Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

The gate was just over 9,000. I think an unusual number arrived during the first half.

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

Dave2l said:

When is personal responsibility going to occur?

When will sandguard openly admitt the stats don't lie and he's done a shit job?

He thinks the club has been run really badly over the last 20 years....the worst part is now

Would it help?

If player reinforcements in key positions arrive in January, and if he changes his approach 🤣🤣🤣 then that will be his admission. Actions more important than words. 

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

I doubt that would get him off the hook he’s put himself on. We can’t be expected not to respond to him running the club into the ground for fear he won’t like it. That’s not deliverable even if it was desirable. I don’t favour organised protests because I don’t think they will achieve anything, but the numbers (£s) will bring him down anyway unless he adapts, and maybe even then.

golfaddick said:

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

What next to TS not paying the bills anymore  -  Administration. This would mean being deducted points & getting relegated. As getting relegated this season is a possibility anyway you could simply see it as a way of TS leaving the club and CAFC starting anew. 

It might actually be a Godsend. 

What goes up, must come down and vise versa.

Administration may just be a fresh start for everyone.

Rebuilding the destruction of something carries keeping a chunk of significant momentum. We all know that.

It won't be long before Portsmouth get back to the Championship. Remember what happened to them?

They completely crumbled both on and off the pitch 

cabbles said:

J BLOCK said:

swordfish said:

J BLOCK said:

I’m confident his ego will drive him to have a walk round the pitch at some point again soon. Will be in for a wake up call when he does and I’m all for it 

If true that Raelynn has been forced to stay in the States due to the actions of Club employees, I'd take a wild guess and say that he's probably wide awake already.

I’m pretty sure he doesn’t know how the full extent of how the fans feel. 

On here.  I think we also have to take into account we’re only 1000 odd and outside of here, we’ve no idea to what extent the majority of our feelings are replicated.  

It could be similar, but we all do whip each other up on here with momentum given the communal element to the site.

Personally I think it’s a lot more now that are getting a bit fed up, but it’s hard to quantify outside of here as it’s a bit of an echo chamber 

I think you’re right - most are unhappy but the info about staff being treated badly etc is turning the heat up in here even more I think - if we werent t aware of that I don’t think there would be so much venom 

Airman Brown said:

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

I doubt that would get him off the hook he’s put himself on. We can’t be expected not to respond to him running the club into the ground for fear he won’t like it. That’s not deliverable even if it was desirable. I don’t favour organised protests because I don’t think they will achieve anything, but the numbers (£s) will bring him down anyway unless he adapts, and maybe even then.

U don’t favour organised protests airman? - well that’s an honest admission in itself - I think there’s a time and a place for them but it ain’t now 

Dave2l said:

AndyG said:

I think the crowd will be very low today. What with the rail issues, current atmosphere within the club etc it isnt really a game for a big crowd

Might break a record for all time lowest home league game attendance at the valley.

Small local businesses may heavily rely on those 23 days a year where there will be crowds of people present. 

I bet sandguard will blame it on covid peak residue 

Did u not go in the late 70’s and early 80’s ??

golfaddick said:

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

What next to TS not paying the bills anymore  -  Administration. This would mean being deducted points & getting relegated. As getting relegated this season is a possibility anyway you could simply see it as a way of TS leaving the club and CAFC starting anew. 

It might actually be a Godsend. 

How do we go into administration?  Thomas will get nothing if we do.  It's still much more likely we get flogged, again, for £1 than administration.

Airman Brown said:

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

I doubt that would get him off the hook he’s put himself on. We can’t be expected not to respond to him running the club into the ground for fear he won’t like it. That’s not deliverable even if it was desirable. I don’t favour organised protests because I don’t think they will achieve anything, but the numbers (£s) will bring him down anyway unless he adapts, and maybe even then.

It worries me that because TS has made laughable statements using spurious numbers, angry fans might be motivated to prove him wrong. Under RD's ownership there was a collective drive to deprive him of money, which backfired as he won't write off the losses he incurred. If people don't attend due to pricing or product, that's one thing, but if to make the owner look like an idiot, which he doesn't need help with, it's quite another.

I would like to make the point that unfortunately, due to Covid,  TS didn't really benefit as much from a new ownership bounce in attendance numbers as he might have expected because, by the time things were back to normal, so were we, underperforming on the pitch. Well missing out on the playoff spots narrowly anyway, and we've had little to excite us since.

If he bought the Club believing it to be a sleeping giant, I feel he was misled to a degree and under his stewardship we're showing no signs of being raised from our slumbers. 

Ben Garner may well be a better 'football' manager than we are allowed to see.

After we signed him I read up about his career and was particularly struck by events at Bristol City.  He was ultra compliant to the  owner's objectives and it may well have cost him his job.  I think the same thing is happening here.  He has signed on the dotted line and is dancing to Sandgaard's tune. (Apart from Addicks to Victory). 

At Bristol Rovers he said "I felt the priority was building infrastructure and delivering on the football and business model that the club wanted to put in place – even if that meant criticism for me in the short term".

Here's what he said after his sacking: 

"In terms of our remit, we ticked a lot of boxes, we lowered the average age of the squad considerably, generated significant profits in transfer fees and reduced the wage bill. We were growing as a group, with a developing playing identity.The targets given to me of improving infrastructure, creating an identity, and developing young players were all well under way – all alongside a training ground being developed. Unfortunately, after going through that process and putting in an incredible amount of work across the club, the situation changed after seven league games of the new season".

Unless he grows a pair and goes kicking and screaming to Sandgaard with demands of his own I fear this will end just as badly for him.  

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

Ben Garner may well be a better 'football' manager than we are allowed to see.

After we signed him I read up about his career and was particularly struck by events at Bristol City.  He was ultra compliant to the  owner's objectives and it may well have cost him his job.  I think the same thing is happening here.  He has signed on the dotted line and is dancing to Sandgaard's tune. (Apart from Addicks to Victory). 

At Bristol City he said "I felt the priority was building infrastructure and delivering on the football and business model that the club wanted to put in place – even if that meant criticism for me in the short term".

Here's what he said after his sacking: 

"In terms of our remit, we ticked a lot of boxes, we lowered the average age of the squad considerably, generated significant profits in transfer fees and reduced the wage bill. We were growing as a group, with a developing playing identity.The targets given to me of improving infrastructure, creating an identity, and developing young players were all well under way – all alongside a training ground being developed. Unfortunately, after going through that process and putting in an incredible amount of work across the club, the situation changed after seven league games of the new season".

Unless he grows a pair and goes kicking and screaming to Sandgaard with demands of his own I fear this will end just as badly for him.  

The club was actually Bristol Rovers, it was Garner"s first job in charge, he was 39 and a relative unknown.  During that spell he had the COVID-19 lockdown and some extended time out due to a private family matter.

 I'm not sure kicking and screaming will do him much good, but I do expect that we now have a wiser Ben Garner who learnt a lot from that challenging period at Bristol Rovers including how to manage up.

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

swordfish said:

Airman Brown said:

Neither Duchatelet nor Sandgaard have failed to put money into the club, although both spent a lot of money early and then turned the tap off. Both did it badly and failed to get the outcomes they expected from the spending.

Both received significant net transfer income and used that towards covering the operating loss.

it’s clearly true that Sandgaard has under equipped the squad this season and that will likely prove a false economy, but accusing him of being tight is not valid over the longer term.

Demanding more spending isn’t going to solve the problem and isn’t a good look in the context of the club’s finances and League One football. Evidence suggests that he would spend it badly.

For me the problem is TS himself - not that he is a crook or part of a conspiracy but that he isn’t very good at running a football club. But he continues to insist on doing so himself and realistically will for as long as he’s here.

Which is why an increasing number want to oust him now and why I see that banner as a rallying cry for the next fans against the ownership battle to commence. 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Club this time to go down that route, but with a team finding it hard to win games, an inside informant deriding the owner and his family almost daily on twitter now, and the final VOTV in circulation, which, although will be a compelling well researched read as usual, will probably enrage an increasingly disgruntled fan base (not seen it yet, bloody post!), I only expect the disquiet to escalate from here.

As ever, my question to whoever wants him out is, what is the viable alternative? He's paying our bills for now, or has been, so if he gets so pissed off that he stops doing that, what next?

I doubt that would get him off the hook he’s put himself on. We can’t be expected not to respond to him running the club into the ground for fear he won’t like it. That’s not deliverable even if it was desirable. I don’t favour organised protests because I don’t think they will achieve anything, but the numbers (£s) will bring him down anyway unless he adapts, and maybe even then.

It worries me that because TS has made laughable statements using spurious numbers, angry fans might be motivated to prove him wrong. Under RD's ownership there was a collective drive to deprive him of money, which backfired as he won't write off the losses he incurred. If people don't attend due to pricing or product, that's one thing, but if to make the owner look like an idiot, which he doesn't need help with, it's quite another.

I would like to make the point that unfortunately, due to Covid,  TS didn't really benefit as much from a new ownership bounce in attendance numbers as he might have expected because, by the time things were back to normal, so were we, underperforming on the pitch. Well missing out on the playoff spots narrowly anyway, and we've had little to excite us since.

If he bought the Club believing it to be a sleeping giant, I feel he was misled to a degree and under his stewardship we're showing no signs of being raised from our slumbers. 

Not sure this is about “punishing” TS - people are not going because he has overpriced the tickets and the football is poor. Gates were always going to fall because we’d been relegated. They would have increased on 18/19, but the figures last season are screwed by comps/methodology changes.