POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic V Fleetwood Town; Saturday 11th February 2023; KO 3.00pm

Came out of the ground feeling utterly tired of the whole thing having arrived with optimism. Bonne is a low quality and i presume, low cost option. Kilkenny started well with but faded out after 20 minutes and isn't looking likely to add to our attacking play. Penny i was hoping had a one off shaky game against bolton and despite linking up quite well with CBT in the first 15 mins, turns out to be utter pony - i've seen enough to know he is worse than what we already have - far worse. Hector has an opportunity now if he can get fit and the other bloke is clearly gonna be a while yet. Claire had a very good game, the rest was same old - terrible crossing and panic in the final third so final ball always rushed or too obvious - lack of quality ultimately. Rak Saki a cut above and we know who's player he is. Game that ended any feint hopes of play offs and maybe reignites a few relegation concerns although unlikely. Thought the bums on seats was quite healthy - people are there just willing the club to turn the corner but when will it happen ? We lose at home to another ex non league set up whilst Millwall move into the champ top 6 - utterly, utterly depressing - best we can hope is their wheel comes off, we get a shiny new rich owner and this time next year, its all looking different - not too much to ask for surely?    

It felt more like a WW1 battle than a game of football and you have to give credit for that to Fleetwood who won fair and square. We have to find a way to stop teams stopping us. I don't think we should rush to make changes as Derby and Sheff Wednesday will certainly try and most likely succeed in outplaying us rather than making the game bitty. 

Of course we need to look at the injury situation. Penney, I hate to say it, but he was rubbish yesterday. Maybe he needs games but he might now miss a few. The sending off was ridiculous in the extreme for whatever reason. It wasn't agressive or put their player at any risk and he wasn't the last man. I would imagine the ref can clear that up when he sees the footage as it felt more like his assistant giving it than him. His assistant was in a worse position but hey ho!

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

I feel gutted tbh from what I saw yesterday. 

The new boys didn't cut the mustard and the debacle of the pivotal centre back position with O'Connell gone, Inniss out already and others who have a tiny handful of games behind them to cover ... I reckon we could be left wide open.

I thought Fleetwood's first goal was a cracking shot, but should have been saved.  Rooney was what 24 yards out, and the ball passed MB within an arm stretch .  As for the second goal - a picture tells a thousand words.  

The other thing that grieves me is the way that football is played in League One.  Most weeks a team (including us) will seek to disrupt the game, time waste, feign injury and use general gamesmanship.  Yeah it may get you over the line to victory, but my god it does the profession no good whatsoever.  It's too late for me as I am serving a life sentence, but if I were a casual observer or new supporter I'd be hard pressed to go again to witness that.  

Phew, I need a lie down 

 

Totally agree about time wasting, and to be fair the ref was the first I can think of at the Valley to try to do something about it. I think he gave the GK a yellow, and an outfield player.But there again didn't he give Fraser one for taking a free kick quickly? 

I’ve not been the most regular visitor to The Valley post-pandemic - but No. 2 blagging some cheap tickets via the NHS Tickets website gave us a suitable nudge to be there. Lured also by the recent upturn in form, yesterday’s performance was bitterly disappointing. Fleetwood are not known for their brilliance, yet we managed make them look like league leaders. 

Don’t often get involved in these conversations but sit with @Simonsen in the East Stand and we both remarked that yesterday was right up there in the top ten (or should it be bottom ten?) of worst games either of us have ever seen, a view later reinforced by @Chippycafc who we bumped into on the train afterwards. 

I know it’s something that’s been said by many others recently but this is by far the worst group of CAFC players I’ve ever seen in getting on for 40 years of regular watching.

Tom_Hovi said:

Don’t often get involved in these conversations but sit with @Simonsen in the East Stand and we both remarked that yesterday was right up there in the top ten (or should it be bottom ten?) of worst games either of us have ever seen, a view later reinforced by @Chippycafc who we bumped into on the train afterwards. 

I know it’s something that’s been said by many others recently but this is by far the worst group of CAFC players I’ve ever seen in getting on for 40 years of regular watching.

It’s really hard to see how the club will escape this downward spiral and I really do fear for the club’s future unless a buyer with money to spend and an understanding of how to sensibly run a football club appears on the horizon. 

Bang on assessment mate, didn't help by a load of gloating Nigels getting on at Clapham Junction on the way home. 

Like you still don't think we have bottomed out yet. 

Chippycafc said:

Tom_Hovi said:

Don’t often get involved in these conversations but sit with @Simonsen in the East Stand and we both remarked that yesterday was right up there in the top ten (or should it be bottom ten?) of worst games either of us have ever seen, a view later reinforced by @Chippycafc who we bumped into on the train afterwards. 

I know it’s something that’s been said by many others recently but this is by far the worst group of CAFC players I’ve ever seen in getting on for 40 years of regular watching.

It’s really hard to see how the club will escape this downward spiral and I really do fear for the club’s future unless a buyer with money to spend and an understanding of how to sensibly run a football club appears on the horizon. 

Bang on assessment mate, didn't help by a load of gloating Nigels getting on at Clapham Junction on the way home. 

Like you still don't think we have bottomed out yet. 

I’d like to think we are at rock bottom because there’s only one way you can go from there but I’m really not sure we have reached that stage yet. 

PragueAddick said:

Chunes said:

It may not have been a sending off, but did Innis really need to dive into that tackle? Could he not have just stayed on his feet. 

Nopé because he thought he was blocking a possible shoť. 

Really @PragueAddick ... From here?



Let him shoot then! 

When you watch it back, the guy is actually slowing down to turn inside or come back outside, so Innis doesn't need to make the challenge at all. If he just stats on his feet he sees him out. 

Also need to point out Sessegnon in the bottom right of this picture below, who is tracking back with their man who won the foul. Their player commits to a full sprint forward and Sess jogs back. You can see where they end up in the above picture. 



Although perhaps Sess through our three defenders wouldn't be brain-dead enough to all go to the ball and leave his man free out wide.

Still images tell a lot of lies. He had to make a challenge, went for the ball, either got it or almost did

A terrible advert for League One football. A game lacking in much skill other than a couple of decent goals.

I thought we looked very down on energy and motivation the whole game. We seemed slow to the ball, slow to anticipate the second ball and generally a bit lethargic. Perhaps off field events had an impact?

The curse of the full-backs continues and we will be down to the bare bones in defence for Tuesday, and possibly the next couple of games. Who could have seen that coming? Thanks Thomas. Please find another buyer asap.

We still could have won the game, but didn't deserve anything from it to be fair.

He won the ball and if the striker cuts inside, he gets a shot off. 

That is a challenge he should make because he would get pelters if he didnt. If it was Ness instead of Innis, would never be the same reaction. 

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

golfaddick said:

You get what you pay for in life & as we don't want to pay for players then we get shit. Loads on here said in the summer & again last month that failing to construt a proper squad means you will struggle. Holden the saviour...???  Thanks to him we now dont have proper cover for the injured full backs & the suspended CH. And then swapped one non goalscoring forward for another. Oh for the days of Killer, Super Clive or Darren Bent. 

Game was proper poo. Can't believe fans cheering at half time just because we scored in injury time. Said it would end like Bolton & I was right. I even predicted 1-2 on the preview thread. But apparently I dont know what I'm talking about. Sky know their facts though. Its now 33 games......and that's under 3 different managers. I'll only praise a manager when they get that hoodoo off our back. I expect Holden to be scuttling off after his chums soon anyway so I wont have to wait long before manager no 4 has a go of turning around a 1 goal deficit.

Wont be going much anymore. Will go Saturday week as I want to see the Champions elect but after that I'll rather put pins in my eyes. Never seen such crap down The Valley in my 50 years supporting the club. 

How sure are you that fewer players/a smaller squad was what the gaffer wanted or what those cutting our resources to the bone in the name of the so called money men were doing regardless of his wishes ? 

I could be wrong but I'm clear on my version of this issue....

Holden's words:-

“Essentially, we went into the start of the window with, in my opinion, a squad that was too big. We were leaving five or six players, sometimes more, at home during away games. At times we were looking to do an 11-v-11 in training - say on a Tuesday with a Saturday game on the horizon - and we were having to tell three or four players that they wouldn’t be involved in that and that they would be training with the U21s.

“We talk about building a culture, a togetherness and a spirit within the group; footballers are competitive animals and they all want to be involved. We’ve now got a group which is tighter in terms of numbers. They will all have a feeling that, if they are not quite starting, they are only one chance away from getting in. That’s important in terms of training, the discipline, the standards, the winning nature and what that looks like. 

“We wanted to lower the numbers and we’ve done that. We’ve brought five players in and eight have left. We needed some balance, which I’ve touched on before. We have that with Matt Penney coming in on that left-hand side and we’ve brought players in who have played at a higher level and who know what it looks like to get promoted and what it takes to get there. I’m not talking about results; I’m talking about daily standards.

https://www.charltonafc.com/news/dean-holden-assesses-winter-window

Didn't someone recently produce a table showing that we now have the same squad size as Sheff Wed?  Unfortunately, there the similarity ends.

The ref was so bad he’d fit in to our team no problem 

Not much danger here. Two attackers against four defenders. Except Sess (bottom right) is about to decide he doesn't want to sprint back. 



A few moments later, shape? Look how comically close Ryan has got to Ness. 



Now he's having to charge over.  



If he thinks to himself: "We've messed up here, let's just take a yellow and end this phase of play," fair enough. But I don't think it's fair to say he absolutely needed to make that challenge. He can stand him up here, or angle his run towards the goal, or perhaps not get caught ball-watching earlier in the phase. 

swordfish said:

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

golfaddick said:

You get what you pay for in life & as we don't want to pay for players then we get shit. Loads on here said in the summer & again last month that failing to construt a proper squad means you will struggle. Holden the saviour...???  Thanks to him we now dont have proper cover for the injured full backs & the suspended CH. And then swapped one non goalscoring forward for another. Oh for the days of Killer, Super Clive or Darren Bent. 

Game was proper poo. Can't believe fans cheering at half time just because we scored in injury time. Said it would end like Bolton & I was right. I even predicted 1-2 on the preview thread. But apparently I dont know what I'm talking about. Sky know their facts though. Its now 33 games......and that's under 3 different managers. I'll only praise a manager when they get that hoodoo off our back. I expect Holden to be scuttling off after his chums soon anyway so I wont have to wait long before manager no 4 has a go of turning around a 1 goal deficit.

Wont be going much anymore. Will go Saturday week as I want to see the Champions elect but after that I'll rather put pins in my eyes. Never seen such crap down The Valley in my 50 years supporting the club. 

How sure are you that fewer players/a smaller squad was what the gaffer wanted or what those cutting our resources to the bone in the name of the so called money men were doing regardless of his wishes ? 

I could be wrong but I'm clear on my version of this issue....

Holden's words:-

“Essentially, we went into the start of the window with, in my opinion, a squad that was too big. We were leaving five or six players, sometimes more, at home during away games. At times we were looking to do an 11-v-11 in training - say on a Tuesday with a Saturday game on the horizon - and we were having to tell three or four players that they wouldn’t be involved in that and that they would be training with the U21s.

“We talk about building a culture, a togetherness and a spirit within the group; footballers are competitive animals and they all want to be involved. We’ve now got a group which is tighter in terms of numbers. They will all have a feeling that, if they are not quite starting, they are only one chance away from getting in. That’s important in terms of training, the discipline, the standards, the winning nature and what that looks like. 

“We wanted to lower the numbers and we’ve done that. We’ve brought five players in and eight have left. We needed some balance, which I’ve touched on before. We have that with Matt Penney coming in on that left-hand side and we’ve brought players in who have played at a higher level and who know what it looks like to get promoted and what it takes to get there. I’m not talking about results; I’m talking about daily standards.

https://www.charltonafc.com/news/dean-holden-assesses-winter-window

Didn't someone recently produce a table showing that we now have the same squad size as Sheff Wed?  Unfortunately, there the similarity ends.

Also, Hector was training with Sheff Wed & they decided that he wasn't good enough for their (lean) squad. We, on the other hand, jettisoned decent fit players & signed Hector. 1 team will be getting promoted this season & the other flirting with relegation. Thanks Scott & Holden.