If Nathan Jones is all about physicality then why continue with Tyreece Campbell? I don’t think Nathan especially means ‘big aggressive unit’ when he mentions athleticism.
If Nathan Jones is all about physicality then why continue with Tyreece Campbell? I don’t think Nathan especially means ‘big aggressive unit’ when he mentions athleticism.
You answered your own question. Aggressiveness and no-nonsense through the spine of the team & athleticism and directness in wide areas.
TC in particular is still a young player with room to grow and with other clubs interested in him, even if he doesn’t become a first team regular here, it’s better to have him under contract than letting him walk out the door for free.
If we signed piergianni I think he would end up like Lavelle/inniss for us. Looks okay in a team playing no football because he’s dominant in the air but don’t think he is good enough for a promotion team.
Just finished outside the play-offs as captain of a side who most people had down for relegation. The best defender statistically in the league, and overall best player in the league. He was the best defender statistically last season in league 2 and 2nd highest rated overrall just behind Owen Moxon, who will now be a championship player next season.
I think it's genuinely unfair to compare him to the likes of Lavelle and Innis as they couldn't get anywhere near that level of performance or consistency. Sam Lavelle can't even stand out for Carlisle unless for negative reasons, and Innis just got relegated from League 2.
He'd walk into this team, be the best defender, and make us a better team immediately.
Only type of lists you'd find Innis or Lavelle on these tweets for would be most bookings on own goals, honking players
He’d be better than Lavelle/Inniss obviously but I still think we need a better footballer and one that we think can step up to the championship. I don’t think Piergianni is the answer at his age
He dominates the defensive statistics because he plays in a team that does a lot of defending and want the ball in the air as much as possible. He isn’t the best defender in the league (he wouldn’t get near Pompey’s team) just like Tennai Watson isn’t the best right back in the league.
It all depends what kind of team Jones wants to build, if we are just going to brexit ball it like we were this season then he might fit. Personally I think that was just Jones doing what was necessary to get results and stay up, next season I think we will play much more football so we need players that can do that and do the defensive side
Look at the style of football that most of the top 6 sides played this season, none of them would sign Piergianni so I think that says to me it wouldn’t be a good idea. He will go to Rotherham if he leaves Stevanage because they will play a similar way under Evans
But he is the best defender in the league. The stats back it up, the only defender who you could probably argue otherwise (Cashin) has finished just behind him. Tennai Watson, again, like Lavelle and Innis, isn't a good measure. Tennai is the only player in the whoscored tots who doesn't belong, so 1 in 11 is inaccurate and it's probably down to a lack of players in that position/his game time allowed his stats to be higher. If it was based on players who had played 40+ 90 minute games, he wouldn't be anywhere near that list.
a defender does his job and that's an issue? Genuinely don't understand the logic. If you put any of our centre backs in that Stevenage team instead of him, they'd all look like horse shit, and Stevenage would have finished at least a few players lower. Of course I understand that a player that gets more chances to defend, can boost his stats, but that player still has to defend and none of ours really can. It's like discrediting a player who scores lots but scores tap ins and pens, they still had to score it and not everyone can do it consistently.
Just because a top6 side this season didn't have a player, doesn't mean they would pass up the opportunity next season. There will be plenty of players who will be outside the play-offs and be capable of playing in a top6 side. We have proof of that with previous players we have signed.
I'd love a centre back who is comfortable on the ball, scores headers, and looks flashy, but we are a league 1 side, it isn't realistic.
Edit: I also think Shaughnessy and Moore have been really good this season, just not as good as the two mentioned
So how come all the other teams at the top can sign them? Piergianni is better than our centre backs this season, I’m not arguing with that. But he wouldn’t get picked by any of the top 6 teams which is what we are aiming to be, and to do that you need centre backs that can defend and also play
I know our recruitment has been terrible but we shouldn’t be accepting mediocrity. It is easily realistic to sign a CB that can do it all at this level. Pompey signed Poole and Shaughnessy in the same summer so it’s definitely realistic
I wouldn't really class those players as flashy centre backs.
Shaughnessy has had a good season and is one of the better centre backs this season, but before this season he's been a pretty ordinary league 1 centre back, with no real consistency, and just had a standout season now.
Poole was a decent player at Lincoln, but again, not really an eventful player. Both were risk signings. I don't think I've ever heard a neutral fan mention Shaughnessy, and I don't even imagine Pompey expected him to turn out as good as he has.
Regan Poole in 22/23;
45 appearances, 2 goals, 3 assists, 3 yellows, 0 Reds, 64.4 pass success rate, average aerial duals won 3.5 and 2 man of the match awards and average match rating 6.94
Conor Shaughnessy 22/23
14 appearances, 1 goal, 0 assists, 3 yellows, 1 red, pass success rate 50%, average aerial duals 3.2, man of the match 0 and average match rating 6.51
Conor Shaughnessy 21/22. I of course checked this as 22/23 wasn't much to go on.
35 appearances, 3 goals, 2 assists, 2 yellows, 1 red, pass success rate 60.8%, aerial duals average 4.1, 0 man of the match awards, average rating of 6.70.
If you read the Fleetwood fans’ comments you’ll see he is key to them. I expect he only signed a contract to guarantee them a decent fee this summer.
He’s definitely worth a look as we want to improve our mobility and physical presence.
BUT I don’t think he was particularly happy woth the club when he left so Nathan might need to massage his ego a bit.
We did insist on a right to buy back clause in his contract when he left which suggests to me that we did expect him to develop and improve - and would want him back if that happened. I have no idea what the issue may have been, but it does not appear from the outside to have been anything but minor.
I wouldn't describe it as minor at all.
Im not going to say more but it does the club, as it was then, no credit at all.
If it was as bad as you say (or rather don't say) Henry...why would he want to return here...🤷♂️
This may prove a test to Nathan's power of persuasion...
I think it may well be something that stops BW from deciding to rejoin.
However, the other people involved aren't still at the club.
Both signed by Pompey as, imo, risky centre backs. There wasn't much proof either would be capable of mounting a promotion charge, and not much promise either would be ready for the championship. So it seems to me a manager has got the best out of them rather than them being natural, ball playing centre backs.
In 21/22 Shaughnessy was at the heart of a defense that conceded 67, in the same season we conceded 59, and we were awful.
In 22/23 we conceded 66 while Poole was a main stay of Lincoln that only shipped an impressive 47, of course they set out to defend that season, they only scored 47 and were among the bottom 6 in terms of goals scored. Similar argument that people will use against Piergianni that he part of a defensive minded team.
Despite that argument, Stevenage have managed to score 57 and only ship 46. Again impressive numbers.
As a comparison to my last post, Piergiannis final stats for this season:
43 appearances, 4 goals, 2 assist, 8 yellows, 0 Reds, pass success 55%, aerials won on average 8.9, man of the match awards 10, average match rating 7.46.
It's worth noting that both Shaughnessy and Poole didn't even come close to Piergiannis stats despite both playing for, on paper, defensive minded teams that scored less goals. The argument is typically that he plays in a team that has to do a lot of defending, well, so did Lincoln and Burton, and those two didn't stand out anywhere near as well.
Managers play a huge part in how a player can improve, and of course a teams philosophy and playstyle. If Piergianni can drop those kind of numbers consistently in a struggling side, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to replicate what Poole and Shaughnessy achieved and more here.
If he was younger, a championship side would be taking a punt on him, similar to Alfie May.
Both signed by Pompey as, imo, risky centre backs. There wasn't much proof either would be capable of mounting a promotion charge, and not much promise either would be ready for the championship. So it seems to me a manager has got the best out of them rather than them being natural, ball playing centre backs.
In 21/22 Shaughnessy was at the heart of a defense that conceded 67, in the same season we conceded 59, and we were awful.
In 22/23 we conceded 66 while Poole was a main stay of Lincoln that only shipped an impressive 47, of course they set out to defend that season, they only scored 47 and were among the bottom 6 in terms of goals scored. Similar argument that people will use against Piergianni that he part of a defensive minded team.
Despite that argument, Stevenage have managed to score 57 and only ship 46. Again impressive numbers.
As a comparison to my last post, Piergiannis final stats for this season:
43 appearances, 4 goals, 2 assist, 8 yellows, 0 Reds, pass success 55%, aerials won on average 8.9, man of the match awards 10, average match rating 7.46.
It's worth noting that both Shaughnessy and Poole didn't even come close to Piergiannis stats despite both playing for, on paper, defensive minded teams that scored less goals. The argument is typically that he plays in a team that has to do a lot of defending, well, so did Lincoln and Burton, and those two didn't stand out anywhere near as well.
Managers play a huge part in how a player can improve, and of course a teams philosophy and playstyle. If Piergianni can drop those kind of numbers consistently in a struggling side, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to replicate what Poole and Shaughnessy achieved and more here.
If he was younger, a championship side would be taking a punt on him, similar to Alfie May.
Poole was expected to go to a championship side in the summer and was a real coup for Portsmouth, so I definitely wouldn’t describe him as a risky signing. That is very wide of the mark, he was quality at Lincoln
It’s all to do with style, the Piergianni style centre backs only suit quite limited footballing sides. Poole and Shaughnessy were good defenders but also good enough footballers to play for a top league 1 side and therefore will be able to progress to the championship. That’s the kind of signings we need to be making
Don't have an opinion on Piergianni, but I don't think we'll be expecting our CBs to play much passing football next season, so not sure if that's a reason to discount him.
Playing centre back for Stevenage and playing centre back for what will hopefully be a good Charlton side have really different requirements. So I don’t think you can say he will easily replicate how well he is doing at Stevenage if we were to sign him.
He’s a good defender but he’d probably be exposed playing in a higher line and having to be on the ball a lot more
If you read the Fleetwood fans’ comments you’ll see he is key to them. I expect he only signed a contract to guarantee them a decent fee this summer.
He’s definitely worth a look as we want to improve our mobility and physical presence.
BUT I don’t think he was particularly happy woth the club when he left so Nathan might need to massage his ego a bit.
We did insist on a right to buy back clause in his contract when he left which suggests to me that we did expect him to develop and improve - and would want him back if that happened. I have no idea what the issue may have been, but it does not appear from the outside to have been anything but minor.
I wouldn't describe it as minor at all.
Im not going to say more but it does the club, as it was then, no credit at all.
If it was as bad as you say (or rather don't say) Henry...why would he want to return here...🤷♂️
This may prove a test to Nathan's power of persuasion...
I think it may well be something that stops BW from deciding to rejoin.
However, the other people involved aren't still at the club.
That would be a shame, but understandable, old wounds do cut deep sometimes, we can but hope...
The word Jones keeps using is 'athlete'. He's going to want to have a physically capable player in every single position if he can. He'll want strong, defender-first centre backs, fast, fit and strong wing-backs, he'll expect every midfielder including the creative ones to be able to scrap and press and he'll want a target man who can hold the ball up and rough up defenders.
So no different to any other manager I presume. Unless the 23 other managers in League 1 want unfit players with non-defending defenders & midfielders who don't work their socks off.
So from discussing signing players from the Championship we are now getting excited about signing players that got relegated from League 1 😂😂😂😂😂.
Don't change will you. I need the laughs.
One of the problems with relegation is that teams from that league and above will come in and nick your best players. because they are good players. They may have been unavailable at a reasonable price if the team had not been relegated, but now that club can’t hold onto them if they want to leave. It is inconceivable to me that his agent would have let him sign a new contract in January without a relegation release clause. At the end of the day, the only criteria I am interested in, is if he is good enough.
Someone at the club probably said the same thing before the Chuks signing.
The word Jones keeps using is 'athlete'. He's going to want to have a physically capable player in every single position if he can. He'll want strong, defender-first centre backs, fast, fit and strong wing-backs, he'll expect every midfielder including the creative ones to be able to scrap and press and he'll want a target man who can hold the ball up and rough up defenders.
So no different to any other manager I presume. Unless the 23 other managers in League 1 want unfit players with non-defending defenders & midfielders who don't work their socks off.
Some managers prioritise ability and composure on the ball, even in goalkeepers and centre backs. Garner the best recent example with signings like Wollacott, O’Connell and Payne. He wanted players comfortable in possession firstly, Jones wants players with physicality and aggression. Jones wants to make sure we compete before anything else, Garner wanted to make sure we kept the ball.
I’d happily take BSW but if he’s going to be the benchmark or even worse the marquee signing then we’re going nowhere. I don’t see the sense or practicality of Rodwells comment that we’ll be signing from the leagues above but the creamy part of our transfer business needs to be in that vein.
Let’s be honest, how many times have you watched BSW in the last couple of years to form a valid opinion on him? Nobody on this forum can honestly say they watch Fleetwood regularly surely? Just looking at their league position and forming an uneducated opinion.
I think we’d heard that Fleetwood fans had said he was their best player (ok, a low bar), so many would have watched him very closely - also as an ex Charlton player.
I thought he was one of the best players on the pitch against us. He’s technically very good, as well as being strong and quick, and apparently versatile.
But the key thing is that others at the club, including NJ, will have have studied him much more closely than we are able to. So if we are interested in signing him I’d be more than happy based on what I’ve seen and trust in NJ.
Piergianni no thanks!! We need better than that, I am sure we are shopping in a better market now!
Our aim (and therefore our market) is to have the best players in league one. He’s made team of the season playing for Stevenage and being captain of one of the best defences in the league. He also won supporters POTY for the second year in a row.
Fair do if you just don’t think he’s good enough, but he’s definitely in the conversation. We’re desperate to keep Dobbo, what market is he in if this guys not in our market, Stevenage are a better team than us currently.
Piergianni no thanks!! We need better than that, I am sure we are shopping in a better market now!
Our aim (and therefore our market) is to have the best players in league one. He’s made team of the season playing for Stevenage and being captain of one of the best defences in the league. He also won supporters POTY for the second year in a row.
Fair do if you just don’t think he’s good enough, but he’s definitely in the conversation. We’re desperate to keep Dobbo, what market is he in if this guys not in our market, Stevenage are a better team than us currently.
But that's the thing, Piergianni is one of those players where he's in a team that's more than the sum of the parts, and it's clicked, so he looks good. Stevenage have played very effective hoofball all season, nick a goal, destroy the rhythm of the other team, time waste, fake injuries, niggly fouls, the lot. It's pretty much guaranteed that you take him out of that, drop him into a team that wants to be more expansive and is seen as a big club in a small pond by opponents as opposed to a scrappy underdog team punch above their weight, and he won't look the same player.
Early May check in - anyone concerned we haven’t signed anyone yet?
Thought we'd signed Brendan Wiredu...🙄
We going to need more 👀 👀 in Asda and MacDonald's this close season given the expected influx of new talent. Hopefully, some more recognisable players this time as we don't want to be guessing at mystery Conchita Wurst lookalikes seen out dining with Tracey Leaburn 😉 Did we ever find out who that was btw, or did Carl? 😯
Piergianni no thanks!! We need better than that, I am sure we are shopping in a better market now!
Our aim (and therefore our market) is to have the best players in league one. He’s made team of the season playing for Stevenage and being captain of one of the best defences in the league. He also won supporters POTY for the second year in a row.
Fair do if you just don’t think he’s good enough, but he’s definitely in the conversation. We’re desperate to keep Dobbo, what market is he in if this guys not in our market, Stevenage are a better team than us currently.
But that's the thing, Piergianni is one of those players where he's in a team that's more than the sum of the parts, and it's clicked, so he looks good. Stevenage have played very effective hoofball all season, nick a goal, destroy the rhythm of the other team, time waste, fake injuries, niggly fouls, the lot. It's pretty much guaranteed that you take him out of that, drop him into a team that wants to be more expansive and is seen as a big club in a small pond by opponents as opposed to a scrappy underdog team punch above their weight, and he won't look the same player.
Maybe you’re spot on here, but it’s league one at the end of the day, I don’t think it has to be overanalysed. I’m just saying what I see. I guess time will tell because as someone else said he will probably end up at Rotherham and we’ll see what he’s really about.
Piergianni no thanks!! We need better than that, I am sure we are shopping in a better market now!
Our aim (and therefore our market) is to have the best players in league one. He’s made team of the season playing for Stevenage and being captain of one of the best defences in the league. He also won supporters POTY for the second year in a row.
Fair do if you just don’t think he’s good enough, but he’s definitely in the conversation. We’re desperate to keep Dobbo, what market is he in if this guys not in our market, Stevenage are a better team than us currently.
But that's the thing, Piergianni is one of those players where he's in a team that's more than the sum of the parts, and it's clicked, so he looks good. Stevenage have played very effective hoofball all season, nick a goal, destroy the rhythm of the other team, time waste, fake injuries, niggly fouls, the lot. It's pretty much guaranteed that you take him out of that, drop him into a team that wants to be more expansive and is seen as a big club in a small pond by opponents as opposed to a scrappy underdog team punch above their weight, and he won't look the same player.
That’s my concern with a player like him. Being the best defender based on stats is in the context of the team he played in - he had to do a lot of defending in a way that played to his strengths.
He wouldn’t have had to the chance to win as many headers for example playing for Pompey because they had more possession. They wouldn’t have been defending as deep and in numbers as often so he might not have stood out in the same way.
Ipswich’s premier league bound promotion winning team had a mix of former league 2, league 1, championship and freebie former Prem players in it. I knew very few of the names when my lad showed me the list. It serves to prove that it is the cocktail you produce with the right mix of ingredients rather than the quality of ingredients themselves which can make for a promotion winning side. In NJ I trust, am not going to worry about it as long as he is leading on the recruitment now…
Comments
I don’t think Nathan especially means ‘big aggressive unit’ when he mentions athleticism.
TC in particular is still a young player with room to grow and with other clubs interested in him, even if he doesn’t become a first team regular here, it’s better to have him under contract than letting him walk out the door for free.
Shaughnessy has had a good season and is one of the better centre backs this season, but before this season he's been a pretty ordinary league 1 centre back, with no real consistency, and just had a standout season now.
Poole was a decent player at Lincoln, but again, not really an eventful player. Both were risk signings. I don't think I've ever heard a neutral fan mention Shaughnessy, and I don't even imagine Pompey expected him to turn out as good as he has.
Regan Poole in 22/23;
45 appearances, 2 goals, 3 assists, 3 yellows, 0 Reds, 64.4 pass success rate, average aerial duals won 3.5 and 2 man of the match awards and average match rating 6.94
Conor Shaughnessy 22/23
14 appearances, 1 goal, 0 assists, 3 yellows, 1 red, pass success rate 50%, average aerial duals 3.2, man of the match 0 and average match rating 6.51
Conor Shaughnessy 21/22. I of course checked this as 22/23 wasn't much to go on.
35 appearances, 3 goals, 2 assists, 2 yellows, 1 red, pass success rate 60.8%, aerial duals average 4.1, 0 man of the match awards, average rating of 6.70.
However, the other people involved aren't still at the club.
In 21/22 Shaughnessy was at the heart of a defense that conceded 67, in the same season we conceded 59, and we were awful.
In 22/23 we conceded 66 while Poole was a main stay of Lincoln that only shipped an impressive 47, of course they set out to defend that season, they only scored 47 and were among the bottom 6 in terms of goals scored. Similar argument that people will use against Piergianni that he part of a defensive minded team.
Despite that argument, Stevenage have managed to score 57 and only ship 46. Again impressive numbers.
As a comparison to my last post, Piergiannis final stats for this season:
43 appearances, 4 goals, 2 assist, 8 yellows, 0 Reds, pass success 55%, aerials won on average 8.9, man of the match awards 10, average match rating 7.46.
It's worth noting that both Shaughnessy and Poole didn't even come close to Piergiannis stats despite both playing for, on paper, defensive minded teams that scored less goals. The argument is typically that he plays in a team that has to do a lot of defending, well, so did Lincoln and Burton, and those two didn't stand out anywhere near as well.
Managers play a huge part in how a player can improve, and of course a teams philosophy and playstyle. If Piergianni can drop those kind of numbers consistently in a struggling side, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to replicate what Poole and Shaughnessy achieved and more here.
If he was younger, a championship side would be taking a punt on him, similar to Alfie May.
It’s all to do with style, the Piergianni style centre backs only suit quite limited footballing sides. Poole and Shaughnessy were good defenders but also good enough footballers to play for a top league 1 side and therefore will be able to progress to the championship. That’s the kind of signings we need to be making
Not that I think there is any truth to the rumour itself.
Fair do if you just don’t think he’s good enough, but he’s definitely in the conversation. We’re desperate to keep Dobbo, what market is he in if this guys not in our market, Stevenage are a better team than us currently.
He wouldn’t have had to the chance to win as many headers for example playing for Pompey because they had more possession. They wouldn’t have been defending as deep and in numbers as often so he might not have stood out in the same way.
Ipswich’s premier league bound promotion winning team had a mix of former league 2, league 1, championship and freebie former Prem players in it. I knew very few of the names when my lad showed me the list. It serves to prove that it is the cocktail you produce with the right mix of ingredients rather than the quality of ingredients themselves which can make for a promotion winning side. In NJ I trust, am not going to worry about it as long as he is leading on the recruitment now…
Hladky - Salford
Burgess - Accrington Stanley
Chaplin - Barnsley
Burns - Fleetwood
Davis - Leeds
Hirst - Leicester
Morsy - Middlesbrough
Luongo - Free
Tuanzebe - Free