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India on The Moon
Comments
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I am not a scientific expert, but my understanding of the renewed interest in the Moon is to see if there is ice there.
Presumably the 'south pole' of the Moon is the bit furthest away from the Sun, and the idea is to see if the ice (presumably a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen) could become a conduit to sustain some kind of human existence there.
At least I think that's supposed to be the purpose of all this.0 -
Preferred ‘China In Your Hand’ personally11
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Sounds like we need to close our own space programme down if countries with poverty are banned from having one.5
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Kim Stanley Robinson, a S F author has written a few books around human colonies on the moon, predicated around south pole lunar ice sustaining human life on the rock .. it's long been pretty nigh proven that the moon has large reservoirs of ancient ice .. I suspect if mankind got involved in serious colonisation (fact not fiction), the ice would pretty soon be used up, and there is no more where that came from0
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We send money to India period. Check out these reports.SporadicAddick said:
That's pretty much acknowledged in the quoted I copied and pasted:-Raith_C_Chattonell said:
As ever the whole article needs to be read.SporadicAddick said:
We don't...kentaddick said:
Again, there are hundreds of millions in poverty in india, so why is it odd that we send them aid?LargeAddick said:
odd in that we send aid to assist with eradicating poverty yet they can fund an expedition to the moon costing what I wonder?kentaddick said:
why is it odd? There's hundreds of millions in poverty in india.MrWalker said:It does seem odd that we send India £30 million+ in aid cash, rising to £60 million in a couple of years.
Worldwide aid to India is over $2.5 billion a year.
"The Government decided in 2015 to end direct bilateral financial assistance to the Indian government. This continues to be the position. The decision recognised that India has made substantial development gains and was increasingly able to invest in its own development. Since then, we have concentrated on investments to help secure sustainable private sector growth and to tackle climate change, reflecting the importance of continued economic growth to meet the Sustainable Development Goals in India (average income per head is less than $2,500), and that India is one of a handful of countries whose development choices will determine global climate outcomes".
We have may have ceased direct funding to the Indian Government but aid is still delivered in a more targeted way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/icai-recommendations-on-uk-aid-to-india-uk-government-response/government-response-to-the-independent-commission-on-aid-impacts-review-uk-aid-to-india-march-2023
"Since then, we have concentrated on investments to help secure sustainable private sector growth and to tackle climate change, reflecting the importance of continued economic growth to meet the Sustainable Development Goals in India (average income per head is less than $2,500), and that India is one of a handful of countries whose development choices will determine global climate outcomes".
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They'd have to start using the cheeseLincsaddick said:Kim Stanley Robinson, a S F author has written a few books around human colonies on the moon, predicated around south pole lunar ice sustaining human life on the rock .. it's long been pretty nigh proven that the moon has large reservoirs of ancient ice .. I suspect if mankind got involved in serious colonisation (fact not fiction), the ice would pretty soon be used up, and there is no more where that came from1 -
If as expected there’s ice then the constituent parts of water - Hydrogen and oxygen can be split and there’s a ready made supply of fuel to enable the moon to act as a launch pad for further exploration.seth plum said:I am not a scientific expert, but my understanding of the renewed interest in the Moon is to see if there is ice there.
Presumably the 'south pole' of the Moon is the bit furthest away from the Sun, and the idea is to see if the ice (presumably a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen) could become a conduit to sustain some kind of human existence there.
At least I think that's supposed to be the purpose of all this.3 -
It’s not odd we send them aid, what’s odd is that they need aid money but choose to spend there own money on a space programme. Need to get their priorities straight.kentaddick said:
Again, there are hundreds of millions in poverty in india, so why is it odd that we send them aid?LargeAddick said:
odd in that we send aid to assist with eradicating poverty yet they can fund an expedition to the moon costing what I wonder?kentaddick said:
why is it odd? There's hundreds of millions in poverty in india.MrWalker said:It does seem odd that we send India £30 million+ in aid cash, rising to £60 million in a couple of years.
Worldwide aid to India is over $2.5 billion a year.4 -
My understanding is because DFID or the DFID bit of the FCDO ensure the aid goes to people who need it which cannot be guaranteed 'in-country'MrWalker said:It does seem odd that we send India £30 million+ in aid cash, rising to £60 million in a couple of years.
Worldwide aid to India is over $2.5 billion a year.0 -
Not a net giverbobmunro said:
About the same as India - f*ck all.Cafc43v3r said:
How much international aid does the US get? I have no idea.bobmunro said:India spend about $2b a year on their space programme, Their space industry (they are one of the biggest satellite launchers in the world) is estimated will be worth $25b by 2025.
it is a profitable investment, not a cost.
By comparison the US spend around $90b a year.
India is a net aid giver, not a receiver.0 -
Sponsored links:
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https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/mar/22/emerging-power-india-gives-more-aid-than-it-receives-1584604.htmlPrincessFiona said:
Not a net giverbobmunro said:
About the same as India - f*ck all.Cafc43v3r said:
How much international aid does the US get? I have no idea.bobmunro said:India spend about $2b a year on their space programme, Their space industry (they are one of the biggest satellite launchers in the world) is estimated will be worth $25b by 2025.
it is a profitable investment, not a cost.
By comparison the US spend around $90b a year.
India is a net aid giver, not a receiver.
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Depends how you define aid.SELR_addicks said:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/mar/22/emerging-power-india-gives-more-aid-than-it-receives-1584604.htmlPrincessFiona said:
Not a net giverbobmunro said:
About the same as India - f*ck all.Cafc43v3r said:
How much international aid does the US get? I have no idea.bobmunro said:India spend about $2b a year on their space programme, Their space industry (they are one of the biggest satellite launchers in the world) is estimated will be worth $25b by 2025.
it is a profitable investment, not a cost.
By comparison the US spend around $90b a year.
India is a net aid giver, not a receiver.0 -
Exactly and who is 'defining it'!Hal1x said:
Depends how you define aid.SELR_addicks said:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/mar/22/emerging-power-india-gives-more-aid-than-it-receives-1584604.htmlPrincessFiona said:
Not a net giverbobmunro said:
About the same as India - f*ck all.Cafc43v3r said:
How much international aid does the US get? I have no idea.bobmunro said:India spend about $2b a year on their space programme, Their space industry (they are one of the biggest satellite launchers in the world) is estimated will be worth $25b by 2025.
it is a profitable investment, not a cost.
By comparison the US spend around $90b a year.
India is a net aid giver, not a receiver.
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Struggle to follow this simple us and them aid argument.
India is led by Hindu nationalists in the form of the Modi government. They are running an unequal society. No surprise that nationalistic vanity projects get priority.1 -
UK has a space program. UK has poverty.
India has a space program. India has poverty.
I assume those knocking the latter are also uncomfortable with the former? Not just Johnny foreigner bashing, right?
Personally, I'm not sure what I think. When it comes to potentially extending the existence of our species the cost/benefit calculator is complicated.6 -
The UK has a national health service, state pension schemes and a benefit system?, does India. I dont think the two systems compare.Siv_in_Norfolk said:UK has a space program. UK has poverty.
India has a space program. India has poverty.
I assume those knocking the latter are also uncomfortable with the former? Not just Johnny foreigner bashing, right?
Personally, I'm not sure what I think. When it comes to potentially extending the existence of our species the cost/benefit calculator is complicated.7 -
Not following the logic there, sorryHal1x said:
The UK has a national health service, state pension schemes and a benefit system?, does India. I dont think the two systems compare.Siv_in_Norfolk said:UK has a space program. UK has poverty.
India has a space program. India has poverty.
I assume those knocking the latter are also uncomfortable with the former? Not just Johnny foreigner bashing, right?
Personally, I'm not sure what I think. When it comes to potentially extending the existence of our species the cost/benefit calculator is complicated.0 -
Anyone know what sized carbon footprint this project left on the environment?
Was the spaceship ULEZ compliant?
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Each spaceship launch expels around 1 gigagram (1000 metric tons) of black cardon into the stratosphere. Don't think that's Euro 6 and pretty sure the spaceship is less that 5 years old - this makes no sense at all......1
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It had a catalytic converter fitted mate.Gribbo said:Each spaceship launch expels around 1 gigagram (1000 metric tons) of black cardon into the stratosphere. Don't think that's Euro 6 and pretty sure the spaceship is less that 5 years old - this makes no sense at all......
Problem solved3 -
Sponsored links:
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AFKABartram said:Preferred ‘China In Your Hand’ personally
T'Pau, Guitarist nephew used to live round Barney Close years ago0 -
It did but someone pinched it when it was parked up.blackpool72 said:
It had a catalytic converter fitted mate.Gribbo said:Each spaceship launch expels around 1 gigagram (1000 metric tons) of black cardon into the stratosphere. Don't think that's Euro 6 and pretty sure the spaceship is less that 5 years old - this makes no sense at all......
Problem solved0 -
In the short term no. Longer term if water / ice is found on the moon then it’s a fuel source by where further space exploration can be launched from the moon not earth. A massive positive given the amounts of fuel required to reach escape velocity from earth and how much because of gravity benefits of such launches on the moon.Gribbo said:Each spaceship launch expels around 1 gigagram (1000 metric tons) of black cardon into the stratosphere. Don't think that's Euro 6 and pretty sure the spaceship is less that 5 years old - this makes no sense at all......0 -
About as likely as Elon Musk's people on Mars pipe dream. It would require factories to be set up away from our earth with factories to support factories. In theory, if there is enough will, money and time, it may be possible but I see this whole moon landing thing as at best scientific research and at the other end a bit of flag waving. We are years away from moon bases if at all. We have an abundance of water on our planet but struggle to make water usable and to pipe it where its needed and thats not just a cost issue. As for hydrogen manufacture for fuel, thats a stage up from mining ice on another world, to water production and obviously you would need fuel to do the former to get the latter.ShootersHillGuru said:
If as expected there’s ice then the constituent parts of water - Hydrogen and oxygen can be split and there’s a ready made supply of fuel to enable the moon to act as a launch pad for further exploration.seth plum said:I am not a scientific expert, but my understanding of the renewed interest in the Moon is to see if there is ice there.
Presumably the 'south pole' of the Moon is the bit furthest away from the Sun, and the idea is to see if the ice (presumably a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen) could become a conduit to sustain some kind of human existence there.
At least I think that's supposed to be the purpose of all this.
I watched the landing yesterday and appreciated a fantastic achievement by India who have now joined a very elite club one that Russia failed in despite their resources.1 -
We don't. The Indian Gvernment has refused to take any money from the UK Government for years. As stated above, the money is the UK choosing to invest in the private sector and NGOs.LargeAddick said:
odd in that we send aid to assist with eradicating poverty yet they can fund an expedition to the moon costing what I wonder?kentaddick said:
why is it odd? There's hundreds of millions in poverty in india.MrWalker said:It does seem odd that we send India £30 million+ in aid cash, rising to £60 million in a couple of years.
Worldwide aid to India is over $2.5 billion a year.0 -
As for whether the INidian government should invest in a space programme when there is so much poverty in India (though huge strides ave been made in poverty reduction - down from 55% of the poplation in 2007 to 18% in 2022), that's up to them, surely. If the voters don't like it, then they can elect a Gvernment with different priorities. As far as I could see form the news, it seems to have given the nation a huge boost in morale and pride which I guess will grow the economy by far more than the tiny cost of this mission - $75 million.
Yep, $75 million. That's what you are complaining about.1 -
When I went to India 2017, the gap between the haves and nots was huge.But have to agree a stunning place, with genuinely bright happy people.1
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Stop thinking short termism. Nobody is suggesting it’s an overnight project but I’ve no doubt in 100 years we’ll have bases on the moon and probably mars. Where were we 100 years technologically ? Imagine what might be the advances 100 , 200 , 300 years from now. It will definitely happen.charltonkeston said:
About as likely as Elon Musk's people on Mars pipe dream. It would require factories to be set up away from our earth with factories to support factories. In theory, if there is enough will, money and time, it may be possible but I see this whole moon landing thing as at best scientific research and at the other end a bit of flag waving. We are years away from moon bases if at all. We have an abundance of water on our planet but struggle to make water usable and to pipe it where its needed and thats not just a cost issue. As for hydrogen manufacture for fuel, thats a stage up from mining ice on another world, to water production and obviously you would need fuel to do the former to get the latter.ShootersHillGuru said:
If as expected there’s ice then the constituent parts of water - Hydrogen and oxygen can be split and there’s a ready made supply of fuel to enable the moon to act as a launch pad for further exploration.seth plum said:I am not a scientific expert, but my understanding of the renewed interest in the Moon is to see if there is ice there.
Presumably the 'south pole' of the Moon is the bit furthest away from the Sun, and the idea is to see if the ice (presumably a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen) could become a conduit to sustain some kind of human existence there.
At least I think that's supposed to be the purpose of all this.
I watched the landing yesterday and appreciated a fantastic achievement by India who have now joined a very elite club one that Russia failed in despite their resources.1 -
we have funded a care system and whilst we have poverty there is a basic level of support. If we then have a space programme whoopy do. I would suggest our priorities are in order.Siv_in_Norfolk said:
Not following the logic there, sorryHal1x said:
The UK has a national health service, state pension schemes and a benefit system?, does India. I dont think the two systems compare.Siv_in_Norfolk said:UK has a space program. UK has poverty.
India has a space program. India has poverty.
I assume those knocking the latter are also uncomfortable with the former? Not just Johnny foreigner bashing, right?
Personally, I'm not sure what I think. When it comes to potentially extending the existence of our species the cost/benefit calculator is complicated.
If India doesn't have these things in place, perhaps the money should be directed to raising the lot of their population rather than on vanity projects.3
