Matchday Ticket prices 26/27

superclive98

golfaddick said:

I was only looking at Pompey tickets this afternoon. Not got a ST and very rarely go to matches nowadays. 

Gobsmacked at the price for the AC stand. I usually go for either block F or G and was paying around £30 last year.

Now £38. 

That's almost a 30% increase.

Sorry, but I probably wont be going to that one.

£38 plus your £1.50 handling fee, so £39.50.

valleynick66

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

LargeAddick

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

If enough people did that we’d sell out but have 2 to 3 thousand unoccupied seats on the day.

Weegie Addick

LargeAddick said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

If enough people did that we’d sell out but have 2 to 3 thousand unoccupied seats on the day.

And a lot of phantom kids on the database

letthegoodtimesroll

LargeAddick said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

If enough people did that we’d sell out but have 2 to 3 thousand unoccupied seats on the day.

Instead of the average 7k the pricing aims to maintain ?

shine166

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

I guess you could, bit like the people who buy tickets in the family corner, but walk around and sit in the NU. It can be done, but its a bit of a knobhead move. 

se9addick

shine166 said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

I guess you could, bit like the people who buy tickets in the family corner, but walk around and sit in the NU. It can be done, but it’s a bit of a knobhead move. 

Not really equivalent, sitting in a seat in the pricing tier above is dishonest. Buying a ticket that includes two adult seats, which are used by two adults, is fair enough.

Plus, £39.50 for a 12:30 kick off is a “bit of a knobhead move” as well. 

letthegoodtimesroll

se9addick said:

shine166 said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

I guess you could, bit like the people who buy tickets in the family corner, but walk around and sit in the NU. It can be done, but it’s a bit of a knobhead move. 

Not really equivalent, sitting in a seat in the pricing tier above is dishonest. Buying a ticket that includes two adult seats, which are used by two adults, is fair enough.

Plus, £39.50 for a 12:30 kick off is a “bit of a knobhead move” as well. 

It probably looks good on a spreadsheet projection for generating revenues 

shine166

se9addick said:

shine166 said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

I guess you could, bit like the people who buy tickets in the family corner, but walk around and sit in the NU. It can be done, but it’s a bit of a knobhead move. 

Not really equivalent, sitting in a seat in the pricing tier above is dishonest. Buying a ticket that includes two adult seats, which are used by two adults, is fair enough.

Plus, £39.50 for a 12:30 kick off is a “bit of a knobhead move” as well. 

Yeah fair play, tbh now it includes the whole curbs stand its not such a issue. Was very frustrating trying to buy family stand seats, in a area that was always pretty much sold out, but always empty.

The pricing for the gold games are madness, regardless of the KO time. 

Airman Brown

fenaddick said:

valleynick66 said:

This gold and silver differentiation is a further anti fan trend. 

Surely the whole point about football is that on the day any result is possible. Jones always  tells us how good / difficult the opposition will be. 

We don’t need to manage demand. 

It’s an out and out money grab and a disappointing feature of football that isn’t going away - sadly. 

It's purely linked to how many away fans will come so the club can grab as much money from them as possible, it sucks

Away fans don’t pay the top price as their stand is linked to our cheapest area. The Gold mark-up there is £5 for adults, which is £4.17 net of VAT. The concession mark-up is £2 or £1 (£1.67 or £83p net).

Let’s say the seat sale is 3,400 - the maximum possible - and 80% are adults, which is very high against the crowd as a whole, but away contingents are skewed. That’s about £13k marginal revenue from the increase.

If the average net income from a home fan is £25 (including ancillary income), you are only looking at pricing out 500 to 600 home ticket buyers before you have wiped out the gain from away fans.

I suspect it’s correct that tourists aren’t put off by the increase but realistically we don’t have 1,000 tourists attending. Even if we did the £3 additional adult price (£2.50 net) in most seats is diddly squat in overall terms.

You would expect an uplift in home attendance for those games in any event, but it’s hard to know what that would be, ie we can’t know the starting point. 

This is a long way of saying I reckon the club do look at the increased away revenue but I’m doubtful the numbers stack up. Or at best the gain is marginal. I do know the Portsmouth (abandoned) crowd last season was regarded by the club as very poor.

i also think the standard prices are not set at the point where they maximise revenue. There is too much “x charge y” and not enough understanding of the market at Charlton or the opportunity provided by the empty seats (see also the club’s position on Valley Express).

Possibly the intention is to ratchet season ticket prices year on year using the match prices as justification. I doubt the demand is there to underpin this, and although improved performances on the pitch do help you still have to look at the empty seats and think who else could be attracted where you are at any given time. They are the real revenue oppprtunity. Selling 1k extra home tickets a game is double the revenue effect of gold games from away supporters, with no downside.

superclive98

I don't believe much thinking goes into the pricing strategy at all.
They probably think it's only a £3 increase, just as they have in recent years. No consideration of increasing the fanbase. This time next year we'll be having the same conversation.

letthegoodtimesroll

Airman Brown said:

fenaddick said:

valleynick66 said:

This gold and silver differentiation is a further anti fan trend. 

Surely the whole point about football is that on the day any result is possible. Jones always  tells us how good / difficult the opposition will be. 

We don’t need to manage demand. 

It’s an out and out money grab and a disappointing feature of football that isn’t going away - sadly. 

It's purely linked to how many away fans will come so the club can grab as much money from them as possible, it sucks

Away fans don’t pay the top price as their stand is linked to our cheapest area. The Gold mark-up there is £5 for adults, which is £4.15 net of VAT. The concession mark-up is £2 or £1 (£1.71 or £85p net).

Let’s say the seat sale is 3,400 - the maximum possible - and 80% are adults, which is very high against the crowd as a whole, but away contingents are skewed. That’s about £13k marginal revenue from the increase.

If the average net income from a home fan is £25 (including ancillary income), you are only looking at pricing out 500 to 600 home ticket buyers before you have wiped out the gain from away fans.

I suspect it’s correct that tourists aren’t put off by the increase but realistically we don’t have 1,000 tourists attending. Even if we did the £3 additional adult price (£2.50 net) in most seats is diddly squat in overall terms.

You would expect an uplift in home attendance for those games in any event, but it’s hard to know what that would be, ie we can’t know the starting point. 

This is a long way of saying I reckon the club do look at the increased away revenue but I’m doubtful the numbers stack up. Or at best the gain is marginal. I do know the Portsmouth (abandoned) crowd last season was regarded by the club as very poor.

i also think the standard prices are not set at the point where they maximise revenue. There is too much “x charge y” and not enough understanding of the market at Charlton or the opportunity provided by the empty seats (see also the club’s position on Valley Express).

Possibly the intention is to ratchet season ticket prices year on year using the match prices as justification. I doubt the demand is there to underpin this, and although improved performances on the pitch do help you still have to look at the empty seats and think who else could be attracted where you are at any given time. They are the real revenue oppprtunity. Selling £1k extra home tickets a game is double the revenue effect of gold games from away supporters.

They need to create a solid and increasing demand for season tickets before they can even consider ratcheting up prices. As far as I’m aware they still haven’t mentioned how many have been sold so if I had to guess the answer is probably sales didn’t go the way they thought they should.

Airman Brown

superclive98 said:

I don't believe much thinking goes into the pricing strategy at all.
They probably think it's only a £3 increase, just as they have in recent years. No consideration of increasing the fanbase. This time next year we'll be having the same conversation.

I agree. I would be very interested to know whether the “shadow board” actually interrogates the revenue calculations, never mind the actual one. The actual 90s/ 2000s board wasn’t great at this, I don’t think, and there were some individuals who were prone to asserting opinions about what people should pay. That is why we used the Target 10k/Target 40k committees to stress test everything. I have no idea what the “shadow board” does but if they aren’t pulling the numbers apart stand by stand I doubt it’s worthwhile. “Fred thinks £35 is fine” is just a waste of time.

letthegoodtimesroll

Maybe they didn’t share the memo that the owners were going to step up and back Nathan as much as they have and that if he is building a team that just might have a go at promotion this season then filling the ground with fans to get behind the team is far more important than getting more revenue out of a half full to two-thirds full stadium that has so many empty seats on match days.

fenaddick

It's obviously slightly different but there's been some interesting discussions in the last few days about the big PL clubs slowly realising that squeezing money out of fans isn't what makes them money in the long run, what does is a successful team and "brand" (🤢) and that's why the PL to PL transfer market has gone mad. I wonder if that will trickle down to the Championship at any point

Airman Brown

letthegoodtimesroll said:

Maybe they didn’t share the memo that the owners were going to step up and back Nathan as much as they have and that if he is building a team that just might have a go at promotion this season then filling the ground with fans to get behind the team is far more important than getting more revenue out of a half full to two-thirds full stadium that has so many empty seats on match days.

I don’t think it’s an either/or.

superclive98

They certainly don't consider supply and demand, that's for sure.

letthegoodtimesroll

Airman Brown said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

Maybe they didn’t share the memo that the owners were going to step up and back Nathan as much as they have and that if he is building a team that just might have a go at promotion this season then filling the ground with fans to get behind the team is far more important than getting more revenue out of a half full to two-thirds full stadium that has so many empty seats on match days.

I don’t think it’s an either/or.

Sort of depends on whether you are talking about being at the match or reading the write up afterwards and the guesses we all make always seems to be off the mark so needs a bit of leeway.

bertpalmer

The west stand seems to be the emptiest why dont they run some initiatives/discounts to get it full or even make a family area there

CAFCTrev

What scenario would get regular 27k sellouts at The Valley across a season in the 2nd tier?

A blanket £20 adults and £10 kids ticket price everywhere in the ground for all 23 home games? Is it even possible to get regular sellouts at The Valley if the club is either struggling or, at best, mid-table in a season, regardless of the price? Is there just an attendance ceiling for Charlton in the Championship of around 16–21k?

Of course, having a promotion-challenging season would help fill the ground, but I think we’d need to be consistently in the top two for the entire season to see the ground sell out nearly every game. And even then, I’m not convinced we’d get 27k every week.

Cafc451

CAFCTrev said:

What scenario would get regular 27k sellouts at The Valley across a season in the 2nd tier?

A blanket £20 adults and £10 kids ticket price everywhere in the ground for all 23 home games? Is it even possible to get regular sellouts at The Valley if the club is either struggling or, at best, mid-table in a season, regardless of the price? Is there just an attendance ceiling for Charlton in the Championship of around 16–21k?

Of course, having a promotion-challenging season would help fill the ground, but I think we’d need to be consistently in the top two for the entire season to see the ground sell out nearly every game. And even then, I’m not convinced we’d get 27k every week.

No chance with the amount of matches shown on tv.

ElfsborgAddick

Generally speaking if you have a team fighting for promotion fans will feel inclined to pay extra and attend.

Get it right on the pitch and the rest will follow.

valleynick66

Airman Brown said:

superclive98 said:

I don't believe much thinking goes into the pricing strategy at all.
They probably think it's only a £3 increase, just as they have in recent years. No consideration of increasing the fanbase. This time next year we'll be having the same conversation.

I agree. I would be very interested to know whether the “shadow board” actually interrogates the revenue calculations, never mind the actual one. The actual 90s/ 2000s board wasn’t great at this, I don’t think, and there were some individuals who were prone to asserting opinions about what people should pay. That is why we used the Target 10k/Target 40k committees to stress test everything. I have no idea what the “shadow board” does but if they aren’t pulling the numbers apart stand by stand I doubt it’s worthwhile. “Fred thinks £35 is fine” is just a waste of time.

Yes exactly. People at the club who don’t pay for their seats / hospitality judging what more they can make a fan pay and no concept of what disposable income many of our demographic likely have and to consider spending that on football. 

People who earn good money seem to soon forget what an average income really equates to after spending on essentials. 

As I’ve said before when it comes to attracting fans we price for the demographic we want not that we have it feels. 

valleynick66

shine166 said:

valleynick66 said:

shine166 said:

The family bundle for £50 is a great deal, will definitely use that for Pompey. I didnt realise it was a regular offer.

So I could theoretically   buy a family bundle to get 2 x adults at a better price and simply not use the 2  x under 12 tickets and have a spare seat next to me ?

I guess you could, bit like the people who buy tickets in the family corner, but walk around and sit in the NU. It can be done, but it’s a bit of a knobhead move. 

Agreed but I was more highlighting the inequity in the pricing. Is it right 2 adults must pay as much as they do relative to a family group? Every person attracted is a potential returning customer after all. 

I’d still favour buy 2 consecutive home matches for a discount or bring a friend at a discounted price type thing. 

se9addick

CAFCTrev said:

What scenario would get regular 27k sellouts at The Valley across a season in the 2nd tier?

A blanket £20 adults and £10 kids ticket price everywhere in the ground for all 23 home games? Is it even possible to get regular sellouts at The Valley if the club is either struggling or, at best, mid-table in a season, regardless of the price? Is there just an attendance ceiling for Charlton in the Championship of around 16–21k?

Of course, having a promotion-challenging season would help fill the ground, but I think we’d need to be consistently in the top two for the entire season to see the ground sell out nearly every game. And even then, I’m not convinced we’d get 27k every week.

I think 27k week in week out requires Premier League football. 

That being said, and as I mentioned above, I am
disappointed with the attendance last Saturday. Championship football, the team playing decent stuff and a 100% start to the season should have converted to a better home attendance. Summer holidays probably didn’t help, but I doubt the ticket prices did much to boost the attendance either. 

ElfsborgAddick

se9addick said:

CAFCTrev said:

What scenario would get regular 27k sellouts at The Valley across a season in the 2nd tier?

A blanket £20 adults and £10 kids ticket price everywhere in the ground for all 23 home games? Is it even possible to get regular sellouts at The Valley if the club is either struggling or, at best, mid-table in a season, regardless of the price? Is there just an attendance ceiling for Charlton in the Championship of around 16–21k?

Of course, having a promotion-challenging season would help fill the ground, but I think we’d need to be consistently in the top two for the entire season to see the ground sell out nearly every game. And even then, I’m not convinced we’d get 27k every week.

I think 27k week in week out requires Premier League football. 

That being said, and as I mentioned above, I am
disappointed with the attendance last Saturday. Championship football, the team playing decent stuff and a 100% start to the season should have converted to a better home attendance. Summer holidays probably didn’t help, but I doubt the ticket prices did much to boost the attendance either. 

I think if we stayed top 3 all season we'd struggle to get a sell out.

That aside I'd like to think we'd be getting 22k plus each weekend game.

Weegie Addick

It’s pretty clear that there is not enough database analysis / focus on progression from first time visitor to occasional visitor to regular / potential season ticket holder. 

We have an amazing catchment area to bring in new fans. Initiatives such as the schools partnership are vital but it then needs consistent and dedicated work to convert first time / new visitors to become long term fans. 

The strategy isn’t difficult. Enacting it (which includes getting the pricing right) seems to be more problematic. 

FinlandMatt

I think 38 quid for a home game is ridiculous.

Charlton used to charge 20 flat.

If people could afford it, more people would attend 

ElfsborgAddick

FinlandMatt said:

I think 38 quid for a home game is ridiculous.

Charlton used to charge 20 flat.

If people could afford it, more people would attend 

When was the £20 ticket sold? I do not remember this.

letthegoodtimesroll

se9addick said:

CAFCTrev said:

What scenario would get regular 27k sellouts at The Valley across a season in the 2nd tier?

A blanket £20 adults and £10 kids ticket price everywhere in the ground for all 23 home games? Is it even possible to get regular sellouts at The Valley if the club is either struggling or, at best, mid-table in a season, regardless of the price? Is there just an attendance ceiling for Charlton in the Championship of around 16–21k?

Of course, having a promotion-challenging season would help fill the ground, but I think we’d need to be consistently in the top two for the entire season to see the ground sell out nearly every game. And even then, I’m not convinced we’d get 27k every week.

I think 27k week in week out requires Premier League football. 

That being said, and as I mentioned above, I am
disappointed with the attendance last Saturday. Championship football, the team playing decent stuff and a 100% start to the season should have converted to a better home attendance. Summer holidays probably didn’t help, but I doubt the ticket prices did much to boost the attendance either. 

The world has moved on. Most Championship teams are regularly pulling in a lot more fans than we do. We have an issue catching up at the moment because we currently kill off any feel good factors that would encourage more fans with our pricing approach that often seems to just be disconnected with what everyone seems to see when they realise how much a ST or match ticket is going to cost them and that’s without the travel and other associated costs with a day out.

you have to build the fan base first before you can look to see how much extra revenue you can extract from it, not the other way around as we seem to be doing at present.