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Homophobic abuse at today's game (ed - Not Charlton fans)
Comments
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How many songs/ chants are acceptable in 2022?1
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Its the covered endShootersHillGuru said:Far to much is given the tag of “oh it’s just banter” than is acceptable to anyone with half a brain. I find some of the chants absolutely moronic let alone the people chanting them. As for encroachment on to the pitch and throwing bottles at players and wasn’t there an issue recently of a bottle being throw in the north stand ? Ban the morons. We don’t want them.1 -
I did put this huge qualifier in my post because it didn’t sit right with me at the time that the assumption that it was Charlton fans was based off a single Cheltenham fan posting on Twitter.Callumcafc said:Disgusting. If any Charlton fans are found to be involved, they should be getting swift bans. You're not welcome at CAFC.
I was concerned that by raising that point, it may have been interpreted by some as ‘defending homophobia’ just as others are now slamming people being too quick to attack. The nature of internet discourse…
Glad no Charlton fans were involved. Stand by what I said, these three Cheltenham fans are not welcome at CAFC in future and I hope they’re no longer welcome at CTFC either.1 -
So, not Charlton fans?
What am I gonna do with this scaffold I've built now then? I cant really transport it to Cheltenham.8 -
At the game yesterday - my second away this season (Oxford was the other one) - prior to that, Reading away in August 2019 was my first away for nearly 20 years. Didn’t hear any abuse or see any morons at any of those games.fat man on a moped said:Hmmm.. Intending to go to my 1st away game in years when we play Sheff Wed next month with son and his girlfriend who live there. Reading this thread has put me off a bit getting tickets in the away end and potentially end up sitting next to a group of morons. Just don't want the hassle. Will probably get tickets for the home area instead.
Just have to sit on my hands when we score😂1 -
Yes this my view too. Mind you I didn’t think Chuks effort hit the bar so might just be my eyes..JohnnyH2 said:
From my view in the stand it hit him straight in the chestse9addick said:
Nah, think he missed him (thankfully)ricky_otto said:Did the bottle thrower hit his target? If so maybe we should stick him up front.
*Joke*.
https://twitter.com/ctfcofficial/status/1482669207061995523?s=21
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While (I think) we can all agree that abusing someone for their race or sexual orientation is not at all welcome, there is also the reality that "when wine sinks, words swim" and the contents of the heart becomes clear to all when people are drunk. A football ground is a place where many are intoxicated and things aren't pleasant to hear and see. Sometimes really obnoxious.
But banning people from anything should always be an absolute last resort. There is also a danger that we just want to create a very middle class, polite, nice all seated comfy event where everyone knows the social rules of polite society when it's a working class sport for working men and women often people with crap lives, dire working conditions and "the game" on Saturday was always this outlet for working class people to come together and get a release. . This is not an appeal for people to be allowed to abuse others with impunity but it is an appeal to all those woke "tolerant" individuals to be tolerant of ALL people. Not just the ones that are currently in vogue.
To ban someone who is obnoxiously rude does nothing to change the behaviours you don't like. In my experience, obnoxiously rude people are like that because of being around obnoxiously rude people all their lives. They have had awful lives. Surely accepting and involving such people (two things obnoxious people have possibly rarely experienced in their lives) who are obnoxiously rude may go a long way to changing their unwelcome behaviours.6 -
🤦🏻♂️3
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I think your predictive text has had a meltdown 😉Gribbo said:Try saying Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Train Station1 -
Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .2 - Sponsored links:
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Certainly did, and also shouts at their goalkeeper suggesting he was sexually abused by his father when he was a little boy - I mean, call him out saying he is crap keeper etc, but the sexual abuse shouts were plain wrong - unfortunately, such a small away end, that was sold out, coupled with the fact I had a decent standing position where I could see (I’m not the tallest) mean’t I couldn’t move - and before anyone says ‘why didn’t you say anything’, having looked at those saying it, I wasn’t going to get beaten up by pissed up yobs (which having assessed matters, I decided would likely happen)oohaahmortimer said:
Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .7 -
Blimey - that's a sweeping statement in a world containing Piers Morgan, Richard Littlejohn, Rod Liddle and Katie Hopkins...ValleyOfTears said:While (I think) we can all agree that abusing someone for their race or sexual orientation is not at all welcome, there is also the reality that "when wine sinks, words swim" and the contents of the heart becomes clear to all when people are drunk. A football ground is a place where many are intoxicated and things aren't pleasant to hear and see. Sometimes really obnoxious.
But banning people from anything should always be an absolute last resort. There is also a danger that we just want to create a very middle class, polite, nice all seated comfy event where everyone knows the social rules of polite society when it's a working class sport for working men and women often people with crap lives, dire working conditions and "the game" on Saturday was always this outlet for working class people to come together and get a release. . This is not an appeal for people to be allowed to abuse others with impunity but it is an appeal to all those woke "tolerant" individuals to be tolerant of ALL people. Not just the ones that are currently in vogue.
To ban someone who is obnoxiously rude does nothing to change the behaviours you don't like. In my experience, obnoxiously rude people are like that because of being around obnoxiously rude people all their lives. They have had awful lives. Surely accepting and involving such people (two things obnoxious people have possibly rarely experienced in their lives) who are obnoxiously rude may go a long way to changing their unwelcome behaviours.
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I am pondering the idea that if I as a man approaching 70 would get beaten up by pissed up yobs if I called them out as abusive fellow fans, then the alternative is to shuffle feet and look away.
And that then seems to give unchecked licence for the vile to be more vile.
If I got the shit kicked out of me I fantasise that I could at least get one dig in before I go down, and it is they who will be DNA’d and have a criminal record for life.
It is easy to say all that right now as I have not yet been in the situation where others implore ‘leave it, leave it, it’s not worth it’, but I wonder where the tipping point where it is worth it comes.0 -
Thing is Seth, I can’t believe for one minute that if you or I piped up & confronted these eejits (70yr old male, 52yr old female) & they tried to larrup us, that others wouldn’t come to our aid?
Or have I watched too many Marvel movies? 🤷♀️2 -
A small number of Charlton fans around me were hurling abuse at the Cheltenham keeper the whole second half which is part and parcel of the game but a few comments directed his way definitely bordered on being homophobic0
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Not quite 70 but I know what you mean.
I wouldn’t expect aid, but of course hope for it.
Sometimes I feel a stand has to be taken, even if you’re the only one, and in peril.1 -
I wish we had a ‘sad’ button 😞follett said:A small number of Charlton fans around me were hurling abuse at the Cheltenham keeper the whole second half which is part and parcel of the game but a few comments directed his way definitely bordered on being homophobic0 -
I think hurling abuse, homophobic or otherwise at opposing players has zero effect and just shows the abusers up for being what they are. Pathetic, ill educated, attention seeking, wanna be macho, morons. There is such a thing as banter in football including baiting opposition players with many witty comments from both fans and players. I’m sure we don’t want to lose that from football. What we do want to lose is spiteful, angry and illegal abuse, along with the perpetrators.1
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I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon0 - Sponsored links:
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It's literally illegal to be homosexual in over 25% of the countries on this planet. It's not as easy as just getting over abuse that discriminates against you. These people get the same phrases and namesw shouted at them on the street for holding hands with the people they love and that's in the UK which is one of the relatively more tolerant societies. And listing 2 people as evidence that it's not offensive to gay people is weak.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon4 -
My two gay friends (who go to Charlton) would.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon
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2-2Arsenetatters said:
My two gay friends (who go to Charlton) would.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon11 -
It’s quite shocking, but sadly not surprising that not one professional male footballer in this country feels able to be open about being gay. That is one reason among many why homophobic chanting and comments need to be stamped out. Imagine feeling that you had to keep a big part of who you are secret from everybody because of fear of what abuse you might get.
I am sure many will recall the chanting that was directed at Nicky Weaver when he played against us after excessive time wasting previously. That wasn’t motivated I am sure by homophobic intentions towards him, but more contempt for how he had behaved on the pitch previously. However some of the nature of the chants may have made anyone gay at the Valley that day feel very uncomfortable. Times change and I am sure you would not hear those chants from many now. But the problem still exists to some extent and should be addressed when it occurs.4 -
Interesting to see where you draw the line on what is and isn’t acceptable in a football stadium. Shouting at someone that they’re crap at their profession is abuse, so why do you think that’s acceptable?Lordflashheart said:
Certainly did, and also shouts at their goalkeeper suggesting he was sexually abused by his father when he was a little boy - I mean, call him out saying he is crap keeper etc, but the sexual abuse shouts were plain wrong - unfortunately, such a small away end, that was sold out, coupled with the fact I had a decent standing position where I could see (I’m not the tallest) mean’t I couldn’t move - and before anyone says ‘why didn’t you say anything’, having looked at those saying it, I wasn’t going to get beaten up by pissed up yobs (which having assessed matters, I decided would likely happen)oohaahmortimer said:
Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .For the record, I’m not saying it isn’t acceptable - I’m not offended by football chants (especially on someone else’s behalf), but it is interesting to see that some versions of abuse are horrifying and others are fine.1 -
Some versions of abuse are unlawful.ElliotCAFC said:
Interesting to see where you draw the line on what is and isn’t acceptable in a football stadium. Shouting at someone that they’re crap at their profession is abuse, so why do you think that’s acceptable?Lordflashheart said:
Certainly did, and also shouts at their goalkeeper suggesting he was sexually abused by his father when he was a little boy - I mean, call him out saying he is crap keeper etc, but the sexual abuse shouts were plain wrong - unfortunately, such a small away end, that was sold out, coupled with the fact I had a decent standing position where I could see (I’m not the tallest) mean’t I couldn’t move - and before anyone says ‘why didn’t you say anything’, having looked at those saying it, I wasn’t going to get beaten up by pissed up yobs (which having assessed matters, I decided would likely happen)oohaahmortimer said:
Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .For the record, I’m not saying it isn’t acceptable - I’m not offended by football chants (especially on someone else’s behalf), but it is interesting to see that some versions of abuse are horrifying and others are fine.5 -
I wrote on another thread that just because one person isn't offended, hurt or alienated by abuse, it does not mean no-one else should be. If you were in a room actually facing someone who has done nothing whatsoever to offend you, and you knew they would be upset by your comments, but decided to have a go at them anyway, to me that would indicate a very worrying state of mind. I said on the other thread that I am very hard to upset, but I am able to have empathy with those who are less thick skinned.follett said:
It's literally illegal to be homosexual in over 25% of the countries on this planet. It's not as easy as just getting over abuse that discriminates against you. These people get the same phrases and namesw shouted at them on the street for holding hands with the people they love and that's in the UK which is one of the relatively more tolerant societies. And listing 2 people as evidence that it's not offensive to gay people is weak.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon8 -
IMHO, and simplifying it; in a nutshell singling someone out for abuse because they are "different" is unacceptable, chanting something that targets or ridicules people who are "different" is unacceptable. Bad language and "rude" chants may offend some, and are not ideal if you want to attract families to The Valley, but as others have said, it is and has been part and parcel of football for a long time - does not make it right, but it is not deliberately offensive to a minority group.ElliotCAFC said:
Interesting to see where you draw the line on what is and isn’t acceptable in a football stadium. Shouting at someone that they’re crap at their profession is abuse, so why do you think that’s acceptable?Lordflashheart said:
Certainly did, and also shouts at their goalkeeper suggesting he was sexually abused by his father when he was a little boy - I mean, call him out saying he is crap keeper etc, but the sexual abuse shouts were plain wrong - unfortunately, such a small away end, that was sold out, coupled with the fact I had a decent standing position where I could see (I’m not the tallest) mean’t I couldn’t move - and before anyone says ‘why didn’t you say anything’, having looked at those saying it, I wasn’t going to get beaten up by pissed up yobs (which having assessed matters, I decided would likely happen)oohaahmortimer said:
Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .For the record, I’m not saying it isn’t acceptable - I’m not offended by football chants (especially on someone else’s behalf), but it is interesting to see that some versions of abuse are horrifying and others are fine.1 -
Gribbo said:
2-2Arsenetatters said:
My two gay friends (who go to Charlton) would.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon
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0-4, imoGribbo said:
2-2Arsenetatters said:
My two gay friends (who go to Charlton) would.Greenhithe said:I sang shit songs as a youth and older. I have invaded pitches. Especially when they gave Arsenal the Arthur Wait and it was raining at Selhurst. And have always accepted swearing and horrible goading of the opposition as part of the package. As for the homophobic abuse I don’t understand the uproar. Get over it, the people singing it are pissed and don’t mean it or are idiots to be pitied. My 2 gay daughters wouldn’t give a shit.
the McCarthyite witch hunt of anyone who doesn’t fit the current template (which by the way I agree with is the right way to be) annoys me.
I do not agree with what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it. I reckon0
