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Pubs, and the demise of.

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  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,619
    Greenhithe said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    HastingsRed said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    HastingsRed said:
    Sorry to see both The Welsh Tavern and The Lads of The Village closed on a recent walk around Stone....only The Bull left in that area now. For those who live in the area how many pubs have disappeared on the main road (London Road/A226) from Dartford to Gravesend? Or how many have actually survived?
    George and Dragon at Swanscombe has closed - Railway Tavern between Stone and Swanscombe long ago became a McDonalds - going into Dartford down East Hill the Woodman has closed, Victory long gone (pizza takeaway now), Newtown Tavern long gone
    Is the Fulwich still open?
    Yes
    It isnt Australian Andy turned it into a hotel and no bar- it was my local for years

    Literally every pub from the George and Dragon to Datrford has gone now.  Railway, Welcome Inn, The Lads, The welsh, the bricklayers, the Tradesmens, the woodman, the victory, the Fulwich, the Belle,  Its ridiculous. 

    I now drink in teh Bird in Hand and god knws how long thats got left.  
    It still has a bar according to its website, so I assumed that the bar is open to the general public - is that not the case ?
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,217
    AFKABartram said:
    Nags Head in Welling has had a big makeover and looks good from pics I’ve seen 
    Just saw the photos online, I'd never have guessed Nags Head, looks good. 
  • KBslittlesis
    KBslittlesis Posts: 8,597
    Greenhithe said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    HastingsRed said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    HastingsRed said:
    Sorry to see both The Welsh Tavern and The Lads of The Village closed on a recent walk around Stone....only The Bull left in that area now. For those who live in the area how many pubs have disappeared on the main road (London Road/A226) from Dartford to Gravesend? Or how many have actually survived?
    George and Dragon at Swanscombe has closed - Railway Tavern between Stone and Swanscombe long ago became a McDonalds - going into Dartford down East Hill the Woodman has closed, Victory long gone (pizza takeaway now), Newtown Tavern long gone
    Is the Fulwich still open?
    Yes
    It isnt Australian Andy turned it into a hotel and no bar- it was my local for years

    Literally every pub from the George and Dragon to Datrford has gone now.  Railway, Welcome Inn, The Lads, The welsh, the bricklayers, the Tradesmens, the woodman, the victory, the Fulwich, the Belle,  Its ridiculous. 

    I now drink in teh Bird in Hand and god knws how long thats got left.  
    Glad the Bird in Hand is still going. Was literally around the corner from our house in Maiden Lane. Mind you last time I was in there was after John Shanahans funeral. He got knocked down outside it. Awful 😞 
  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,651
    usetobunkin said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    LenGlover said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    RaplhMilne said:
    The Orange Tree Dartford end of the Hawley Road has closed down in last couple of weeks. 

    It’s reopened I think
    Talking Dartford, is The Maltshovel still going?
    Certainly, cracking pub - very popular, and well run
    I second that!!  

    Was good years ago so glad to hear still going and still good.
  • housemate
    housemate Posts: 51

    It isnt Australian Andy turned it into a hotel and no bar- it was my local for years

    Literally every pub from the George and Dragon to Datrford has gone now.  Railway, Welcome Inn, The Lads, The welsh, the bricklayers, the Tradesmens, the woodman, the victory, the Fulwich, the Belle,  Its ridiculous. 

    I now drink in teh Bird in Hand and god knws how long thats got left.  
    Glad the Bird in Hand is still going. Was literally around the corner from our house in Maiden Lane. Mind you last time I was in there was after John Shanahans funeral. He got knocked down outside it. Awful 😞 
    Unfortunately, Bird in the Hand is due to close later this month as current landlord has given up the struggle.

     https://www.facebook.com/share/p/pAysWsTVCxrNh2Ze/ 

    My understanding is that a new landlord has been secured & they take over in October but not confirmed.
  • Macronate
    Macronate Posts: 12,890
    housemate said:

    It isnt Australian Andy turned it into a hotel and no bar- it was my local for years

    Literally every pub from the George and Dragon to Datrford has gone now.  Railway, Welcome Inn, The Lads, The welsh, the bricklayers, the Tradesmens, the woodman, the victory, the Fulwich, the Belle,  Its ridiculous. 

    I now drink in teh Bird in Hand and god knws how long thats got left.  
    Glad the Bird in Hand is still going. Was literally around the corner from our house in Maiden Lane. Mind you last time I was in there was after John Shanahans funeral. He got knocked down outside it. Awful 😞 
    Unfortunately, Bird in the Hand is due to close later this month as current landlord has given up the struggle.

     https://www.facebook.com/share/p/pAysWsTVCxrNh2Ze/ 

    My understanding is that a new landlord has been secured & they take over in October but not confirmed.
    Correct, really nice husband and wife.
  • Greenhithe
    Greenhithe Posts: 776
    Macronate said:
    housemate said:

    It isnt Australian Andy turned it into a hotel and no bar- it was my local for years

    Literally every pub from the George and Dragon to Datrford has gone now.  Railway, Welcome Inn, The Lads, The welsh, the bricklayers, the Tradesmens, the woodman, the victory, the Fulwich, the Belle,  Its ridiculous. 

    I now drink in teh Bird in Hand and god knws how long thats got left.  
    Glad the Bird in Hand is still going. Was literally around the corner from our house in Maiden Lane. Mind you last time I was in there was after John Shanahans funeral. He got knocked down outside it. Awful 😞 
    Unfortunately, Bird in the Hand is due to close later this month as current landlord has given up the struggle.

     https://www.facebook.com/share/p/pAysWsTVCxrNh2Ze/ 

    My understanding is that a new landlord has been secured & they take over in October but not confirmed.
    Correct, really nice husband and wife.
    Bloody hell. Didn’t know Adam was leaving. He’s one of us and has Charlton memorabilia on the walls. 

    I best get up there to say good bye. Hope the new couple get in soon. 

    I remember the fella getting knocked over. He was a friend of people I know. 
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,474
    addick19 said:
    One of my locals in Bromley, The Prince Frederick, has been put up for sale, £500,000. Probably go to a developer.
    Why do you say that?
  • addick19
    addick19 Posts: 378
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    One of my locals in Bromley, The Prince Frederick, has been put up for sale, £500,000. Probably go to a developer.
    Not a great development site, I knew someone who looked at it a few years back. Parking is the issue as from memory there’s no land really.
    Rob, there are plenty of sites in the area that have been redeveloped recently; believe me, lack of parking wont stop a developer.
  • Curb_It
    Curb_It Posts: 21,219
    Blimey Nags Head looks great! Next CL drink up?

    The Bull Shooters Hill has a had a good refurb after the awful last one and the pub is thriving. Great garden. For when you get nice weather.., 
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  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,593
    addick19 said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    One of my locals in Bromley, The Prince Frederick, has been put up for sale, £500,000. Probably go to a developer.
    Not a great development site, I knew someone who looked at it a few years back. Parking is the issue as from memory there’s no land really.
    Rob, there are plenty of sites in the area that have been redeveloped recently; believe me, lack of parking wont stop a developer.
    I think Bromley had been a lot stricter on planing re parking the last few years. Not sure who owns the land behind but doesn't appear to be the pub (probably was once upon a time).
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,808
    I got told last night that planning rules around parking are generally that there needs to be available street parking within 1 mile of the development - 1 MILE !!!.

    this is from a mate who owns a local estate agents. He also believes the Welling ground redevelopment is soon to get the go ahead despite them saying 100+ flats with no parking allocated 
  • addick19
    addick19 Posts: 378
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    One of my locals in Bromley, The Prince Frederick, has been put up for sale, £500,000. Probably go to a developer.
    Not a great development site, I knew someone who looked at it a few years back. Parking is the issue as from memory there’s no land really.
    Rob, there are plenty of sites in the area that have been redeveloped recently; believe me, lack of parking wont stop a developer.
    I think Bromley had been a lot stricter on planing re parking the last few years. Not sure who owns the land behind but doesn't appear to be the pub (probably was once upon a time).
    Thing is Rob, the developer keep adjusting their plans and chipping away at the council until they finally agree to one of the proposals. Same thing happened to the Rising Sun pub in Upper Elmer's End road - now a Co-op with flats above.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,593
    addick19 said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    addick19 said:
    One of my locals in Bromley, The Prince Frederick, has been put up for sale, £500,000. Probably go to a developer.
    Not a great development site, I knew someone who looked at it a few years back. Parking is the issue as from memory there’s no land really.
    Rob, there are plenty of sites in the area that have been redeveloped recently; believe me, lack of parking wont stop a developer.
    I think Bromley had been a lot stricter on planing re parking the last few years. Not sure who owns the land behind but doesn't appear to be the pub (probably was once upon a time).
    Thing is Rob, the developer keep adjusting their plans and chipping away at the council until they finally agree to one of the proposals. Same thing happened to the Rising Sun pub in Upper Elmer's End road - now a Co-op with flats above.
    I’m sure you are right, planing laws are set to be relaxed further.

    i guess bluntly it’s a case of housing is in greater need than pubs as peoples habits change and pubs seem to be used a lot less than they once were.
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    Probably pop in to the oak today with kid before football today for a couple, help support
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    i could be wrong but i believe i read something regarding stamping down on developers who mislead with plans, a lot of developers were buying pubs initially saying it will be flats with a bar underneath then after 6 months to a year they claim its unworkable as a pub and change plans for t to be flats/homes purely and of course the council are at a point then when they cant fight it as its a choice between an abandoned building and new homes.
  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,221
    Purelake are just round the corner from the Fred, they know something about pulling down pubs as they 'accidently' demolished the Greyhound in Sydenham and were quite rightly told to rebuild it.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,028
    iaitch said:
    Purelake are just round the corner from the Fred, they know something about pulling down pubs as they 'accidently' demolished the Greyhound in Sydenham and were quite rightly told to rebuild it.
    I bet they done that quickly.
  • clive
    clive Posts: 19,443
    The Guard House pub and restaurant on the Royal Arsenal site in Woolwich is up for sale.
    https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2024/07/14/woolwich-pub-and-restaurant-up-for-sale/
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,028
    edited July 2024

    This one has seen better days but they still have live music.
    I'd not chance it at night though.
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  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,044
    edited July 2024
    clive said:
    The Guard House pub and restaurant on the Royal Arsenal site in Woolwich is up for sale.
    https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2024/07/14/woolwich-pub-and-restaurant-up-for-sale/
    Always felt a bit odd that they were competing with themselves across a few yards at The Dial Arch. 
    Woolwich must be one of the worst hit towns around in terms of lost pubs over the years. So few left now.
  • Valiantphil
    Valiantphil Posts: 6,409
    Saw in the press today that a chain with a dozen or so pubs across SE London is closing them all. 
    I know one of them was in E Dulwich. 
  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,221
    It's Antic, here's the list.

    • The Antelope, Tooting
    • Balham Bowls Club, Balham
    • Clapton Hart, Clapton
    • East Dulwich Tavern, East Dulwich
    • Elephant and Castle Pub, Elephant and Castle
    • Hagen & Hyde, Balham
    • The Sun, Camberwell
    • Gremio de Brixton, Brixton
    • Graveney & Meadow, Tooting Broadway
    • Dogstar, Brixton
    • Tooting Tram & Social, Tooting
    • Red Lion, Leytonstone
    • Coopers, Crystal Palace
  • clive
    clive Posts: 19,443
    iaitch said:
    It's Antic, here's the list.

    • The Antelope, Tooting
    • Balham Bowls Club, Balham
    • Clapton Hart, Clapton
    • East Dulwich Tavern, East Dulwich
    • Elephant and Castle Pub, Elephant and Castle
    • Hagen & Hyde, Balham
    • The Sun, Camberwell
    • Gremio de Brixton, Brixton
    • Graveney & Meadow, Tooting Broadway
    • Dogstar, Brixton
    • Tooting Tram & Social, Tooting
    • Red Lion, Leytonstone
    • Coopers, Crystal Palace
    https://www.thecaterer.com/news/portfolio-of-antic-pubs-and-bars-enter-administration
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,044
    The group that owned the now closed Equitable and I think they were meant to be the ones looking to open a bar within old council offices near the old Plumstead baths.
  • clive
    clive Posts: 19,443
    TelMc32 said:
    The group that owned the now closed Equitable and I think they were meant to be the ones looking to open a bar within old council offices near the old Plumstead baths.

    They formerly operated the Woolwich Equitable which closed last year due to a rent dispute.

    The GPO in Eltham changed hands while Sutton Radio in Lewisham shut up shop.

    This news may also be the final nail in the coffin of plans for a Woolwich pub at the western end of Powis Street.

     https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2024/07/16/pub-group-antic-enters-administration-with-13-sites-up-for-sale/
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Valiantphil said:
    Saw in the press today that a chain with a dozen or so pubs across SE London is closing them all. 
    I know one of them was in E Dulwich. 
    I don’t think the pubs are actually closing, but Antic (their owner) has entered administration. The East Dulwich Tavern is pretty much always busy so I assume/hope that will find a buyer.

    Tough times for an industry that’s integral to our national culture, I really hope the new government find more effective ways of supporting this sector of the economy. 
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,726
    iaitch said:
    It's Antic, here's the list.

    • The Antelope, Tooting
    • Balham Bowls Club, Balham
    • Clapton Hart, Clapton
    • East Dulwich Tavern, East Dulwich
    • Elephant and Castle Pub, Elephant and Castle
    • Hagen & Hyde, Balham
    • The Sun, Camberwell
    • Gremio de Brixton, Brixton
    • Graveney & Meadow, Tooting Broadway
    • Dogstar, Brixton
    • Tooting Tram & Social, Tooting
    • Red Lion, Leytonstone
    • Coopers, Crystal Palace
    I've had some really good nights in a few of these. Hope they survive
  • InspectorSands
    InspectorSands Posts: 5,185
    edited July 2024
    I'd be cautious about any "Antic going bust" stories - it's not the first time, it won't be the last. They're not the greatest example of open and transparent business, often flying quite close to the wind. A decade ago they suddenly closed the Ravensbourne Arms in Lewisham, complaining that it was out of their control. Antic themselves sold that building for redevelopment as flats, and the pub is still empty now. Then there's the whole mess around the original Catford Constitutional Club where they got a very good deal from Lewisham Council but just let the place fall to bits. 

    Antic is comprised of a a group of separate companies (at least 55 past and present companies registered at Companies House) and some of these have entered administration, but not all. If one bit of the business tanks, the rest can keep going. So lazy talk of these companies tanking being "the final nail in the coffin" for any other part of the business is unhelpful speculation.

    Granted, it's significant that the East Dulwich Tavern (probably their flagship pub) is involved here, as well as the Elephant & Castle (their most central), but I wouldn't be surprised if these sail on under other Antic companies or new ones set up to buy them out of administration.
  • InspectorSands
    InspectorSands Posts: 5,185
    edited July 2024
    TelMc32 said:
    The group that owned the now closed Equitable and I think they were meant to be the ones looking to open a bar within old council offices near the old Plumstead baths.
    Plumble, granted quite a restricted licence last December after the police moaned about the number of offies in the area: https://greenwichwire.co.uk/2023/12/15/antic-wins-a-licence-for-a-new-pub-in-plumstead-but-only-40-drinkers-will-be-allowed/ 

    It may well have been that Antic decided it wasn't worth the bother - one of its network of companies, Jove Ltd, was planning to buy the building from the council. 

    The Plumble licence is in the name of Antic London Ltd, not the company planning to buy the building, and not one of the companies in administration: https://regulations.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/registers/index.html?fa=licence_register&licence_id=17260&council_id=12

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