Vaccine

Leroy Ambrose · March 2021

Rob said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Rob said:

You do have to question though why the AZ numbers are changing. For example both Pfizer and Moderna have basically stuck with their same figures since their trials. Essentially 94/95% efficacy. Why the movement from AstraZeneca. I think that is what is bringing in the scepticism.

Ffs. As data increases the numbers change. It’s really simple. Do you really think that numbers have remained static from phase 3 trials or that after millions of vaccinations they might need a tweak based on the real world data.

Maybe because it wasn’t tested adequately in the first place and they’re tweaking the numbers as more data is coming in. Being medical/health related I can understand the uneasiness here. And I would have thought you could understand that having worked in the medical field yourself. It’s really simple.

Incidentally, my opinion is that the AZ vaccination is more than adequate but there seems to be a common theme of scepticism both in Europe and now in the US. I wonder why that is!

So I’ve had a Lol and a Ffs today from 2 people who obviously know a lot more about this than me so I’m going to leave it at that.

Don't leave it at that! Have a read of rhe posts that explain the issue instead. They're pretty clear if you read them, then ask a question in response if you don't understand one of the points. Simply saying 'that's all I'm going to say' doesn't make sense - you're clearly interested in the subject enough to post about it more than a couple of times, so take the time to read them - otherwise we'll end up in the typical Internet situation of one 'side' of a discussion giving up because their original point or understanding of something is found to be wrong, but they dig their heels in instead of correcting themselves.

Not everything is a personal attack - it's the media that's at fault here through incorrectly reporting the facts, and the education system for not providing people with enough of an understanding of the scientific method that they're easily able to see through it. Nobody will blame you for not seeing the intricate fallacies in statistics though - only boring, dull nerds like me care about that 🤣

Alwaysneil · March 2021

I thought that the level at which a vaccine was considered worthwhile was an effectiveness in preventing contraction of 60%. Above that there is effectiveness of stopping sever illness or death, a different measure.

the astrazenica vaccine is based on many decades old vaccine technology, and so, although not proven, there is limited scope for later repercussions as the track is well trodden. The vaccine is significantly more effective than the 60% hurdle and a huge success.

The MRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderns) are based on new technology which has never previously been clinically approved. The new tech has a much higher effectiveness, some people have concerns about whether there are potential side effects that will only become apparent some years down the line.

Both approaches should be lauded, creating a vaccine so quickly has never happened before . Addressing safety concerns in order to build the vaccination program out into possibly valid sceptics Is very important.

Rob · March 2021

Alright. So this is an article from the Wall Street Journal that articulates more of what I’ve been saying.

So, it’s not just me. And I do understand what has previously been said but I happen not to agree with the sentiment of what has been said. Not good practice in my opinion. I’m going to leave it at that as there’s nothing much else to say apart from a difference of opinion which usually gets nasty.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/astrazeneca-vaccine-slow-rollout-mess-data-11616695692

bobmunro · March 2021

Rob said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Rob said:

You do have to question though why the AZ numbers are changing. For example both Pfizer and Moderna have basically stuck with their same figures since their trials. Essentially 94/95% efficacy. Why the movement from AstraZeneca. I think that is what is bringing in the scepticism.

Ffs. As data increases the numbers change. It’s really simple. Do you really think that numbers have remained static from phase 3 trials or that after millions of vaccinations they might need a tweak based on the real world data.

Maybe because it wasn’t tested adequately in the first place and they’re tweaking the numbers as more data is coming in. Being medical/health related I can understand the uneasiness here. And I would have thought you could understand that having worked in the medical field yourself. It’s really simple.

Incidentally, my opinion is that the AZ vaccination is more than adequate but there seems to be a common theme of scepticism both in Europe and now in the US. I wonder why that is!

So I’ve had a Lol and a Ffs today from 2 people who obviously know a lot more about this than me so I’m going to leave it at that.

You said earlier that the Pfizer and Moderna efficacy figures have remained constant - and this after 100s of millions of doses have been administered. I find it beyond comprehension that their phase 3 trial results predicted precisely what it would replicate in the real world scenario. Have you read or seen any updated efficacy figures for the mRNA vaccines? Particularly as the phase 3 trials for both the mRNA and AZ vaccines were about the same sample size. AZ figures are revised as more information becomes available - and real world is approximating to the trial results, albeit not precisely. Are they victims of their own transparency?

Or could it be that Pfizer and Moderna are making billions out of their vaccines whilst AZ are providing theirs at cost?

ME14addick · March 2021

There must be data on how many of the people being hospitalised and dying, have had at least one dose of a vaccine, more than three weeks before testing positive.

I haven't seen this published anywhere and for me that would be a very good indicator of the effect of the vaccine and would tell me what is the likelihood of me becoming seriously ill or dying.

clive · March 2021

ME14addick said:

There must be data on how many of the people being hospitalised and dying, have had at least one dose of a vaccine, more than three weeks before testing positive.

I haven't seen this published anywhere and for me that would be a very good indicator of the effect and would tell me what is the likelihood of me becoming seriously ill or dying.

I would say there is a strong possibility of you dying, eventually.

Johnnysummers5 · March 2021

I have my second jab, tomorrow afternoon at Charlton House

bobmunro · March 2021

ME14addick said:

There must be data on how many of the people being hospitalised and dying, have had at least one dose of a vaccine, more than three weeks before testing positive.

I haven't seen this published anywhere and for me that would be a very good indicator of the effect of the vaccine and would tell me what is the likelihood of me becoming seriously ill or dying.

My understanding is that the updated efficacy of the AZ vaccine shows the prevention of serious illness or death as a result of Covid infection is 100%. I'm assuming that is based on two doses. I believe the other vaccines are similarly successful.

There will be some deaths amongst positive cases - inevitable as people die and it may be with Covid rather than from Covid. It is though pretty irrefutable now that the vaccines (all of them) are spectacularly successful.

ShootersHillGuru · March 2021

Rob said:

Alright. So this is an article from the Wall Street Journal that articulates more of what I’ve been saying.
So, it’s not just me. And I do understand what has previously been said but I happen not to agree with the sentiment of what has been said. Not good practice in my opinion. I’m going to leave it at that as there’s nothing much else to say apart from a difference of opinion which usually gets nasty.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/astrazeneca-vaccine-slow-rollout-mess-data-11616695692

Still can’t find anything in that article that makes me think that it isn’t basically making a story out of nothing. I’ll stick my neck out again on this thread and say the data for all the vaccines will change a good number of times yet as the real world data rolls in.

cantersaddick · March 2021

bobmunro said:

Rob said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Rob said:

You do have to question though why the AZ numbers are changing. For example both Pfizer and Moderna have basically stuck with their same figures since their trials. Essentially 94/95% efficacy. Why the movement from AstraZeneca. I think that is what is bringing in the scepticism.

Ffs. As data increases the numbers change. It’s really simple. Do you really think that numbers have remained static from phase 3 trials or that after millions of vaccinations they might need a tweak based on the real world data.

Maybe because it wasn’t tested adequately in the first place and they’re tweaking the numbers as more data is coming in. Being medical/health related I can understand the uneasiness here. And I would have thought you could understand that having worked in the medical field yourself. It’s really simple.

Incidentally, my opinion is that the AZ vaccination is more than adequate but there seems to be a common theme of scepticism both in Europe and now in the US. I wonder why that is!

So I’ve had a Lol and a Ffs today from 2 people who obviously know a lot more about this than me so I’m going to leave it at that.

You said earlier that the Pfizer and Moderna efficacy figures have remained constant - and this after 100s of millions of doses have been administered. I find it beyond comprehension that their phase 3 trial results predicted precisely what it would replicate in the real world scenario. Have you read or seen any updated efficacy figures for the mRNA vaccines? Particularly as the phase 3 trials for both the mRNA and AZ vaccines were about the same sample size. AZ figures are revised as more information becomes available - and real world is approximating to the trial results, albeit not precisely. Are they victims of their own transparency?

Or could it be that Pfizer and Moderna are making billions out of their vaccines whilst AZ are providing theirs at cost?

They have changed and moved around just as much its just they haven't got as much press attention over here as they aren't as widely in use.

BrentfordAddick · March 2021

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

KBslittlesis · March 2021

Well I never thought that a simple text would be so mood altering.
Mr O got a text last night & he’s booked in for his 1st jab next Friday!
This is purely because we volunteer for meals on wheels.
I’m guessing he’s been called first as he’s 10yrs older than me.
Either way, I finally have a feeling of optimism 🙏🏻

Dansk_Red · March 2021

Just had 2nd jab will report back later with any reactions

bobmunro · March 2021

BrentfordAddick said:

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

Booked our second jabs yesterday online - 1 May. 11 weeks and a day.

Likewise, the centre where we had the first jab (4 miles from home) was not listed so had to opt for a pharmacy 13 miles away - not an issue though.

SheffieldRed · March 2021

InspectorSands said:

First jab yesterday afternoon at The Valley, excitingly - very strange having it done in Crossbars and then leaving as if I'd just been to a match. Got the text in the morning, in and out with no fuss. And got my sticker.

Squeezed it in just before work, felt a bit dozy after but managed to get a shift done.

Not sure I’d want to be a passenger on the bus you were driving

Arsenetatters · March 2021

bobmunro said:

BrentfordAddick said:

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

Booked our second jabs yesterday online - 1 May. 11 weeks and a day.

Likewise, the centre where we had the first jab (4 miles from home) was not listed so had to opt for a pharmacy 13 miles away - not an issue though.

I had my first jab after a text from the GP at a local centre. They gave me a date for the next one but I need to change it. Can I do this online?

Arsenetatters · March 2021

Dansk_Red said:

Just had 2nd jab will report back later with any reactions

I hope we hear from you!!

southamptonaddick · March 2021

bobmunro said:

BrentfordAddick said:

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

Booked our second jabs yesterday online - 1 May. 11 weeks and a day.

Likewise, the centre where we had the first jab (4 miles from home) was not listed so had to opt for a pharmacy 13 miles away - not an issue though.

bobmunro can you tell me the website you used to book your second appointment.
I have tried the NHS booking website but when I complete my details it just goes back to the beginning.

bobmunro · March 2021

Arsenetatters said:

bobmunro said:

BrentfordAddick said:

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

Booked our second jabs yesterday online - 1 May. 11 weeks and a day.

Likewise, the centre where we had the first jab (4 miles from home) was not listed so had to opt for a pharmacy 13 miles away - not an issue though.

I had my first jab after a text from the GP at a local centre. They gave me a date for the next one but I need to change it. Can I do this online?

Likewise (well my wife did and I just tagged along!). But they never gave us the date for the second jab.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

Select 'Manage my appointments'. I entered my personal details and it automatically picked up I had had the first jab and offered the second jab venues. It did say 'You failed to attend your second appointment so you will need to book again' but ignore that (I hadn't) so it must be a default message.

bobmunro · March 2021

southamptonaddick said:

bobmunro said:

BrentfordAddick said:

Had first vaccine 15 Feb, AZ. Never had second appointment. Was listening to football whilst working last night, bored, so went online to see if could book second vaccine. Did so, 8 May at 1pm so do that then home to see us secure 6th place.

Don't know if I should have waited or what. That's an 11 week gap so hopefully ok. Also, I was given the choice of lots of vaccine centres but none was where I originally went. Second jab is much closer to home, and the first one was only a couple of miles.

Booked our second jabs yesterday online - 1 May. 11 weeks and a day.

Likewise, the centre where we had the first jab (4 miles from home) was not listed so had to opt for a pharmacy 13 miles away - not an issue though.

bobmunro can you tell me the website you used to book your second appointment.
I have tried the NHS booking website but when I complete my details it just goes back to the beginning.

See above response.

Hex · March 2021

Hex said:

IMPORTANT !!!
If anyone had an appointment in April for their 2nd PFizer jab at the following
Alexandra Suite, Swanley (10,11,13,14,16,17th)
Dartford FC (9,10,13,14,16,17th)
Fleet Health Campus (2,3,4,5,7,8th)

and hasn't been contacted (like me !), check https://www.facebook.com/DgshealthGPfed/ for how to make a new date.

Just received a text from "GP Surgery" with a link to book an alternative date. Amazingly it worked - 3rd April at 8:40am - get it over and done with !

Rob · March 2021

ShootersHillGuru said:

Rob said:

Alright. So this is an article from the Wall Street Journal that articulates more of what I’ve been saying.
So, it’s not just me. And I do understand what has previously been said but I happen not to agree with the sentiment of what has been said. Not good practice in my opinion. I’m going to leave it at that as there’s nothing much else to say apart from a difference of opinion which usually gets nasty.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/astrazeneca-vaccine-slow-rollout-mess-data-11616695692

Still can’t find anything in that article that makes me think that it isn’t basically making a story out of nothing. I’ll stick my neck out again on this thread and say the data for all the vaccines will change a good number of times yet as the real world data rolls in.

And I respect your opinion. I believe all the vaccines are doing a really good job and I have no doubt about the efficacy of the AZ vaccine. However, I also believe that AstraZeneca may not have covered themselves in glory in the way they have rolled their vaccine out.

Anyway, we all want the same thing. Everyone to be healthy and safe and for the vaccines to continue to get on top of this virus.

AddicksAddict · March 2021

North Lower Neil said:

AddicksAddict said:

French brother and sister of my acquaintance have decided their Mum is going to get the vaccine as it's not safe. Pointless pointing out to them that not having the vaccine is even less safe.

American of my acquaintance said he's not going to have the vaccine, and his family isn't either, because he's not going to be forced to have it by the president because that's the first step to communism. When I asked him for his source for Biden intending to force the vaccine on all US citizens, he unsurprisingly didn't have one.

Do they not like her then?

It should have said they’ve decided she is not going to get the vaccine.

AddicksAddict · March 2021

A friend just had the vaccine in Germany. As well as the chillout area, she said they’ve got a drum’n’bass room too.

AddicksAddict · March 2021

InspectorSands said:

First jab yesterday afternoon at The Valley, excitingly - very strange having it done in Crossbars and then leaving as if I'd just been to a match. Got the text in the morning, in and out with no fuss. And got my sticker.

Squeezed it in just before work, felt a bit dozy after but managed to get a shift done.

Overnight and today the side effects have hit me like a train - like the aftermath of a flu jab but 10 times stronger. Was really rough this afternoon but slowly feeling better this evening.

Better than being on a ventilator. Roll on jab 2....

You appear to have had pretty much the same side-effects as me. I’m wondering how people like us are going to react to the second jab, whether it will be better or worse.