Post-match Thread: Charlton v Wigan — 21/8/2021

CAFCTrev said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

shirty5 said:

HandG said:

I thought that today was probably the best I’ve seen us play this season (seen three of four games) but sadly that isn’t saying too much. 

It is interesting to read the majority of the XI getting coated on here by one poster or another-in the main I saw players giving 100% for the team but sadly, at the moment, we just lack quality particularly in the attacking third. 

In saying that, one thing that did piss me off and led to us conceding the opener was our wingers not tracking their full backs. We’re Charlton, not Barcelona, and these bods need to realise that they need to do their bit defensively and not just stand around like dickheads especially when they haven’t beat their man for most of the game nor put in a cross in anger. I know it’s his debut but if Blackett Taylor stays with his man, they don’t score. In a game that tight, the finest of margins are so important and we can’t keep doing it. 

They give their all for the shirt, and I won’t deny them that. We have all seen enough chancers in the past nicking a wage wearing red but most of these fellas are just not good enough but that fault lies with the senior management who thought otherwise. 

Very little to add tonight but for me, this was definitely our strongest performance of this season so far & I came out of The Valley saying that the result was harsh on a team that held their own for 99% of that game. The 2nd goal didn't matter - was merely the icing on Wigan's cake with our lads still recovering from their late winner.   

Have to disagree on that one, I thought Sheff Weds was our best game so far. This was a moderate improvement on the last two aways, but it wasn't harsh on us at all, Wigan could have been 3 nil up at half time. If we nicked a draw it wouldn't have been deserved. I count 6 maybe 7 shots on target so far across all of our games this season? Thats appalling. 

Not surprising though when we have just 3 fit strikers, one of whom is a youngster & not really league quality & the other is playing out of position. 

We didnt make the play offs last year with those strikers......and then we lost Aneke. To think that we would improve without replacing him is straight out of cloud cuckoo land. 

Half you lot saying I told you so are the same that were spunking over Adkins appointment.

its fucking embarrassing 

redman said:

golfaddick said:

redman said:

BigDiddy said:

CAFCTrev said:

LoOkOuT said:

Trust that the recruitment team is working hard to address the obvious weaknesses. 

Theyve had since the end of last season!

There is NO MONEY - a few last minute loans, just like the Tranmere [league 3] reject we got yesterday. TS is happy with this set up.

We have so far spent £2m on transfers. Bowyer could only dream of that sort of investment! 

redman said:

J BLOCK said:

People blaming Adkins are mad, it’s TS who has the cheque book and he’s given us a budget that gets us Dobson and Clare. Can’t describe how pissed off I am. 

TS has given us a bigger budget than most teams. Very few have spent as much money as us. Stockley £750k (outbidding Portsmouth) £500k on Kirk and others. 
As for Dobson and Clare, I'm not sure who signed them but in case you didn't notice Clare didn't play today!
Tactics were dreadful. That was our biggest downfall

You keep spouting there figures. And then are wrong.

Firstly, the transfers are usually "undisclosed" so you have no more knowledge then anyone else. I believe the figures knocking about for Stockley was less than £500k....£400k I remember being quoted on here over the summer. Kirk we believe had a release clause of £500k.....but againt hat has never been stated publicly. Clare from Oxford was in the region of £100k if Robinson can be believed.....and I think Dobson was released from his contract.

So I reckon £1m is about the right figure.

 

You are correct in that figures are undisclosed. Why you think your figures are more accurate than those genareally accepted I don't know. Particularly as Stockley was in a bidding war with Pompey and although that was decided on wages Preston would not have gone along if our bid didn't at least match theirs. Also wages are a factor. if you think we are paying no more for Stockley than we did last year then I am surprised to say the least. My figure is probably toppy but even if your £1m were to be right (which I don't believe) it is still far more than Bowyer even spent. 

It’s worth remembering that Charlton received £4m more in transfer payments than they spent in 20/21, which is disclosed in the 19/20 accounts. This will include the transfer fees for Schwartz and Stockley because they fell before the sign-off of the accounts and are disclosed as part of spending of £1.4m on all signings and agents fees, etc, in that period. The club received £5.6m in fees - including Bonne, Doughty and windfalls.

Obviously 20/21 was a horrible year financially from a revenue perspective and profit is needed to help towards funding the operating loss, but I do think you have to factor the significant transfer income into the signings as it falls outside Sandgaard’s planned investment (the original £10.5m loan plus cost of removing ESI) .

One puzzle over the summer has been that the fees paid don’t seem to tally with the noise around wages, which appear to be an obstacle to recruitment. It’s a puzzle because as you’ve said players signed for a fee tend to command good wages. However it would be amazing if the wages budget isn’t a major part of the reason for the recruitment shortfall.

Maccn05 said:

What are the odds on Adkins walking within 30 days of the window closing? Pretty high I reckon 

He won’t walk 

Having had time to calm down and reflect on the game, I think for 70 minutes, we didn’t actually play too badly today. Generally we looked to play our way out, and Watson and Dobson had a grip of the middle of the park. But to be fair to Wigan, every time the put the ball in the box they looked like scoring. Our wingers made it to easy for them to cross, and was not tight. They were crossing from pretty deep. RI & AF got beat every time, or would lose their men.. that is a big issue for me. I think we might need to get Pearce back in the team, he might give the odd penalty away, but you know, they won’t get a free header! 

What has puzzled me the most over the summer is it has felt like Sandgaard has cash flow problems then we make a signing like Stockley and then it starts to feel that way again and we sign Kirk. These signings suggest there is money so maybe it is strategy. As Airman has suggested, maybe the issue has been the wages budget. Maybe that is what has stopped us getting and indeed keeping, in the case of Chuks, the out of contract talent we were hoping for and needed. And maybe in this Covid world, clubs like Wigan and Ipswich spending big was not anticipated.

Maybe we had an inflated view of what our youngsters could give us. There are some decent prospects in there but the way they progress to the first team is impressing off the bench and earning a chance. Or simply knocking on the door in U-23 matches so loudly they have to be let in. In League One, this will happen but can't be forced.

I don't think we can blame Adkins. He is a manager with experience and a decent track record. He may not be the best manager in the world, but he will know where we are short. He is not the sort to throw players under a bus and that may reap some rewards later in the season. It is personally frustrating as I have little interest in what he says publicly, but his job is not to interest me with what he says, but with what we do on the pitch.

But for there to be a season and not a total disaster some rabbits need to be found in the hat. We as fans are powerless, other than to hope there are some rabbits left in there and we can find them. A poster suggested that my system of looking at historic goals and assists may be a bit blunt. And of course it is in the days of detailed analysis. But as I don't have that analysis, it can still be quite telling. Like Fanny, I don't think a lot of our play was that bad yesterday. I even noticed periods when we were clearly on top, but the fact is, we don't, as a team, look like scoring and Wigan did. It is unusual for players who don't score many or create much to suddenly start doing so. Some may, but we have too many of these players in key positions and whilst they may have other qualities, football requires chance creation and the scoring of goals.

Stockley is our main threat and is respected as such by opponents. We need a few more threats and that might free him from those shackles a bit.  Our midfield lacks threats and surely that has to be the priority to sort out in the days ahead.

I think Purrington does support the wide player well and he is good for this level. Gunter is playing out of position and is doing a job which is all we can reasonably expect of him and criticism he gets from some is unfair. Matthews has disappointed me as for whatever reason, he hasn't shown what he has shown previously and I'd like us to try Gunter there when Purrington returns. The full backs need to provide some attacking options through working with our wide attacking players..

Innis has shown that he can be a game changer in both boxes, but he is clearly and understandably not yet up to speed and we have to keep our fingers crossed he doesn't get injured as he does so. Unless Gilbey's return is imminent, we need two midfielders. I worry what we will do if Stockley gets injured too. That is probably three players of a proven quality that can turn this around. Will we get them in days when we haven't managed it in 3 months? That is the question.

guinnessaddick said:

Ormiston_Addick said:

Hartleypete said:

I think the real problem is that we do not have an experienced football man running the business.

The owner needs to appoint a good CEO to run the whole club, he can not possibly do it from the USA.

The club is a shambles both on and off the pitch. We are rudderless, nobody seems to be in charge many chiefs and not enough Indians, all building their own mini empires.

The sooner this happens the better but sadly I don’t think TS can see the wood from the trees and the people he has put his trust in are simply not good enough.

Absolutely spot on.

I have worked for some great leaders in my time and their number one similarity was that they appointed good people into a proper structure and trusted them to do their jobs.

Funnily enough, I am working on a short term contract right now where the MD positions himself as the “Celebrity CEO” and micro manages everything and, as a result, the place is a fucking shambles and there are people getting paid $200,000 to delegate everything back to him.

Sandgaard has zero experience in football, none, nada, rien, zilch, fuck all - so how can he expect to run the club?

If I bought a a vineyard tomorrow I wouldn’t appoint myself as CEO, no matter how much I may want to, because I know nothing about the wine industry in the same way Sandgaard knows nothing about the football industry.

@TelMc32 & I have a mate who has worked in football all his career, various positions such as FD, CEO & MD. He was out of work last year for a short time, he approached TS via LinkedIn to introduce himself a couple of times. TS never replied, so from that I can only think that TS doesn’t want or believe he needs someone at the club to run it for him.

To take anything from that though, we would have to know who your mate is. I would imagine a CEO job is often advertised or head hunted.

Maccn05 said:

What are the odds on Adkins walking within 30 days of the window closing? Pretty high I reckon 

We can hope 

Ok got home about 9.30 last night, poured a large glass of red, sat down and started trawling through here and Twitter to see the reaction, then decided not to add but to sleep on it.
I've calmed down now and the first thing 

MuttleyCAFC said:

guinnessaddick said:

Ormiston_Addick said:

Hartleypete said:

I think the real problem is that we do not have an experienced football man running the business.

The owner needs to appoint a good CEO to run the whole club, he can not possibly do it from the USA.

The club is a shambles both on and off the pitch. We are rudderless, nobody seems to be in charge many chiefs and not enough Indians, all building their own mini empires.

The sooner this happens the better but sadly I don’t think TS can see the wood from the trees and the people he has put his trust in are simply not good enough.

Absolutely spot on.

I have worked for some great leaders in my time and their number one similarity was that they appointed good people into a proper structure and trusted them to do their jobs.

Funnily enough, I am working on a short term contract right now where the MD positions himself as the “Celebrity CEO” and micro manages everything and, as a result, the place is a fucking shambles and there are people getting paid $200,000 to delegate everything back to him.

Sandgaard has zero experience in football, none, nada, rien, zilch, fuck all - so how can he expect to run the club?

If I bought a a vineyard tomorrow I wouldn’t appoint myself as CEO, no matter how much I may want to, because I know nothing about the wine industry in the same way Sandgaard knows nothing about the football industry.

@TelMc32 & I have a mate who has worked in football all his career, various positions such as FD, CEO & MD. He was out of work last year for a short time, he approached TS via LinkedIn to introduce himself a couple of times. TS never replied, so from that I can only think that TS doesn’t want or believe he needs someone at the club to run it for him.

To take anything from that though, we would have to know who your mate is. I would imagine a CEO job is often advertised or head hunted.

He’s been at Everton, Hull, Coventry, Derby, Shef Utd, Drogheda, Dundee Utd and now  CEO at Wigan.

MuttleyCAFC said:

JamesSeed said:

CAFCTrev said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

shirty5 said:

HandG said:

I thought that today was probably the best I’ve seen us play this season (seen three of four games) but sadly that isn’t saying too much. 

It is interesting to read the majority of the XI getting coated on here by one poster or another-in the main I saw players giving 100% for the team but sadly, at the moment, we just lack quality particularly in the attacking third. 

In saying that, one thing that did piss me off and led to us conceding the opener was our wingers not tracking their full backs. We’re Charlton, not Barcelona, and these bods need to realise that they need to do their bit defensively and not just stand around like dickheads especially when they haven’t beat their man for most of the game nor put in a cross in anger. I know it’s his debut but if Blackett Taylor stays with his man, they don’t score. In a game that tight, the finest of margins are so important and we can’t keep doing it. 

They give their all for the shirt, and I won’t deny them that. We have all seen enough chancers in the past nicking a wage wearing red but most of these fellas are just not good enough but that fault lies with the senior management who thought otherwise. 

Very little to add tonight but for me, this was definitely our strongest performance of this season so far & I came out of The Valley saying that the result was harsh on a team that held their own for 99% of that game. The 2nd goal didn't matter - was merely the icing on Wigan's cake with our lads still recovering from their late winner.   

Have to disagree on that one, I thought Sheff Weds was our best game so far. This was a moderate improvement on the last two aways, but it wasn't harsh on us at all, Wigan could have been 3 nil up at half time. If we nicked a draw it wouldn't have been deserved. I count 6 maybe 7 shots on target so far across all of our games this season? Thats appalling. 

Not 3. Would have taken a pretty poor keeper to not have stopped at least two of those. It’s our lack of shots on target that’s most worrying for me. 

Yes, if you are creating chances and missing them, it is a concern but not half as concerning as not creating them.

Saying this to my Dad yesterday when we dominated the ball and tempo. Was counting the phases of play and asking when are we actually meant to play the killer ball in our move. 

This is the team that put 6 past Plymouth a mere 4 months ago. Watson played the whole game and 7 out of the 16 players used played yesterday. Main difference is that 4 of the goals were scored by Gilbey, Aneke, Millar and JFC (2 injured and 2 gone). 3 out of 4 assists were from players on the pitch yesterday (Matthews, Stockley, DJ) with only Pratley missing. 

Gravesend_Addick said:

I don't blame Adkins for this shitshow. 

He stood on the pitch at the end of last season & said 'that'll be us next year' when Hull were celebrating. 

I think he genuinely thought it at the time. I believe the budget he was promised at the time has been stripped back.

Sandgaard, Roddy & maybe even Gallen have seriously let Adkins down in my opinion 

Maybe but if the best you can come up with is to lump it up there and get two not very good runners to feed off that you bring it on yourself a little