My surname Bingham is Anglo-Saxon, it means "the place where Bynnas people live". I too am from imigrant stock.
As Bonnie Greer said, we know from the study of the human genome, that we all come from the same group of homo sapiens who spread out of Africa.
What Griffin and his Nazi cronies are doing is trying to create a false ideal just like the Germans did with their racial purity beliefs around the so-called "master race".
These are exactly 100% the same points that were being put forward by the National Front in the 1960's. I debated long with NF supporters who wanted to keep Britain racially pure. The BNP have just re-packaged that old policy, started wearing suits and brogues instead of Levi Sta-press and Doctor Martins. Nobody should, and hopefully after last nights programme, nobody will be fooled. Finding a new way of presenting the filth they pedal but staying within the race laws, denying the holocaust and then saying you have changed your mind but can't explain why is the only way he can avoid the truth of his position. Finding a scape goat and then using it as a way of providing the focus of blame for people who have had a difficult economic time is what Naziism was about. Thats why by their actions, they are Nazi's.
It's up to main stream politicians to start addressing the reasonable aspirations of ordinary people, and deal with their fears and grumbles, without blaming one group versus another, but by listening and positive action. Getting Griffin on should be the start of that process because he ain't the answer, he ain't even the question.
I am glad I watched the programme, and I suppose to most who watched, already with their own notions of what he was about, he just re-enforced your belief. To me though, he came over as the odious, ludicrous buffoon that I expected. In my view, to any neutrals watching, he would have put off many more than he would have converted by that shifty, lie-driven, sweaty performance.
Agree with BFR, that if we had of been taught that its not "weird" or "yucky" referring to stilladdicteds post then we probably wouldn't think that now. we need to accept i guess that its just different to what we grew up knowing or not knowing and our views are reflective of the education we received. if children are not taught these things until an older age, will they compose views and opinions of their forefathers which may be out of date and wrong? it isn't people's fault that they thnk certain things but it is ultimately down to the curriculum being taught. we can't control that when we're growing up or the time we grew up and what the curriculum was at the time, but we can change it for the future for the next generation and prevent it being an issue. we also need to reeducate ourselves. preventing education of topics which the mr griffin was suggests is not helpful. He is trying to discourage something from happening that he sees as unnatural and disgusting. thats disgusting in itself.
except very few anglo saxons came over and those that did interbred with the Celtish Britons who were already here.
Then the Vikings came but mainly in the north.
It's funny that the BNP wants to go back to pre-war as they see that as before large scale non-white immigration.
But in the 30s the same things were being said by the Blackshirts about the Jews.
Before that there was mass Irish, French and German immigration and I'd guess that most of us who would look like "indigenous" Btitish people at first glance are a long way from pure anglo-saxons.
The whole idea of racial purity is just stupid as is any idea of going back to pre-WWII. Are we really going to send Chris Powell "home"?
[cite]Posted By: FTP[/cite]
I really hope that they would not see anyone kissing like that whilst at junior school. It would really be a matter for parents to deal with in any depth. I can't imagine that they are just saying that some men love each other.
School trips? Outings with friends? anywhere or anytime, no matter what age. why would you hope that they wouldn't see "anyone kissing like that?" I'm not sure if thats come out like you meant it to.
it only seems bizarre for you to think a child might ask that because it is unfamiliar to you. its not wrong, you/me/everybody just need to retrain your brain to understand that it is normal.
just reread that and it sounds like i'm attacking you, which i'm not, but its just the way you wrote what you did makes you look bad - i think!
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]except very few anglo saxons came over and those that did interbred with the Celtish Britons who were already here.
Then the Vikings came but mainly in the north.
It's funny that the BNP wants to go back to pre-war as they see that as before large scale non-white immigration.
But in the 30s the same things were being said by the Blackshirts about the Jews.
Before that there was mass Irish, French and German immigration and I'd guess that most of us who would look like "indigenous" Btitish people at first glance are a long way from pure anglo-saxons.
The whole idea of racial purity is just stupid as is any idea of going back to pre-WWII. Are we really going to send Chris Powell "home"?
argh! this annoyed me this morning too. In Griffin's defence he never said anyone should be sent 'home' as he was asked a couple of times by people in the audience that were british born but had parents from elsewhere that had moved here years ago. he poorly replied "you can stay" which did make it sound like he was doing them a favour, but at the same time, he said that anyone can stay as long as the numbers are counted and verfied and that the country retains a british majority with christian beliefs. How he intends to ensure that happens i have no idea but i'm getting fed up with everyone asking which country they should go back to as that was never his point.
although i'm trying not to stick up for him cos i found him vile.
Why? If young children ask questions, they surely deserve an answer that is accurate and reflects their current level of understanding. If for example a child asks 'why are those men kissing'
Isn't the point that the child has asked? That is entirly different than having the information forced on them by a school when they may or may not be ready to accept or understand it.
That is a discussion for parents to have with their children not the school, certainly not at primary age.
watch the video I linked to earlier and he clearly mentions sending them all back.
Anyone else heard the report this morning that after last night there has been a large increase in white people seeking partners from different ethnic backgrounds after it was pointed out that Nick Griffin was a prime example of what happens when a pure bloodline is offered little or no genetic diversity.
No problem with men kissing, but it has to be acknowled that this can cause offence in public because attitudes don't change overnight. In the early 1970's me and my girlfriend were asked to leave the Horse and Groom in Sidcup because we were kissing - today you could probably get away with full sex - as long as you weren't smoking.
To be honest I vote BNP and I have no grip about doing so, this does'nt however mean that I share all of the views of Nick Griffin or am a racist, for example if you vote conservative it does’nt mean you like to dress up in leather and get whipped in a dungeon by a madam, the mainstream parties have failed the us badly and British culture has been eroded for the sake of nothing more than cheap labour rates. Yes a good percentage of BNP members are racists but this does’nt mean voting for them automatically makes you one, you can agree with certain policies of a political party without agreeing with them all, I have looked at both Labour and Conservative manifestos over the years and can hand on heart say that very little of them purpose to better my day to day circumstances, I dont believe for one second the BNP will gain any significant power but the establishment will take note and hopefully take my (protest) vote on board, this is the good thing about democracy I am making my vote count in my opinion, if you live or have lived in the poorer areas of society you will have seen first hand the impact “multiculturism” has, I really don’t care about skin colours etc (my brother is mixed race and my step dad black) but I do care about “being British” and what that means for all of the people past and present that have fought for that, by all means bring your familes, settle in this country and prosper but by doing so you should adopt the culture of that country not demand your own and in doing that tear apart the moral fabric that culture has upheld. Anyway the most ironic thing about the for/against BNP thing is that the mass immigration of white eastern Europeans has brought it into the frey.
Can you honestly not see the value of some of the other cultures that immigration has brought into this country then? Im not asking to start an argument, im just interested.
I never profess to understanding much about politics but i really enjoy Question time as it seems to keep me as informed as my useless brain can handle.
I was glad that Griffin was given air time it is only fair as a recognised political party that he was allowed, Me i sort of favour UKIP over the BNP although i dont really feel any of them will make a real difference.
The only reason that i dont vote BNP is because they are with out a doubt a Racist organisation and Racism is something that i despise.
But i dont think that anyone on that show did themselves any favours last night Dimbelby refusing members of the public their opportunity to gain answers and that was wrong.
The Conservatives and Labour, Lib Dem all showed themselves up as the weak and gutless cowards that have resulted in this country being in the state that it is,
The feeble attempts of easy vote wins by picking holes in Nick griffins charecter was unnceseary we all know that he is a racist Biggot what were you proving by highlighting it.
The should have got him to disclose how his party would solve, the monetary black hole we find ourselves in, the growing unemployment, the state of the NHS lawless britain and so on.
over all the programme failed to deliver anything than good news for the BNP if not Griffin because valid questions on unemployment and immigration were failed to be answerd by any of the parties atleast the BNP had a plan, flawed yes it may have been but they had the gutts to say what it was.
Labour,Conservatives,BNP,Libs
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU you are all as bad as eachother you all lie you all are dicieptfull you all are biggots in one shape or other .
Thats why this country has gone to the dogs not because of the BNP but beacuse all the parties in this country are wrong for the average man and woman black or white
[cite]Posted By: Bennyhill[/cite], I dont believe for one second the BNP will gain any significant power but the establishment will take note and hopefully take my (protest) vote.
They are already gaining power in a number of areas. If we all registered a "protest" vote for them, guess what, we would all have what we don't want! Plenty of other parties who would be better recipients of "protest" votes (IMO)!
How far back do you want to go to be indigenous ? the people of Australia and the red indians in the USA are imigrants ?
Its not about what Griffin says or has done. as many on here have said its the total failure of the Labour party.There would be no MEPs had their vote not fallen apart
I cant see how you can be "against" some one for their skin colour , but i was and still am against the mass imigration of the past 4 years. One fundemental aim of HM Gov is tp protect us , instead of screaming RACIST whem people warned them what would happenwith the EU open border policy they could have seen and planned for it. maybe asked for extra funds from the EU so the pressure on jobs/housing /NHS wouldnt have been as great as it is. They could have stopped translation services which cost us the tax payer £300 million a year. Used the money to help transition. Ask your self this----- why in the migrant camps in France arnt those people seeking work in France ? why havnt they asked for asylum in France ? why are they determined to come here ?
We are told we are all in Europe , yet the French cap utility charges to less then 10% and EDF is majority owned by the French Gov but can charge us what they like ! The Italians put in laws ages back to protect their own workforce-- why havnt we done this ? arnt we part of the same EU ?
HM Gov took us into 2 wars with the lie its to protect the UK ? yet they ignore British islamic fundematalim in our own cities which has a real threat not like the BNP which arnt any sort of threat. Theythrow £45 million at muslim yoof groups but dont see its their own policies which are helping create the problem.
They have failed totaly -- in every way to look after the intrests ofthe Uk population.
As for labour in London here is a warning -- its not the BNP you should be worried about its the Respect Party-- who get their cash from Muslim Fundermentalists who fought and won a ward in east London where the siting MP was Una King (a Jewish lady)where they played the anti semism card big time-- and they are fighting every ward this time in east london. If that not enough Bob Crow is planning to start a workers party --- where you geting the cash from Bob ? wouldnt be South American would it ?
the nearest thing genetically to indigenous Britains are apparently the welsh, who were pushed westwards, from their original location in Kent - I read/saw somewhere once
Perhaps Bennyhill has hit the nail on the head. It's not about indiginous people it's about indiginous culture and values, which have evolved over time. The problem is the confusion of these two issues and creating fear of being racist for supporting/promoting traditional british values. Being neutral on multi-culturalism and positive about indiginous culture and values should not be seen as racist - but it would be and I don't understand why. Cultures and values merge and change through natural interaction and some friction. External political engineering can only cause greater friction by forcing change at an unatural pace. The BNP is capitalising on this lack of leadership from our politicians and lack of confidence in our national identity to pursue a hidden racist agenda.
Notthat long ago 20 years - ish we where being told that Stonehenge was built by the Druids. Now we know its as old as the Pyramids.
The Anglo Saxons (and Celtic brits) had no culture and were barbarians so we where taught. We were told it was the "dark ages" as there was no real written word. Yet when looking at the culture of the Aboriginal peoples we are told they have " a rich oral tradition" as they to didnt write any thing down.
In the deserts of China (Gobi ?) they have know found tombs of CELTIC warriors 1,000 of years before they where supposed to be there. One is a tall red haired woman in a tarten skirt.
someone maybe would like to tell me how long you have to be a resident of a country to be indigenous ? 1,000 years ? 10,000 ?
[cite]Posted By: Se12Addick[/cite]Can you honestly not see the value of some of the other cultures that immigration has brought into this country then? Im not asking to start an argument, im just interested.
Im sorry mate but I just cant see any value I appreciate other cultures look at the great things other cultures have achieved but that doesnt mean I want to live them.
[cite]Posted By: Se12Addick[/cite]Can you honestly not see the value of some of the other cultures that immigration has brought into this country then? Im not asking to start an argument, im just interested.
Sorry i should rephrase that I mean I dont want my culture replaced by them which I fear is whats happening
[cite]Posted By: Dippenhall[/cite]Perhaps Bennyhill has hit the nail on the head. It's not about indiginous people it's about indiginous culture and values, which have evolved over time. The problem is the confusion of these two issues and creating fear of being racist for supporting/promoting traditional british values. Being neutral on multi-culturalism and positive about indiginous culture and values should not be seen as racist - but it would be and I don't understand why. Cultures and values merge and change through natural interaction and some friction. External political engineering can only cause greater friction by forcing change at an unatural pace. The BNP is capitalising on this lack of leadership from our politicians and lack of confidence in our national identity to pursue a hidden racist agenda.
GH said "someone maybe would like to tell me how long you have to be a resident of a country to be indigenous ? 1,000 years ? 10,000 ?"
Good question, DFT said it was obvious so maybe he can explain.
Dippenhall, Griffin didn't speak about indigenous cultures but indigenous people".
Of course it is a meaningless thing to say as GH points out which is why, IMHO, Ali Wibble asked the question in the first place.
We could argue all day long about what is "indigenous" culture but I'd say eating Indian food, drinking German beer and listening to American and Caribbean music would be right up there.
Comments
As Bonnie Greer said, we know from the study of the human genome, that we all come from the same group of homo sapiens who spread out of Africa.
What Griffin and his Nazi cronies are doing is trying to create a false ideal just like the Germans did with their racial purity beliefs around the so-called "master race".
These are exactly 100% the same points that were being put forward by the National Front in the 1960's. I debated long with NF supporters who wanted to keep Britain racially pure. The BNP have just re-packaged that old policy, started wearing suits and brogues instead of Levi Sta-press and Doctor Martins. Nobody should, and hopefully after last nights programme, nobody will be fooled. Finding a new way of presenting the filth they pedal but staying within the race laws, denying the holocaust and then saying you have changed your mind but can't explain why is the only way he can avoid the truth of his position. Finding a scape goat and then using it as a way of providing the focus of blame for people who have had a difficult economic time is what Naziism was about. Thats why by their actions, they are Nazi's.
It's up to main stream politicians to start addressing the reasonable aspirations of ordinary people, and deal with their fears and grumbles, without blaming one group versus another, but by listening and positive action. Getting Griffin on should be the start of that process because he ain't the answer, he ain't even the question.
I am glad I watched the programme, and I suppose to most who watched, already with their own notions of what he was about, he just re-enforced your belief. To me though, he came over as the odious, ludicrous buffoon that I expected. In my view, to any neutrals watching, he would have put off many more than he would have converted by that shifty, lie-driven, sweaty performance.
it isn't people's fault that they thnk certain things but it is ultimately down to the curriculum being taught. we can't control that when we're growing up or the time we grew up and what the curriculum was at the time, but we can change it for the future for the next generation and prevent it being an issue. we also need to reeducate ourselves. preventing education of topics which the mr griffin was suggests is not helpful. He is trying to discourage something from happening that he sees as unnatural and disgusting. thats disgusting in itself.
Then the Vikings came but mainly in the north.
It's funny that the BNP wants to go back to pre-war as they see that as before large scale non-white immigration.
But in the 30s the same things were being said by the Blackshirts about the Jews.
Before that there was mass Irish, French and German immigration and I'd guess that most of us who would look like "indigenous" Btitish people at first glance are a long way from pure anglo-saxons.
The whole idea of racial purity is just stupid as is any idea of going back to pre-WWII. Are we really going to send Chris Powell "home"?
School trips? Outings with friends? anywhere or anytime, no matter what age. why would you hope that they wouldn't see "anyone kissing like that?" I'm not sure if thats come out like you meant it to.
it only seems bizarre for you to think a child might ask that because it is unfamiliar to you. its not wrong, you/me/everybody just need to retrain your brain to understand that it is normal.
just reread that and it sounds like i'm attacking you, which i'm not, but its just the way you wrote what you did makes you look bad - i think!
argh! this annoyed me this morning too. In Griffin's defence he never said anyone should be sent 'home' as he was asked a couple of times by people in the audience that were british born but had parents from elsewhere that had moved here years ago. he poorly replied "you can stay" which did make it sound like he was doing them a favour, but at the same time, he said that anyone can stay as long as the numbers are counted and verfied and that the country retains a british majority with christian beliefs. How he intends to ensure that happens i have no idea but i'm getting fed up with everyone asking which country they should go back to as that was never his point.
although i'm trying not to stick up for him cos i found him vile.
Let's pull up the drawbridge and sterilise the non-christians.
Isn't the point that the child has asked? That is entirly different than having the information forced on them by a school when they may or may not be ready to accept or understand it.
That is a discussion for parents to have with their children not the school, certainly not at primary age.
Anyone else heard the report this morning that after last night there has been a large increase in white people seeking partners from different ethnic backgrounds after it was pointed out that Nick Griffin was a prime example of what happens when a pure bloodline is offered little or no genetic diversity.
: - )
I disagree ;-)
I think you are wrong but that's what democracy is about.
What do your brother and step dad think about you voting for the BNP?
Brave and honest and a great post well done.
I never profess to understanding much about politics but i really enjoy Question time as it seems to keep me as informed as my useless brain can handle.
I was glad that Griffin was given air time it is only fair as a recognised political party that he was allowed, Me i sort of favour UKIP over the BNP although i dont really feel any of them will make a real difference.
The only reason that i dont vote BNP is because they are with out a doubt a Racist organisation and Racism is something that i despise.
But i dont think that anyone on that show did themselves any favours last night Dimbelby refusing members of the public their opportunity to gain answers and that was wrong.
The Conservatives and Labour, Lib Dem all showed themselves up as the weak and gutless cowards that have resulted in this country being in the state that it is,
The feeble attempts of easy vote wins by picking holes in Nick griffins charecter was unnceseary we all know that he is a racist Biggot what were you proving by highlighting it.
The should have got him to disclose how his party would solve, the monetary black hole we find ourselves in, the growing unemployment, the state of the NHS lawless britain and so on.
over all the programme failed to deliver anything than good news for the BNP if not Griffin because valid questions on unemployment and immigration were failed to be answerd by any of the parties atleast the BNP had a plan, flawed yes it may have been but they had the gutts to say what it was.
Labour,Conservatives,BNP,Libs
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU you are all as bad as eachother you all lie you all are dicieptfull you all are biggots in one shape or other .
Thats why this country has gone to the dogs not because of the BNP but beacuse all the parties in this country are wrong for the average man and woman black or white
They are already gaining power in a number of areas. If we all registered a "protest" vote for them, guess what, we would all have what we don't want! Plenty of other parties who would be better recipients of "protest" votes (IMO)!
Its not about what Griffin says or has done. as many on here have said its the total failure of the Labour party.There would be no MEPs had their vote not fallen apart
I cant see how you can be "against" some one for their skin colour , but i was and still am against the mass imigration of the past 4 years.
One fundemental aim of HM Gov is tp protect us , instead of screaming RACIST whem people warned them what would happenwith the EU open border policy they could have seen and planned for it. maybe asked for extra funds from the EU so the pressure on jobs/housing /NHS wouldnt have been as great as it is. They could have stopped translation services which cost us the tax payer £300 million a year. Used the money to help transition.
Ask your self this----- why in the migrant camps in France arnt those people seeking work in France ? why havnt they asked for asylum in France ? why are they determined to come here ?
We are told we are all in Europe , yet the French cap utility charges to less then 10% and EDF is majority owned by the French Gov but can charge us what they like ! The Italians put in laws ages back to protect their own workforce-- why havnt we done this ? arnt we part of the same EU ?
HM Gov took us into 2 wars with the lie its to protect the UK ? yet they ignore British islamic fundematalim in our own cities which has a real threat not like the BNP which arnt any sort of threat. Theythrow £45 million at muslim yoof groups but dont see its their own policies which are helping create the problem.
They have failed totaly -- in every way to look after the intrests ofthe Uk population.
As for labour in London here is a warning -- its not the BNP you should be worried about its the Respect Party-- who get their cash from Muslim Fundermentalists who fought and won a ward in east London where the siting MP was Una King (a Jewish lady)where they played the anti semism card big time-- and they are fighting every ward this time in east london. If that not enough Bob Crow is planning to start a workers party --- where you geting the cash from Bob ? wouldnt be South American would it ?
The Anglo Saxons (and Celtic brits) had no culture and were barbarians so we where taught. We were told it was the "dark ages" as there was no real written word. Yet when looking at the culture of the Aboriginal peoples we are told they have " a rich oral tradition" as they to didnt write any thing down.
In the deserts of China (Gobi ?) they have know found tombs of CELTIC warriors 1,000 of years before they where supposed to be there. One is a tall red haired woman in a tarten skirt.
someone maybe would like to tell me how long you have to be a resident of a country to be indigenous ? 1,000 years ? 10,000 ?
Im sorry mate but I just cant see any value I appreciate other cultures look at the great things other cultures have achieved but that doesnt mean I want to live them.
Sorry i should rephrase that I mean I dont want my culture replaced by them which I fear is whats happening
+1 :-)
Good question, DFT said it was obvious so maybe he can explain.
Dippenhall, Griffin didn't speak about indigenous cultures but indigenous people".
Of course it is a meaningless thing to say as GH points out which is why, IMHO, Ali Wibble asked the question in the first place.
We could argue all day long about what is "indigenous" culture but I'd say eating Indian food, drinking German beer and listening to American and Caribbean music would be right up there.
Seriously,Well done all.