I don't know why this topic has gone so off topic with all the defintions of indigenousness, Griffin has made it quite clear that his version of 'indigenous Britain' starts with pre-world war 2 where he has this strange illusion of Britain being dominantly white with an unshakable togetherness against the Nazi hordes about to dominate the world, a priviledge the British had reserved for themselves for hundreds of years, this version of Britain couldn't be much further from the truth as there is much evidence of a disjointed sense of Britishness based mainly upon class and an ever increasing intolerance of races from outside Britain, and I'm not just talking about black people....
Griffin's version of post war Utopian Britain was partially dismantled by the catastrophic human casualties and partial destruction of the industrial and residential infrastruture, without the huge immigration of mainly commonwealth citizens this country would have never have recovered at the pace it did...
The failure of Griffin to recognise the contribution made by these immigrants is probably the most discerning part of his insecure diatribe and many grateful 'indigenous' Brits see his intention to 'repatriate' these social heroes as totally immoral and reprehensible...
I have played, lived and worked with black people for over fifty years, I don't look upon them 'foreigners' anymore, they are as British as me and the contribution they have made to make Britain what it is today is as irrerversible as the fact they are here to stay.....
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Im not sure who US are ? im almost sure its not YOU, but it could be THEM. I know its ok to slag US off but its defo racist to slag THEM off. Most of THEM come here to be US. Maybe when them become US we can slag everyone of THEM off !!!!!!!!
I dont know if I'm the only one but I see the BNP as an important causal influence on British politics. People masquerade under the mask of what they think is acceptable (especially the BBC) and this is not democratic. I agree with above comments that the BNP have gone too far; they are a vile, hateful and dillusional group of human beings. But one thing they have done is brought to the surface a clearer picture of how Britain as a whole sees the state of a once great nation. I personally felt that Nick Griffin was never going to be allowed a fair say (rightly or wrongly) and that in the end there was little to be gained from the discussion. I also felt that Nick Griffin raised some legitimate points in regards to foreign policy and cultural integration in Britain. I would not vote for the BNP now or in the future, but I do believe that thay have done a positive thing in allowing the public to see democracy in practice. They have widened the political spectrum to include extremist views, and this in turn has allowed great discussion and reflection about how the public view the future of this country. This is surely progression and evolution from the racism that has dogged Britain in the 21st Century, not a movement back towards it.
More than a fifth of voters would consider backing the British National Party in a future election, according to an opinion poll taken in the hours after leader Nick Griffin's appearance on BBC1's Question Time.
Some 22% of those questioned said they would "seriously consider" voting BNP in a local, European or general election - including 4% who said they would "definitely" consider backing the party, 3% who would "probably" consider it, and 15% who said they were "possible" BNP voters.
Around two-thirds of those questioned by YouGov for the Daily Telegraph said they would not vote BNP "under any circumstances", with the rest unsure.
The total figure is more than three times the 6.2% which the BNP secured in this June's European Parliament ballot - its best ever showing in a national election - and suggests that there is substantial potential for Mr Griffin to extend his party's reach. It vastly outstrips the party's 0.7% score in the 2005 general election.
When asked how they would vote in an election tomorrow, the proportion backing the BNP stood at 3%, up from 2% a month ago.
More than half of those surveyed agreed with the BNP or thought the party "had a point" in wishing to "speak up for the interests of the indigenous, white British people... which successive governments have done far too little to protect".
This included 43% who said that they had no sympathy for the BNP itself, though they shared some of its concerns.
Some 12% of those questioned said they completely agreed with the BNP, against 38% who said they disagreed totally with the party's politics.
YouGov questioned 1,314 adult voters across Britain online today and last night, following the Question Time broadcast.
What i don't get is plenty of people on here with there big words and clever answers that have all jumped on the P.C bandwagon . People are voting for the B.N.p. because they are fed up with feeling like nobody cares for their country, now someone will tell me to define "their country" we all know what i mean . I could not care if you are black yellow or any other colour if you are living in a foreign land I believe you should try to live in harmony with the people of that country, I believe a lot of our M.Ps and our media are making that difficult.
I wonder also how many of the people on C.l and other blog's after watching Griffin on tv are slagging him off are the same people twenty years ago where making monkey noices at the back of the covered end and other places.
People seem to have a problems with the word or definition for indigenous, so replace it with the word majority. Therefore its basically anyone who doesn't describe themselves as a minority. Because if there is no majority how can there be a minority?
[cite]Posted By: Colin in Thailand.[/cite]I wonder also how many of the people on C.l and other blog's after watching Griffin on tv are slagging him off are the same people twenty years ago where making monkey noices at the back of the covered end and other places.
20 years ago we were playing our home games at Selhurst Park.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]so no examples of anyone not being allowed to celebrate xmas.
Some stupid 'winterval' from last century but no one stopped from celebrating anything.
Hey, im white, i thought i was englsh but i cant trace my bloodline back 25 generations to the middle ages so im obviously not idigenous enough
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]so no examples of anyone not being allowed to celebrate xmas.
Some stupid 'winterval' from last century but no one stopped from celebrating anything.
Hey, im white, i thought i was englsh but i cant trace my bloodline back 25 generations to the middle ages so im obviously not idigenous enough
The winterval thing gets an airing every christmas...
There was an article in the Guardian de-bunking it a few years back. Essentially the centre of Birmingham was redeveloped (the area around the Bull Ring) as it was a concrete eyesore. Birmingham council decided to hold an open house that lasted from November into early spring and therefore thought that calling it an Xmas festival was a bit limiting as it would give the impression that the timing was just before/after Xmas when they wanted to highlight the improvements for considerably longer. The Mayor at the time pointed out that there was a big "Happy Christmas" sign on the side of the Town hall, that he signed and sent out Christmas cards with "Happy Christmas" in them and that Christmas was celebrated as normal in the city with decorations, carols, a tree, lights etc.
It's coming up to that season again soon, when the first official whine about Birmingham celebrating winterval will be published in the Daily Mail?
Don't you find it utterly amazing when people bang on about Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Scandinavian and Anglo-Celtic????? Does anybody have a clue of historically the waves of invasion since Roman times? The Celtic/Gaullic diaspora and civilisation was superseded and conquered starting really with Caesar's invasion and defeat of Vercingetorix. Do you think when it became Roman Gaullia that all the Gaul's became Romans? Do you think when the Romans invaded all the Celts became Roman? Do you think when the Saxons or Normans invaded we all became Saxons or Normans?
Jesus Christ is walking past my window. Modern studies of DNA show that the 'indigenous' people of Briton share DNA which is Basque of origin. WTF about all this Anglo stuff, we've absorbed centuries of differing culures. The indigenous people of this country are Basque let's all go and create a Basque assembly. I am not against Christian caucasian law and custom's remaining integral to society, but if you haven't got a clue about the polyglot nature/history of this country it just goes to prove how wildly innacurate pretty much all the ludicrous innacurate hyperbole that comes out of the BNP. Dear, dear, dear 17,000 years of history?????? Hmmm the Angles and Saxons came after the Romans......... and were the last 'settlers' so we must be Anglo Saxon.
Winterval? No St George flags in Braford? Have you ever been to Bradford? It's a pretty damn racist city but you're a lucky man if you get a Caucasian taxi driver. All this heresay nearly always turns out be rubbish on inspection, or on the odd occassion just some moron poorly interpreting guidelines. Winterval was an attempt to promote the season of different culutres celebration, in order to celebrate the re-modelling of Birmingham city center. They didn't tell the Chinese to celebrate Winterval, they didn't tell the Anglo-Saxons to celebrate Winterval and they didn't tell Hindus to celebrate Winterval. Winterval lasted four months a pretty strange new Xmas eh?
I don't deny the feelings that lead BNP supporters to vote for them. If you live in the poorer parts of town you face the brunt of immigration, and clearly if you visit a place like Barking it ain't a visibly positive influence. In fact if most people saw and lived within that town they'd certainly have some immediate sympathies with BNP supporters' emotions. It's just ashame that those that shout and represent the BNP just about do fuck all in their contribution to British society, but yet they still believe 'their people' should receive state supported housing above all others. There used to be a time when the white working class were politically motivated to positively improve their lot. Now it seems the white working class are only vocally supported in British politics by those that have negative politics from a lobitimised idiot.
Hmmm I wonder why Churchill's plan was called Operational Unthinkable and concluded Britain's chances were 'fancible' at best. And then his general staff told him in no uncertain terms even if the unthinkable happened their was no chance of success. Even during one of his epic amnic phases he must have been champing at his bit to get it on.
Colin - I am looking forward to people waking up and then trying to demolish your well constructed arguement.
I find it amazing how many ways others have found to avoid saying white people with British accents.
"Now it seems the white working class are only vocally supported in British politics by those that have negative politics from a lobitimised idiot" probably sums it up for a lot of people. They can then dress it as a protest vote and sleep easy.
Colin, whilst I agree with the undeniable facts of British history I do have one point.
All modern humans come from Africa, native Americans bred with the white European invaders, the Vikings are also now thought to have turned up there and settled . And yet we still recognise them as being indigenous Americas. why is Europe so different just because our history is more closely recorded?
[cite]Posted By: Colin in Thailand.[/cite]What i don't get is plenty of people on here with there big words and clever answers that have all jumped on the P.C bandwagon .
People are voting for the B.N.p. because they are fed up with feeling like nobody cares for their country, now someone will tell me to define "their country" we all know what i mean . I could not care if you are black yellow or any other colour if you are living in a foreign land I believe you should try to live in harmony with the people of that country, I believe a lot of our M.Ps and our media are making that difficult.
I wonder also how many of the people on C.l and other blog's after watching Griffin on tv are slagging him off are the same people twenty years ago where making monkey noices at the back of the covered end and other places.
Colin be careful...according to a couple of posters on here the other day it's no longer 'politicly correct' to use the term 'politicly correct'......it'll not stop the likes of 'politicly incorrect' folk like you and me though will it........you gotta laugh mate!!
Colin, see my earlier post for the other side of argument (other studies conflict with what you say - but just go right ahead and pick the one that supports your predetermined standpoint) - but you've read that already, right?
And yes, of course, the best explanation that we have so far is that, in the end, we are all Africans. So why do we still have 'ethnic monitoring questionnaires'?
There's a pub in South Shields called the Adam and Eve, but judging the behaviour and demeanor of the local clientele I think their ancestry probably started and finished in the neanderthal period though..
It does make me laugh this left/right thing in this country. Quoting from that organ of new labour the guardian as gospel whilst dismissing anything in the organ of middle-England the Dail Mail The fact is that the Daily Mail has 4 times the circulation of the Guardian, however, in my oponion both papers are vile and sum up everything that is wrong in our class/race obsessed country
Bigstemarra, it appears to be an interesting study. At a quick glance without having an in depth knowledge of it, though some recollection of the Norwegian and Danish influence in England - Danelaw anyone? -, I would say it is a small study looking at the East West migration of peoples from said Norway/Denmark. The fact that Norfolk and Northumbria has the biggest historical and genetic link to Denmark would mean that to me it's findings are no surprise. To draw wider comprehensive conclusions from such a small study is ludicrous.
As quoted it was seven small towns sampled, so I'd hazard it's a limited study to specifically analyse an area where they new there was a high chance for a comprehensive conclusion. Such a small and focused study can pose interesting questions, but can not contradict pan British genetic history only highlight region specific genetics which at best may influence further studies; especially when the research concurrs with the wider British genetic history studies on where genetic makeup would be higher for Anglo Danish/Saxon. To further research is admirable.... Are the chromosomes of these Frieslanders from both men and women and what of these chromosomes are shared by close Europeans neigbours?
What usually happens with these studies is pisspot journalists take part of the conclusion, without caveats, and breeze block it into the debate as a universal absolute truth.
If you were to look into Weale's research you'd find out it's conclusions are contradicted by larger sample-size research. Yes there is a debate to be had about our genetic history, as there is a debate to be had about lack of social mobility and immigration. Using a study which analyses a tiny part of the British Isles to draw conclusions and make a supposed apposite whole British Isles argument is bordering on sophistry of the worst kind.
So no I didn't use an arguement that just suits my predetermined outlook, and no I didn't, unlike the BNP, wholly inaccurately portray a tiny interesting piece of research to draw a ridiculous conclusion; usually their information ain't even based on rigorous research . The BNP use utterly false arguements and bad science to hide their true hatred, whilst the success of this country in the modern age has always been rigorous debate, and most definitely in London re-invigoration through differing waves of immigration. I'm not against a debate on immigration, I'm just saddened that the BNP and it's ilk shout the loudest with such odious and idiotic preceived truths. The solution I do not know, but I sure as hell know the BNP's is unowrkable economically, socially and morally as proved time and time again throughout history.
the main point STILL is that the only real reason that people have turned to the BNP is the total failure on the two main parties. Only this week Alan Johnson still says he see no problem with the popoulation of the Uk exploding---- he wont let the EU take over imigration policy !! ( they have already you TWOT) etc etc etc. Whilst imigartion can and is defended by able agruements ignoring the impacts of such huge numbers in such a smal time was DISGRACEFUL and calling everyone who points at the pit falls as racists just dosnt work any more.
This saturday a group calling itself Islam4Uk will march through London, this was the group (by another name) a few years back marched with all the hate filled signs. OB only nicked them EVENTUALLY when the public kicked up. They are calling for the over throw of the Royal family-- Shira law (all of it ) and a muslim state in the UK. So who will be out there opposing them ? Will it be the Unions ? or the students ? or Respect ? or the Labour party ? how about the 500 who demonstrated out side the BBC last week ?or the UAF ? The Church of England ? 5 Star generals ? Islamic fundermentalism is very homophobic, seeks to take empowerment from women etc etc yet who will be there to oppose them ? maybe the Labour Gov will give another £45 million to muslim yoof just in case they are a tad pissed off about soething or other.
People turning to the BNP ? maybe some of the so called anti facists should see the above and ask why on earth people would !
Comments
Some stupid 'winterval' from last century but no one stopped from celebrating anything.
Hey, im white, i thought i was englsh but i cant trace my bloodline back 25 generations to the middle ages so im obviously not idigenous enough
Griffin's version of post war Utopian Britain was partially dismantled by the catastrophic human casualties and partial destruction of the industrial and residential infrastruture, without the huge immigration of mainly commonwealth citizens this country would have never have recovered at the pace it did...
The failure of Griffin to recognise the contribution made by these immigrants is probably the most discerning part of his insecure diatribe and many grateful 'indigenous' Brits see his intention to 'repatriate' these social heroes as totally immoral and reprehensible...
I have played, lived and worked with black people for over fifty years, I don't look upon them 'foreigners' anymore, they are as British as me and the contribution they have made to make Britain what it is today is as irrerversible as the fact they are here to stay.....
That is quality !
More than a fifth of voters would consider backing the British National Party in a future election, according to an opinion poll taken in the hours after leader Nick Griffin's appearance on BBC1's Question Time.
Some 22% of those questioned said they would "seriously consider" voting BNP in a local, European or general election - including 4% who said they would "definitely" consider backing the party, 3% who would "probably" consider it, and 15% who said they were "possible" BNP voters.
Around two-thirds of those questioned by YouGov for the Daily Telegraph said they would not vote BNP "under any circumstances", with the rest unsure.
The total figure is more than three times the 6.2% which the BNP secured in this June's European Parliament ballot - its best ever showing in a national election - and suggests that there is substantial potential for Mr Griffin to extend his party's reach. It vastly outstrips the party's 0.7% score in the 2005 general election.
When asked how they would vote in an election tomorrow, the proportion backing the BNP stood at 3%, up from 2% a month ago.
More than half of those surveyed agreed with the BNP or thought the party "had a point" in wishing to "speak up for the interests of the indigenous, white British people... which successive governments have done far too little to protect".
This included 43% who said that they had no sympathy for the BNP itself, though they shared some of its concerns.
Some 12% of those questioned said they completely agreed with the BNP, against 38% who said they disagreed totally with the party's politics.
YouGov questioned 1,314 adult voters across Britain online today and last night, following the Question Time broadcast.
People are voting for the B.N.p. because they are fed up with feeling like nobody cares for their country, now someone will tell me to define "their country" we all know what i mean . I could not care if you are black yellow or any other colour if you are living in a foreign land I believe you should try to live in harmony with the people of that country, I believe a lot of our M.Ps and our media are making that difficult.
I wonder also how many of the people on C.l and other blog's after watching Griffin on tv are slagging him off are the same people twenty years ago where making monkey noices at the back of the covered end and other places.
20 years ago we were playing our home games at Selhurst Park.
What's that on the starboard bow?
glug glug glug
The winterval thing gets an airing every christmas...
There was an article in the Guardian de-bunking it a few years back. Essentially the centre of Birmingham was redeveloped (the area around the Bull Ring) as it was a concrete eyesore. Birmingham council decided to hold an open house that lasted from November into early spring and therefore thought that calling it an Xmas festival was a bit limiting as it would give the impression that the timing was just before/after Xmas when they wanted to highlight the improvements for considerably longer. The Mayor at the time pointed out that there was a big "Happy Christmas" sign on the side of the Town hall, that he signed and sent out Christmas cards with "Happy Christmas" in them and that Christmas was celebrated as normal in the city with decorations, carols, a tree, lights etc.
It's coming up to that season again soon, when the first official whine about Birmingham celebrating winterval will be published in the Daily Mail?
Jesus Christ is walking past my window. Modern studies of DNA show that the 'indigenous' people of Briton share DNA which is Basque of origin. WTF about all this Anglo stuff, we've absorbed centuries of differing culures. The indigenous people of this country are Basque let's all go and create a Basque assembly. I am not against Christian caucasian law and custom's remaining integral to society, but if you haven't got a clue about the polyglot nature/history of this country it just goes to prove how wildly innacurate pretty much all the ludicrous innacurate hyperbole that comes out of the BNP. Dear, dear, dear 17,000 years of history?????? Hmmm the Angles and Saxons came after the Romans......... and were the last 'settlers' so we must be Anglo Saxon.
Winterval? No St George flags in Braford? Have you ever been to Bradford? It's a pretty damn racist city but you're a lucky man if you get a Caucasian taxi driver. All this heresay nearly always turns out be rubbish on inspection, or on the odd occassion just some moron poorly interpreting guidelines. Winterval was an attempt to promote the season of different culutres celebration, in order to celebrate the re-modelling of Birmingham city center. They didn't tell the Chinese to celebrate Winterval, they didn't tell the Anglo-Saxons to celebrate Winterval and they didn't tell Hindus to celebrate Winterval. Winterval lasted four months a pretty strange new Xmas eh?
I don't deny the feelings that lead BNP supporters to vote for them. If you live in the poorer parts of town you face the brunt of immigration, and clearly if you visit a place like Barking it ain't a visibly positive influence. In fact if most people saw and lived within that town they'd certainly have some immediate sympathies with BNP supporters' emotions. It's just ashame that those that shout and represent the BNP just about do fuck all in their contribution to British society, but yet they still believe 'their people' should receive state supported housing above all others. There used to be a time when the white working class were politically motivated to positively improve their lot. Now it seems the white working class are only vocally supported in British politics by those that have negative politics from a lobitimised idiot.
I find it amazing how many ways others have found to avoid saying white people with British accents.
"Now it seems the white working class are only vocally supported in British politics by those that have negative politics from a lobitimised idiot" probably sums it up for a lot of people. They can then dress it as a protest vote and sleep easy.
All modern humans come from Africa, native Americans bred with the white European invaders, the Vikings are also now thought to have turned up there and settled . And yet we still recognise them as being indigenous Americas. why is Europe so different just because our history is more closely recorded?
Colin be careful...according to a couple of posters on here the other day it's no longer 'politicly correct' to use the term 'politicly correct'......it'll not stop the likes of 'politicly incorrect' folk like you and me though will it........you gotta laugh mate!!
And yes, of course, the best explanation that we have so far is that, in the end, we are all Africans. So why do we still have 'ethnic monitoring questionnaires'?
No one on CL think we all came from Adam and Eve then?
As quoted it was seven small towns sampled, so I'd hazard it's a limited study to specifically analyse an area where they new there was a high chance for a comprehensive conclusion. Such a small and focused study can pose interesting questions, but can not contradict pan British genetic history only highlight region specific genetics which at best may influence further studies; especially when the research concurrs with the wider British genetic history studies on where genetic makeup would be higher for Anglo Danish/Saxon. To further research is admirable.... Are the chromosomes of these Frieslanders from both men and women and what of these chromosomes are shared by close Europeans neigbours?
What usually happens with these studies is pisspot journalists take part of the conclusion, without caveats, and breeze block it into the debate as a universal absolute truth.
If you were to look into Weale's research you'd find out it's conclusions are contradicted by larger sample-size research. Yes there is a debate to be had about our genetic history, as there is a debate to be had about lack of social mobility and immigration. Using a study which analyses a tiny part of the British Isles to draw conclusions and make a supposed apposite whole British Isles argument is bordering on sophistry of the worst kind.
So no I didn't use an arguement that just suits my predetermined outlook, and no I didn't, unlike the BNP, wholly inaccurately portray a tiny interesting piece of research to draw a ridiculous conclusion; usually their information ain't even based on rigorous research . The BNP use utterly false arguements and bad science to hide their true hatred, whilst the success of this country in the modern age has always been rigorous debate, and most definitely in London re-invigoration through differing waves of immigration. I'm not against a debate on immigration, I'm just saddened that the BNP and it's ilk shout the loudest with such odious and idiotic preceived truths. The solution I do not know, but I sure as hell know the BNP's is unowrkable economically, socially and morally as proved time and time again throughout history.
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling shameful, Racist or partial
It just got more complicated!
;-)
This saturday a group calling itself Islam4Uk will march through London, this was the group (by another name) a few years back marched with all the hate filled signs. OB only nicked them EVENTUALLY when the public kicked up. They are calling for the over throw of the Royal family-- Shira law (all of it ) and a muslim state in the UK. So who will be out there opposing them ? Will it be the Unions ? or the students ? or Respect ? or the Labour party ? how about the 500 who demonstrated out side the BBC last week ?or the UAF ? The Church of England ? 5 Star generals ?
Islamic fundermentalism is very homophobic, seeks to take empowerment from women etc etc yet who will be there to oppose them ? maybe the Labour Gov will give another £45 million to muslim yoof just in case they are a tad pissed off about soething or other.
People turning to the BNP ? maybe some of the so called anti facists should see the above and ask why on earth people would !