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Give Jacko The Job (He got given it on page 31...)

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  • Jonniesta
    Jonniesta Posts: 1,152
    I don't see how Jacko's contract has any influence on the players' contracts. Prep for the best team for next year. That means signing up a couple now. 
    I can see how it might influence his team selections as it might force him not to experiment with youth, just so he can try and get a league position, but that was a flaw he accepted. Frankly the only young players likely to get a couple of games this season are Deji and Ness anyway. If we see an upturn in performance, even without the results, he'll be in a much stronger position  with Sandgaard, not least because he'll have all the fans behind him. Many more performances like the first 70 minutes against Bolton, and he'll feel some pressure, and rightly it'll be a tougher discussion in the summer. He needs to show he can build a team that will attack and defend to the best of their limited ability, has some flexibility in tactics, and can get us excited. I don’t believe this team is yet good enough to go up. I do believe these players are good enough to do a damn sight better than they did Tuesday night. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    But but, I thought it was a great contract, revolutionary, changing the game, can't reward failure.

    Etc etc
    🙃
    In fairness I doubt many expected unless a complete disaster that he'd be under threat for this summer. 
    But he, or any manager, will always potentially be under threat in the lead up to end of season. Wasn't a fan of how this contract comes across and still not. 

    Too much getting carried away with the Sandgaard effect and Jacko being made perm to look at the potential bucket load of issues that could spring up.

    Managing a team in football isn't really comparable to managing a department in an office, Kevin the head of accounts doesn't have to worry about his star striker being out for months, there's a reason why football clubs aren't run like BJ Accountants... It just doesn't.. really work... admirable, but not very practical.
    I think we should avoid assuming Sandgaard sees a football team manager as requiring the same management as an office team manager. The structure of the contract makes sense when gambling on a brand new manager. I expect Jackson is more secure in his role than his players now believe.  
  • Pelling1993
    Pelling1993 Posts: 6,673
    You cannot judge a manager that hasn't had a summer transfer window to build his team. Must say I do find it confusing that we are sticking with 352 when we clearly don't have the right players to make it work well at the moment 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    If I was Sandgaard I would confirm Jackson for next season now but that’s as far as I would go. Let JJ shape the squad and let him have a run at promotion next season. By Christmas we’ll know with no excuses. I personally don’t want 2 or 3 year contracts handed out. Confirm next season now TS.
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,513
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    But but, I thought it was a great contract, revolutionary, changing the game, can't reward failure.

    Etc etc
    🙃
    In fairness I doubt many expected unless a complete disaster that he'd be under threat for this summer. 
    But he, or any manager, will always potentially be under threat in the lead up to end of season. Wasn't a fan of how this contract comes across and still not. 

    Too much getting carried away with the Sandgaard effect and Jacko being made perm to look at the potential bucket load of issues that could spring up.

    Managing a team in football isn't really comparable to managing a department in an office, Kevin the head of accounts doesn't have to worry about his star striker being out for months, there's a reason why football clubs aren't run like BJ Accountants... It just doesn't.. really work... admirable, but not very practical.
    I think we should avoid assuming Sandgaard sees a football team manager as requiring the same management as an office team manager. The structure of the contract makes sense when gambling on a brand new manager. I expect Jackson is more secure in his role than his players now believe.  

    A comparison for the sake of comparison, I don't think Sandgaard expects the Charlton first team to be run like Kev's team in accounts. 

    BUT

    The potential around issues still remain, we do know it's a contract renewed based on hitting performance targets, performances that largely depend on other people. The players. In an industry littered with variables that don't exist in others. Jackson's (or potentially any other manager if this contract continues) future and renew will come down to if the players have done their job, and if the players aren't good enough, well, not really fair is it...
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    This 'going to the press to get what I want' attitude from Jackson I'm not a fan of. 

    This isn't the first time he's done it and won't be the last. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    But but, I thought it was a great contract, revolutionary, changing the game, can't reward failure.

    Etc etc
    🙃
    In fairness I doubt many expected unless a complete disaster that he'd be under threat for this summer. 
    But he, or any manager, will always potentially be under threat in the lead up to end of season. Wasn't a fan of how this contract comes across and still not. 

    Too much getting carried away with the Sandgaard effect and Jacko being made perm to look at the potential bucket load of issues that could spring up.

    Managing a team in football isn't really comparable to managing a department in an office, Kevin the head of accounts doesn't have to worry about his star striker being out for months, there's a reason why football clubs aren't run like BJ Accountants... It just doesn't.. really work... admirable, but not very practical.
    I think we should avoid assuming Sandgaard sees a football team manager as requiring the same management as an office team manager. The structure of the contract makes sense when gambling on a brand new manager. I expect Jackson is more secure in his role than his players now believe.  

    A comparison for the sake of comparison, I don't think Sandgaard expects the Charlton first team to be run like Kev's team in accounts. 

    BUT

    The potential around issues still remain, we do know it's a contract renewed based on hitting performance targets, performances that largely depend on other people. The players. In an industry littered with variables that don't exist in others. Jackson's (or potentially any other manager if this contract continues) future and renew will come down to if the players have done their job, and if the players aren't good enough, well, not really fair is it...
    I think we would all expect a Charlton team in the third tier to be right up there and challenging. Promotion of course can’t be guaranteed but anything less than top six is abject failure. A Charlton squad will be resourced as one of the better in league one and I’m willing to bet in the top six. Jackson needs to prove he can achieve that minimum expected. He deserves next season but I’ll reserve judgment beyond that. 
  • AdTheAddicK
    AdTheAddicK Posts: 3,379
    SELR_addicks said:
    This 'going to the press to get what I want' attitude from Jackson I'm not a fan of. 

    This isn't the first time he's done it and won't be the last. 
    Exactly how I see it. TS doesn't deserve that, not after it was a deal they both agreed with. 
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,811
    JohnnyH2 said:
    On the one hand Jacko signed the contract so he needs to accept it 

    BUT

    After the summer transfer window that was nothing short of daft bringing in so many players close to the deadline and having such a threadbare squad available for the 1st game of the season, the fault for this season lies squarely with TS/GR/SG/NA.  How much each of those should be blamed for it depends on what happened behind the scenes.

    Jacko had to pick up that car crash with a side in the relegation zone where even a win would not get us out of the bottom four.  He quickly got us away from that issue which make no mistake had NA stayed in charge that is where we would have sat all season based on the evidence in front of us. 

    To now be effectively downplaying what Jacko has achieved is ridiculous, and at any normal club we would be planning for next season NOW with the current manager. 
    This - Jacko needs to be backed for a proper pre-season and full go next season.

    He goes now and then what?, new manager, new ideas, tome to bed in etc and we are in exactly the same position next year.

    be careful what you wish for
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  • Neil_Heaney
    Neil_Heaney Posts: 368
    SELR_addicks said:
    This 'going to the press to get what I want' attitude from Jackson I'm not a fan of. 

    This isn't the first time he's done it and won't be the last. 
    Do we know he "went to the press" and that he wasn't just responding to Thursday press conference questions about out of contract players?

    I'm not sure these quotes have as much agenda as people are making out. He said uncertainty around contracts 'includes himself' and that it will 'need addressing before too long' – which are just facts. It doesn't give you much confidence in terms of the nature of the contract but we knew about that already. Don't think this is necessarily some big play from Jacko. 
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,513
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    But but, I thought it was a great contract, revolutionary, changing the game, can't reward failure.

    Etc etc
    🙃
    In fairness I doubt many expected unless a complete disaster that he'd be under threat for this summer. 
    But he, or any manager, will always potentially be under threat in the lead up to end of season. Wasn't a fan of how this contract comes across and still not. 

    Too much getting carried away with the Sandgaard effect and Jacko being made perm to look at the potential bucket load of issues that could spring up.

    Managing a team in football isn't really comparable to managing a department in an office, Kevin the head of accounts doesn't have to worry about his star striker being out for months, there's a reason why football clubs aren't run like BJ Accountants... It just doesn't.. really work... admirable, but not very practical.
    I think we should avoid assuming Sandgaard sees a football team manager as requiring the same management as an office team manager. The structure of the contract makes sense when gambling on a brand new manager. I expect Jackson is more secure in his role than his players now believe.  

    A comparison for the sake of comparison, I don't think Sandgaard expects the Charlton first team to be run like Kev's team in accounts. 

    BUT

    The potential around issues still remain, we do know it's a contract renewed based on hitting performance targets, performances that largely depend on other people. The players. In an industry littered with variables that don't exist in others. Jackson's (or potentially any other manager if this contract continues) future and renew will come down to if the players have done their job, and if the players aren't good enough, well, not really fair is it...
    I think we would all expect a Charlton team in the third tier to be right up there and challenging. Promotion of course can’t be guaranteed but anything less than top six is abject failure. A Charlton squad will be resourced as one of the better in league one and I’m willing to bet in the top six. Jackson needs to prove he can achieve that minimum expected. He deserves next season but I’ll reserve judgment beyond that. 


    Oh I've got no problem with sacking Jackson off, as long as it's well thought out,  making noises about the contract situation and it's renewal this season is rocking the boat a bit as I'm sure all of us thought it wasn't an issue until next season, I just think it highlights that maybe it's not such a great contract method?type? After all.
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    I love Jacko but if anything the itchiness he's feeling now is kind of an indicator of the effectiveness of the contract he signed. Jackson had no management experience going into this other than a chaotic win against Bristol Rovers as caretaker last season. He then had a very good proper caretaker run and Sandgaard held off on handing him the job for a good while, which I agreed with because there's a long history of a) teams playing to get the caretaker in then reverting to type and b) this squad loving a cheeky collapse. If Jackson is feeling uncertainty about his future then that's because he hasn't been getting the results he was before he was made permanent. The current record is P8 W3 L4 D1. That's not counting exiting the FA Cup and being needlessly dumped out of the pizza cup against a League 2 team. That is not good. If that was Jackson's record as caretaker he would have been gently bumped aside for a different manager with more experience before Christmas. We can't discount what he did as caretaker, but even with our wins recently we haven't seen a squad with a clear idea of what they're doing and a lot of development. Jacko has been backed in the transfer market with some really decent signings, that's his faith from the owner, and he needs to back that support up with results. If he can't then eventually he'll have to go, and all that will be different is Sandgaard won't have to pay out a chunk of potential transfer money on sacking him. If players with contracts running out are getting moody about not knowing if Jackson will be there next season then they might consider turning up every match, getting some points on the board and triggering the extension in the manager's contract. If they're not capable of doing that then there's not much value in extending them anyway. I'm sure it's stressful for Jacko but I can't get too upset about the owner protecting the club's finances with a contract Jackson agreed to
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    Pelling1993 said:
    You cannot judge a manager that hasn't had a summer transfer window to build his team. Must say I do find it confusing that we are sticking with 352 when we clearly don't have the right players to make it work well at the moment 
    Maybe this is the elephant in the room.

    TS has always said he feels our squad was underperforming and that we have strength, depth and talent in the squad, we always knew that he felt Adkins was not getting the best out the players so a complete clear out has never been mentioned.

    JJ hit the ground running but as late things have been going sour. 

    I would love to think the £1.6 for Burstow will be boosted further by another cash injection to give JJ a proper war chest to re-build in the summer however sadly I am not going to hold my breath.

    I think a complete clear out would shine a very poor light on those that selected the players so rather than this he will keep looking for someone that can get a tune out of them and good luck with that.

    We do not even have a solid spine in place to build round, Mac is okay but not great, Famewo is a liability, Innis is an injury liability, Chucks can't play 46 games and if I am honest I don't think we have re-signed the old Chucks we let go which leaves Stockley.

    Something is seriously wrong with our recruitment process and until that is addressed the problems will continue. 
     
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,310
    edited February 2022
    Scoham said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Got to say, I want him replaced end of season. 
    Why? And if it’s going to happen why wait that long?

    If it’s around his supposed lack of “tactical nous” I think that point is overdone, a tactical genius wouldn’t get this squad promoted. The recruitment hasn’t been good enough, that’s the main issue.
    Jackson has no managerial experience and the club of this size needs someone who has been (at least some what recently) a successful manager.

    There's no supposed about it, as anyone who went to Crewe, Bolton and Hartlepool will have seen. He was also the Assistant Manager under Adkins, if you think he had no input into our "tactics" is naive at best. 
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    SELR_addicks said:
    This 'going to the press to get what I want' attitude from Jackson I'm not a fan of. 

    This isn't the first time he's done it and won't be the last. 
    Agree in principle but do we know he's not spoken to TS first and this is a last resort?

    Hopefully JJ hasn't gone straight to the press as first port of call and very unprofessional and disappointing if so regardless of how much he's revered by the fan base.

    However maybe it is a last ditch for clarity after having tried/ exhausted more conventional and professional avenues?

    Only 2 people will truly know.
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    My only concern for now is that when Jacko isn't happy, he reminds me 20% of Bowyer!

    Get back to that KPI of 0.1% Johnnie.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    J BLOCK said:
    Scoham said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Got to say, I want him replaced end of season. 
    Why? And if it’s going to happen why wait that long?

    If it’s around his supposed lack of “tactical nous” I think that point is overdone, a tactical genius wouldn’t get this squad promoted. The recruitment hasn’t been good enough, that’s the main issue.
    Jackson has no managerial experience and the club of this size needs someone who has been (at least some what recently) a successful manager.

    There's no supposed about it, as anyone who went to Crewe, Bolton and Hartlepool will have seen. He was also the Assistant Manager under Adkins, if you think he had no input into our "tactics" is naive at best. 
    Why? The last two managers who got us promoted didn’t have any? 
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    SELR_addicks said:
    This 'going to the press to get what I want' attitude from Jackson I'm not a fan of. 

    This isn't the first time he's done it and won't be the last. 
    Agree in principle but do we know he's not spoken to TS first and this is a last resort?

    Hopefully JJ hasn't gone straight to the press as first port of call and very unprofessional and disappointing if so regardless of how much he's revered by the fan base.

    However maybe it is a last ditch for clarity after having tried/ exhausted more conventional and professional avenues?

    Only 2 people will truly know.
    Its February, hardly last chance saloon time. 

    Seems like Jackson doesn't have faith in his team and wants a guarantee regardless of their performance for the rest of the season that he will get an extension. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    J BLOCK said:
    Scoham said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Got to say, I want him replaced end of season. 
    Why? And if it’s going to happen why wait that long?

    If it’s around his supposed lack of “tactical nous” I think that point is overdone, a tactical genius wouldn’t get this squad promoted. The recruitment hasn’t been good enough, that’s the main issue.
    Jackson has no managerial experience and the club of this size needs someone who has been (at least some what recently) a successful manager.

    There's no supposed about it, as anyone who went to Crewe, Bolton and Hartlepool will have seen. He was also the Assistant Manager under Adkins, if you think he had no input into our "tactics" is naive at best. 
    “We need an experienced manager” gets thrown around a lot but you only need to look at some of the managers we’ve had in the last 10 years to know it’s not true.

    Powell and Bowyer had no experience. Robinson and Adkins both won promotion from this level.

    Take it further and look at the top three, Rotherham’s Paul Warne took them up in his first full season as manager. Wigan’s Leam Richardson is in his second permanent managerial role and his first was a short spell with Accrington years ago. MK Dons Liam Manning is in his first managers job in this country, last season was his first and that was in Belgium.

    There are plenty more examples, this is a league where successful managers tend to be younger.

    Last thing I want is another Adkins style appointment. It doesn’t make success more likely and if they were that good managers like him wouldn’t need to drop down to L1.
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  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited February 2022
    Jacko got this one wrong. Just get your head down, win some games, and see where you are at the end of the season. 

    I very much doubt we're losing out on players as a result of his future being unsure anyway, players don't usually start moving until they come back from holiday. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    Bit more clarification on JJs contract
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    edited February 2022
    Chunes said:
    Jacko got this one wrong. Just get your head down, win some games, and see where you are at the end of the season. 

    I very much doubt we're losing out on players as a result of his future being unsure anyway, players don't usually start moving until they come back from holiday. 
    More the knock on impact I think, getting the current squad members we want to keep signed up before the season ends and starting to line up summer signings by talking to agents etc. It’s a lot to do if it’s all left until May and we’ll end up in the same position making a lot of signings in August.
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,310
    Scoham said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Scoham said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Got to say, I want him replaced end of season. 
    Why? And if it’s going to happen why wait that long?

    If it’s around his supposed lack of “tactical nous” I think that point is overdone, a tactical genius wouldn’t get this squad promoted. The recruitment hasn’t been good enough, that’s the main issue.
    Jackson has no managerial experience and the club of this size needs someone who has been (at least some what recently) a successful manager.

    There's no supposed about it, as anyone who went to Crewe, Bolton and Hartlepool will have seen. He was also the Assistant Manager under Adkins, if you think he had no input into our "tactics" is naive at best. 
    “We need an experienced manager” gets thrown around a lot but you only need to look at some of the managers we’ve had in the last 10 years to know it’s not true.

    Powell and Bowyer had no experience. Robinson and Adkins both won promotion from this level.

    Take it further and look at the top three, Rotherham’s Paul Warne took them up in his first full season as manager. Wigan’s Leam Richardson is in his second permanent managerial role and his first was a short spell with Accrington years ago. MK Dons Liam Manning is in his first managers job in this country, last season was his first and that was in Belgium.

    There are plenty more examples, this is a league where successful managers tend to be younger.

    Last thing I want is another Adkins style appointment. It doesn’t make success more likely and if they were that good managers like him wouldn’t need to drop down to L1.
    I don't disagree with what you've said, but where we are as a club, with what needs to be done, we need an experienced, strong minded manager to come in. Sort the mess out on and off the pitch.

    For me, Jacko isn't that man right now. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    Not convinced we’re in a worse position than when Powell and Bowyer took over. A mid table squad which will be inconsistent and needs rebuilding in the summer.
  • SouthWest_Addicks
    SouthWest_Addicks Posts: 6,307
    Chunes said:
    Jacko got this one wrong. Just get your head down, win some games, and see where you are at the end of the season. 

    I very much doubt we're losing out on players as a result of his future being unsure anyway, players don't usually start moving until they come back from holiday. 
    Usual difference between 10th and 17th is about 7 points come the end of the season. Difference between Jacko staying and not staying could be based on winning some dead rubbers matches. Personally, hope we get to end of March and Jacko has shown he’s the man to TS and we can start planning then.

    Fully expect Jacko to be in charge start of next season.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,273
    SELR_addicks said:
    LargeAddick said:
    we are going to be in League One next season so whether we finish 8th or 13th who cares? Just give Jackson the clarity he needs now and let him rebuild for next season. I'm not convinced he is the answer long term but am willing to give him a bash next season but to do so he needs to build a squad of his players. If he then ultimately fails he can't blame recruitment. He needs clarity now because we should already be talking to players agents now. 
    Tbh I think it's less about league position with TS, it's about performances and whether it looks like Jackson has turned it around. 

    Jackson is getting fidgety because he's worried he's not really performing as well as he expected. 

    Going to the press to whine about an extension, after already going to the press to whine during his interim period doesn't really seem the most professional thing in the world. 
    TS has given him a contract with extension options based entirely on league position (source:TS). But in your view it is not about league position but performances. Righto.

    As for Jackson (1.74 points a game average, 4th in form table since taking over) getting fidgety because he is not performing as well as expected. Really?

    Honestly, we were 2nd bottom, playing dross, more than a win away from safety when he took over. We are not safe with top 4 form.  There has been poor games, particularly when the backbone of our team (Stockley, Innis, Lavelle) have been injured but that is hardly surprising.

    Those critisising Jackson need to get a sense of realism.

    I have no idea of he will be a success long term but the time he has stuck with us, his patience and clear desire to succeed plus his record to date means he gets my 100% support and it would be mental to get rid of him.
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    Scoham said:
    Bit more clarification on JJs contract
    Don't think there's anything wrong with this as a contract, unless the league position is unrealistic (top 6).

    JJ shouldn't be talking to the press about shit like this. Just win games, that's your job.
  • grumpyaddick
    grumpyaddick Posts: 6,596
    edited February 2022
    I thought the big benefit of TS ownership was stability. A hard nosed business man who loved the club,  saved us from extinction and would make sensible long term plans. 

    Cue exit Bowyer, no CEO, family members running  recruitment, appointment of Nigel Akins, signing of Ronnie Schwartz, lowest league position in living memory and guitar solos. Now Jackson seems stressed out by the lack of certainty.   

    I realise it's heresy to say it but I don't see much evidence of stability so far.



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