Depends what breed of dog it is and what the child was doing to it!
I blame the owners of the dogs rather than the dogs themselves.
That is the defence used by the gun lobby in the USA. 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' I really do not think that argument has any merit whatsoever.
A dog with an irresponsible owner can go off without it's owner.
A gun with an irresponsible owner cannot go off on it's own.
Have no views either way just wanted to point out your your statement didnt make sense to me.
Actually there have been cases where people have been killed by a gun in a house without the owner being there, someone else playing about with it and its actually gone off. So it does make a bit of sense what he said .
Must say those stats really surprised me. Basically saying from when your little un is born, by the time they turn ten then 5,000 kids will have needed plastic surgery after being attacked by dogs in the UK. I don't see how anyone who has kids can't see that as a shocking statistic.
Just wonder how much more people think the rate of attacks continue to go up every year until something is done ?
I was attacked twice as a kid by dogs, hospitalised once. I don't expect every owner to be of the standard and efficiency that TCE clearly is, but I would like to see some form of registration, and course / qualification necessary before people can own a dog. Any dog.
This is what horrifies me and please take this context it is meant AFKA.
In the world of training and showing dogs I am considered a complete novice (and rightly so) while Bailey is one of not many PAT dogs the rest of what I do is considered basic stuff. Yet to some folk it is considered an exceptional standard and thats worrying. I do what do with Bailey to try and remove the stigma attached to dogs especially Sheps, there is a guy who cant be much older than 20 with a Staff and he dresses exactly as described in one comment above, his dog is trained to a standard I could only dream about. Yet he would be considered a trophy dog with a thug of an owner. As the saying goes " Blame the Deed not the Breed"
It's easy to blame dogs Al but the reality is its always the owner
98% correct I'd say. Still a problem that needs to be addressed. But how ?
Owners do not rip the faces off of babies and small children. Certain breeds of dogs do so year after year.
I see your point but the behaviour and general temperament of a dog is largely the product of its training and interaction with its owner much in the same way that good parenting of a child is important in developing a good and rounded person. Of course the unpredictability of any animal is a factor so perhaps my earlier assertion of 98% is a little high.
The vast majority of US gun owners are perfectly law abiding and responsible (unless there is an unfortunate accident). Doesn't mean I'd want guns to be legal here
The stat is shocking dan it's down right horrific but along with the stabbings and shootings it's all down to poor punishments issued out by the laws of the land
Red in Se8 your on the wind up so obvious you may as well give up
In my experience Red in SE8 is not a wind up merchant.
He sometimes (often) takes an opposite stance to me but I've always felt his opinions are sincerely held and thus worthy of respect even if I disagree.
The opening poster to this thread is saying make the breed illegal, well I'm sorry but I will calm down when everyone else does. When people stop spurting shit like that. Everyone can come here have their little rant about dangerous dogs.... Well I'm here to defend dog's. No dog is dangerous a birth but any can be in the wrong hands... So what we just destroy all dogs? It's absolutely absurd to starting shouting we should do this or that without even thinking what you are saying. Who decides what's dangerous? Oh the opening poster I guess.
That opening post was made over 4 years ago. The recent horrific events in Manchester, the number of children who have been scarred for life by these weapon dogs in the years since and the statistics quoted by AFKA have only served to harden my views on the matter.
It doesn't matter when it was made.... You didn't answer my question. Do we destroy all dogs or just the ones you think are to blame? Whether my dog is the softest dog in the world is irrelevant, destroy it just because some people don't look after theirs. Attitudes like that make me sick. So you make staffs illegal!! they move onto a new breed. You make that illegal, they move onto another one. Do you not see what you are saying is not much short of stupid?
I have never advocated killing all dogs. I simply believe it should be illegal for anyone to keep crocodiles, wolves, poisonous snakes or any kind of animal that is liable and capable to inflict serious injury as a pet.
The opening poster to this thread is saying make the breed illegal, well I'm sorry but I will calm down when everyone else does. When people stop spurting shit like that. Everyone can come here have their little rant about dangerous dogs.... Well I'm here to defend dog's. No dog is dangerous a birth but any can be in the wrong hands... So what we just destroy all dogs? It's absolutely absurd to starting shouting we should do this or that without even thinking what you are saying. Who decides what's dangerous? Oh the opening poster I guess.
That opening post was made over 4 years ago. The recent horrific events in Manchester, the number of children who have been scarred for life by these weapon dogs in the years since and the statistics quoted by AFKA have only served to harden my views on the matter.
It doesn't matter when it was made.... You didn't answer my question. Do we destroy all dogs or just the ones you think are to blame? Whether my dog is the softest dog in the world is irrelevant, destroy it just because some people don't look after theirs. Attitudes like that make me sick. So you make staffs illegal!! they move onto a new breed. You make that illegal, they move onto another one. Do you not see what you are saying is not much short of stupid?
I have never advocated killing all dogs. I simply believe it should be illegal for anyone to keep crocodiles, wolves, poisonous snakes or any kind of animal that is liable and capable to inflict serious injury as a pet.
Just looked at the Canadian stats oakster see the rott is top then the Alsatian then the husky would this be because they are the most popular dogs in Canada ?
Not sure as a whole certainly where I live in prime bear country lots of people have big dogs as a form of protection - see a heck of a lot of huskies around here they are used as sled dogs in the back country. Problem here like the UK is irresponsible owners, on the Indian reservations you see packs of dogs roaming wild, really vicious looking beasts & that seems to be where a lot of attacks placed. In the more tightly controlled towns & cities it is almost a stop & double take moment to see a dog running free.
I don't mind dogs but I was bitten as a kid by the family dog & that put me off owning one, especially with 2 small kids around (one of whom has already been bitten by a neighbours dog - not the dog's fault).
We actually have a big coyote problem, they will definitely attack small kids - you have to have your wits about you at all times!
The opening poster to this thread is saying make the breed illegal, well I'm sorry but I will calm down when everyone else does. When people stop spurting shit like that. Everyone can come here have their little rant about dangerous dogs.... Well I'm here to defend dog's. No dog is dangerous a birth but any can be in the wrong hands... So what we just destroy all dogs? It's absolutely absurd to starting shouting we should do this or that without even thinking what you are saying. Who decides what's dangerous? Oh the opening poster I guess.
That opening post was made over 4 years ago. The recent horrific events in Manchester, the number of children who have been scarred for life by these weapon dogs in the years since and the statistics quoted by AFKA have only served to harden my views on the matter.
It doesn't matter when it was made.... You didn't answer my question. Do we destroy all dogs or just the ones you think are to blame? Whether my dog is the softest dog in the world is irrelevant, destroy it just because some people don't look after theirs. Attitudes like that make me sick. So you make staffs illegal!! they move onto a new breed. You make that illegal, they move onto another one. Do you not see what you are saying is not much short of stupid?
I have never advocated killing all dogs. I simply believe it should be illegal for anyone to keep crocodiles, wolves, poisonous snakes or any kind of animal that is liable and capable to inflict serious injury as a pet.
So what do you think would happen to all the so called illegal dogs??? They get destroyed, like I said your argument isn't thought out its just a rant without having a serious answer to the problem.
Staffs are worse than Labradors for example. Because of the attack dog craze they should be muzzled when out in public as there is no way of telling a good staff from a bad one until it's too late.
Maybe there should be a law that any breed of dog that, historically, has been shown to be capable of inflicting serious injury on a human should be muzzled when in a public place. This would at least reduce the risk surely. It shouldn't be too difficult to draw up a list. Or is that too simple? Of course that wouldn't solve the problem of dogs roaming free.
Staffs are worse than Labradors for example. Because of the attack dog craze they should be muzzled when out in public as there is no way of telling a good staff from a bad one until it's too late.
What a ridiculous statement.... If I had a Labrador from a pup I could train it to be a vicious as any staff, just like I have had my staff from a pup and trained it to be less vicious than any Labrador....... Some posters need to be muzzled
Maybe there should be a law that any breed of dog that, historically, has been shown to be capable of inflicting serious injury on a human should be muzzled when in a public place. This would at least reduce the risk surely. It shouldn't be too difficult to draw up a list. Or is that too simple? Of course that wouldn't solve the problem of dogs roaming free.
I bet if you searched you would find every dog breed has at some point somewhere bitten someone or something. If you muzzle one breed you have to muzzle all breeds.
Cruel? At the start it maybe necessarily the only option, given the the results should it not wear one.
Muzzle a dog because............ 1, It dont like other dogs and is likely to bite them. 2, It dont like people and its likely to bite them.
So as humans what do we do, we walk them at silly o/clock to lessen the chances of meeting anyone, When the opposite is really what we should be doing, socialising them, getting them around people and dogs,
Was more referring to those who believe a dog should be muzzled for large periods of time. Of course it prevents them from biting but it doesn't really help in teaching it.
Probably guilty of your last point with one of mine though...
Maybe there should be a law that any breed of dog that, historically, has been shown to be capable of inflicting serious injury on a human should be muzzled when in a public place. This would at least reduce the risk surely. It shouldn't be too difficult to draw up a list. Or is that too simple? Of course that wouldn't solve the problem of dogs roaming free.
I bet if you searched you would find every dog breed has at some point somewhere bitten someone or something. If you muzzle one breed you have to muzzle all breeds.
That could be a start. Having to be kept on a lead in public. Banning dogs from parks. I'm sure these would be unpopular with dog owners but would protect those of us with no interest in dogs other than to protect our children.
In the year to March 2011, there were 6097 hospitalisations in the UK due to dog bites, a rise of 94% from ten years earlier.
Why am I not surprised by those statistics . Trophy dogs , bought by track suit wearing knuckle dragging morons.
Agree. It's fine for people who own a breed of dog with a record of aggressive behaviour to say 'he wouldn't hurt a fly', but have they ever experienced being attacked by one of these breeds?
My wife was badly bitten in an attack by a pit bull terrier earlier this year. She was out walking our spaniel who was on the lead. A scumbag with two PBTs off their leads approached her and one of them went nuts and attacked our dog. It then clamped it's jaws onto my wife's arm. The owner just stood and watched. Then when the dog finally let go, with my wife in a heap on the floor covered in mud and blood, he said 'he's never done that before' - and still refused to put the dog on a lead. We had a £700 vet bill and my wife has been quite seriously traumatised by what happened. The only saving grace is she decided to leave the baby at home with her mum. I shudder to think what might have happened if she hadn't and the dog had jumped into the pushchair.
That dog should be destroyed but the police were next to useless when it came to committing resources to finding the owner.
For me, all pit bull terriers should be muzzled and kept on a lead at all times while out walking.
If you don't like it, then don't buy that breed. There's plenty of others to choose from.
To many people on here playing god!!! I've got a staff, she is well behaved and I would leave her with anyone. I'm not a knuckle dragger, She wasn't bred for violence and I certainly don't need her to make me harder. If you have never owned this breed of dog then what gives you the right to say I shouldn't have one??? You are all pathetic, I've had staffs since I was 14 and never has one hurt anyone. So yeah lets just destroy a lovely breed of dog just to please a few poncey cat owners
Surley its any pedigree dog breeders that are playing god.
To many people on here playing god!!! I've got a staff, she is well behaved and I would leave her with anyone. I'm not a knuckle dragger, She wasn't bred for violence and I certainly don't need her to make me harder. If you have never owned this breed of dog then what gives you the right to say I shouldn't have one??? You are all pathetic, I've had staffs since I was 14 and never has one hurt anyone. So yeah lets just destroy a lovely breed of dog just to please a few poncey cat owners
Surley its any pedigree dog breeders that are playing god.
As against "crossbreed" dog breeders? Could you please Explain that to me Baileys breeder decided not to breed one of her dogs this year because the dam was under the weather, not ill but out of coat and not looking 100%. Is that playing god? As this would have her second and final litter she was immediately retired, I was on the waiting list to have one of the puppies as I liked the potential parents like the others on ther list I was disappointed. You tell me at £1000 per puppy and with a the possibility of ten or more puppies, did she do the right thing or was she playing god?. She certainly lost a lot of money. All her dogs are xrayed for hip displacia and scored accordingly, the males are also tested for haemophilia. Any dog showing these would simple not be breed from. Is that playing god or doing the right thing? Baileys hip scores are 6-4 his elbows 0-0 I can show you baileys family tree going back 5 generations and would have produce fantastic tempermented progeny but he was neutered, is that playing god? I could go and see his parents, g/parents and siblings and cousins in a two hour drive we regularly are in touch should there be a problem with our dogs. While not disputing there are some bloody terrible breeders out there as there are rescues. If you had to pay £1000 for a puppy and have an interview as well as visit the kennels twice, that would make people think about the decision they are making, it's very easy to say "I want a dog" pick up a paper or go on gum tree drive ten miles, pay your £50 and leave with a dog. We've had stereotyping as far as dogs are concerned for years, 70s dobermans, 80s German Shepherds, 90s Rottweilers 00s it's the Bull breeds there's is always one common dominator, the owner!
In the case in point, and from what is known, the owner of these 5 dogs had them shut in the garden with a notice on the gate warning people of the presence of dogs. The teenager entered the garden despite the warning and was attacked.
Those are the facts as we know them.
I do wonder why the householder had 5 dogs in a small house and garden but I defend his right to have them, as I see it if the dogs are not from an illegal breed then he has done nothing wrong. It is the teenager that made the mistake of going into their territory, despite the warning sign, and for that she paid the ultimate price which is awful but not the fault of the dog owner.
I like the mini schnauzers but to small for me I really like the giant schnauzers but too big for the wife so we have opted for the standard the more I see and read about the breed I fall more in love with them I really can't wait to find the right breeder and move on to owning one
We have been to see a lady in Waltham abbey who is highly regarded and we have put our name on her next litter to be considered for a bitch
Have you a black or pepper salt macronate ??
NLA I've got a standard schnauzer best dog we've ever had, we've had German shepherds Airedales and old English sheep dogs! Great with kids good house dog, very intelligent (struggles with sudoku though). They love being trained! You won't regret having one as a member of your family!
The number of dog bites quoted above is still minute. According to ROSPA, around 4,000 people die each year from home accidents (that's more than are killed on the road) and according to the NHS over a 1mn children are taken to A&E each year having suffered an accident at home. So why haven't we all got safety (sic) cameras in our houses? Oh yeah, of course, may save lives but wouldn't generate any revenue. How about headlines like "evil teenager torments puppy"? How about the 120,000 (plus?) stray dogs in the country abandoned by their appalling owners? How about the 2,000 healthy dogs put down by Battersea every year? Etc, etc, etc. There's only one nasty, ignorant species here and it ain't dogs.
I think it's is as simple as that to be honest if you legislate the sale of dogs any dogs then the responsibility of the new potential owners are put to test
Before I can get my new dog the breeder is doing a house visit to ensure that our dwelling is suitable on top of me visiting her and going to some shows where the whole breed will be on display ( my choice )
It may seem excessive but I quite like the idea that she is as keen to ensure that her dogs potential new owners are able and capable of taking on a new dog
If there was a licence to be purchased and the money used like the rod licence in fishing to police and manage the control of dogs in the uk then many of these incidents would be removed
Didn't NLA say on a previous post that he had a Staff that kept biting people ? Assuming NLA offered the animal an environment of care etc why would the animal do this ?
It is in their genes. If anyone seriously thinks their little pooch is totally harmless then I would say they are wrong. Owners can certainly bring out the worst in a dog as it is their natural instinct. They can try to bring out the best in a dog but they can not surpress DNA and that will overcome.
I'm, normally, reluctant to comment on these type of threads as some people have really strong emotional feelings about the subject but following an incident with my son last year and the arrogant behaviour of the owners of the dogs I would, personally, not object to a law that banned all dogs.
As owners of dogs that have been bread to be as violent and aggressive as possible have said, all dogs can snap and attack children (and adults), so let's ban them all.
You can tell from the above that I am not a dog lover - I've never had one and don't ever plan to.
Until such time as those that have dogs for a good reason and look after then properly can give a 100% assurance that no more of our children will be hurt I think we can expand the 'blame the owner' to 'blame those in power for doing nothing about it'! In order to own a shot gun one needs to have an interview with the Police, a medical report needs to be completed by a doctor and then you need to be 'reviewed' every five years.
I don't know the stats but I'm guessing that fewer children are shot by shotguns in an average year than that are bitten by dogs.
All the time there is a good reason for the UK population to be refused ownership of hand guns I see no reason as to why dogs should be allowed to run around public places frightening children and in extreme cases hurting them.
Before those on here jump on me asking what should happen to the dogs already out there? Well as sad as it is I agree that there is no alternative. We didn't refuse to cull all the livestock that were infected with foot and mouth a couple of years ago so yes, they all get put down.
It's about priorities. I know it's drastic but I would rather have thousands of dogs put down than have one more child mutilated by a group of them and that is not because I'm especially worried that it will be my child. I don't want anyone else to ever have to bury their child because a dog killed it!
I know this will not be a universally popular view but it is my view and abuse and ridicule from those of you that don't agree will not change my mind.
I did have one that bit and I tried hard to get this out of him but unfortunately after a fair amount of money and professional help it couldn't be rectified but the same can be said for humans you get wrong uns
It is not fair to tarnish the whole breed with the same brush
I noticed there was a prob and done something about it others would have relished that the dog was aggressive and made it more so and used it as a weapon
Comments
A dog with an irresponsible owner can go off without it's owner.
A gun with an irresponsible owner cannot go off on it's own.
Have no views either way just wanted to point out your your statement didnt make sense to me.
Actually there have been cases where people have been killed by a gun in a house without the owner being there, someone else playing about with it and its actually gone off. So it does make a bit of sense what he said .
In the world of training and showing dogs I am considered a complete novice (and rightly so) while Bailey is one of not many PAT dogs the rest of what I do is considered basic stuff. Yet to some folk it is considered an exceptional standard and thats worrying.
I do what do with Bailey to try and remove the stigma attached to dogs especially Sheps, there is a guy who cant be much older than 20 with a Staff and he dresses exactly as described in one comment above, his dog is trained to a standard I could only dream about. Yet he would be considered a trophy dog with a thug of an owner.
As the saying goes " Blame the Deed not the Breed"
I don't mind dogs but I was bitten as a kid by the family dog & that put me off owning one, especially with 2 small kids around (one of whom has already been bitten by a neighbours dog - not the dog's fault).
We actually have a big coyote problem, they will definitely attack small kids - you have to have your wits about you at all times!
Probably guilty of your last point with one of mine though...
I'm sure these would be unpopular with dog owners but would protect those of us with no interest in dogs other than to protect our children.
My wife was badly bitten in an attack by a pit bull terrier earlier this year. She was out walking our spaniel who was on the lead.
A scumbag with two PBTs off their leads approached her and one of them went nuts and attacked our dog. It then clamped it's jaws onto my wife's arm.
The owner just stood and watched. Then when the dog finally let go, with my wife in a heap on the floor covered in mud and blood, he said 'he's never done that before' - and still refused to put the dog on a lead.
We had a £700 vet bill and my wife has been quite seriously traumatised by what happened.
The only saving grace is she decided to leave the baby at home with her mum. I shudder to think what might have happened if she hadn't and the dog had jumped into the pushchair.
That dog should be destroyed but the police were next to useless when it came to committing resources to finding the owner.
For me, all pit bull terriers should be muzzled and kept on a lead at all times while out walking.
If you don't like it, then don't buy that breed. There's plenty of others to choose from.
The owner should go to jail and the dogs destroyed but you answered the problem when you said the OB don't have the Time to do anything
That's why stricter controls on who is allowed to have any type of dog is required
If red is not on the wind up then post with debate and argument in mind not just post looking for reaction
Could you please Explain that to me
Baileys breeder decided not to breed one of her dogs this year because the dam was under the weather, not ill but out of coat and not looking 100%. Is that playing god? As this would have her second and final litter she was immediately retired, I was on the waiting list to have one of the puppies as I liked the potential parents like the others on ther list I was disappointed. You tell me at £1000 per puppy and with a the possibility of ten or more puppies, did she do the right thing or was she playing god?. She certainly lost a lot of money. All her dogs are xrayed for hip displacia and scored accordingly, the males are also tested for haemophilia. Any dog showing these would simple not be breed from. Is that playing god or doing the right thing? Baileys hip scores are 6-4 his elbows 0-0 I can show you baileys family tree going back 5 generations and would have produce fantastic tempermented progeny but he was neutered, is that playing god? I could go and see his parents, g/parents and siblings and cousins in a two hour drive we regularly are in touch should there be a problem with our dogs.
While not disputing there are some bloody terrible breeders out there as there are rescues. If you had to pay £1000 for a puppy and have an interview as well as visit the kennels twice, that would make people think about the decision they are making, it's very easy to say "I want a dog" pick up a paper or go on gum tree drive ten miles, pay your £50 and leave with a dog.
We've had stereotyping as far as dogs are concerned for years, 70s dobermans, 80s German Shepherds, 90s Rottweilers 00s it's the Bull breeds there's is always one common dominator, the owner!
Those are the facts as we know them.
I do wonder why the householder had 5 dogs in a small house and garden but I defend his right to have them, as I see it if the dogs are not from an illegal breed then he has done nothing wrong. It is the teenager that made the mistake of going into their territory, despite the warning sign, and for that she paid the ultimate price which is awful but not the fault of the dog owner.
You won't regret having one as a member of your family!
According to ROSPA, around 4,000 people die each year from home accidents (that's more than are killed on the road) and according to the NHS over a 1mn children are taken to A&E each year having suffered an accident at home. So why haven't we all got safety (sic) cameras in our houses? Oh yeah, of course, may save lives but wouldn't generate any revenue.
How about headlines like "evil teenager torments puppy"? How about the 120,000 (plus?) stray dogs in the country abandoned by their appalling owners? How about the 2,000 healthy dogs put down by Battersea every year? Etc, etc, etc. There's only one nasty, ignorant species here and it ain't dogs.
I think it's is as simple as that to be honest if you legislate the sale of dogs any dogs then the responsibility of the new potential owners are put to test
Before I can get my new dog the breeder is doing a house visit to ensure that our dwelling is suitable on top of me visiting her and going to some shows where the whole breed will be on display ( my choice )
It may seem excessive but I quite like the idea that she is as keen to ensure that her dogs potential new owners are able and capable of taking on a new dog
If there was a licence to be purchased and the money used like the rod licence in fishing to police and manage the control of dogs in the uk then many of these incidents would be removed
It is in their genes. If anyone seriously thinks their little pooch is totally harmless then I would say they are wrong. Owners can certainly bring out the worst in a dog as it is their natural instinct. They can try to bring out the best in a dog but they can not surpress DNA and that will overcome.
As owners of dogs that have been bread to be as violent and aggressive as possible have said, all dogs can snap and attack children (and adults), so let's ban them all.
You can tell from the above that I am not a dog lover - I've never had one and don't ever plan to.
Until such time as those that have dogs for a good reason and look after then properly can give a 100% assurance that no more of our children will be hurt I think we can expand the 'blame the owner' to 'blame those in power for doing nothing about it'! In order to own a shot gun one needs to have an interview with the Police, a medical report needs to be completed by a doctor and then you need to be 'reviewed' every five years.
I don't know the stats but I'm guessing that fewer children are shot by shotguns in an average year than that are bitten by dogs.
All the time there is a good reason for the UK population to be refused ownership of hand guns I see no reason as to why dogs should be allowed to run around public places frightening children and in extreme cases hurting them.
Before those on here jump on me asking what should happen to the dogs already out there? Well as sad as it is I agree that there is no alternative. We didn't refuse to cull all the livestock that were infected with foot and mouth a couple of years ago so yes, they all get put down.
It's about priorities. I know it's drastic but I would rather have thousands of dogs put down than have one more child mutilated by a group of them and that is not because I'm especially worried that it will be my child. I don't want anyone else to ever have to bury their child because a dog killed it!
I know this will not be a universally popular view but it is my view and abuse and ridicule from those of you that don't agree will not change my mind.
It is not fair to tarnish the whole breed with the same brush
I noticed there was a prob and done something about it others would have relished that the dog was aggressive and made it more so and used it as a weapon