I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
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The NJ thing I don’t like is his subs. They’re often late and too many players at once which causes us to lose all structure completely and the last 15/20 mins just becomes chaos3
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Maybe we need to spend our peanuts better ? When you start players from your promotion campaign, but none that you signed 12 months ago, youre definitely spending badly. We signed 17 players last season and not a single one of them were in yesterday's starting 11.ns9 said:
But in that time he’s kept us up, got us promoted and kept us up in the Championship so it has obviously worked to a much greater extent than it hasn’t. I do agree that our recruitment since getting promoted has been way off, but in relative terms we are spending absolute peanutsshine166 said:
Let's not attempt to put Jones at fault for any of this, hes only had 8 transfer windows to recruit his own players.oohaahmortimer said:Surely he didn’t choose to spend £20k per week on Skipp , although the alleged last spend of £20k a week was on Kaminski so maybe but no we’re skint and we didn’t spend or waste any money on Ahadme, Olaofe , Apter, Alli, Kelman, Knibbs , JRC .
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This is what does it for me. Spent all the money poorly. After every window trots out the we’ve improved in quality but then doesn’t play the players he’s brought in.shine166 said:
Maybe we need to spend out peanuts better ? When you start players from your promotion campaign, but none that you signed 12 months ago, youre definitely spending badly. We signed 17 players last season and not a single one of them were in yesterday's starting 11.ns9 said:
But in that time he’s kept us up, got us promoted and kept us up in the Championship so it has obviously worked to a much greater extent than it hasn’t. I do agree that our recruitment since getting promoted has been way off, but in relative terms we are spending absolute peanutsshine166 said:
Let's not attempt to put Jones at fault for any of this, hes only had 8 transfer windows to recruit his own players.oohaahmortimer said:Surely he didn’t choose to spend £20k per week on Skipp , although the alleged last spend of £20k a week was on Kaminski so maybe but no we’re skint and we didn’t spend or waste any money on Ahadme, Olaofe , Apter, Alli, Kelman, Knibbs , JRC .
All well and good saying he’s not been backed. But why should the owners trust him with their money when he’s just thrown it away previously?5 -
But it’s Catch 22. Has he spent money poorly or has he been short changed so we’ve had to shop around and recruit the best from the league below hoping they can step up or those with dubious injury records hoping we can keep them fit. At no point have we bought an oven ready Championship quality player. It’s all well and good for Carter & co. to trot out we want to be the most sustainable elite level club blah blah ad infinitum and then not spend to get there in the first place. I’ll say it again, a net summer spend of 1.5m in this league gets you one thing, a relegation fight. And that isn’t NJ’s fault.AberystwythAddick said:
This is what does it for me. Spent all the money poorly. After every window trots out the we’ve improved in quality but then doesn’t play the players he’s brought in.shine166 said:
Maybe we need to spend out peanuts better ? When you start players from your promotion campaign, but none that you signed 12 months ago, youre definitely spending badly. We signed 17 players last season and not a single one of them were in yesterday's starting 11.ns9 said:
But in that time he’s kept us up, got us promoted and kept us up in the Championship so it has obviously worked to a much greater extent than it hasn’t. I do agree that our recruitment since getting promoted has been way off, but in relative terms we are spending absolute peanutsshine166 said:
Let's not attempt to put Jones at fault for any of this, hes only had 8 transfer windows to recruit his own players.oohaahmortimer said:Surely he didn’t choose to spend £20k per week on Skipp , although the alleged last spend of £20k a week was on Kaminski so maybe but no we’re skint and we didn’t spend or waste any money on Ahadme, Olaofe , Apter, Alli, Kelman, Knibbs , JRC .
All well and good saying he’s not been backed. But why should the owners trust him with their money when he’s just thrown it away previously?2 -
Agreed, altho i thought last season he did have a structure to his ‘finishers’ and it seemed to work. Now we it just seems like chaos, or maybe its chaos when we are chasing.fenaddick said:The NJ thing I don’t like is his subs. They’re often late and too many players at once which causes us to lose all structure completely and the last 15/20 mins just becomes chaos0 -
Would love to know how much was spent on the 17 incomings last season.LargeAddick said:
But it’s Catch 22. Has he spent money poorly or has he been short changed so we’ve had to shop around and recruit the best from the league below hoping they can step up or those with dubious injury records hoping we can keep them fit. At no point have we bought an oven ready Championship quality player. It’s all well and good for Carter & co. to trot out we want to be the most sustainable elite level club blah blah ad infinitum and then not spend to get there in the first place. I’ll say it again, a net summer spend of 1.5m in this league gets you one thing, a relegation fight. And that isn’t NJ’s fault.AberystwythAddick said:
This is what does it for me. Spent all the money poorly. After every window trots out the we’ve improved in quality but then doesn’t play the players he’s brought in.shine166 said:
Maybe we need to spend out peanuts better ? When you start players from your promotion campaign, but none that you signed 12 months ago, youre definitely spending badly. We signed 17 players last season and not a single one of them were in yesterday's starting 11.ns9 said:
But in that time he’s kept us up, got us promoted and kept us up in the Championship so it has obviously worked to a much greater extent than it hasn’t. I do agree that our recruitment since getting promoted has been way off, but in relative terms we are spending absolute peanutsshine166 said:
Let's not attempt to put Jones at fault for any of this, hes only had 8 transfer windows to recruit his own players.oohaahmortimer said:Surely he didn’t choose to spend £20k per week on Skipp , although the alleged last spend of £20k a week was on Kaminski so maybe but no we’re skint and we didn’t spend or waste any money on Ahadme, Olaofe , Apter, Alli, Kelman, Knibbs , JRC .
All well and good saying he’s not been backed. But why should the owners trust him with their money when he’s just thrown it away previously?0 -
Got to be honest - and I'm a Jonesy fan - it did seem at times during the transfer windows, that he (or they) were a bit like kids in a toy shop, with a couple of bags burning a hole in their back pockets. There were players coming in who individually seemed to have pedigree, but there didn't seem to be any clear direction in terms of what they were trying to achieve with them. Was it just a bit of a free-for-all, trying to “improve” every area of the squad without any real overall plan?
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I don’t get why this always the automatic response to anyone who questions Nathan Jones.Dazzler21 said:I don't really get why after the last 20 years people think we can attract better.
Who have we had that has been a genuinely good manager since Curbishley left? Powell? Bowyer?0 -
If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …2
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I have bitten.RonnieMoore said:If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …
For sake of argument and he gets sacked. Who would you appoint?0 -
Reading these threads, there are many varied and interesting ideas about how to structure the team in order to try to get the best out of them, to play better football and create more chances.
But Jones seems extremely reluctant to change tactics despite it being glaringly obviously to virtually everyone that we need to change.
I'm pretty sure that Curbs was a manager with strong convictions, but he would regularly consult with Mervyn Day.
I've never seen Jones and Fleming in deep discussion. I'm wondering whether he is getting any suggestions, or ideas, from his staff or is it that they don't bother, because he won't listen to advice!0 -
Happens multiple times a game.queensland_addick said:Reading these threads, there are many varied and interesting ideas about how to structure the team in order to try to get the best out of them, to play better football and create more chances.
But Jones seems extremely reluctant to change tactics despite it being glaringly obviously to virtually everyone that we need to change.
I'm pretty sure that Curbs was a manager with strong convictions, but he would regularly consult with Mervyn Day.
I've never seen Jones and Fleming in deep discussion. I'm wondering whether he is getting any suggestions, or ideas, from his staff or is it that they don't bother, because he won't listen to advice!
It's very easy for us to come up with theories but we don't see the players in training, don't know enough about our opponents and don't have to work out how to coach the players.
If you've done something in your job the same way for 2 and a half years it will take you time to adjust to a new way of doing things. If your boss then decided 6 weeks in they wanted you to do a hybrid of the two you'd find that confusing. The problem is, if NJ keeps doing the same thing we'll keep not winning.1 -
Gus PoyetElfsborgAddick said:
I have bitten.RonnieMoore said:If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …
For sake of argument and he gets sacked. Who would you appoint?2 -
If for example the choices were to:MeerKat said:
Just for arguments sake, if we sacked Jones and hired an absolute magician, who got the very most out of this squad of players, how high do you think they could finish? What do we think is the general consensus on this squads ability?Sword65pf said:
People liking this, is the general consensus that we have got a load of incapable shit players?, surely we’ve seen most of them play well at some point to look at the bigger picture, tactics for one, confidence, our play just seems so stifled.LittleAddick said:NJ getting sacked doesn't solve anything, we haven't got the players to play 'good football' at this level
a) plod along with Jones like we are playing dire football and nicking the odd result here and finish 19th.
b) play some decent football with a new manager, go into games with intent to win rather than not to lose and finish 16th.
Most people would prefer option B.
I don't think anyone would suddenly expect us to gatecrash the play offs just because we had a new manager, we know that our squad isn't good enough for that. But i would think that most people are just sick of the terrible football we play week in week out.
That said, whenever we've had a sticky patch before Jones has turned it around, so i hope yesterday was a big wake up call and we actually see some changes in tactics and personnel next week and things improve.0 -
Don't fall into the trap, I have done it previously and he pulls it out the bag. In Jones I trust.2
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He deserves the chance to show he can turn it around because A) he’s done a good job for us in the time he’s been here.
He’s had a decent career and has solid experience. C) we’re not sitting in the bottom three
But he does need to show he can get the team firing. I have concerns about pretty much all the midfield and attack. We don’t look like a team that are comfortable with the ball or know where the goal is. The organised, defensive side of our game has been exposed a few times this season, so we have to watch that as well. That may be rectified by going ‘back to basics’, but I’m scratching my head at who comes in and what changes.I’d say Norwich is a big game and a must win for him. We’ve done well to only be beaten 3 times this season, but that win against Preston was so long ago. The fans need to see things are being changed or get the feeling we’re able to come out of this rut2 -
ElfsborgAddick said:
I have bitten.RonnieMoore said:If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …
For sake of argument and he gets sacked. Who would you appoint?
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Chris_from_Sidcup said:
If for example the choices were to:MeerKat said:
Just for arguments sake, if we sacked Jones and hired an absolute magician, who got the very most out of this squad of players, how high do you think they could finish? What do we think is the general consensus on this squads ability?Sword65pf said:
People liking this, is the general consensus that we have got a load of incapable shit players?, surely we’ve seen most of them play well at some point to look at the bigger picture, tactics for one, confidence, our play just seems so stifled.LittleAddick said:NJ getting sacked doesn't solve anything, we haven't got the players to play 'good football' at this level
a) plod along with Jones like we are playing dire football and nicking the odd result here and finish 19th.
b) play some decent football with a new manager, go into games with intent to win rather than not to lose and finish 16th.
Most people would prefer option B.
I don't think anyone would suddenly expect us to gatecrash the play offs just because we had a new manager, we know that our squad isn't good enough for that. But i would think that most people are just sick of the terrible football we play week in week out.
That said, whenever we've had a sticky patch before Jones has turned it around, so i hope yesterday was a big wake up call and we actually see some changes in tactics and personnel next week and things improve.
I would accept B with the same finishing position as A.0 -
Unless this has gone right over by head, you don’t have anything to ‘bite’ to in reply to Ronnies post.ElfsborgAddick said:
I have bitten.RonnieMoore said:If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …
For sake of argument and he gets sacked. Who would you appoint?You and him are on the same side. He is also saying there is nobody else to replace him as I presume you are2 -
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Deserves until around Christmas regardless because of how far he has taken us.Problem for any new manager is Jones' squad is so defensively focused it would be hard to set up in a different way. We have 10 defenders in the squad and multiple defensive midfielders on top.2
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It's time for a change and not in few weeks time. I can't stand watching this (his) team which is heartbreaking because i love Charlton. Even my 23 year old son who's obsessed with the club , says he doesn't want to go anymore whilst Jones is in Charge and before anyone asks who we'd replace him with , i have no idea but i'd rather go down playing football than parking the bus every single game.2
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Agreed. A bit like those told to shut up when calling out Duchatalet or Southall or Sandgaard or questioning the current lot. We've only had dogturd for decades so let's embrace dogturd, better the dogturd you know, can anyone name a dogturd that stinks less than the one that is currently making me incessantly wretch, if you can't then just keep on wretching and think yourself lucky.The Red Robin said:
I don’t get why this always the automatic response to anyone who questions Nathan Jones.Dazzler21 said:I don't really get why after the last 20 years people think we can attract better.
Who have we had that has been a genuinely good manager since Curbishley left? Powell? Bowyer?
That said, very much hope Jonesy' pulls something out the bag at the Valley next weekend (third time lucky on the succession of sitting ducks we've had shots at) and gives SE7 a very welcome shot of Air Wick to shut everyone up again for a bit1 -
All this option A / B stuff - I think it’s pretty much a given that if it was a certainty that you could get in another manager (all other things being equal) and improve on your placing / football style it would be done. The problem is that it is not a given, it’s a huge gamble that could backfire terribly. The question should be “Who other than NJ can realistically keep the beast alive with this terrible squad and financial constraints?”. I don’t have an answer. And before you say “it’s his terrible squad” - I’m not convinced anyone else can attract better players to this project either.
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I still think, in theory the squad should be capable of staying clear of trouble. We have in my view a meaningfully better defence than last season;
Ramsay, Jones, Koumetio and Bell/Mesik/Edwards is a better defence than last season, with Macnmara too and a better goalie than last year. That in itself should go some way given that our system in both seasons is primarily based on defensive solidity.
If we can get that in better nick, the midfield and attack is no worse than last season and there should still be enough to nick the odd goal /points especially if (big if) Godden was available for a meaningful number of games
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/63 -
DamoNorthStand said:
Unless this has gone right over by head, you don’t have anything to ‘bite’ to in reply to Ronnies post.ElfsborgAddick said:
I have bitten.RonnieMoore said:If only people who want NJ out give a name to replace him …. Not seen one name so that must mean there is no one who would be an upgrade on Jones and get the club like he does … …. People need to remember it’s only 11 games into the season .. we only lost 3 games all season, and we are still only 3 points from top 8 … …
For sake of argument and he gets sacked. Who would you appoint?You and him are on the same side. He is also saying there is nobody else to replace him as I presume you are
Of course there is somebody that can replace him.
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Where’s option C? Play better football, get drilled every week and go down?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
If for example the choices were to:MeerKat said:
Just for arguments sake, if we sacked Jones and hired an absolute magician, who got the very most out of this squad of players, how high do you think they could finish? What do we think is the general consensus on this squads ability?Sword65pf said:
People liking this, is the general consensus that we have got a load of incapable shit players?, surely we’ve seen most of them play well at some point to look at the bigger picture, tactics for one, confidence, our play just seems so stifled.LittleAddick said:NJ getting sacked doesn't solve anything, we haven't got the players to play 'good football' at this level
a) plod along with Jones like we are playing dire football and nicking the odd result here and finish 19th.
b) play some decent football with a new manager, go into games with intent to win rather than not to lose and finish 16th.
Most people would prefer option B.
I don't think anyone would suddenly expect us to gatecrash the play offs just because we had a new manager, we know that our squad isn't good enough for that. But i would think that most people are just sick of the terrible football we play week in week out.
That said, whenever we've had a sticky patch before Jones has turned it around, so i hope yesterday was a big wake up call and we actually see some changes in tactics and personnel next week and things improve.0 -
I genuinely believe our problems are more about Jones than the squad. We have players who can play on the front foot but are being instructed to play on the back foot. Unleash them and who knows what might happen - it can't be any worse. There are very few, if any, happy faces in the playing squad at the moment and the dire tactics may well be playing their part in apparent low morale.OK - I'll stick my neck out and suggest alternatives to Jones. I would get rid immediately and appoint Pearce and Fleming as interim joint head coaches - neither are Jones' men and Jase for me seems like the kind of character that would get them smiling again. Then look for a new manager and it might be possible that Pearce/Fleming could be successful in that role moving forwards. I seem to recall that joint managers worked out reasonably for us some years ago! Maybe one of them (likely Jase) could emerge as the second coming of Curbs. I would also have Curbs in some form of mentoring role.If that doesn't appear to be working with either/both of them then perhaps someone like Des Buckingham who Oxford should never have sacked - slight sticking point is that he's earning £45k a week in Saudi!3
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Eight games without a win and his football is pretty terrible to watch. Does anyone enjoy watching us play at present?ProperCharlton said:I know recent performances haven't been good enough and results have been shocking but he has done such a good job as manager since joining that I am nowhere near wanting him replaced.
He kept us up, got us promoted, kept us up again and we're outside the relegation places currently, all whilst having a relatively small budget. What else is he supposed to do?
Keep the faith.
Hopefully results will pick up but confidence is low at present...
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Listening to folk on here they must think we're playing in the Premier League, it's the f****** Championship.I have, and still am to a much lesser extent, a supporter of Jones. However, from what seemed to be a shocking display against a team that had conceded nine goals in the previous two games, and setting up a defensive line up, this shows what has been clear from day one.Will supporters still defend Jones if we were to get relegated citing the boards lack of investment?1
