Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12852880/filing-history

RonnieMoore said:

FAVADDICK said:

These people should write story books … former player told him yeah ok … course he would 

Why would he make it up? He’s not a bs merchant 

robroy said:

RonnieMoore said:

FAVADDICK said:

These people should write story books … former player told him yeah ok … course he would 

Why would he make it up? He’s not a bs merchant 

Why would it be true? TS doesn't own the land to be able to sell it.

There's plenty of sticks to beat the ownership with without making stuff up.

Southbank said:

CAFCsayer said:

J BLOCK said:

Airman Brown said:

SomervilleAddick said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

The only conclusion I can come to with all of this is jacko laid it on the line, said what was needed, TS had decided that wasn’t going to happen, he looked for a cheap manager option who could bring in cheap players and he also cut staff costs, raised ticket prices and will look to find a buyer who hopefully would be fooled into buying the club on some temporary business metrics -  great - more years of shit and more years of looking for a saviour whilst being made apparently impossible by RD owning the grounds - millwall don’t  own fuck all and they’ve got an owner who is willing to fund a decent side - I don’t want to hear any more about these fantasist potential buyers that are always lurking to destabilise things but never stump up when they have the opportunity - they and they’re cheerleaders are partly responsible for putting us in this shit 

The freehold to Millwall’s ground is publicly owned, which is more secure than a private landlord and a common model, especially in Europe. I’d have thought the actual buyers were the fantasists, as experience has shown.

well, you've always stated its virtually 'undevelopable' Airman so you can't ahve it both ways when it suits the argument  

Nothing in London is "undevelopable" but some sites are more difficult than others, which affects the cost, the number and type of units feasible, and hence the value of the land for residential use. Self-evidently a plot of land with good access to main roads and a motorway is likely to be more attractive to a developer than The Valley.

agreed - lets call it unviable and indeed, impossible if the football club owner doesn't quit the valley - so why are these mega rich potential investors so keen to have the ground and training ground - hasn't bothered man city's owners  

For the same reason the ex-directors secured their loans on the land, presumably. In any event, the problem it is giving us is that it opens the door to £1 purchasers because the club itself is worth nothing in a sale.

the bigger problem is it 'appears' to be putting off all these mega rich potential owners - utter nonsense if they were just interested in running a football club  

The training ground has needed substantial sums spent on it to achieve category one status. TS thought he'd found a way to do it cheaper. He hasn't succeeded. No one is spending £10m plus on an asset held on a relatively short lease, so then you've got to find another training ground and start again. Similarly The Valley, which will need investment in line with an owner's ambitions, particularly the Jimmy Seed Stand. Same problem.

Do we know why they were rejected for cat. 1? Was it a facilities issue, or organizational/ staff? I don’t think the reasons were ever released, 

I've been told that TS refused point blank to employ the number of academy staff specified in the regulations, so no matter what he did with buildings he was never going to succeed. This information came from a football source outside the club. I've no reason to think it isn't true, but I can't confirm it.

The man is an idiot. 

I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time

Well, he bought a football team to get it promoted then failed to spend the money on players so the club could get promoted- so he has form in that area.

That isn't strictly true. He spent a fair bit at first but in a stupid way. Yes, he has turned off the taps when some targeted spend to fill a gaping hole was required and may have got results but the bloke is clueless when he throws his money about and clueless when he doesn't. 

MuttleyCAFC said:

Southbank said:

CAFCsayer said:

J BLOCK said:

Airman Brown said:

SomervilleAddick said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

The only conclusion I can come to with all of this is jacko laid it on the line, said what was needed, TS had decided that wasn’t going to happen, he looked for a cheap manager option who could bring in cheap players and he also cut staff costs, raised ticket prices and will look to find a buyer who hopefully would be fooled into buying the club on some temporary business metrics -  great - more years of shit and more years of looking for a saviour whilst being made apparently impossible by RD owning the grounds - millwall don’t  own fuck all and they’ve got an owner who is willing to fund a decent side - I don’t want to hear any more about these fantasist potential buyers that are always lurking to destabilise things but never stump up when they have the opportunity - they and they’re cheerleaders are partly responsible for putting us in this shit 

The freehold to Millwall’s ground is publicly owned, which is more secure than a private landlord and a common model, especially in Europe. I’d have thought the actual buyers were the fantasists, as experience has shown.

well, you've always stated its virtually 'undevelopable' Airman so you can't ahve it both ways when it suits the argument  

Nothing in London is "undevelopable" but some sites are more difficult than others, which affects the cost, the number and type of units feasible, and hence the value of the land for residential use. Self-evidently a plot of land with good access to main roads and a motorway is likely to be more attractive to a developer than The Valley.

agreed - lets call it unviable and indeed, impossible if the football club owner doesn't quit the valley - so why are these mega rich potential investors so keen to have the ground and training ground - hasn't bothered man city's owners  

For the same reason the ex-directors secured their loans on the land, presumably. In any event, the problem it is giving us is that it opens the door to £1 purchasers because the club itself is worth nothing in a sale.

the bigger problem is it 'appears' to be putting off all these mega rich potential owners - utter nonsense if they were just interested in running a football club  

The training ground has needed substantial sums spent on it to achieve category one status. TS thought he'd found a way to do it cheaper. He hasn't succeeded. No one is spending £10m plus on an asset held on a relatively short lease, so then you've got to find another training ground and start again. Similarly The Valley, which will need investment in line with an owner's ambitions, particularly the Jimmy Seed Stand. Same problem.

Do we know why they were rejected for cat. 1? Was it a facilities issue, or organizational/ staff? I don’t think the reasons were ever released, 

I've been told that TS refused point blank to employ the number of academy staff specified in the regulations, so no matter what he did with buildings he was never going to succeed. This information came from a football source outside the club. I've no reason to think it isn't true, but I can't confirm it.

The man is an idiot. 

I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time

Well, he bought a football team to get it promoted then failed to spend the money on players so the club could get promoted- so he has form in that area.

That isn't strictly true. He spent a fair bit at first but in a stupid way. Yes, he has turned off the taps when some targeted spend to fill a gaping hole was required and may have got results but the bloke is clueless when he throws his money about and clueless when he doesn't. 

That's pretty much it in my view Mutley. The sinister bit I have never bought into, I think he's made the mistake of trying run an English football club like an American business, the dismissal of trusted people is straight out of The American book of workers rights and he might find that a tribunal hearing awaits  By his mistakes, interference in playing style and lack of backing his Managers to back his bold words, he has now alienated a large proportion of the supporter base. To polarise his mistakes, we should all be honest and admit if he would have bought a goal scoring forward in by the end of the window then this thread wouldn't exist and team success or failure would be where it should be, in the dressing room.We wouldn't be analysing  his personal fortune and a lot of us would turn a blind eye to the sacking of staff. He continues to make the same mistakes though , see Adkins for Garner's problems and this is costing him dear and losing him any goodwill he rightly earned by saving the club. 

Bailey said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Southbank said:

CAFCsayer said:

J BLOCK said:

Airman Brown said:

SomervilleAddick said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

Airman Brown said:

DOUCHER said:

The only conclusion I can come to with all of this is jacko laid it on the line, said what was needed, TS had decided that wasn’t going to happen, he looked for a cheap manager option who could bring in cheap players and he also cut staff costs, raised ticket prices and will look to find a buyer who hopefully would be fooled into buying the club on some temporary business metrics -  great - more years of shit and more years of looking for a saviour whilst being made apparently impossible by RD owning the grounds - millwall don’t  own fuck all and they’ve got an owner who is willing to fund a decent side - I don’t want to hear any more about these fantasist potential buyers that are always lurking to destabilise things but never stump up when they have the opportunity - they and they’re cheerleaders are partly responsible for putting us in this shit 

The freehold to Millwall’s ground is publicly owned, which is more secure than a private landlord and a common model, especially in Europe. I’d have thought the actual buyers were the fantasists, as experience has shown.

well, you've always stated its virtually 'undevelopable' Airman so you can't ahve it both ways when it suits the argument  

Nothing in London is "undevelopable" but some sites are more difficult than others, which affects the cost, the number and type of units feasible, and hence the value of the land for residential use. Self-evidently a plot of land with good access to main roads and a motorway is likely to be more attractive to a developer than The Valley.

agreed - lets call it unviable and indeed, impossible if the football club owner doesn't quit the valley - so why are these mega rich potential investors so keen to have the ground and training ground - hasn't bothered man city's owners  

For the same reason the ex-directors secured their loans on the land, presumably. In any event, the problem it is giving us is that it opens the door to £1 purchasers because the club itself is worth nothing in a sale.

the bigger problem is it 'appears' to be putting off all these mega rich potential owners - utter nonsense if they were just interested in running a football club  

The training ground has needed substantial sums spent on it to achieve category one status. TS thought he'd found a way to do it cheaper. He hasn't succeeded. No one is spending £10m plus on an asset held on a relatively short lease, so then you've got to find another training ground and start again. Similarly The Valley, which will need investment in line with an owner's ambitions, particularly the Jimmy Seed Stand. Same problem.

Do we know why they were rejected for cat. 1? Was it a facilities issue, or organizational/ staff? I don’t think the reasons were ever released, 

I've been told that TS refused point blank to employ the number of academy staff specified in the regulations, so no matter what he did with buildings he was never going to succeed. This information came from a football source outside the club. I've no reason to think it isn't true, but I can't confirm it.

The man is an idiot. 

I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time

Well, he bought a football team to get it promoted then failed to spend the money on players so the club could get promoted- so he has form in that area.

That isn't strictly true. He spent a fair bit at first but in a stupid way. Yes, he has turned off the taps when some targeted spend to fill a gaping hole was required and may have got results but the bloke is clueless when he throws his money about and clueless when he doesn't. 

That's pretty much it in my view Mutley. The sinister bit I have never bought into, I think he's made the mistake of trying run an English football club like an American business, the dismissal of trusted people is straight out of The American book of workers rights and he might find that a tribunal hearing awaits  By his mistakes, interference in playing style and lack of backing his Managers to back his bold words, he has now alienated a large proportion of the supporter base. To polarise his mistakes, we should all be honest and admit if he would have bought a goal scoring forward in by the end of the window then this thread wouldn't exist and team success or failure would be where it should be, in the dressing room.We wouldn't be analysing  his personal fortune and a lot of us would turn a blind eye to the sacking of staff. He continues to make the same mistakes though , see Adkins for Garner's problems and this is costing him dear and losing him any goodwill he rightly earned by saving the club. 

My brother just texted me and asked if I thought we would win the league if we had bought Haarland. The answer is of course we would. I know it is a silly question but if you make a conservative estimate of 50 goals to the team, and most of the draws would become wins. Of course, back to reality, if we had bought 20 goals in from a half decent striker for the level, a lot of draws would be wins. Maybe not enough to win the league, but we would be up there. Football is as simple as that and Sandgaard doesn't indertsand that basic truth and he probably never will. Of course you have to get your tactics right but take that as a given. 

Southbank said:

It feels as if the life is draining out of the club and its supporters. It is in many ways worse than the Duchalet regime bacause at least many of us were angry and I think that actually helped the manager and players, particularly Bowyer, to inject energy into the whole thing.

Now the prevailing feeling is apathy and hopelessness and that seems also to have communicated itself to the playing side.
Its all pretty grim with no good end in sight.

Our fans have always been the 12th man.

The atmosphere at the valley between the years 2000-2003 was of no comparison. When Charlton scored goals, you'd be lucky if you could still hear anything after. 

Opposition managers, Bobby Robson for example, mentioned the valley being a loud intimidating place in a post match press conference. It wasn't an easy place for any of our opposition.  

Charlton aren't a sleeping giant anymore. It's more of a club that has gradually decayed. It's hard to accurately predict the future, but it's now unlikely to be a bright future! 

I look forward to when sandguard f*cks off

Wait a minute...I might write a song about it 

Callumcafc said:

robroy said:

RonnieMoore said:

FAVADDICK said:

These people should write story books … former player told him yeah ok … course he would 

Why would he make it up? He’s not a bs merchant 

Why would it be true? TS doesn't own the land to be able to sell it.

There's plenty of sticks to beat the ownership with without making stuff up.

Maybe he believes the conspiracy theory that TS and RD are working together?

benjest1989 said:

He's just skint. Sold shares in his company when it was at it's peak to raise 27.5 million, has spent at least 15 million on running us so far, with nothing to show for it - probably not easy for him to sell more shares, might not want to, or he just can't 
now raising money any which we he can to pay the bills
With all the crap him and his wife are getting atm, issues with her even coming into the country now, I bet he regrets it all 

Any rumours of interest in buying us? Could do with a glimmer of hope for better times, this current setup is going to kill us 

BigRedEvil said:

Any rumours of interest in buying us? Could do with a glimmer of hope for better times, this current setup is going to kill us 

This - Hopefully someone can provide a bit of hope to this mess 

se9addick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

You look at your results and we have too many draws. Add 20 goals to the mix over a season and draws become wins. It is the same for all levels. Even when I managed at youth level, I knew where I had to bring players in and of course there is no guarantee of success but it points to what you have to do assuming you get the basic details right.

It is why I was advocating Stockton. We could have got him reasonably cheaply and he is a player who may have made a difference. He may not have of course but we didn't bring anybody in. It is easier to bring one player in for us because we have so many career missers in the squad. 

I was hoping we’d sign Stockton. He hasn’t scored a goal in six months though (guess who that was against!) and even though Morecambe are really struggling they don’t seem to have him playing a big part regularly. Weird situation. 

As anyone who pays attention to my posts would know, I could never understand why the prevailing CharltonLife view was that Stockton should be a player we want.

I felt that it presented to a big risk, and I expect he has just reverted back to the mean of the level he would normally play at.

That all being said I also think it’s probably a tad bit unfair to judge him so far this season because he has had a very disrupted season due to the ongoing transfer saga (where it sounds like both parties didn’t come out smelling like roses),

51 pages of Clear Ocean accounts, enjoy.

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I don’t know why I pressed it because I’m not gonna look or understand it but it doesn’t work on ipad