[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]Tut tut tut, Henry. I saw the Celtic warrior joke before you editted it :-) Made me laugh, but it's a miracle this thread has stayed civil so far, so probably wasn't a good idea.
You're right about my point about indiginous British people. Britain's been invaded so many times, that if there are any people who could trace their genes solely back to theoriginalinhabitants of this island, they are going to be horribly interbred.
God this thread is depressing.
Griffin uses Indigenous when what he wants to say is white but they are not the same thing at all (not that is really matters to me but it obviously does to him.)
Does any country have truely indigenous people if we are talking genetically? Doubt it.
We are talking about people who are proud to be British or English, would fight for the country (hopefully in a war not related to oil or US interference). People that don't despise the people that represent the majority of the population, and certainly people that wont plan to attack people on their way to work in the morning with suicide bombs.
We have and still are a fairly tollerent population but surely allowing radical islamists to freely operate and preach in this country words that would be considered treason amongst Christians is just plain stupid
SE9 - i appreciate those sentiments, but i have had this conversation with plenty of non-whites and they all agree aswell. The black and asian communities in this country largely are NOT the ones kicking up a fuss about pride in British culture, its overly soft liberals who cant seperate pride from bigotry. But voting for the BNP isnt going to hurt those people, its going to hurt the immigrants who mostly dont care if we celebrate christmas or st.georges day and would happily let you do so.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Rothco --- Bing etc where and who do people like me turn to then ? cant be BNP for me as the mrs can chop about 6KG of chicken into bits in 10 seconds ! cant be Labour as they are TRAITORS to the the people of England and (IMO) the worst thing since the Norman conquest. Cant be Tories -- i just couldnt. There is the English Democrats Party but that is helping move towards the break up of the UK something which i find awful.
The saddest thing of all the English will have lost their own culture before they really knew what it was.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Rothco --- Bing etc where and who do people like me turn to then ? cant be BNP for me as the mrs can chop about 6KG of chicken into bits in 10 seconds ! cant be Labour as they are TRAITORS to the the people of England and (IMO) the worst thing since the Norman conquest. Cant be Tories -- i just couldnt. There is the English Democrats Party but that is helping move towards the break up of the UK something which i find awful.
The saddest thing of all the English will have lost their own culture before they really knew what it was.
EXACTLY WHERE I Am at who the fudge do i vote for when there is no one
this country needs to change and the stuffy bstds at the top need to look to joe public and offer them a solution or racist scumbags and useless looney paties are going to get votes, is it now the time for more local representation
Thing is Bing, for the most part the programme and most of those involved played slap bang into his hands by trying to resort to point scoring rather than allowing Griffin to hoist himself. In doing so most, IMO, managed to score points against themselves and completely failed to take the opportunity to damage the BNP or allow the BNP to damage itself.
[cite]Posted By: FTP[/cite]Does any country have truely indigenous people if we are talking genetically? Doubt it.
We are talking about people who are proud to be British or English, would fight for the country (hopefully in a war not related to oil or US interference). People that don't despise the people that represent the majority of the population, and certainly people that wont plan to attack people on their way to work in the morning with suicide bombs.
We have and still are a fairly tollerent population but surely allowing radical islamists to freely operate and preach in this country words that would be considered treason amongst Christians is just plain stupid
I mostly agree with all of that.
It's just that I think that most Black, Asian and so called "non-indigenous" people would too.
sold a good number of "proud to be anglo saxon " (showing the anglo saxon flag of the white dragon) badges last Saturday £3 each with 50p going to the Steadfast trust which campagns for an English culure/knowledge/comunity none of exists as such as yet. Also had a good few lapel badges of the St Georfe cross and the anglo saxon flag of the white dragon. The Anglo saxon badges sold out. One young lad asked his dad to buy him one, i had to say i would not wear it to school they might see it as racist--- which is pretty sad really. Almost as sad as Gordon Brown having the G20 here but being the only MP not to wear a lapel badge showing his country.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]Thing is Bing, for the most part the programme and most of those involved played slap bang into his hands by trying to resort to point scoring rather than allowing Griffin to hoist himself. In doing so most, IMO, managed to score points against themselves and completely failed to take the opportunity to damage the BNP or allow the BNP to damage itself.
showed all parties up to be weak the only people with any credit was the organisors of the show for having the balls to put nick griffin on there. shame they made the show so cowardly
those absolute idiots outside the bbc playing into the hands of the bnp and shouting shame on you bbc are the same folk that bang on about civil rights in china yet want to silence a view point n england because it differs from theirs
hypocricy is rife in this country from politics, the great unwashed and the beeb
In fact I have no problem with people applying for asylum through the correct process. I do however believe that people that are in this country illegally should not be roaming the streets. They should be held in a remote location, as in Australia until their claims have been checked then either deported or granted temporary access. The terms of this access would also have restrictions. Having to report to some sort of parol officer and completing some kind of voluntary work to cover their cost of living would be good.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]sold a good number of "proud to be anglo saxon " (showing the anglo saxon flag of the white dragon) badges last Saturday £3 each with 50p going to the Steadfast trust which campagns for an English culure/knowledge/comunity none of exists as such as yet. Also had a good few lapel badges of the St Georfe cross and the anglo saxon flag of the white dragon. The Anglo saxon badges sold out. One young lad asked his dad to buy him one, i had to say i would not wear it to school they might see it as racist--- which is pretty sad really. Almost as sad as Gordon Brown having the G20 here but being the only MP not to wear a lapel badge showing his country.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]MOG/P....who is it that you've had the most trouble with over the years?....I remember you getting mugged on your way home a while back(a really nasty cowardly thing on your own manor)....then crossing the road in Sydenham quite recently the two women and then the guy upstairs from you who threatened to stab you....you amaze me P....you must be very forgiving or thick skinned!
Believe me, I haven't got "Thick Skin" (I've got the scars to prove it !! ;-)).
I was mugged awhile back: walking home from the pub and knocked unconcious from behind. Didn't see the Attackers. Police "assumed" they were Black because it was near the Hazel Grove estate.........
Had trouble with a black woman whos car rolled back slightly and hit me on the leg whilst crossing the road because she was on the phone.........Ofcourse, I've never seen any White people on the phone in their cars have I ?
I take Every person I meet as an individual, and look beyond their skin colour.
You never had aggro with White people SoundAs ?
Edit: And Yes, I wear a Poppy and St.George Cross badges & celebrate St.Georges Day. Never had a problem with anyone about that.
Maybe not FTP but this has been a great, adult, mature and reasoned debate by everyone involved on this thread. I must say I am surprised it has done so well.
The notion of preserving ones own traditional culture is very fluid. I suppose bear baiting, serfdom, and public executions were all once part of an embedded culture, and the bowmen at Agincourt were fighting to preserve such activities. Now apparantly chicken tikka masala is the nations favourite food, i don't know if Indian restaurants have driven 'traditional' fish and chips out of existence....fish and chips have only been going about 130 years anyway.
Our language is very welcoming of 'foreign' words, 'pajamas' being Indian for example. language and culture moves and changes with the times. Is it possible to stick a pin into a moment and say...'Thats British Culture' (I believe Nick Griffin would like to pin it down to 1948)?
There are benefits to cross cultural interchange that we enjoy....Arabic doctors influenced the improved treatment of the sick when learned about during the times of the Crusades for example. If the BNP are standing up for Britishness, and British culture do they really know what they mean by that? They often talk of values such as tolerance, free speech, fair play, Democracy, Christianity....but there terms are elusive too.....the easy route to defining what is meant by those things is often to declare that it boils down to whiteness...hence attacks on non-white people. Extremists in other places are often very much the same, with targets defined by the existence of 'other' groups rather than by individual behaviour.
I am depressed by this thread because I fear for a polarised society, where separate groups are exploited by extremists.
In fact I have no problem with people applying for asylum through the correct process. I do however believe that people that are in this country illegally should not be roaming the streets. They should be held in a remote location, as in Australia until their claims have been checked then either deported or granted temporary access. The terms of this access would also have restrictions. Having to report to some sort of parol officer and completing some kind of voluntary work to cover their cost of living would be good.
And why should you have a problem.
I think it is part of our tradition that we offer asylum and a good thing.
Doesn't mean I don't think it couldn't be handled better and more quickly as it would be better for everyone. It would cost us less, real asylum seekers would get themselves sorted sooner and any bogus applicants could be removed.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I am depressed by this thread because I fear for a polarised society, where separate groups are exploited by extremists.
I hear what you are saying Seth, but this thread has actually encouraged me in that it has lasted for a while and not degenerated into the usual mess that political threads have fallen into in the past.
[cite]Posted By: FTP[/cite]In fact I have no problem with people applying for asylum through the correct process. I do however believe that people that are in this country illegally should not be roaming the streets.
FTP, the problem is, most of the people who are here illegally aren't asylum seekers. They're people who've come in on tourist or student visas, and have overstayed after the visa has expired.
my view is that society is less racist, less homophobic and more open to different experiences (food, etc) than it was when I was a teenager in the 1970s.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Maybe not FTP but this has been a great, adult, mature and reasoned debate by everyone involved on this thread. I must say I am surprised it has done so well.
But as you say - Come On You Reds!
Spot on, no name calling in general, apart from the accusations of being fascist. I served on a Union committe for 10 years helping people of all back grounds, I just see the situation at the moment as critical. We are letting the wrong people in, we are allowing people in who are criminals in their home country, of course they are going to be persecuted if they are criminals (not talking about political crimes)
Anyway, I was going. Just let's have none of this talk tomorrow as it may spoil the day.
Could you guys all sit down and iron out the differences between yourselves, form a party (The Valley Party sounds good) and I'll vote for you. Everything I want for my country has addressed in this thread. I watched last nights programme with interest and not being a political animal I prefer to steer clear of this sort debate, but I have learn't a bit today so thanks for that.
Initially a bit worried, I watched the question time last night wondering if Nick Griffin was going to come up with a coherent argument so profoundly watertight, well formed and reasonably put together that the entire basis of British and world politics would be turned upside down as the country sat back, staggered at the enormity of his intellect.
Fortunately this didn't happen.
Now, I will hold my hands up and state that politically I am a liberal, a social democrat, that's where I stand. Also, I find Mr Griffin a repugnant human being though I think the BBC did the right thing in giving him an opportunity to respond and air his views. I fully expected to be enraged to the point of distraction, swearing at the TV and grinding my teeth but as the programme went on, I found I was less enraged and actually quite relieved. Nick Griffin is clearly a complete idiot.
As the programme progressed and Griffin answered questions put to him he seemed utterly at a loss, isolated, a fish out of water. I kind of felt sorry for him, he really does not have a clue. Far from being annoyed with his views I found myself thinking.."is that it? Is that really the best argument you can come up with?" The one thing that sticks in my mind is that he seems to base his entire political philosophy on the notion that 17000 years ago, there was once an indigenous pure British race, and are therefore entitled to inherit the idea of nation that didn't exist 17000 years ago. Griffin is the kid at the back of the class that just doesn't get it so throws rubbers around when the teacher isn't looking.
I could go on and on about the things wrong with Griffins views, but I really can't be bothered. You see, I'd like to thank the BBC for giving Griffin an opportunity for the whole country to hear what he has to say, no amount of anti-BNP campaigning, protesting or assassination would have the effect of actually hearing what Griffin has to say, a little man of poor intellect, little skill in terms of public speaking, a complete in ability to form a coherent argument, ugly, stupid, this man is no Hitler. I doubt he'd be able to organise a proverbial piss up in a proverbial brewery let alone an invasion of Poland.
Nope, I'm not worried, his type were sorted out with a rope around their neck in Nuremberg the last time around.
Very interesting reading this debate with some good points made from different standpoints - and still civil - well done all.
A couple of points:
Repatriation (apart from the possible exception of 'newly arrived' 1st generation immigrants) is simply, a non-starter. Even Griffin (dense, as he obviously is) must realise this in his heart of hearts. How would you work out who stayed and who didn't? Simple answer - you couldn't. We are where we are and we have to learn to live together because no-one is going to get 'sent back' to anywhere. It ain't happening, because when push comes to shove the British public would simply not let it happen. I truly believe that.
I think that the problem (and the rise of the BNP) is down to a sense of grievance on behalf of the native population (and yes, I do mean indigenous and you know exactly what I mean). They have seen their culture denigrated as worthless and shameful and, by comparison, other's cultures lauded as wonderful and worth celebrating. That is just not sensible if you want to achieve racial harmony.
One case, mentioned by Griffin last night was actually true and regards the stopping of funded walk leaders in the Lakes because the participants were 'too white'. Other examples include the criticism of 'the proms' in the same vein. No-one would criticise the Notting Hill carnival as 'too black' for example. Are indigenous people not allowed to have anything that relates to their culture any more, whereas it's OK for others of a different ethnicity? Unfortunately, decisions have been made by some of those in power that it is acceptable to act prejudicially in the name of racial harmony. Are they really so stupid as not to realise that all this does is increase racial disharmony? A sense of grievance is created which leads to resentment and sometimes mutates into blaming those they believe are having it all their own way. This sense of grievance is misplaced as it is not those people who are making these stupid decisions.
A very salient point made here is that, when you talk to those of minorities who are apparently 'offended' by indigenous persons celebrating their own culture, you find that they are not at all. Often they are mystified and amused in equal measure that it has been arbritarily decreed that this is how 'they' feel. The reason for it is usually that someone (usually an indigenous Guardian reading type with the intelligence and insight of a woodlouse) has become offended on their behalf. If they would just stop this kind of ridiculous thing happening and we learned as a society to treat all of our cultures on an equal basis, then the BNP and Griffin will disappear quicker than you can say 'positive discrimination'.
PS: When people say 'there is no such thing as indigenous' what they really mean is 'I am allowed an ethnic identity, but you are not'. This also irritates people and increases the sense of injustice. I heard this said by non-indigenous people on QT last night and I found it personally insulting. Would you honestly say that to a member of any other ethnic group? I don't think so. You can have your identity, but I also want mine if that's alright with you. No-one need resent the other. It really is that simple.
This youtube clip is the one that was mentioned on the program last night, where Nick Griffin spoke on the same platform as a former leader of the KKK. It is clear that their attempts to appear more moderate are just a front to get more votes, but their real aim of a totally white Britain hasn't really changed at all.
GH all main parties are broad church's. They are an amalgam of views, values and ideals. I think you firstly have to rule out voting for any party whose core values are fundamentally different to your own.
I could never vote for the BNP. Their values are just fundamentally different to mine. My fear would be that they ever come to power because most liberal minded people such as myself, anybody whose ethnicity they didn't like, anybody whose sexual orientation they didn't like would all be in peril.
As for other parties, well most floating voters vote for parties that most closely meet their values and more importantly their aspirations. I think for traditional Labour voters, that is a dilemma but not one I share.
Bigstemmara best post of the day. Why don't we merge Charlton Life with the most popular Millwall message board and increase diversity regardless of impact on current Charlton Life culture? Perhaps there is a Charlton Life culture we would prefer to preserve. Not saying the Charlton Life culture is fixed or is not an amalgum of diverse posters and will never change but it's a reflection of where we are now. Of course you might deny such culture exists - fair enough - but you cannot deny others' the right to recognise whatever culture they genuinely perceive.
Too many posts to read now, so I am sorry and I have probably missed some good points. I will go over it all later as it is a good debate.
On the subject of the Indigenous Brits, my view is that they are any person who has British ancestry going back to the late middle ages, and whilst Britain has had successive waves of immigrants since then they have all been from the same basic ethnic origin i.e. northern European. The Saxons DID settle here in large numbers, as did the Angles and Jutes from northern Germany and Denmark. Most place names in southern and eastern England are of Saxon origin. Very few Romans stayed in Britain when Rome crashed, those that remained were mostly Britons that had adopted the Roman way of life.
Henry, some local councils do not allow folk to celebrate Christmas and some corporations, they are asked not to put up decorations and cards in case it offends ethnic minorities. They do not put traditional Christmas imagery up around the streets for the same reason but will then spend thousands on displys for Dilawi [sic]. When the World Cup was on, Bradford (I think) Council banned taxis from flying St Georges flags in case it caused offence, the list goes on and on and you know it, insane political correctness that benefits nobody and causes resentment.
As a few posts on here say, the problems in modern Britain are more about the drastic changes that have happened over the last 40 years. the traditional way of life has been changed and very little is done to get it back, in fact if you complain you are called racist and how wrong is that ? The mass immigration happening now is wrong and bad, too many cultures cannot mix. We need a certain amount of immigration but those that come here should respect our way of life and our religious values and not try to change Britain into a version of their own homeland. If anybody is offended by a St Georges flag or a Union Jack then my advice would be don't go to Britain where they are the national flags.
There is a real problem with extremist Muslims and I apologise to the genuine, peaceful Muslims but there is so much evidence of plans to turn the UK into a Muslim state. They protest in ways we would never be allowed to get away with, they cause tension and they make no secret of their hatred of Christains and what should happen to us.
Poles come here, work hard, pay taxes, don't cause any problems on the whole, no problem. Hindu and Sikh Indians are the same, Chinese folk work hard, they might not integrate all that much but we can all live together. West Indians are part of our community now and have fitted in best of all, they have what I would call "become British", there has been some flashpoints with the youth but I think that is all mainly in the past. When you see young West Indians standing side by side with white youth in the EDL you know.
A vote for the BNP, as I have done, is a protest vote to tell the mainstream parties to wake up and sort this immigration mess out because it is only going to get worse. Jack Straw is a complete twat, I have no faith in Labout at all, the Tories will have to change drastically and David Cameron is a not the man for that. Lib/Dem...irrelevant! UKIP, I don't know. Who else?
Something has got to happen before this country explodes because a lot of anger is simmering just below the surface!
We have been here for a long time, we built this country, why should we have to change to suit immigrants?
Comments
Griffin uses Indigenous when what he wants to say is white but they are not the same thing at all (not that is really matters to me but it obviously does to him.)
We are talking about people who are proud to be British or English, would fight for the country (hopefully in a war not related to oil or US interference). People that don't despise the people that represent the majority of the population, and certainly people that wont plan to attack people on their way to work in the morning with suicide bombs.
We have and still are a fairly tollerent population but surely allowing radical islamists to freely operate and preach in this country words that would be considered treason amongst Christians is just plain stupid
UKIP?
EXACTLY WHERE I Am at who the fudge do i vote for when there is no one
this country needs to change and the stuffy bstds at the top need to look to joe public and offer them a solution or racist scumbags and useless looney paties are going to get votes, is it now the time for more local representation
I mostly agree with all of that.
It's just that I think that most Black, Asian and so called "non-indigenous" people would too.
showed all parties up to be weak the only people with any credit was the organisors of the show for having the balls to put nick griffin on there. shame they made the show so cowardly
those absolute idiots outside the bbc playing into the hands of the bnp and shouting shame on you bbc are the same folk that bang on about civil rights in china yet want to silence a view point n england because it differs from theirs
hypocricy is rife in this country from politics, the great unwashed and the beeb
Then I have no problem with them.
In fact I have no problem with people applying for asylum through the correct process. I do however believe that people that are in this country illegally should not be roaming the streets. They should be held in a remote location, as in Australia until their claims have been checked then either deported or granted temporary access. The terms of this access would also have restrictions. Having to report to some sort of parol officer and completing some kind of voluntary work to cover their cost of living would be good.
Just drop it all tomorrow and rmember we are all Charlton
Believe me, I haven't got "Thick Skin" (I've got the scars to prove it !! ;-)).
I was mugged awhile back: walking home from the pub and knocked unconcious from behind. Didn't see the Attackers. Police "assumed" they were Black because it was near the Hazel Grove estate.........
Had trouble with a black woman whos car rolled back slightly and hit me on the leg whilst crossing the road because she was on the phone.........Ofcourse, I've never seen any White people on the phone in their cars have I ?
I take Every person I meet as an individual, and look beyond their skin colour.
You never had aggro with White people SoundAs ?
Edit: And Yes, I wear a Poppy and St.George Cross badges & celebrate St.Georges Day. Never had a problem with anyone about that.
Edit:Edit: ..........The Charlton Family.......... ;-)
But as you say - Come On You Reds!
Our language is very welcoming of 'foreign' words, 'pajamas' being Indian for example. language and culture moves and changes with the times. Is it possible to stick a pin into a moment and say...'Thats British Culture' (I believe Nick Griffin would like to pin it down to 1948)?
There are benefits to cross cultural interchange that we enjoy....Arabic doctors influenced the improved treatment of the sick when learned about during the times of the Crusades for example. If the BNP are standing up for Britishness, and British culture do they really know what they mean by that? They often talk of values such as tolerance, free speech, fair play, Democracy, Christianity....but there terms are elusive too.....the easy route to defining what is meant by those things is often to declare that it boils down to whiteness...hence attacks on non-white people. Extremists in other places are often very much the same, with targets defined by the existence of 'other' groups rather than by individual behaviour.
I am depressed by this thread because I fear for a polarised society, where separate groups are exploited by extremists.
And why should you have a problem.
I think it is part of our tradition that we offer asylum and a good thing.
Doesn't mean I don't think it couldn't be handled better and more quickly as it would be better for everyone. It would cost us less, real asylum seekers would get themselves sorted sooner and any bogus applicants could be removed.
See you in the Britton Farmhouse everyone.
I hear what you are saying Seth, but this thread has actually encouraged me in that it has lasted for a while and not degenerated into the usual mess that political threads have fallen into in the past.
Anyway, I was going. Just let's have none of this talk tomorrow as it may spoil the day.
Come on you Reds
Fortunately this didn't happen.
Now, I will hold my hands up and state that politically I am a liberal, a social democrat, that's where I stand. Also, I find Mr Griffin a repugnant human being though I think the BBC did the right thing in giving him an opportunity to respond and air his views. I fully expected to be enraged to the point of distraction, swearing at the TV and grinding my teeth but as the programme went on, I found I was less enraged and actually quite relieved. Nick Griffin is clearly a complete idiot.
As the programme progressed and Griffin answered questions put to him he seemed utterly at a loss, isolated, a fish out of water. I kind of felt sorry for him, he really does not have a clue. Far from being annoyed with his views I found myself thinking.."is that it? Is that really the best argument you can come up with?" The one thing that sticks in my mind is that he seems to base his entire political philosophy on the notion that 17000 years ago, there was once an indigenous pure British race, and are therefore entitled to inherit the idea of nation that didn't exist 17000 years ago. Griffin is the kid at the back of the class that just doesn't get it so throws rubbers around when the teacher isn't looking.
I could go on and on about the things wrong with Griffins views, but I really can't be bothered. You see, I'd like to thank the BBC for giving Griffin an opportunity for the whole country to hear what he has to say, no amount of anti-BNP campaigning, protesting or assassination would have the effect of actually hearing what Griffin has to say, a little man of poor intellect, little skill in terms of public speaking, a complete in ability to form a coherent argument, ugly, stupid, this man is no Hitler. I doubt he'd be able to organise a proverbial piss up in a proverbial brewery let alone an invasion of Poland.
Nope, I'm not worried, his type were sorted out with a rope around their neck in Nuremberg the last time around.
A couple of points:
Repatriation (apart from the possible exception of 'newly arrived' 1st generation immigrants) is simply, a non-starter. Even Griffin (dense, as he obviously is) must realise this in his heart of hearts. How would you work out who stayed and who didn't? Simple answer - you couldn't. We are where we are and we have to learn to live together because no-one is going to get 'sent back' to anywhere. It ain't happening, because when push comes to shove the British public would simply not let it happen. I truly believe that.
I think that the problem (and the rise of the BNP) is down to a sense of grievance on behalf of the native population (and yes, I do mean indigenous and you know exactly what I mean). They have seen their culture denigrated as worthless and shameful and, by comparison, other's cultures lauded as wonderful and worth celebrating. That is just not sensible if you want to achieve racial harmony.
One case, mentioned by Griffin last night was actually true and regards the stopping of funded walk leaders in the Lakes because the participants were 'too white'. Other examples include the criticism of 'the proms' in the same vein. No-one would criticise the Notting Hill carnival as 'too black' for example. Are indigenous people not allowed to have anything that relates to their culture any more, whereas it's OK for others of a different ethnicity? Unfortunately, decisions have been made by some of those in power that it is acceptable to act prejudicially in the name of racial harmony. Are they really so stupid as not to realise that all this does is increase racial disharmony? A sense of grievance is created which leads to resentment and sometimes mutates into blaming those they believe are having it all their own way. This sense of grievance is misplaced as it is not those people who are making these stupid decisions.
A very salient point made here is that, when you talk to those of minorities who are apparently 'offended' by indigenous persons celebrating their own culture, you find that they are not at all. Often they are mystified and amused in equal measure that it has been arbritarily decreed that this is how 'they' feel. The reason for it is usually that someone (usually an indigenous Guardian reading type with the intelligence and insight of a woodlouse) has become offended on their behalf. If they would just stop this kind of ridiculous thing happening and we learned as a society to treat all of our cultures on an equal basis, then the BNP and Griffin will disappear quicker than you can say 'positive discrimination'.
PS: When people say 'there is no such thing as indigenous' what they really mean is 'I am allowed an ethnic identity, but you are not'. This also irritates people and increases the sense of injustice. I heard this said by non-indigenous people on QT last night and I found it personally insulting. Would you honestly say that to a member of any other ethnic group? I don't think so. You can have your identity, but I also want mine if that's alright with you. No-one need resent the other. It really is that simple.
I could never vote for the BNP. Their values are just fundamentally different to mine. My fear would be that they ever come to power because most liberal minded people such as myself, anybody whose ethnicity they didn't like, anybody whose sexual orientation they didn't like would all be in peril.
As for other parties, well most floating voters vote for parties that most closely meet their values and more importantly their aspirations. I think for traditional Labour voters, that is a dilemma but not one I share.
Why don't we merge Charlton Life with the most popular Millwall message board and increase diversity regardless of impact on current Charlton Life culture? Perhaps there is a Charlton Life culture we would prefer to preserve. Not saying the Charlton Life culture is fixed or is not an amalgum of diverse posters and will never change but it's a reflection of where we are now. Of course you might deny such culture exists - fair enough - but you cannot deny others' the right to recognise whatever culture they genuinely perceive.
On the subject of the Indigenous Brits, my view is that they are any person who has British ancestry going back to the late middle ages, and whilst Britain has had successive waves of immigrants since then they have all been from the same basic ethnic origin i.e. northern European. The Saxons DID settle here in large numbers, as did the Angles and Jutes from northern Germany and Denmark. Most place names in southern and eastern England are of Saxon origin. Very few Romans stayed in Britain when Rome crashed, those that remained were mostly Britons that had adopted the Roman way of life.
Henry, some local councils do not allow folk to celebrate Christmas and some corporations, they are asked not to put up decorations and cards in case it offends ethnic minorities. They do not put traditional Christmas imagery up around the streets for the same reason but will then spend thousands on displys for Dilawi [sic]. When the World Cup was on, Bradford (I think) Council banned taxis from flying St Georges flags in case it caused offence, the list goes on and on and you know it, insane political correctness that benefits nobody and causes resentment.
As a few posts on here say, the problems in modern Britain are more about the drastic changes that have happened over the last 40 years. the traditional way of life has been changed and very little is done to get it back, in fact if you complain you are called racist and how wrong is that ? The mass immigration happening now is wrong and bad, too many cultures cannot mix. We need a certain amount of immigration but those that come here should respect our way of life and our religious values and not try to change Britain into a version of their own homeland. If anybody is offended by a St Georges flag or a Union Jack then my advice would be don't go to Britain where they are the national flags.
There is a real problem with extremist Muslims and I apologise to the genuine, peaceful Muslims but there is so much evidence of plans to turn the UK into a Muslim state. They protest in ways we would never be allowed to get away with, they cause tension and they make no secret of their hatred of Christains and what should happen to us.
Poles come here, work hard, pay taxes, don't cause any problems on the whole, no problem. Hindu and Sikh Indians are the same, Chinese folk work hard, they might not integrate all that much but we can all live together. West Indians are part of our community now and have fitted in best of all, they have what I would call "become British", there has been some flashpoints with the youth but I think that is all mainly in the past. When you see young West Indians standing side by side with white youth in the EDL you know.
A vote for the BNP, as I have done, is a protest vote to tell the mainstream parties to wake up and sort this immigration mess out because it is only going to get worse. Jack Straw is a complete twat, I have no faith in Labout at all, the Tories will have to change drastically and David Cameron is a not the man for that. Lib/Dem...irrelevant! UKIP, I don't know. Who else?
Something has got to happen before this country explodes because a lot of anger is simmering just below the surface!
We have been here for a long time, we built this country, why should we have to change to suit immigrants?