. I hope it was him just getting a feel for what the players are capable of in a real match environment.I like Adkins but let’s not throw Jackson under the bus because we’re desperate for Adkins to be a success.
What I’m saying is that it’s a combined effort that he’s in charge of. I’m cautious of fans starting the blame game where certain members of staff are at fault when we lose/draw but there’s no mention of them when we win.The players also have to take a lot of responsibility. It doesn’t matter who you’ve got in the coaching staff when your defenders are making such basic errors. Like I said yesterday, I can’t wait for the summer to start again and build properly.0 -
I think he would excel at dodgeball.Covered End said:
Schwartz hasn't touched the ball since around early February.JoshAddick said:Did Schwartz touch the ball?
It is quite a feat.2 -
Nail on head for me, EA.Exiled_Addick said:
I don’t think many of our players have initiative. We’ve seen it all season, far too many poor decisions all over the pitch, with and without the ball, as well as an inability to adapt in game to changing tactics etc. We either start well with plan A and fade as the opposition counteracts it, or plan A doesn’t work and we flounder until a halftime change improves us but usually that is short lived as the opposition adjusts again. I just don’t think we have many tactically savvy players. They either can’t or haven’t been allowed to think for themselves during the match. We definitely lack football intelligence as a team.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:The goalkeeper should be able to use his initiative when passing out from the back and sometimes choose the better option.
It's possible that thinking for themselves has somehow been coached out of them, well some, at least. Or indeed that making mistakes & being called out publicly for them has made them question the best way to use the ball when they have possession.
As a result, poor decisions & hesitation on the ball have cost us points once again.
I'm 100% that NA has a totally different style of dealing with outright errors that cost us points but yesterday was too early for them to change their thought processes.
Just my opinion of course, with nothing tangible to back it up.
Whatever the reasons, I was very disappointed with our 2nd half performance once again.
Although I am all too well aware that one swallow doesn't make a summer, the Tuesday evening performance was a joy to watch, once we managed to come to terms with the 2 early goals conceded. It looked as if the burden the lads had seemingly been carrying on their shoulders was effectively lifted & it was clear they played as a team and especially for the caretaker manager on the night.
For once, the international break is a welcome one with time for plans to be made & executed on the training pitch.
Oh, and lots of videos for NA to catch up with....
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We were lucky yesterday in that other results went our way again. When you think about how many points we have thrown away to still be in with a shout at the playoffs is ridiculous.
Whatever happens in terms of league finish it is going to be an interesting Summer when you look at the amount of players that need to be replaced due to contracts running out.0 -
So, Mumford and Sons (I bet that ones never been done before).Scoham said:
It’s Wayne Mumford at the back not Ged Roddyoohaahmortimer said:
It’s a Reading best buddies sandwichScoham said:Adkins - Sandgaard - Groome - Sandgaard’s evil twin?0 -
Well it's an improvement on Bowyer's thoughts.Scoham said:On playing out from the back I like how Adkins appears to see it - do it when you can but accept there at times when you can’t.
Important to find the balance between football that’s good to watch and playing in a way that gets results.
As I've said a few times, I questioned this tactic a couple of years ago at a supporter's meeting.
Basically I said to Bowyer, yes do it, but only when appropriate, not every time if you're closed down and putting yourself in danger (same as Adkins).
Bowyer wouldn't have it though, he was adamant to pass it out every time regardless.
If Amos has been told to do this for a long time, it's little surprise that he does it.3 -
Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!3 -
The fourth one down, Pearce and Oshi going for the same ball, why has Gunter got his arm in the air claiming offside and not just chasing back as fast as his old legs can carry him?oohaahmortimer said:0 -
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I'm watching from the U.S., it's 1-1 over here.Redmidland said:Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!0 -
Don’t want to ruin it for you, but it is 4-1 to Leicester here in Blighty.limeygent said:
I'm watching from the U.S., it's 1-1 over here.Redmidland said:Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!5 -
When I posted City were ahead, Manure equalised a little later on. It's HT now at 1-1.limeygent said:
I'm watching from the U.S., it's 1-1 over here.Redmidland said:Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!0 -
I feel a bit better about Famewo’s back pass having just watched Fred’s.30k a week v. 3k a week.3
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I still don't get why they do it, the rule change has made it worse in my opinion. However when being pressed high why fucking do it?I feel a bit better about Famewo’s back pass having just watched Fred’s.30k a week v. 3k a week.I feel a bit better about Famewo’s back pass having just watched Fred’s.30k a week v. 3k a week.1 -
You're 4 hours ahead of us, guess that's why. Boring game, by the way.ricky_otto said:
Don’t want to ruin it for you, but it is 4-1 to Leicester here in Blighty.limeygent said:
I'm watching from the U.S., it's 1-1 over here.Redmidland said:Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!2 -
Isn't that what 4-3-3 is?cafc_harry said:Perfect time for 2 weeks off as it might give Adkins a chance to learn the players names. Initial change of system after the second goal was baffling and it only got worse from there. In the second half he might as well have been picking names out of a hat for the subs, how on Earth do you end up with 3 outright CMs and 3 outright strikers on the pitch with 0 width? Baffling.0 -
Technically, but a 433 usually an attacking winger either side of the striker. It’s what we had after 5 minutes cos of Washington’s injury.Vincenzo said:
Isn't that what 4-3-3 is?cafc_harry said:Perfect time for 2 weeks off as it might give Adkins a chance to learn the players names. Initial change of system after the second goal was baffling and it only got worse from there. In the second half he might as well have been picking names out of a hat for the subs, how on Earth do you end up with 3 outright CMs and 3 outright strikers on the pitch with 0 width? Baffling.0 -
As a coach right now the trend is very much to play out from the back at all costs. The reason being is so many teams are pressing higher up the pitch to win the ball higher up the pitch when the defensive shape isn't set "setting traps"Covered End said:
Well it's an improvement on Bowyer's thoughts.Scoham said:On playing out from the back I like how Adkins appears to see it - do it when you can but accept there at times when you can’t.
Important to find the balance between football that’s good to watch and playing in a way that gets results.
As I've said a few times, I questioned this tactic a couple of years ago at a supporter's meeting.
Basically I said to Bowyer, yes do it, but only when appropriate, not every time if you're closed down and putting yourself in danger (same as Adkins).
Bowyer wouldn't have it though, he was adamant to pass it out every time regardless.
If Amos has been told to do this for a long time, it's little surprise that he does it.
The benefit is that IF you can play through the press then you are into their half with the oppo all the wrong side. It's high risk but massively beneficial IF you can pull this off and it's been made worse / more common with the goal kick / players in the box rule
My kids are also made to do the same by me, we have to suffer through the mistakes with fake grins as it really is the only way to get more comfortable on the ball and playing under pressure.
The tactic is sound and far better offensively than just lumping the ball where it come straight back. The massive problem for us is that none of our players are good enough to do it. Pearce hates the football, Maatsen can't control a football and Gunter just lumps it up the wing where normally he doesn't have a winger playing there. One reason a whole back 5 is needed.0 -
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We can still make the play offs if we go back to a 5-3-2 formation especially as were playing most of the top teams around us with a back five of matthews : innis: famewo : Pearce : purrington. then Watson protecting the back three leaving plenty of room for matthews and purrington to get up and down the wings delivering plenty of crosses in to the box for stockley and Aneke to attack assisted by the two most skilful players at the club jf-c and
shinnie. We shouldn’t give many goals away with that formation as we are always going to score goals as long as we get decent deliveries in to the box. Ps if Washington’s fit I’d play him alongside Aneke dropping stockley to the bench .I’d stay with Amos in goal, I know he makes silly mistakes sometimes but his nerves must be shot playing behind that defence at times.ps if NA & JJ need any help in the dugout on good friday I’m available lol😂1 -
What rule change obliges players to be faffing around with it?Redmidland said:
I still don't get why they do it, the rule change has made it worse in my opinion. However when being pressed high why fucking do it?I feel a bit better about Famewo’s back pass having just watched Fred’s.30k a week v. 3k a week.I feel a bit better about Famewo’s back pass having just watched Fred’s.30k a week v. 3k a week.0 -
Adkins fav system is 4231 which we saw after Washington went off and have to say thought we looked very good ...cafcfan1990 said:
Technically, but a 433 usually an attacking winger either side of the striker. It’s what we had after 5 minutes cos of Washington’s injury.Vincenzo said:
Isn't that what 4-3-3 is?cafc_harry said:Perfect time for 2 weeks off as it might give Adkins a chance to learn the players names. Initial change of system after the second goal was baffling and it only got worse from there. In the second half he might as well have been picking names out of a hat for the subs, how on Earth do you end up with 3 outright CMs and 3 outright strikers on the pitch with 0 width? Baffling.1 -
Exactly, the likes of Sterling or Rashford play as the wide strikers in a 433 formation, you need pace and movement in that position to attack from wide positions as well as in the boxcafcfan1990 said:
Technically, but a 433 usually an attacking winger either side of the striker. It’s what we had after 5 minutes cos of Washington’s injury.Vincenzo said:
Isn't that what 4-3-3 is?cafc_harry said:Perfect time for 2 weeks off as it might give Adkins a chance to learn the players names. Initial change of system after the second goal was baffling and it only got worse from there. In the second half he might as well have been picking names out of a hat for the subs, how on Earth do you end up with 3 outright CMs and 3 outright strikers on the pitch with 0 width? Baffling.
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I believe the theory is that if you can pass around the press then you can quickly break out of defence with the ball under you control and a good portion of the opposition stranded up field, but it’s a high risk strategy.Redmidland said:Amos and Akin for us yesterday, today it's Henderson and Fred for Man United! Why oh why try and play it out from the back when the opposition are pressing high?
Mind you I'm glad Manure are losing!!
It’s a particularly risky strategy if, like us, you have a back 4 most of whom just look like just they want to get rid of the ball as soon as they get it.
Personally, much as I want to see us playing silky flowing passing football, right now, with Stockley and Aneke in the squad, I think we’d be better focussing on pushing up and hitting it long and fighting for the second balls and the build our attacks from there. We have the players to do that.1 -
I don't think we have the players for a 4231. We'd need at least two wide players (one to replace Millar and a spare) and a more attacking CM/CAM before we can consider that. Morgan and Shinnie could perhaps play that role so be interesting to see if we adopt it before the summer.RonnieMoore said:
Adkins fav system is 4231 which we saw after Washington went off and have to say thought we looked very good ...cafcfan1990 said:
Technically, but a 433 usually an attacking winger either side of the striker. It’s what we had after 5 minutes cos of Washington’s injury.Vincenzo said:
Isn't that what 4-3-3 is?cafc_harry said:Perfect time for 2 weeks off as it might give Adkins a chance to learn the players names. Initial change of system after the second goal was baffling and it only got worse from there. In the second half he might as well have been picking names out of a hat for the subs, how on Earth do you end up with 3 outright CMs and 3 outright strikers on the pitch with 0 width? Baffling.0 -
It was either going to be 300 or 30, for symmetry’s sake.Dazzler21 said:But 120k is mental. That’s like 10k for each time he gave the ball away.0 -
Me too mate. I get that Bowyer said he leaves everything on the pitch and if he had a 11 Darren Pratley’s etc, but I think he epitomises the fact we’ve been going backward from a footballing perspective for about a year now.Croydon said:
This. I'm sick and tired of watching him. Pratley doesn't offer anything to us anymore. He's been useful the past couple of seasons, but his leadership is a joke (red cards) for a senior pro, and his total lack of ability on the ball completely fucks our midfield's attacking capability.cabbles said:Still replaying that pass forward by Pratley to Shinnie that went behind of, and to the wrong side of him in the final minutes. Vintage stuff
If ever a man was only comfortable playing the a ball sideways or backwards, it’s him.He was useful in parts when he wasn’t starting every week, but he seems to have become a mainstay under Bowyer and it represented everything that is wrong with our game imo. It’s so tiresome to see that obvious way he tries to get bought down for fouls by shielding the ball. It’s great when we’re a goal up with 2 mins to play, but it’s clear he can’t go forward because now he does it whenever some gets near him, whether it be in the 1st or 90th minute.I don’t really buy into this thing about his leadership qualities either. He screamed ‘that was f****** s***’ when we conceded a goal at home recently. I think people confuse leadership with being Bowyer’s pet. I honestly dread to think what would’ve happened had Bowyer stayed and his contract in the summer.I thank him for everything he’s done for us, but I’m praying he’s let go in the summer2 -
As others have said a massive clear out is needed, there are only a couple of players good enough to get us out of this league.
I would keep Inniss, Famewo (worth buying), JFC, Shinnie, Jayishemi, Aneke, Stockley (worth buying) and Washington.
Amos is not good enough and none of the full backs are even close to being good enough, Matthews and Gunter are the biggest pair of Welsh comedians since Max Boyce and Harry Secombe and Purrington has come to the end of the line here.
Watson and Pratley have had their day and maybe one of them can do a job as a squad player, Millar has shown some really good stuff but still not convinced of him as an all round player.
Was never convinced by Schwartz, it’s a huge leap from Danish football to English football at his age and his record over there was OK but nothing extraordinary anyway.
So, all up, we are looking at a new keeper, two new full backs and two central defenders plus three midfielders including a couple of wide players and at least one new centre forward.
If Adkins wants to replicate his excellent Saints team then he will look for a big number 9 - we may have that in Stockley already - and play attacking midfielders off him - only time will tell.1
