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Summer 2022 transfer rumours (Gilbey loan confirmed p513, a signing falls through last minute p541)
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Doncaster tried to keep Bostock but on 1st June they announced he’d be leaving. Didn’t realise James Coppinger is their Head of Football Operations.1
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Bostock would make no sense. If he and Marquis are the type of signings we are after then we are in trouble. I thought the stated policy was to buy some young players with potential. Bostock particularly is on the way down with a decent injury record. Please Tommy I have defended you through all the shite but this would be indefensible 🤬🤬🤬5
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Clearly MS was impressed by Bostock’s passing stats. This sounds like our kind of midfielder:13
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Well on the bright side, he'd be an upgrade on Watson but who wouldn't.0
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I have been a fan of John Bostock since he tore us apart for Spurs in a FA Youth Cup game many years ago. He impressed me again when playing for Forest a couple of years ago. He even had a reasonable game for Donny against us last season.
Whilst not quite on Julian Gray, Hayden Mullins and Darren Purse levels we have often been linked with him going back to the Chris Powell era.Thomas Driesden said we tried to bring him in a couple of times. Indeed he was due to sign when we were in the Championship but Toulouse wouldn't complete the paperwork and he stayed at Forest.
I just hope it is not a season too late, so a cautious yes from me.5 -
I've seen Martin mentioned above but I'm pretty sure Gallen has been trying to get Bostock for years. I think on at least two occasions we've thought we were on the cusp of getting him in and that was pre-Sandgaard. If we are in for him and it's not just a Darren Purse-style but of news recycling then I really wouldn't suggest this is someone the black box has pulled out of thin air
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He's a well known player at this level and it's true we've tried to sign him in the past. If the rumour is true then judging him needs to be based on his performances this season, that's far more relevant than how good he was seen to be a few years ago.Garrymanilow said:I've seen Martin mentioned above but I'm pretty sure Gallen has been trying to get Bostock for years. I think on at least two occasions we've thought we were on the cusp of getting him in and that was pre-Sandgaard. If we are in for him and it's not just a Darren Purse-style but of news recycling then I really wouldn't suggest this is someone the black box has pulled out of thin air
Were this season's performances good enough for where we want to be? Being relegated with Doncaster and spending a lot of time out injured doesn't suggest that's the case.
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Bostock is a decent League 1 midfielder. His talent and consequent 'unfulfilling of potential' is pretty well documented. If we had a really strong midfield and were just looking for a player to provide some cover, he'd be worth it on a free so we could use the budget elsewhere. The problem is we already have Gilbey and Morgan who are probably on a similar level, not good enough to start regularly. So would be a pointless one for me.0
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Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.7 - Sponsored links:
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Bostock and Marquis won't be helping us get promoted......15
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Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.1 -
Was about to write a very similar postsam3110 said:
Journeymen League 1 players, as backup players in a promotion chasing squad they'll do a job, but if they're coming in to play more often than not, then we have a real problem on our handssupaclive said:Bostock and Marquis won't be helping us get promoted......0 -
Indeed, will be interesting to see, but overall on the Doncaster forum they seem frustrated he is going:Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.
‘We certainly kept the ball a lot more with Bostock in the team. A fully fit full season 90 minute Bostock is Championship quality IMO. Surely surely will be at Hillsborough next season.’
‘Jon is right. Matt Smith ran a lot because his positional sense was appalling. Bostock was an interception monster because his positioning is elite.’
We need cover for Dobson who I expect is going to be first choice. So, getting a player like Bostock, who is clearly not a donkey and comes with very decent pedigree on a free, frees up wages for other parts of the squad.6 -
Precisely, which makes the fact that he was the marquee CF striker signed last summer quite confusing given NA was 4-2-3-1, though with little pressing. I do think he gets labeled a cart horse a bit too harshly at times, he's not a total lump and he's not woeful on the ball. But the way we're talking about playing doesn't play to his strengths as you point out. It does to Chuks', but you can't build a team and system around Chuks.NabySarr said:
Good summary of the options. Unlike the other 2, Aneke can actually receive the ball with his feet and link play, Stockley isn’t great with his feet and isn’t mobile. To play on your own you need to be a good all round striker which Stockley is not, he’s very good at his strengths but has very clear weaknesses, unless we play to those strengths he won’t be that effectiveSDAddick said:
Agreed, I really rated him at this level but if we're going to three up front he becomes a left winger, and he's pretty pedestrian as a left winger. Him and Stockley as a two should easily be one of the best pairings in the league. But Washington likes to drift wide and play on the shoulder and that can't be your focal point CF and he's shown he doesn't quite have the quality or pace to play as a sort of wide forward cutting in and running in behind.Chunes said:
Salah and Mane aren't strikers, though.ForeverAddickted said:
All of em... Probably easier to ask who their big lump of a target man isChunes said:
Who is Liverpool's pacey striker?golfaddick said:
I would say the right system is one that compliments a pacey striker. Anything else is the wrong system. Or have Pep & Klopp got it wrong. Perhaps we can sell them Stockley & Davison & tell them that 2 big lumps up front is the way to go.ValleyGary said:
A young pacey striker only compliments in the right system. Absolutely pointless in others.golfaddick said:
No, not every one.FishCostaFortune said:
And you’ve interpreted that to mean that every player we buy from now on must be 25 and under or TS is not true to his word on this?golfaddick said:
I'm just reiterating what we keep on being told.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
If we bought a whole squad of players who were 23-25, you'd be moaning we needed more experience!golfaddick said:
And doesnt fit in with the so called " buy young & then they have value if you want to sell them".supaclive said:If Marquis signs there is no high press coming
He's 30. Should be buying players around 23,24,25.
Its like nothing has been learnt over the past 2 years.
Youth
Saleable
For the future.
But then again, when did Sandgaard's actions match his words.
Among many awful takes by you that’s got to be up there with the worst.
But I'd like to see us bring in a young pacey striker, not a 30 year old lump. Start as you mean to go on.
But hey ho.
Who was the pacey one out of Hunt & Mendonca
Just saying that is an oversimplification Golfie. The 433 would definitely work with a pacey striker but it's the right type of pacey striker. Washington could definitely not play that role.
Best of luck to him. I really appreciated his time at the club. But I think it's long past time that we recruited to a system and style of play and if he doesn't fit that, so be it.
Now, does Stockley fit a slick passing, high pressing, mobile forward role? Er, no. Does Aneke? Maybe. If fit and firing I think he has all the raw tools. But it's that first bit that's the problem.
Davison fits the bill as far as mobility goes, and he can finish. But the problem is his tactical nous is poor and his touch maybe poorer. It's why he at times looked good under Adkins as a lone forward, he could just kind of run around and if the ball got lumped to him and he didn't control it we blamed (not wrongly necessarily) not having someone closer to him. But you saw under Jacko when he was asked to play as part of a two, to drop deep, to link up, he looked bad.
He can, to be fair, finish. And maybe as a third or fourth striker at this level he's alright. Maybe he really came on leaps and bounds under BG. But I struggle to see him being much else, and think it's just as if not more likely we sell him on for a small sum.
I do think one top quality at this level forward signing and you've got a good attacking line. Stockers, Chuks, and Davison in reserve is pretty good when you're only playing one at a time. But complete forwards are hard to come by at this level. Plus I don't know that we have the goals in midfield or in the wide areas right now. DJ and Kirk have both scored goals in the past cutting in from the left, but DJ doesn't do that anymore really and Kirk obviously looked out of sorts for ua. CBT could probably get a handful but he's not the most prolific.
I said last summer and again in January that this is a hybrid squad built for three different managers with no clear unifying principle or formation. There's definitely quality in it, but it's still very unclear how it fits together.3 -
I think we signed him because he did well on loan, rather than him fitting our plan as TS was banging on about pressing last summer as well. Kind of sums up the lack of joined up thinking in our recruitment. Moving onto our 4th manager in a short time that will probably want a different type of player will probably just add to the feel of a hybrid squad of players that don't really fit together. I think the only way this season goes well is if we get a good all round striker that will bag 20 goals (or work out a way to play to Stockleys strengths still) and get the best out of Kirk and Fraser who should add the required numbers from midfield if used properlySDAddick said:Precisely, which makes the fact that he was the marquee CF striker signed last summer quite confusing given NA was 4-2-3-1, though with little pressing. I do think he gets labeled a cart horse a bit too harshly at times, he's not a total lump and he's not woeful on the NA. But the way we're talking about playing doesn't play to his strengths as you point out. It does to Chuks', but you can't build a team and system around Chuks.
I do think one top quality at this level forward signing and you've got a good attacking line. Stockers, Chuks, and Davison in reserve is pretty good when you're only playing one at a time. But complete forwards are hard to come by at this level. Plus I don't know that we have the goals in midfield or in the wide areas right now. DJ and Kirk have both scored goals in the past cutting in from the left, but DJ doesn't do that anymore really and Kirk obviously looked out of sorts for ua. CBT could probably get a handful but he's not the most prolific.
I said last summer and again in January that this is a hybrid squad built for three different managers with no clear unifying principle or formation. There's definitely quality in it, but it's still very unclear how it fits together.1 -
Bostock, a player with so much potential that it never quite worked out for many reasons and is why he’s found himself to be at this level.
There is certainly ability there but you would have to question why he’s never done it and what has hindered that performance.
Maybe, and with really positive glasses on, a one year contract, we might be thinking that a pre-existing relationship with Garner and a move back to London might just be what gets him going.3 -
This isn’t an obsession with an ex-player as I thought we were right to release him at the time but I wonder if Garner brings Jonny Williams with him. Important player for Swindon last season and Garner was raving about him on that podcast interview.1
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Unlikely given that Fraser probably fills that role at least as well and Morgan could theoretically cover in a pinch. If one/both of them left it would be theoretically possible but I don't see it being likely given there are more pressing needs in the squad.The Red Robin said:This isn’t an obsession with an ex-player as I thought we were right to release him at the time but I wonder if Garner brings Jonny Williams with him. Important player for Swindon last season and Garner was raving about him on that podcast interview.0 - Sponsored links:
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Ah but last summer we signed Dobson because he had the second most tackles in the league, despite only playing half a season.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.
It's a bloody awful reason to sign a player, the fact he turned out well is more luck than judgement.1 -
I wish there was a stat that took into account where the pass went. I don’t care if someone has a pass completion percentage of 98% if the vast majority are sideways or backwards.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.Players with the most assists may not have great pass completion stats because they’re going for the defence splitting pass that might well be intercepted but if not could lead to a goal.
Pass completion stats are pretty meaningless on their own.6 -
With JFC, Innis and Aneke already signed up do we need another injury prone player in Bostock?
Not to mention the fact that ex Palace players on their way down have all been failures for one reason or another; Soure, Watson, Kai Kai and Butterfield being some of the lousiest business this club has done. Innis and Williams the best but still ultimately failures due to injuries.1 -
JamesSeed said:
I wish there was a stat that took into account where the pass went. I don’t care if someone has a pass completion percentage of 98% if the vast majority are sideways or backwards.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.Players with the most assists may not have great pass completion stats because they’re going for the defence splitting pass that might well be intercepted but if not could lead to a goal.
Pass completion stats are pretty meaningless on their own.
There is actually, it's called Packing. I assume it's available to us or something similar on whatever scouting platforms we use.
https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/unpacking-packing/2 -
Exactly, the 2 premier league players with the highest pass completion % last season were Laporte and Dias. I'd guess that the vast majority of those were to each other, Ederson or one of the full backs. Obviously you still need to keep the ball as otherwise every defender would have a similar % but ultimately it doesn't mean a huge deal as a standalone figure.JamesSeed said:
I wish there was a stat that took into account where the pass went. I don’t care if someone has a pass completion percentage of 98% if the vast majority are sideways or backwards.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.Players with the most assists may not have great pass completion stats because they’re going for the defence splitting pass that might well be intercepted but if not could lead to a goal.
Pass completion stats are pretty meaningless on their own.3 -
I'd favour Cal the fucking Dragon over Bostock.Scoham said:Clearly MS was impressed by Bostock’s passing stats. This sounds like our kind of midfielder:3 -
That’s the story on why we signed Dobson but it won’t be all we looked at, surely? We didn’t watch any videos of his performances, didn’t look at other stats on his passing, distance covered, interceptions, speak to people to understand his personality etc?Cafc43v3r said:
Ah but last summer we signed Dobson because he had the second most tackles in the league, despite only playing half a season.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.
It's a bloody awful reason to sign a player, the fact he turned out well is more luck than judgement.
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No one has made Bostock a scapegoat. Having doubts about whether a player relegated with Doncaster who also spent a lot of time out injured would be a good signing isn’t scapegoating at all. We already have two players in Inniss and Aneke who struggle to play twice a week, Bostock would likely be another.addick1956 said:
Well said... it is not as though he cannot play so why make a scape goat of him before he arrives and plays.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.4 -
Bostock FFS.
Watson, Innis, Soaure. Is Simon Jordan recommending these players to us as some kind of revenge piss take?
What's Vince Hillaire doing these days? Or John Burridge.4 -
Interesting (and quite complicated). The article ends ‘ Is Packing the future of football analytics? Generously speaking, maybe in spirit, but probably not in practice.’Jac_52 said:JamesSeed said:
I wish there was a stat that took into account where the pass went. I don’t care if someone has a pass completion percentage of 98% if the vast majority are sideways or backwards.Scoham said:
Watson probably had a good passing accuracy rate, at least in 20/21. That's one aspect of a midfielders game, what about the rest of it? We have a limited number of spaces under the squad cap, we need to improve on Morgan, Gilbey etc, not add another decent squad player.FishCostaFortune said:Our owner wants us to play possession based dynamic passing football, it is likely we are going to be bringing in a young progressive manager whose team had the number one stats in the relevant areas in league last season.Why wouldn’t we be linked with a player, on a free, who had the 4th highest pass success rate in the league last year, and by all means is a local lad and player we have looked to sign in the past?
Does not seem that out there a bit of business to me.Players with the most assists may not have great pass completion stats because they’re going for the defence splitting pass that might well be intercepted but if not could lead to a goal.
Pass completion stats are pretty meaningless on their own.
There is actually, it's called Packing. I assume it's available to us or something similar on whatever scouting platforms we use.
https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/unpacking-packing/
Bottom line for me is that I’d much rather have players watched, than pay *too* much attention to stats. You’d certainly hope, or even assume, that if Charlton are using stats to find talent then they’re following up by watching the players concerned actually playing a few games. They have to be.0
