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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Wigan — 21/8/2021
Comments
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Bedsaddick said:
I’d be interested to compare teams . Anyone know that team ?ValleyOfTears said:
Yes I agree. Parky's team in that televised game was the lowest football can possibly getbromleyjohn said:
That second season in league one under Parkinson. That was some shit team.Bedsaddick said:I defy anyone to show me a squad of the past that is worse than this . How have they let it get this bad ?
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No it's not going to happen, most of the good players that were going to move have moved. Sandgaard has made a serious error, I wonder if anybody on the staff mentioned this to him because it was obvious to all of us bedwetters that there was trouble ahead.NornIrishAddick said:
There's a lot to be said for stability, just as long as we don't sink to the bottom to achieve it, I mean the Titanic has been really stable since 1912...SELR_addicks said:Are we allowed to criticise yet?
It doesn't matter how 'stable' we are if we're going down to League Two anyway.
Is there honestly any chance that we can strengthen this squad enough, with the time left in the transfer window, and whatever loans can be negotiated?5 -
@Airman Brown Which side do you think is more likely? Gallen has a good track record, so its hard to believe he would see this squad as adequate to mount a promotion challenge.Airman Brown said:Feel sorry for the players, who are being let down as much as the fans. What we don’t know is what Roddy, Gallen and Adkins are saying to Sandgaard. If they are not telling him the squad is seriously inadequate then the fault is with them. If they are and he is not listening it’s with him. Maybe it’s a bit of both.1 -
Or Adkins is telling Roddy and Roddy isn't telling Sandgaard or Adkins is telling Gallen and Sandgaard and he tells them to tell Roddy. Or or or we have no idea.Airman Brown said:Feel sorry for the players, who are being let down as much as the fans. What we don’t know is what Roddy, Gallen and Adkins are saying to Sandgaard. If they are not telling him the squad is seriously inadequate then the fault is with them. If they are and he is not listening it’s with him. Maybe it’s a bit of both.
The problem when the manager doesn't get the final say is Thomas will ask Adkins why we are losing he will say its the players aren't good enough, then Roddy will tell him they are. Its almost impossible for Thomas, or any of us, to say with 100% clarity, if its the players or the way they are managed. That's how infighting starts.
I said last season if we lost the 5 worst players and replaced them with 5 "best" players we would stand a very good chance of going up this season. We lost the 5 worst but also 5 of the best!
It says a lot about the quality of the squad that JFC, Gilbey and Purrington would improve the team ten fold. It says a lot about the speed of the recruitment that they have been unavailable for 4 months, 2 months and 4 weeks and haven't been replaced.
As disappointed as I am I have to once again remind myself that this time last year my beloved Charlton were about to go bust and there would have been no Valley in which to attend and curse the person who ensured this didn't happen.
He is a bit of a maverick. He has an awful taste in music and3 -
We just need to worry about staying up now. That’s how far off we are IMO and relegation is unthinkable for this club.CAFCTrev said:
Which side do you think is more likely? Gallen has a good track record, so its hard to believe he would see this squad as adequate to mount a promotion challenge.Airman Brown said:Feel sorry for the players, who are being let down as much as the fans. What we don’t know is what Roddy, Gallen and Adkins are saying to Sandgaard. If they are not telling him the squad is seriously inadequate then the fault is with them. If they are and he is not listening it’s with him. Maybe it’s a bit of both.
We need to try and stay in the division and then hope TS either finds the budget or sells to someone who has it ….. cos we aren’t going anywhere on the current approach.2 -
Said this a few days back, there's no way having turned down many approaches over the last couple of years that he has come in knowing the budget he would be working under.AddickUpNorth said:stoneroses19 said:
Disaster of a start. But wanting the manager to go after 4 league games and 1 in the cup is ridiculous.Todds_right_hook said:I’m mr positive. Fuck off adkins and your shitty walks. 4 defeats in 5. Time to go
It’s possible Adkins may take matters into his own hands and walk. He’s been done up like a kipper with the absolute abysmal nature of our recruitment. No way would he have taken the job if he knew that he’d have these tools to play with.4 -
Yes that’s pretty bad but what would we give for Semedo and Jackson in our current midfield?Cafc43v3r said:Bedsaddick said:
I’d be interested to compare teams . Anyone know that team ?ValleyOfTears said:
Yes I agree. Parky's team in that televised game was the lowest football can possibly getbromleyjohn said:
That second season in league one under Parkinson. That was some shit team.Bedsaddick said:I defy anyone to show me a squad of the past that is worse than this . How have they let it get this bad ?6 -
Clearly misjudgments have been made about the ability of the current group of players to compete for promotion from this league.
TS is no mug (and is no chancer), nor is NA or Gallen.
Regardless of the positive stance that is their style, it will now be plain to them as well as it is to us and surely all the players that this team, not for lack of effort, will not be competitive - certainly not playing this system, most likely not any system.
Better to have that stark truth laid bare now, with time left to do meaningful business in the transfer market.
So, perversely, I’m grateful for the dismal displays in these first 4 games.
Time to go to work gentlemen and do some serious business by way of loans and/or purchases to remedy the deficiencies.
In TS, NA and the recruitment team I still confidently trust.
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Thats so over the top.Hal1x said:Got a season ticket on the back of false promises and stupid optimism. Now I'm totally demoralised and have no desire to go again this season. Crap journey, £4.50 for a crap pie, a truely useless team who created nothing, and couldn't even be professional to see it out for a draw. Saw 6 minutes extra time, and knew even if it was sixty we wouldn't score, never seen such a piss-poor team in all my years at Charlton, and boy, have I seen some piss-poor teams in that time. And the worse thing- really cant see it getting better.
I thought the pie was decent.7 -
Yeah but Jackson was the left back......Bedsaddick said:
Yes that’s pretty bad but what would we give for Semedo and Jackson in our current midfield?Cafc43v3r said:Bedsaddick said:
I’d be interested to compare teams . Anyone know that team ?ValleyOfTears said:
Yes I agree. Parky's team in that televised game was the lowest football can possibly getbromleyjohn said:
That second season in league one under Parkinson. That was some shit team.Bedsaddick said:I defy anyone to show me a squad of the past that is worse than this . How have they let it get this bad ?2 -
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It was deflected off targetRedPanda said:
They put in a few diagonal crosses that looked like potential goals as well. We were clueless.EveshamAddick said:
That’s how to do it. Football’s a simple game really.MattF said:
Kirk had a shot on target so I make that one in 180 minutes at home.0 -
Charlton
- 25 Randolph
- 03 Youga
- 18 S Sodje
- 31 Omozusi
- 35 Dailly
- 04 Bailey
- 06 Semedoyellow card (Wagstaff 85)
- 07 Shelvey (Burton 68)
- 08 Racon
- 11 Sam
- 15 McLeod (McKenzie 68)
Substitutes
- 32 Binks,
- 05 Llera,
- 12 Basey,
- 16 Wagstaff,
- 14 Spring,
- 09 McKenzie,
- 10 Burton
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You are correct in that figures are undisclosed. Why you think your figures are more accurate than those genareally accepted I don't know. Particularly as Stockley was in a bidding war with Pompey and although that was decided on wages Preston would not have gone along if our bid didn't at least match theirs. Also wages are a factor. if you think we are paying no more for Stockley than we did last year then I am surprised to say the least. My figure is probably toppy but even if your £1m were to be right (which I don't believe) it is still far more than Bowyer even spent.golfaddick said:
You keep spouting there figures. And then are wrong.redman said:
We have so far spent £2m on transfers. Bowyer could only dream of that sort of investment!BigDiddy said:redman said:
TS has given us a bigger budget than most teams. Very few have spent as much money as us. Stockley £750k (outbidding Portsmouth) £500k on Kirk and others.J BLOCK said:People blaming Adkins are mad, it’s TS who has the cheque book and he’s given us a budget that gets us Dobson and Clare. Can’t describe how pissed off I am.
As for Dobson and Clare, I'm not sure who signed them but in case you didn't notice Clare didn't play today!
Tactics were dreadful. That was our biggest downfall
Firstly, the transfers are usually "undisclosed" so you have no more knowledge then anyone else. I believe the figures knocking about for Stockley was less than £500k....£400k I remember being quoted on here over the summer. Kirk we believe had a release clause of £500k.....but againt hat has never been stated publicly. Clare from Oxford was in the region of £100k if Robinson can be believed.....and I think Dobson was released from his contract.
So I reckon £1m is about the right figure.
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Many of them went on to better thingsCafc43v3r said:Bedsaddick said:
I’d be interested to compare teams . Anyone know that team ?ValleyOfTears said:
Yes I agree. Parky's team in that televised game was the lowest football can possibly getbromleyjohn said:
That second season in league one under Parkinson. That was some shit team.Bedsaddick said:I defy anyone to show me a squad of the past that is worse than this . How have they let it get this bad ?1 -
Very little to add tonight but for me, this was definitely our strongest performance of this season so far & I came out of The Valley saying that the result was harsh on a team that held their own for 99% of that game. The 2nd goal didn't matter - was merely the icing on Wigan's cake with our lads still recovering from their late winner.shirty5 said:
They give their all for the shirt, and I won’t deny them that. We have all seen enough chancers in the past nicking a wage wearing red but most of these fellas are just not good enough but that fault lies with the senior management who thought otherwise.HandG said:I thought that today was probably the best I’ve seen us play this season (seen three of four games) but sadly that isn’t saying too much.It is interesting to read the majority of the XI getting coated on here by one poster or another-in the main I saw players giving 100% for the team but sadly, at the moment, we just lack quality particularly in the attacking third.In saying that, one thing that did piss me off and led to us conceding the opener was our wingers not tracking their full backs. We’re Charlton, not Barcelona, and these bods need to realise that they need to do their bit defensively and not just stand around like dickheads especially when they haven’t beat their man for most of the game nor put in a cross in anger. I know it’s his debut but if Blackett Taylor stays with his man, they don’t score. In a game that tight, the finest of margins are so important and we can’t keep doing it.
And as far as I'm concerned, they did give their all for the shirt today.
I'm not in the habit of giving praise lightly but how anyone with hand on heart can say this was no improvement on the Oxford & MKDons' performances should seriously consider whether their post match remarks were partly knee jerk reactions to another defeat. I can understand if so- we've all been there but in the cold light of the next day might reconsider the harshness of our views immediately after a match.
Of course, in no way am I stating that this improvement could be the springboard for the rest of the season - I'm not that charitable or deluded. But there were a few definite positives to take, in the guise of Charlie Kirk's full debut & the fine saves made by our new, somewhat derided 'keeper. Small steps of positivity but we need to take these on board as opposed to tarring every player with the same brush. Credit where credit's due.
I won't try to comment on why Albie isn't the no 10 we badly need or why our full backs are somewhat lacking - that's for others to dissect & discuss but I can see when a player is trying his best regardless of whether he's a square peg in a round hole. For me, that's down to the gaffer & to some degree, to the "tools" he's been handed /the financial restrictions imposed on him by the club's owner.
And this is where most of us appear to agree, and have done for a couple of weeks....
The need for well scouted additions to the squad to strengthen certain positions is paramount as the window is ever closer to shutting. And if this means spending more than was hoped, tough sh*t. Speculate to accumulate, within reason.
The need for TS to re-assess his priorities & make the result clear to all concerned ie GR, SG & NA. IF this means changes to the hierarchy or indeed processes currently in place, then so be it. And an appearance on Charlton TV to communicate his reasoning to supporters would be most welcome. Maybe this would go some way to repairing the special relationship he engendered 12 months ago & which is currently in the "pending basket" for some. Walking is good, but talking is better.
The need ( respectfully, TS) for a stronger SMT in SE7, with an on site CEO in situ, ideally with experience of working in a football environment to oversee daily business and to re-evaluate best practices to ensure they work for each department and for their "customers" eg the timings of Valley Express, sufficient staffing levels for supporter contact by phone etc as Airman Brown has indicated recently. Again, if this means employing more personnel, then that's what has to be done. As a successful businessman, our owner will be well aware of the importance of ensuring a strong structure is in place behind the scenes. Again, another financial outlay though.
In order to put these, and likely other improvements in place, it's possible that our owner will seek to find an investor/s to share the load - only he will know whether he's prepared to use this route or whether he is able to find other means of accessing necessary funds. But, as others have stated, this is a decision which needs attention sooner rather than later in order for our club to move forward with less financial restrictions.
Simples ?
Nah. But buying a football club is a huge commitment & due diligence presumably needed to be carried out meticulously before signing on the dotted line. But lessons will inevitably be learned once the keys have been handed over & the champers consumed....
Anyone who doubts that but for this special man, and this man alone, we might have been watching The Hundred finals on Sky this afternoon ( or not !) is deluded IMO. We owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
But this famous football club has played a huge part in all our lives far longer than in his.
And we have every right to criticise & question when something urgently needs addressing, on and off the pitch, that threatens to destabilise the "ship". Its wellbeing and progress is always uppermost in our minds. We are proud of our club and want to show it off to others in the hope they too will worship at our Valley. But at this moment in time, that wellbeing seems to be in doubt with the booing heard at the final whistle in the last 2 games, a clear message of that malaise.
We have to hope that our concerns are heard by those who make the decisions and that, together with any misgivings, they may have, something will change before the faithful begin to lose heart and the toxicity some have mentioned tonight, becomes ugly.
Let's do our best to keep the faith in this difficult time and try to stay positive, however difficult that might be.24 -
A running theme with our defending that goes back to 2019/20. We’ve conceded a very high number of goals from turnovers in the attacking third and 2 or 3 passes and a few seconds later there’s an opposition player shooting at our goal.MattF said:
First goal against vs Oxford is another good example of this, when Morgan lost the ball 80 yards from our goal.
I think it’s scaring the likes of Morgan a little bit. I know he has his flaws, but he looked reluctant today to play the harder pass that might open something up, instead opting for the safe pass to avoid losing possession.5 -
So TS sets a budget probably 4th or 5th highest in the division and it's his fault we are in the relegation zone?carly burn said:
No disrespect, and I know TS is a little wet around the ears but I reckon my old Nan could tell the squad is inadequateAirman Brown said:Feel sorry for the players, who are being let down as much as the fans. What we don’t know is what Roddy, Gallen and Adkins are saying to Sandgaard. If they are not telling him the squad is seriously inadequate then the fault is with them. If they are and he is not listening it’s with him. Maybe it’s a bit of both.2 -
5 or 6 of that starting XI get in today’s team, IMO, and most of that bench is better than we had on offer to us today as well.ValleyOfTears said:Charlton
- 25 Randolph
- 03 Youga
- 18 S Sodje
- 31 Omozusi
- 35 Dailly
- 04 Bailey
- 06 Semedoyellow card (Wagstaff 85)
- 07 Shelvey (Burton 68)
- 08 Racon
- 11 Sam
- 15 McLeod (McKenzie 68)
Substitutes
- 32 Binks,
- 05 Llera,
- 12 Basey,
- 16 Wagstaff,
- 14 Spring,
- 09 McKenzie,
- 10 Burton
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Fanny Fanackapan said:
Very little to add tonight but for me, this was definitely our strongest performance of this season so far & I came out of The Valley saying that the result was harsh on a team that held their own for 99% of that game. The 2nd goal didn't matter - was merely the icing on Wigan's cake with our lads still recovering from their late winner.shirty5 said:
They give their all for the shirt, and I won’t deny them that. We have all seen enough chancers in the past nicking a wage wearing red but most of these fellas are just not good enough but that fault lies with the senior management who thought otherwise.HandG said:I thought that today was probably the best I’ve seen us play this season (seen three of four games) but sadly that isn’t saying too much.It is interesting to read the majority of the XI getting coated on here by one poster or another-in the main I saw players giving 100% for the team but sadly, at the moment, we just lack quality particularly in the attacking third.In saying that, one thing that did piss me off and led to us conceding the opener was our wingers not tracking their full backs. We’re Charlton, not Barcelona, and these bods need to realise that they need to do their bit defensively and not just stand around like dickheads especially when they haven’t beat their man for most of the game nor put in a cross in anger. I know it’s his debut but if Blackett Taylor stays with his man, they don’t score. In a game that tight, the finest of margins are so important and we can’t keep doing it.
Have to disagree on that one, I thought Sheff Weds was our best game so far. This was a moderate improvement on the last two aways, but it wasn't harsh on us at all, Wigan could have been 3 nil up at half time. If we nicked a draw it wouldn't have been deserved. I count 6 maybe 7 shots on target so far across all of our games this season? Thats appalling.4 -
Been thinking about this recently, maybe he's holding on to see what happens between now and the end of the window and then will decide. Part of me wouldn't be surprised if he walked but then you have to imagine if he has another one of these on his CV it does him a lot of harm for the future.charltonbob said:
Said this a few days back, there's no way having turned down many approaches over the last couple of years that he has come in knowing the budget he would be working under.AddickUpNorth said:stoneroses19 said:
Disaster of a start. But wanting the manager to go after 4 league games and 1 in the cup is ridiculous.Todds_right_hook said:I’m mr positive. Fuck off adkins and your shitty walks. 4 defeats in 5. Time to go
It’s possible Adkins may take matters into his own hands and walk. He’s been done up like a kipper with the absolute abysmal nature of our recruitment. No way would he have taken the job if he knew that he’d have these tools to play with.
One thing is for sure if we don't get more quality in over the next week and a bit and Adkins walks we are in a crisis.1 -
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I can't fault the effort of even most of the players - I think there's several of them giving everything they can in every game. We can see which players they are, but they are all let down by a wafer-thin midfield that lacks in the modern qualities that you need, even in League 1.
There's a few players that do deserve the boo boys. Watson is just not the kind of player we need, because he offers nothing but breaking up play and little/no desire to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and win. He's past the point in his career that he truly cares about the outcome at the end of the season. Gunter is playing out of position, but again, isn't going to be pushing himself. Take the wage, plays because we literally have no-one else and has all his best days behind him. Matthews is also a player that is underperforming compared to the past - I remember him marauding forward more than he currently does to support the right-sided midfielder. Again, I just feel he's not got the desire.
I think there's collective responsibility across the management and ownership team for where we are:- TS sets the budget, and we've had one of NA/SG (can't remember exactly who) come out and say we won't pay the big wages other clubs have paid. The fans, including myself, had heightened expectations for out first summer with a new owner, new manager and a budget to play with. It's not my money and I don't know the true state of our wage structure, but we're not willing to break it and this ultimately comes back to TS.
- The recruitment team have still got work to do because of the limitations we have in budget and competition. You can only work with what you are given, but we still have gaps in key areas.
- I think NA is doing all he can with what he has, but I think the lack of a decent midfield is making him look worse than he is. He's trying his best to deflect as much as he can away from these players, but I think he'll be disappointed with the lack of players he could bring in plus the disappointing performance of many players in midfield.
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That 2010/11 Parky team was around the playoffs for most of the season despite its limitations. The 2016/17 Slade team was far more disappointing, mid table mediocrity and dull football before he was sacked. Ajose was ultimate one season wonder, a great season for Swindon before we signed him, and rubbish ever since7
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Agree with nearly all this. Particularly the point about not getting enough players in the box. When other sides attack there are often 3 4 or even 5 players getting in the box. With us it's Stockley. Morgan has come in come for a lot of critism and although I know he didn;t have a great game he seemed to be having to do 2 jobs. Both support Stockley and provide the service to him. I rememmber once in first half he fought hrd to get the ball, got past a couple pf players looked up and Stockley wa surrounded by 5 Wigan players with not another Charlton player within sight. Decided to go back rightly or wrongly. Stockley, our supposed captain had a real go at him for not crossing the ball to him. Morgan's head dropped for and Stockley continued to berate. Is that the way to captain? Although I can fully understand Stockley's frustration as he worked his arse off.JamesSeed said:Missed the first 10 mins, but for much of the game I thought we did well, but it was always the final pass that was lacking.I don’t like criticising individual players, especially when they give 100%, but Morgan seems to have the ball more than any other player, and because he doesn’t use it very well our half decent build up play comes to nothing. An upgrade could make a massive difference.The other thing is that our wingers both had decent games, but because we don’t get enough players in the box their crosses come to nothing. You won’t find Watson or Dobson in the box. Nor Morgan very often. DJ arrives too late, if at all. Kirk, who’s a league above, gets in the box quite well, and you can see him getting on the scoresheet.So two better midfielders, one being a playmaker, are what we need, plus a back up CB. A left back too, ideally.3 -
There were times today where it looked to me that Morgan was trying to play as more of a 10 in a traditional 4-4-2. The gaps between him and Watson/Dobson were regularly huge, and Morgan simply doesn't have the ability to operate like that. Arguably this was supposed to be more like a 4-3-3, but with 2 holding midfielders (which I utterly detest), two traditional wingers and a singular centre forward, there's an ocean-sized gap for a natural box-to-box 10 to fill. This just doesn't play to his strengths at all - he won't dribble, he won't win second balls and just get muscled out.
Even when Washington came on and we did go more legitimately 4-4-2, it still doesn't work. Washington wants to go into the same space Kirk does, naturally negating Kirk by pulling more players towards him. Steve Brown said the same thing last season about DJ - we want to create 1:1 situations for our wingers, and that starts with the players building those situations by creating space elsewhere. We tried switching play a few times in that way, but space is only generated in this way by solid passing and movement in midfield.
We used to rely on Aneke to come on, hold the ball up and/or run at defenders, but the option has gone and has not been replaced. I feel like 4-4-2 would probably be the better system for us going forward, but it shifts reliance on to having both a new midfielder and a new 10-style forward, whereas we'd need a couple of midfielders to remain reliant on 4-3-3.2 -
I thought we were really poor today and we look more likely to get relegated than promoted from what i’ve seen. Only one thing i disagree with what some others are saying is the ‘Watson is stealing a living comments’. I don’t particularly rate him at all, certainly too slow for a serious side wanting promotion, but today i thought he was our best out field player. Not good when that’s the case.
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What are the odds on Adkins walking within 30 days of the window closing? Pretty high I reckon1
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Nigel Adkins is an experienced manager and a man that clearly has principles, there is no way in the world that he would have taken this job unless he had been promised a proper budget.
Adkins KNOWS what it takes to get out of League One, he's done it several times, you need solid experience and you need GOALS in the team and we don't have that at all.
For me, if we don't bring in another five or six quality players before the window closes, and that doesn't include Tranmere Rovers cast offs, then Adkins will walk away and quite bloody right too.
The state of the squad is shameful, how can we not have a ********* left-back for the first five games of the season?7 -
How often do managers actually ‘walk’?
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It’s a minor thing but the bloke who runs the twitter feed is unbelievably tedious.
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But, as I have been banging on for weeks & weeks & weeks.....we all knew the squad wasn't good enough ages ago & we keep being told to wait until transfer deadline day (even Gallen said this just the other day) and we'll pick up a bargain when prices fall/teams are desperate/Chelsea need to offload 17 year old Jonny-never-played-before. Just because we've lost 3 on the spin do you think these clubs are now going to be accommodating...? The opposite will now be true. They now know that we are desperate so will jack up the price even further. We have done ourselves no favours & as every day passes the worse it gets. Its like being in quicksand & with every turn we are sinking further.PeanutsMolloy said:Clearly misjudgments have been made about the ability of the current group of players to compete for promotion from this league.
TS is no mug (and is no chancer), nor is NA or Gallen.
Regardless of the positive stance that is their style, it will now be plain to them as well as it is to us and surely all the players that this team, not for lack of effort, will not be competitive - certainly not playing this system, most likely not any system.
Better to have that stark truth laid bare now, with time left to do meaningful business in the transfer market.
So, perversely, I’m grateful for the dismal displays in these first 4 games.
Time to go to work gentlemen and do some serious business by way of loans and/or purchases to remedy the deficiencies.
In TS, NA and the recruitment team I still confidently trust.
But of course I'm wrong. I've been wrong all summer and by next week Chelsea, Arsenal & West Ham will be loaning us the next Gallagher, Biliek & Cullen.8
