There is not a single breed of dog that is born naturally inclined to attack humans. There are some that don't like other dogs and obviously there are the ones originally bred as rat killers that will go after anything small and furry on instinct but not humans. If its been mistreated or taught specifically to be violent then that is a different story, that was how it was trained, not how it was born. My dad owned a rescue dog that had been abandoned by its owner, he was a big German Shepherd and would surely not be a people-friendly dog, but with love and discipline he never did more than bark at anyone. Since then there's been another GS and a Staff that we've had, and neither of them have done any harm beyond maybe making a postman jump.
If you want to talk about maybe having a license to own or breed dogs that can be dangerous to humans in certain circumstances, that's a fair opinion. But saying dogs who have never hurt anyone and never would should be put down is throwing babies out with bath water in a massive way.
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
Nor was my 8 year old son!
Edit - He wasn't attacked in real sense of the world, he was chased by dogs that barked and jumped up at him. The point is that they were in a public place and not under control. These women were not wearing shell suits. They are proper middle class women. They have £60k Range Rovers and £1m houses, and they failed to keep their dogs under control. They even told me that it is my problem that my son doesn't like dogs.
It's old news, and I'm over it, but it does demonstrate that not all dogs that behave in an unacceptable fashion belong to hooligans from poor housing estates in shell suits and Burberry baseball caps.
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
Nor was my 8 year old son!
Nor that deer that one of them ripped the throat out of a while back.
Interesting point around the dog ban / cull debate though - what if they are a legitimate tool-of-the-trade ?
Farmers, gamekeepers, rescue and emergence services, drug dealers etc ?
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
That doesn't make my point any less valid..... Why only muzzle outside and not at all times? It's clear attacks happen at home because of this last one so 24 hour muzzling for every breed is the only way to truly stop it.
I'm, normally, reluctant to comment on these type of threads as some people have really strong emotional feelings about the subject but following an incident with my son last year and the arrogant behaviour of the owners of the dogs I would, personally, not object to a law that banned all dogs.
As owners of dogs that have been bread to be as violent and aggressive as possible have said, all dogs can snap and attack children (and adults), so let's ban them all.
You can tell from the above that I am not a dog lover - I've never had one and don't ever plan to.
Until such time as those that have dogs for a good reason and look after then properly can give a 100% assurance that no more of our children will be hurt I think we can expand the 'blame the owner' to 'blame those in power for doing nothing about it'! In order to own a shot gun one needs to have an interview with the Police, a medical report needs to be completed by a doctor and then you need to be 'reviewed' every five years.
I don't know the stats but I'm guessing that fewer children are shot by shotguns in an average year than that are bitten by dogs.
All the time there is a good reason for the UK population to be refused ownership of hand guns I see no reason as to why dogs should be allowed to run around public places frightening children and in extreme cases hurting them.
Before those on here jump on me asking what should happen to the dogs already out there? Well as sad as it is I agree that there is no alternative. We didn't refuse to cull all the livestock that were infected with foot and mouth a couple of years ago so yes, they all get put down.
It's about priorities. I know it's drastic but I would rather have thousands of dogs put down than have one more child mutilated by a group of them and that is not because I'm especially worried that it will be my child. I don't want anyone else to ever have to bury their child because a dog killed it!
I know this will not be a universally popular view but it is my view and abuse and ridicule from those of you that don't agree will not change my mind.
Firstly, I have no wish to abuse and ridicule you or opinion as you are entitled to have it, but allow me to try and offer another opinion. I'll breakdown your statement and answer it the best way I can.
I'm, normally, reluctant to comment on these type of threads as some people have really strong emotional feelings about the subject but following an incident with my son last year and the arrogant behaviour of the owners of the dogs I would, personally, not object to a law that banned all dogs.
****Bailey was attacked by a dog as a puppy and I also was appalled by the arrogance of the owner/handler her attitude towards others was a disgrace, the same dog went for but fortunately didnt connect with a child a while later. Like minded people as myself tried to discuss this with her. But her arguement was, she was as entitled to use the area as the next person. These people are out there in all walks of life, as my wife just said. 96 people died watching football, our son was given a slap at a Charlton match and she would have no problem if that was banned tomorrow would that be fair on an honest law abiding citizen as yourself that knows how to behave at the football. No, but it should be banned because you have the potential to become a hooligan and give someone a good hiding at the game of course it shouldn't. ****
"Until such time as those that have dogs for a good reason and look after then properly can give a 100% assurance that no more of our children will be hurt I think we can expand the 'blame the owner' to 'blame those in power for doing nothing about it'! In order to own a shot gun one needs to have an interview with the Police, a medical report needs to be completed by a doctor and then you need to be 'reviewed' every five years."
****Of course every law abiding person in the country does exactly that, but as you are aware there are people out there with guns that dont really give a toss about the law, personally I would have no problem with a competence test with my handling skills with my dogs every few years, with Bailey he has passed all 3 levels of Good Citizen awards bronze/silver/gold, moved on to working trials and some aspects of IPO/Schutzhund and last year qualifed as a Therapy dog allowing him with me to visit schools, hospitals and hospices etc and on returning to good health will continue training. Yes, Bailey has the potential to seriously hurt someone, but his continued training can only reduce that %. Comparing dogs hurting children to guns, I'm not sure about that. One child hurt is to many, I agree. So lets ban cars because they hurt children a lot more!***
I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I think you maybe someone that I contacted about dog issues. Apologys if I am wrong, but that offer still stands if thats the case. As an aside to that, as someone that has strong opinions on dogs and their control. I would be interested in your opinions on the threads concerning Bailey meets the Upbeats and more recently his visit Jon's (3blokesfromfblock) school. Too add, while you are entitled to comment on what ever thread you choose, I wondered what your you views are on what I would class a positve thread on dogs and their behaviour.
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
That doesn't make my point any less valid..... Why only muzzle outside and not at all times? It's clear attacks happen at home because of this last one so 24 hour muzzling for every breed is the only way to truly stop it.
The number of dog bites quoted above is still minute. According to ROSPA, around 4,000 people die each year from home accidents (that's more than are killed on the road) and according to the NHS over a 1mn children are taken to A&E each year having suffered an accident at home. So why haven't we all got safety (sic) cameras in our houses? Oh yeah, of course, may save lives but wouldn't generate any revenue. How about headlines like "evil teenager torments puppy"? How about the 120,000 (plus?) stray dogs in the country abandoned by their appalling owners? How about the 2,000 healthy dogs put down by Battersea every year? Etc, etc, etc. There's only one nasty, ignorant species here and it ain't dogs.
Good post as well. Not to take anything away from anyone who has been hurt by a pet, but for a 'nation of animal lovers' a large number of people do treat them like shite as well. Laws and punishments should be a lot, lot stricter. As an aside, it's still legal to own a primate inside your home which is shocking. Obviously that then fuels the illegal trade...
Again, going back to upbringing... You'd bet as well that large number of people who have 'malicious' animals also have unruly kids.
If red is not on the wind up then post with debate and argument in mind not just post looking for reaction
What point/statememt have I posted, that has not been posted by other posters on the same side of the debate/argument as myself, leads you to keep claiming I am on a 'wind up'?
I did have one that bit and I tried hard to get this out of him but unfortunately after a fair amount of money and professional help it couldn't be rectified but the same can be said for humans you get wrong uns
It is not fair to tarnish the whole breed with the same brush
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
That doesn't make my point any less valid..... Why only muzzle outside and not at all times? It's clear attacks happen at home because of this last one so 24 hour muzzling for every breed is the only way to truly stop it.
Didn't NLA say on a previous post that he had a Staff that kept biting people ? Assuming NLA offered the animal an environment of care etc why would the animal do this ?
It is in their genes. If anyone seriously thinks their little pooch is totally harmless then I would say they are wrong. Owners can certainly bring out the worst in a dog as it is their natural instinct. They can try to bring out the best in a dog but they can not surpress DNA and that will overcome.
Biting to a dog is about as natural as us punching someone. They do it in play, frustration, defence, because unlike us they dont have hands.
Stopping a dog biting should start as a puppy, watch a puppy playing with their siblings evolves play biting it is trained out of them, that is not acceptable behaviour in our world. Do nothing and it while worsen, it is certainly possible although nothing is 100% You say its in their genes, Bailey obviously a German Shepherd Dog. The clue would be in the name, he's a Sheep dog. With Shep's they are also a loyal and intelligent breed who will with their lives defend their family. Bailey will defend me as owner, but its for me to tell when I need defending. Using that the wrong way, would be very wrong of me, thats not to say I havent when feeling threatened whispered a command to him that removed a threat. Suppressing the DNA in dogs, is why there are the good breeders out there. Unsurprisingly Bailey was bred for temperament. Breeders are looking as well as testing for health issues, temperament etc before putting dogs together, not just chucked in the kitchen for a quick bunk up
Didn't NLA say on a previous post that he had a Staff that kept biting people ? Assuming NLA offered the animal an environment of care etc why would the animal do this ?
It is in their genes. If anyone seriously thinks their little pooch is totally harmless then I would say they are wrong. Owners can certainly bring out the worst in a dog as it is their natural instinct. They can try to bring out the best in a dog but they can not surpress DNA and that will overcome.
Biting to a dog is about as natural as us punching someone. They do it in play, frustration, defence, because unlike us they dont have hands.
Stopping a dog biting should start as a puppy, watch a puppy playing with their siblings evolves play biting it is trained out of them, that is not acceptable behaviour in our world. Do nothing and it while worsen, it is certainly possible although nothing is 100% You say its in their genes, Bailey obviously a German Shepherd Dog. The clue would be in the name, he's a Sheep dog. With Shep's they are also a loyal and intelligent breed who will with their lives defend their family. Bailey will defend me as owner, but its for me to tell when I need defending. Using that the wrong way, would be very wrong of me, thats not to say I havent when feeling threatened whispered a command to him that removed a threat. Suppressing the DNA in dogs, is why there are the good breeders out there. Unsurprisingly Bailey was bred for temperament. Breeders are looking as well as testing for health issues, temperament etc before putting dogs together, not just chucked in the kitchen for a quick bunk up
Everyone saying "they should be muzzled outside" and "shouldn't be allowed in parks" are you losing sight of the fact, the last attack happened at home. So do we have police randomly knocking on dog owners door at 3 in the morning to check their dog's got it's muzzle on?
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
My wife wasn't attacked at home.
That doesn't make my point any less valid..... Why only muzzle outside and not at all times? It's clear attacks happen at home because of this last one so 24 hour muzzling for every breed is the only way to truly stop it.
Ok, muzzle pit bull terriers at all times.
But aren't Pitbulls illegal ?
Yes they were supposed have been. What's happened though is people have cross bred them with staffies and mastifs and the like. Therefore they are really just mongrels like any other cross. And that is why I said making staffs illegal is wrong and wouldn't work. The only people to suffer would be responsible owners.
I recently supervised a learning disabled lad while he was working at the Dogs Trust on his first day of a placement, we started off with some very soppy but friendly spaniels and collie crosses. But actually the centre is mostly full of unwanted staffies and staffie x's. The one that the centre felt was most friendly for the lad to work with was instantly quite aggressive. While I'm sure there are plenty of well mannered dogs of this breed there are problems, that is undeniable.
Yes and I wouldn't leave Mickey alone with a child. As lovely as he is, he's got a few little issues still.
To lighten the mood a little, he has been a good guard dog, or so i thought, until I had a friend staying last week. Mickey hadn't met her yet and she let herself in last Friday night about 11pm. I didnt hear her but I turned round to to see her walk through the kitchen and Mickey stood up to bark but he took one look at her and sidled across the floor to her with his head down for a stroke.
He then went back to his basket where he laid on his back with his legs up in the air and waited for her to come and tickle his tum. The reason im boring you all with this is that my friend is a very very attractive woman... Mickey is such a flipping bloke!!
Yes and I wouldn't leave Mickey alone with a child. As lovely as he is, he's got a few little issues still.
To lighten the mood a little, he has been a good guard dog, or so i thought, until I had a friend staying last week. Mickey hadn't met her yet and she let herself in last Friday night about 11pm. I didnt hear her but I turned round to to see her walk through the kitchen and Mickey stood up to bark but he took one look at her and sidled across the floor to her with his head down for a stroke.
He then went back to his basket where he laid on his back with his legs up in the air and waited for her to come and tickle his tum. The reason im boring you all with this is that my friend is a very very attractive woman... Mickey is such a flipping bloke!!
Issues??? Please dont tell me he still goes in that pub on a working night?? I'm a failure!! ;(
Comments
If you want to talk about maybe having a license to own or breed dogs that can be dangerous to humans in certain circumstances, that's a fair opinion. But saying dogs who have never hurt anyone and never would should be put down is throwing babies out with bath water in a massive way.
I agree you should be strictly vetted before you are allowed to buy a dog, not just a staff but every breed of dog. I'm not sure what the criteria should be but whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever dog you want to purchase.
Edit - He wasn't attacked in real sense of the world, he was chased by dogs that barked and jumped up at him. The point is that they were in a public place and not under control. These women were not wearing shell suits. They are proper middle class women. They have £60k Range Rovers and £1m houses, and they failed to keep their dogs under control. They even told me that it is my problem that my son doesn't like dogs.
It's old news, and I'm over it, but it does demonstrate that not all dogs that behave in an unacceptable fashion belong to hooligans from poor housing estates in shell suits and Burberry baseball caps.
Interesting point around the dog ban / cull debate though - what if they are a legitimate tool-of-the-trade ?
Farmers, gamekeepers, rescue and emergence services, drug dealers etc ?
Lots of incidents happen at home and in public areas
It is a difficult issue but you do only hear of the bad dogs very rare you hear about good dogs
I'll breakdown your statement and answer it the best way I can.
Again, going back to upbringing... You'd bet as well that large number of people who have 'malicious' animals also have unruly kids.
Stopping a dog biting should start as a puppy, watch a puppy playing with their siblings evolves play biting it is trained out of them, that is not acceptable behaviour in our world. Do nothing and it while worsen, it is certainly possible although nothing is 100%
You say its in their genes, Bailey obviously a German Shepherd Dog.
The clue would be in the name, he's a Sheep dog. With Shep's they are also a loyal and intelligent breed who will with their lives defend their family. Bailey will defend me as owner, but its for me to tell when I need defending. Using that the wrong way, would be very wrong of me, thats not to say I havent when feeling threatened whispered a command to him that removed a threat.
Suppressing the DNA in dogs, is why there are the good breeders out there. Unsurprisingly Bailey was bred for temperament. Breeders are looking as well as testing for health issues, temperament etc before putting dogs together, not just chucked in the kitchen for a quick bunk up
To lighten the mood a little, he has been a good guard dog, or so i thought, until I had a friend staying last week. Mickey hadn't met her yet and she let herself in last Friday night about 11pm. I didnt hear her but I turned round to to see her walk through the kitchen and Mickey stood up to bark but he took one look at her and sidled across the floor to her with his head down for a stroke.
He then went back to his basket where he laid on his back with his legs up in the air and waited for her to come and tickle his tum. The reason im boring you all with this is that my friend is a very very attractive woman... Mickey is such a flipping bloke!!
Please dont tell me he still goes in that pub on a working night??
I'm a failure!! ;(
How's he settling in, besides his weakness for attractive women.