Is Thomas Driesen Gone? - he popped in on p16, and back out on p26

JamesSeed said:

Richard J said:

This is fascinating. 

My interest in this is as an amateur fan not a professional.

In 2016 I would have shared Airman's view that Andrew Crofts would have been a decent signing based on his performances at the levels above the Division that we were playing. Clearly I was wrong. He even triggered a contract extension but fortunately got picked up by Scunthorpe where he hardly played. 

Similarly I supported the signings of Harry Arter, Joe Ledley ( who was signed in a panic out of the window and pitched straight into action) and Ben Watson based on their previous reputation. All of them were decent players but past their best when we picked them up.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign players in their 30's because the likes of Christian Dailly and Darren Pratley have served us well.

I am interested @ThomasD are there circumstances where you would support the signing of veteran players? 

I’m surprised how many people are treating TD as some sort of scouting guru. 

ThomasD said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

Thomas didn't bring up the article and was right to call it out.

He's also just shown that his being "a block to transfers" could have turned Andrew Crofts, who played one season before being done with us, into John McGinn.

It's almost as if signing past it 30+ year olds is a bad use of funds when your budget is tight. At least we've learned our lesson.... Oh wait.

If I wasnt there to 'block' in the promotion season you would have had Abu Ogogo - who is now playing for Southend in the national league - instead of Josh Cullen. And i'm not even joking. 

There’s truth in that, I remember us being linked with him before we missed out to Coventry. He played a big part in Shrewsbury making the League 1 playoff final.

I’m not convinced that he was first choice ahead of Cullen - Bowyer wanted a big physical midfielder and because we didn’t sign Ogogo we brought in Pratley.

Cullen signed late in the window and I would guess only because Forster-Caskey got injured and was out for the season.

Chunes said:

cafc999 said:

I shall ask again ...

Would be interesting to hear what @ThomasD role in Yann's departure was? No doubt he will deny having anything to do with it.

He did deny it. But BDL said he's lying because he was party to the discussions. He said it was actually Thomas's decision. You'll have to read back. 

lol so BDL -who I dont even know- was attached in the e-mail I had sent to Roland where I say he is one of our best players and we should keep him? Amazing

ThomasD said:

Chunes said:

cafc999 said:

I shall ask again ...

Would be interesting to hear what @ThomasD role in Yann's departure was? No doubt he will deny having anything to do with it.

He did deny it. But BDL said he's lying because he was party to the discussions. He said it was actually Thomas's decision. You'll have to read back. 

lol so BDL -who I dont even know- was attached in the e-mail I had sent to Roland where I say he is one of our best players and we should keep him? Amazing

Thats not what Yann or Katrien said mate. They both told me exactly the same thing a few days apart, which means that someone is telling lies? So, who could be telling lies? you or Katrien and Yann? Are you going to expose them the same way you threatened to expose Airman?

cafc999 said:

Scoham said:

ThomasD said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

Thomas didn't bring up the article and was right to call it out.

He's also just shown that his being "a block to transfers" could have turned Andrew Crofts, who played one season before being done with us, into John McGinn.

It's almost as if signing past it 30+ year olds is a bad use of funds when your budget is tight. At least we've learned our lesson.... Oh wait.

If I wasnt there to 'block' in the promotion season you would have had Abu Ogogo - who is now playing for Southend in the national league - instead of Josh Cullen. And i'm not even joking. 

There’s truth in that, I remember us being linked with him before we missed out to Coventry. He played a big part in Shrewsbury making the League 1 playoff final.

I’m not convinced that he was first choice ahead of Cullen - Bowyer wanted a big physical midfielder and because we didn’t sign Ogogo we brought in Pratley.

Cullen signed late in the window and I would guess only because Forster-Caskey got injured and was out for the season.

Cullen got offered to us by West Ham late in the window as he had done well the season before. 

On a side note I heard that TD turned up at the hotel following the play off win dressed in full tracksuit hoping to celebrate with the players. I wonder how that went?

Point of order Cullen really struggled at Bolton the year before, the year before that he was very good for Bradford.  Anyway.... 

cafc999 said:

Scoham said:

ThomasD said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

Thomas didn't bring up the article and was right to call it out.

He's also just shown that his being "a block to transfers" could have turned Andrew Crofts, who played one season before being done with us, into John McGinn.

It's almost as if signing past it 30+ year olds is a bad use of funds when your budget is tight. At least we've learned our lesson.... Oh wait.

If I wasnt there to 'block' in the promotion season you would have had Abu Ogogo - who is now playing for Southend in the national league - instead of Josh Cullen. And i'm not even joking. 

There’s truth in that, I remember us being linked with him before we missed out to Coventry. He played a big part in Shrewsbury making the League 1 playoff final.

I’m not convinced that he was first choice ahead of Cullen - Bowyer wanted a big physical midfielder and because we didn’t sign Ogogo we brought in Pratley.

Cullen signed late in the window and I would guess only because Forster-Caskey got injured and was out for the season.

Cullen got offered to us by West Ham late in the window as he had done well the season before. 

On a side note I heard that TD turned up at the hotel following the play off win dressed in full tracksuit hoping to celebrate with the players. I wonder how that went?

The summer we were after Agogo then signed Pratley was 2018, the first time we signed Cullen

Anyway, unlike @ThomasD I have work to do.

See yer later Full Kit W##ker

ThomasD said:

cafc999 said:

Scoham said:

ThomasD said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

Thomas didn't bring up the article and was right to call it out.

He's also just shown that his being "a block to transfers" could have turned Andrew Crofts, who played one season before being done with us, into John McGinn.

It's almost as if signing past it 30+ year olds is a bad use of funds when your budget is tight. At least we've learned our lesson.... Oh wait.

If I wasnt there to 'block' in the promotion season you would have had Abu Ogogo - who is now playing for Southend in the national league - instead of Josh Cullen. And i'm not even joking. 

There’s truth in that, I remember us being linked with him before we missed out to Coventry. He played a big part in Shrewsbury making the League 1 playoff final.

I’m not convinced that he was first choice ahead of Cullen - Bowyer wanted a big physical midfielder and because we didn’t sign Ogogo we brought in Pratley.

Cullen signed late in the window and I would guess only because Forster-Caskey got injured and was out for the season.

Cullen got offered to us by West Ham late in the window as he had done well the season before. 

On a side note I heard that TD turned up at the hotel following the play off win dressed in full tracksuit hoping to celebrate with the players. I wonder how that went?

What are you talking about, West Ham didn't offer us anything. We went to them. And i'ts one of the rare cases where you go to a club and you can actually get the player. Most of times its an agent game. 

Yes I was at the party, not in a tracksuit. It's a shame I cant post videos here, great party, great night. It was in the hotel I was staying in.

This is the most telling statement on this thread - a hanger on with a laughably inflated self image, desperately trying to cadge a bit of reflected glory from the people who actually achieved things.

”Abu Ogogo is now playing for Southend in the national League”. And? He’s a pro footballer. 

Morning @ThomasD

I'm one of those who found your original post interesting, and welcome it for that reason. I'm also one of many fans whom you blocked on your Twitter account. I was never in fact 100% sure the account was genuine, so I guess now it's clear that it was/is. I've got two quite separate questions for you. One has been put to you already and your opinion would be valid regardless of your professional status, as it's a huge topic for everyone following the British game.

Do you not accept (and I see no sign of it, despite others already raising this issue before me) that there is a strong human (personal circumstances & personality) element to how well a footballer performs as an individual and as part of a team? If you do, you surely observe that the British game pyramid still places unique emphasis on physical intensity and commitment for the full 90+ minutes, compared to anywhere on the Continent? My main issue with the RD recruitment was that it appeared to arrogantly ignore this dimension. Nego is a great example, given his subsequent career. Your own approach to player assessment seems not to be able to take this into account. That may be OK per se, but somebody in a club must then do that assessment. For me that was where it went wrong, also for the players. In what other international business would young staff just be shipped across to a new country, without prior warning to, let alone agreement with the management, to have to announce themselves as the new right-back, and then be dumped in a hotel in a big and very emotionally tough city to fend for themselves? Don't you think that "scouts" working for Standard would not be the right people to understand, still less assess, this aspect of a player's suitability?

Then, as a recruitment consultant in a business sector where the human element in recruitment is also significant, I have questions about your own career and how you develop it. They may help you understand some of the general hostility towards you. To my surprise, you don't have a LinkedIn profile which would make some of the following questions superfluous:  I learn for the first time that before you arrived here you had a junior scouting role at Standard. How did you get that role? What made you believe this was a career for you?  How exactly did you then transfer across to Charlton? Wasn't this a much more senior role in terms of responsibility? And can you tell us what exactly you have been doing in the last seven years, by which I mean how long were you professionally involved with Charlton, and what other professional positions you've held at this time, up to now?

The reason I ask all this is that people simply did not believe that someone so young had the necessary experience for the apparently influential role you had at Charlton. Do you perhaps understand why? And that brings me to your Twitter account...

What struck me about it at the time, was that it did not in any way set out to showcase your professional skills. It doesn't have to of course, that's better done on LinkedIn, but if somebody didn't know, they would see the account of a young geeky bloke with a passing interest in football, who was very ready to troll people who sought to address him on his professional work. The point being that recruiters for senior positions do try to explore the personal social media accounts of candidates to get a feeling for their personalities..to see if they look likely to fit into the *team*..which brings us back to my previous point. Don't you accept that your Twitter account did you no favours professionally and by the sound of it continues not to do so today? 

BenHaimandBikey said:

JamesSeed said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Interesting read.. and a good insight that is for sure.. But we can all agree scouting and recruiting players has changed a lot over time. And no doubt TD played a role in some of good bits of business and some poor bits.. But fair play coming on here to give an opinion, which I think we should respect him for that.

I don't think our recruitment on paper has been overall bad, but maybe just mismanaged.. We have benefit previously from players coming to us, having made no impact at other clubs. George Dobson for example.

Recommending players I think is the easy part, but getting an understanding of the personality, speaking to people who knows the player, are they happy living in a big city, what could effect them personally.. Who's reasonability is that? That for me is a key!

Then do they really want to come to Charlton, or is it just about money?! 

Didn’t George Dobson save Wimbledon from relegation last season almost single handedly?

Erm, no?

Erm, yes actually, with all due respect. He joined them at the end of January 2021 when they'd lost nine of their previous eleven matches and were firmly in the relegation zone. His second appearance saw a shock win away at Wigan, and from then on things changed. 
In their next ten games they lost only three, drew five and won two. They became harder to beat.
Their last eight matches of the season saw four wins, three draws and just one defeat. They ended four points clear of the relegation places.
My Wimbledon mate said he was key in the turn round in their form, and I'm quite sure that's why we signed him. 
I remember hearing about this when we signed him, and was disappointed to see his early progress at Charlton wasn't what we'd hoped for.
It's odd that TD is still insisting George is League 2 level, when clearly he isn't. This doesn't exactly enhance Thomas's reputation in my opinion. I'd respect him more if he admitted he'd got that wrong. Every team needs a George Dobson. It doesn't matter if he doesn't score many goals.

JamesSeed said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

JamesSeed said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Interesting read.. and a good insight that is for sure.. But we can all agree scouting and recruiting players has changed a lot over time. And no doubt TD played a role in some of good bits of business and some poor bits.. But fair play coming on here to give an opinion, which I think we should respect him for that.

I don't think our recruitment on paper has been overall bad, but maybe just mismanaged.. We have benefit previously from players coming to us, having made no impact at other clubs. George Dobson for example.

Recommending players I think is the easy part, but getting an understanding of the personality, speaking to people who knows the player, are they happy living in a big city, what could effect them personally.. Who's reasonability is that? That for me is a key!

Then do they really want to come to Charlton, or is it just about money?! 

Didn’t George Dobson save Wimbledon from relegation last season almost single handedly?

Erm, no?

Erm, yes actually, with all due respect. He joined them at the end of January 2021 when they'd lost nine of their previous eleven matches and were firmly in the relegation zone. His second appearance saw a shock win away at Wigan, and from then on things changed. 
In their next ten games they lost only three, drew five and won two. They became harder to beat.
Their last eight matches of the season saw four wins, three draws and just one defeat. They ended four points clear of the relegation places.
My Wimbledon mate said he was key in the turn round in their form, and I'm quite sure that's why we signed him. 
I remember hearing about this when we signed him, and was disappointed to see his early progress at Charlton was what we'd hoped for.
It's odd that TD is still insisting George is League 2 level, when clearly he isn't. This doesn't exactly enhance Thomas's reputation in my opinion. I'd respect him more if he admitted he'd got that wrong. Every team needs a George Dobson. It doesn't matter if he doesn't score many goals.

I only saw Dobson one game for Wimbledon and two games for Charlton. Three times he was very bad on the ball. Maybe if I would scout him like a potential signing (watching +- 10 games) I would change my mind and admit I am wrong about him. 

I also think the times of having a '6' that wins the ball and is not so good on the ball and then having a 8 who runs and a 10 for creativity are long gone. Only in England they seem to stick more by it. Your midfield can be so much better when you take players who are more complete. If you have a '6' that is also better on the ball (like Cullen or Bielik are) you have such a advantage playing out of the back. 

AFKABartram said:

JamesSeed said:

Richard J said:

This is fascinating. 

My interest in this is as an amateur fan not a professional.

In 2016 I would have shared Airman's view that Andrew Crofts would have been a decent signing based on his performances at the levels above the Division that we were playing. Clearly I was wrong. He even triggered a contract extension but fortunately got picked up by Scunthorpe where he hardly played. 

Similarly I supported the signings of Harry Arter, Joe Ledley ( who was signed in a panic out of the window and pitched straight into action) and Ben Watson based on their previous reputation. All of them were decent players but past their best when we picked them up.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign players in their 30's because the likes of Christian Dailly and Darren Pratley have served us well.

I am interested @ThomasD are there circumstances where you would support the signing of veteran players? 

I’m surprised how many people are treating TD as some sort of scouting guru. 

I don’t think anyone is. I’m certainly not. Why does everything always have to be exaggerated?

For me, he works in a field I find interesting and, like it or not, he had an involvement in our recruitment over a number of years. He’s shared a great deal in the last 24hrs that I can’t be alone in finding interesting, and it’s entirely down to the individual how much weight or credibility they give it. Some will give zero before they’ve read one word, that’s entirely their choice. 

I didn’t say it wasn’t interesting. Read my earlier post when I welcomed his contributions, in the spirit in which I thought he'd come on here. 
So, like you, I was hoping for some insights, and was happy to hear him fight his corner vis a vis his scouting decisions and record, but instead it's become clear that he's really here to settle old scores, mainly with Airman and Jimmy Stone, it seems. Thomas has stated his case, but has not answered any of the more difficult questions. That's disappointing, to say the least.
To repeatedly accuse Airman of lying is well out of order. If he thinks Airman has got things wrong, then he should say so in a factual and rational way, not in a rather juvenile rant. Same applies to his treatment of Jimmy Stone. If Stone has got things wrong, say so, and let Jimmy defend himself. I'm quite sure that they're not lying, which a serious accusation for people in their positions.
Remember, this is the guy who's been winding up and goading Charlton fans on Twitter, when we lose, which seems unnecessary and unprofessional for someone who still works in the industry.

JamesSeed said:

BenHaimandBikey said:

JamesSeed said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Interesting read.. and a good insight that is for sure.. But we can all agree scouting and recruiting players has changed a lot over time. And no doubt TD played a role in some of good bits of business and some poor bits.. But fair play coming on here to give an opinion, which I think we should respect him for that.

I don't think our recruitment on paper has been overall bad, but maybe just mismanaged.. We have benefit previously from players coming to us, having made no impact at other clubs. George Dobson for example.

Recommending players I think is the easy part, but getting an understanding of the personality, speaking to people who knows the player, are they happy living in a big city, what could effect them personally.. Who's reasonability is that? That for me is a key!

Then do they really want to come to Charlton, or is it just about money?! 

Didn’t George Dobson save Wimbledon from relegation last season almost single handedly?

Erm, no?

Erm, yes actually, with all due respect. He joined them at the end of January 2021 when they'd lost nine of their previous eleven matches and were firmly in the relegation zone. His second appearance saw a shock win away at Wigan, and from then on things changed. 
In their next ten games they lost only three, drew five and won two. They became harder to beat.
Their last eight matches of the season saw four wins, three draws and just one defeat. They ended four points clear of the relegation places.
My Wimbledon mate said he was key in the turn round in their form, and I'm quite sure that's why we signed him. 
I remember hearing about this when we signed him, and was disappointed to see his early progress at Charlton was what we'd hoped for.
It's odd that TD is still insisting George is League 2 level, when clearly he isn't. This doesn't exactly enhance Thomas's reputation in my opinion. I'd respect him more if he admitted he'd got that wrong. Every team needs a George Dobson. It doesn't matter if he doesn't score many goals.

No signing will single-handedly keep you in the division. Dobson was no doubt a factor. He grafts his nuts off for the team, but it's simplistic to suggest that Dobson was the reason they stayed up.
 
Correlation doesn't equal causation. We have no idea how they would have done without Dobson. Joe Piggott goals and the emergency of Assal were big factors in keeping them up. 

TD was being churlish re: Dobson and I think he has shown he's a useful midfielder in a middling league one side. I doubt he'll ever play higher than L1 though.