Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
We can add Bell to the list along with Shah and Solanki. Time for the fat boy to get a call up me thinks.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.[/quote]
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
I couldn't disagree with any of that but that would mean KP at 3 a spot which he doesn't want to fill. 4 is probably too high for Ravi too which then means Colly at 4 which is too high for him.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
Whould SHOULD bat at three for England?
Of those playing in this match Collingwood is probably most suited temperamentally although others are theoretically better, more talented players.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
Whould SHOULD bat at three for England?
Of those playing in this match Collingwood is probably most suited temperamentally although others are theoretically better, more talented players.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Bopara is typical of the type of batsmen we've been producing. Decent one day players but temperament and technique not good enough to be playing at the top of the order in Tests. It's all about occupying the crease and we don't do it enough.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
Whould SHOULD bat at three for England?
As I say the Fat One.
You make a good case. Key's batting average for England at number three is 40.92. But Bopara's (including the first innings today at Leeds) is 44.50.
I couldn't disagree with any of that but that would mean KP at 3 a spot which he doesn't want to fill. 4 is probably too high for Ravi too which then means Colly at 4 which is too high for him.
...........
KP at number three...no. He looks shaky when he first comes into bat and while he has the talent and temperament his skill is as a stroke-maker/run scorer, batting at three you have to be a compiler of runs and be determined to set a target, i.e. be a bit of a street fighter in the mold of David Boon, Michael Vaughan, Jacques Kallis, Ricky Ponting etc. Success is about bloody-mindedly imposing yourself on the opposition, not scoring a quick 40 and getting out. Anyway I don't think KP is good against the new ball so batting KP at three would netralise his strengths and highlight his weaknesses.
Colly - no, he has the temperament, but not the technique, he's suited to batting five/six(no higher) and looking after the tail.
So who should bat at three...I can't see anyone in the English game who has the right attributes who hasn't disqualified himself (eg Trescothick). I see a couple have of people upthread have advocated Ramps..no, he scores most of his runs down the order for Surrey and has effectively retired internationally. Rob Shah and Ian Bell have batted there recently and neither looked convincing.
That leaves Rob Key or Mark Butcher, both of whom have the technique and have had some experience but neither are in consistently good form, and I realise that Rob Key has scored hundreds in his last three matches. So Bopara has ended up batting at three through default, the other positions in the order are taken.
Can't watch as I'm at work. Is this really just bad batting from England or is the ball doing anything to make us feel encouraged that the ball might do something when we bowl later?
[cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]Can't watch as I'm at work. Is this really just bad batting from England or is the ball doing anything to make us feel encouraged that the ball might do something when we bowl later?
Both - bad shots, movement and a line up that, for the first time since 2003 against Bangladesh is without KP and Freddie.
[cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]Can't watch as I'm at work. Is this really just bad batting from England or is the ball doing anything to make us feel encouraged that the ball might do something when we bowl later?
Both, the ball is seaming about a bit, but our batsmen appear to have been following and playing at it.
Comments
We can add Bell to the list along with Shah and Solanki. Time for the fat boy to get a call up me thinks.
He has the talent to be a good Test cricketer, but I made the point when he was first picked at #3 for England that it was the wrong position for him. In this Test he's had to come in against the new ball and that doesn't suit his style. He should be batting at four/five or six. At three you have to bat with the intention of occupying the crease for several hours. Very few batsmen come straight into Test cricket and go more or less straight into the number three slot. Ponting for example is arguably the best in the world at that position and he batted down the order for quite afew Tests before graduating to #3.
As it is very likely now that we will lose this test, we need to select a better batsman in that position for the decider.
I couldn't disagree with any of that but that would mean KP at 3 a spot which he doesn't want to fill. 4 is probably too high for Ravi too which then means Colly at 4 which is too high for him.
As I say the Fat One.
Of those playing in this match Collingwood is probably most suited temperamentally although others are theoretically better, more talented players.
Temperamentally definitely, technically not imho.
...........
KP at number three...no. He looks shaky when he first comes into bat and while he has the talent and temperament his skill is as a stroke-maker/run scorer, batting at three you have to be a compiler of runs and be determined to set a target, i.e. be a bit of a street fighter in the mold of David Boon, Michael Vaughan, Jacques Kallis, Ricky Ponting etc. Success is about bloody-mindedly imposing yourself on the opposition, not scoring a quick 40 and getting out. Anyway I don't think KP is good against the new ball so batting KP at three would netralise his strengths and highlight his weaknesses.
Colly - no, he has the temperament, but not the technique, he's suited to batting five/six(no higher) and looking after the tail.
So who should bat at three...I can't see anyone in the English game who has the right attributes who hasn't disqualified himself (eg Trescothick). I see a couple have of people upthread have advocated Ramps..no, he scores most of his runs down the order for Surrey and has effectively retired internationally. Rob Shah and Ian Bell have batted there recently and neither looked convincing.
That leaves Rob Key or Mark Butcher, both of whom have the technique and have had some experience but neither are in consistently good form, and I realise that Rob Key has scored hundreds in his last three matches. So Bopara has ended up batting at three through default, the other positions in the order are taken.
I'd call up Rob Key.
Both - bad shots, movement and a line up that, for the first time since 2003 against Bangladesh is without KP and Freddie.
Both, the ball is seaming about a bit, but our batsmen appear to have been following and playing at it.
Chizz - you sticking with that ;-)
Good bowling and poor batting.