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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)

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  • FishCostaFortune
    FishCostaFortune Posts: 10,773
    edited September 2021
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,821
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,733
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,254
    Airman Brown said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
    I agree it was a scramble, but I don’t think it’s much different for the majority of clubs now (I say think as I have no evidence).  Bar that season Powell got the Jenkinson money and Cash was our benefactor, I think every other window with the exception of RD’s first full one, has been ducking and diving.

    That RD summer when we brought in Bergdych etc seemed well executed, until the majority of them went south.  You could argue this one was more ducking and diving than others and hence more of a scramble, but I wouldn’t know how to compare it to others as I’m not behind the scenes 

    I guess you can say they should’ve made a better job of it given TS’ statements of intent, but I think it’s part not executing properly, part not being set up in the right way, part at the mercy of the market and part understanding how the remnants and the effect Covid has had on the market.

    I give the whole window a thumbs up, but a choppy journey and hopefully lessons have been learnt 

    It will be interesting to compare to the likes of Ipswich who have brought in 18 players and our other promotion rivals as the season plays out.  A good indicator of how much of scramble it has been is the amount of viable first team midfielders we have on our books.  I think it’s too many (I know some are loans), however the amount would seem to suggest that’s where it’s gone a bit awry 
  • FishCostaFortune
    FishCostaFortune Posts: 10,773
    Airman Brown said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
    Yeah indeed. Hard to tell really - did we make early enquiries about Leko but were only told we would get him if Birmingham brought in another striker and there were no championship loan options for him. - meaning we had to wait until late. Or did we exhaust other options in that area or was he was lucky enough to become avaliable on the day. 

    I don't necessarily buy the narrative that getting 2 players in on deadline day (Arter was already pretty much done the weekend before), and both who don't necessarily seem like traditional panic buys and should be decent quality means we were scrambling about. They are not bottom of the barrel signings at all.

    But then again there does seem to have been a shift in the type of player we were after, after Dobson and Clare. 
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,272
    AFKABartram said:
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
    Absolutely, the amount of times I read on here that Gills had a loan to repay and we're stuffed yet they reportedly turned down multiple offers on the 31st for Oliver, Dempsey and Tucker whilst bringing one young lad in on loan...doesn't scream of a club in dire straights.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,733
    edited September 2021
    cabbles said:
    Airman Brown said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
    I agree it was a scramble, but I don’t think it’s much different for the majority of clubs now (I say think as I have no evidence).  Bar that season Powell got the Jenkinson money and Cash was our benefactor, I think every other window with the exception of RD’s first full one, has been ducking and diving.

    That RD summer when we brought in Bergdych etc seemed well executed, until the majority of them went south.  You could argue this one was more ducking and diving than others and hence more of a scramble, but I wouldn’t know how to compare it to others as I’m not behind the scenes 

    I guess you can say they should’ve made a better job of it given TS’ statements of intent, but I think it’s part not executing properly, part not being set up in the right way, part at the mercy of the market and part understanding how the remnants and the effect Covid has had on the market.

    I give the whole window a thumbs up, but a choppy journey and hopefully lessons have been learnt 

    It will be interesting to compare to the likes of Ipswich who have brought in 18 players and our other promotion rivals as the season plays out.  A good indicator of how much of scramble it has been is the amount of viable first team midfielders we have on our books.  I think it’s too many (I know some are loans), however the amount would seem to suggest that’s where it’s gone a bit awry 
    It’s really not the case that there was a financial splurge in 2011. We did spend the Davison money but fees were probably less than we’ve spent this year. The wages budget was reduced by the spivs that year and the only reason it is higher in the accounts is because promotion bonuses were paid.

    RD spent decent money, certainly in 2014-2016. He just bought far too many of the wrong players and appointed the wrong managers to oversee them.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Athletico Charlton said:
    AFKABartram said:
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
    Absolutely, the amount of times I read on here that Gills had a loan to repay and we're stuffed yet they reportedly turned down multiple offers on the 31st for Oliver, Dempsey and Tucker whilst bringing one young lad in on loan...doesn't scream of a club in dire straights.
    It appears they have settled their debts to HMRC but still haven't repaid the monitored loan



    https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/embargoes/
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,341
    Airman Brown said:
    cabbles said:
    Airman Brown said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
    I agree it was a scramble, but I don’t think it’s much different for the majority of clubs now (I say think as I have no evidence).  Bar that season Powell got the Jenkinson money and Cash was our benefactor, I think every other window with the exception of RD’s first full one, has been ducking and diving.

    That RD summer when we brought in Bergdych etc seemed well executed, until the majority of them went south.  You could argue this one was more ducking and diving than others and hence more of a scramble, but I wouldn’t know how to compare it to others as I’m not behind the scenes 

    I guess you can say they should’ve made a better job of it given TS’ statements of intent, but I think it’s part not executing properly, part not being set up in the right way, part at the mercy of the market and part understanding how the remnants and the effect Covid has had on the market.

    I give the whole window a thumbs up, but a choppy journey and hopefully lessons have been learnt 

    It will be interesting to compare to the likes of Ipswich who have brought in 18 players and our other promotion rivals as the season plays out.  A good indicator of how much of scramble it has been is the amount of viable first team midfielders we have on our books.  I think it’s too many (I know some are loans), however the amount would seem to suggest that’s where it’s gone a bit awry 
    It’s really not the case that there was a financial splurge in 2011. We did spend the Davison money but fees were probably less than we’ve spent this year. The wages budget was reduced by the spivs and the only reason it is higher in the accounts is because promotion bonuses were paid.

    RD spent decent money, certainly in 2014-2016. He just bought far too many of the wrong players.
    Did it also help getting rid of high earners like Semedo and Racon off the wage bill and replacing them with better players on less money
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  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,733
    edited September 2021
    JohnnyH2 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cabbles said:
    Airman Brown said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Airman Brown said:
    That’s a fairly meaningless stat with respect  - the meaningful comparison would be with previous deadline days not other days during the window. We know clubs sign more players on deadline day. It doesn’t tell you whether this window was different from any other.
    Do we? Because I swear I read many posts from different users complaining about how we were 'scrambling around at the last minute' for signings.

    When in reality what was close to what normally happens in a transfer window happened. 
    Both things are true. The players we signed were probably always on our list but they weren’t necessarily anywhere near the top. It doesn’t preclude them doing well but it is still a scramble.
    I agree it was a scramble, but I don’t think it’s much different for the majority of clubs now (I say think as I have no evidence).  Bar that season Powell got the Jenkinson money and Cash was our benefactor, I think every other window with the exception of RD’s first full one, has been ducking and diving.

    That RD summer when we brought in Bergdych etc seemed well executed, until the majority of them went south.  You could argue this one was more ducking and diving than others and hence more of a scramble, but I wouldn’t know how to compare it to others as I’m not behind the scenes 

    I guess you can say they should’ve made a better job of it given TS’ statements of intent, but I think it’s part not executing properly, part not being set up in the right way, part at the mercy of the market and part understanding how the remnants and the effect Covid has had on the market.

    I give the whole window a thumbs up, but a choppy journey and hopefully lessons have been learnt 

    It will be interesting to compare to the likes of Ipswich who have brought in 18 players and our other promotion rivals as the season plays out.  A good indicator of how much of scramble it has been is the amount of viable first team midfielders we have on our books.  I think it’s too many (I know some are loans), however the amount would seem to suggest that’s where it’s gone a bit awry 
    It’s really not the case that there was a financial splurge in 2011. We did spend the Davison money but fees were probably less than we’ve spent this year. The wages budget was reduced by the spivs and the only reason it is higher in the accounts is because promotion bonuses were paid.

    RD spent decent money, certainly in 2014-2016. He just bought far too many of the wrong players.
    Did it also help getting rid of high earners like Semedo and Racon off the wage bill and replacing them with better players on less money
    The wages budget was better spent, no question, but that was true across the squad. What I’m saying is that it’s a myth there was a big Cash injection in 2011 which funded promotion. What did happen was borrowing to fund the operating loss which would mostly have been there regardless.

    The majority of signings were free transfers (no doubt with signing-on fees) and 12 were in by July 12th, two more on August 1st. Leon Cort and Michael Smith were the only ones around deadline and Yann was as a free agent in September.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,836
    AFKABartram said:
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
    Agreed, there was talk of the divisions being full of teams in desperate financial straits, and that the clubs with money would be able to pick them off. I still wonder what will happen in January though, as there will be a number of players then with 6 months on their contract
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    edited September 2021
    killerandflash said:
    AFKABartram said:
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
    Agreed, there was talk of the divisions being full of teams in desperate financial straits, and that the clubs with money would be able to pick them off. I still wonder what will happen in January though, as there will be a number of players then with 6 months on their contract
    Crewe bundled Dale out the back door on loan with an obligation to buy at the last knockings, in part due to the fact Lowery's agent called their bluff and refused the moves on the table. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    cabbles said:
    Scoham said:



    Which would back up the fact that I think a lot of clubs at our level were at the mercy of the unpredictability of the window, just like us, and perhaps had to change plans from the prospects they wanted earlier on
    Ipswich made 20 of them.
  • 4Real
    4Real Posts: 127
    Airman Brown said:
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    DOUCHER said:
    Window ended up good i would say - i'm reliably informed that TS spent £2m on transfer fees, loan fees and agents fees and we were trying to buy Leko as well but couldn't agree fee - something that might happen further down the line - i'd like to see a big ovation for TS when he next attends the Valley 
    That's one hell of an investment if so.

    He seems a good un does TS.
    It would be but he’d still be well in front on the balance of fees received, which we know to be the case from the published accounts. It’s the other costs that have been the expense.
    Don't be an Arse
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,836
    When are the squad lists submitted to the EFL? Surely they have to be done before this weekend's fixtures, I assume they'll be published too
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    AFKABartram said:
    What did surprise me is with many having taken out government loans there was a strong suggestion of a potential fire sale at a large number of EFL clubs and that many would need to sell a player before the window closed, probably at lower value.

    I didn’t see as many instances of that happening as I thought I would
    I doubt Morecombe wanted to get rid of Lavelle for such a relatively low fee on transfer deadline day, without having a fairly urgent need for some upfront cash.

    Gillingham et al were always able to take on loan players with a maximum weekly wage.
  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,483
    edited September 2021
    Can we please get onto rumours for the January window, maybe we will need a LB....cold turkey setting in..B)
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,371
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Can we please get onto rumours for the January window, maybe we will need a LB....cold turkey setting in..B)
    There was a rumour several pages back we were after two free agents, so no need to wait until January - the thread lives on!
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,894
    pretty sure a left back will be a free agent and most likely a keeper  
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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    DOUCHER said:
    pretty sure a left back will be a free agent and most likely a keeper  
    Any word who the triallist keeper and left back were on Tuesday afternoon? 
  • chev
    chev Posts: 242

  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,288
    The Cawley has spoken!!
  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,483
    edited September 2021
    ForeverAddickted said:
    The Cawley has spoken!!

     And instantly hopes are rising let's hope they are not dashed as quick....and that is from a glass half full perspective by the way, i have no reason to think that things will not be progressed with freebies, so keep up the good news Rich, we are all listening..  B)
  • Sage
    Sage Posts: 7,277
    Cafc43v3r said:

    JOSH SIMS PLEASE

    & a left back.
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,371
    Sage said:
    Cafc43v3r said:

    JOSH SIMS PLEASE

    & a left back.
    Got to be a left back, but I can’t see that including a 5th winger when a GK and a striker are higher priorities.
  • VFR4life
    VFR4life Posts: 56
    Robbie Brady
    Neil Taylor
    Kean Bryan
    Zeki Fryers
    Brandon Mason

  • Pavoren007
    Pavoren007 Posts: 2,518
    And just when I thought the F5 was about to take a well earned rest…

    LB has to be the priority, then GK, then ST if really necessary, but think we have enough threat for L1 with Stockley, Washington, Leko, Davison, Lee (who can play there, but more naturally a CAM) and Schwartz 🤷🏻‍♂️
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