[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Excuse me, there are a lot of you making judgements on a 3 second video clip.
You're all saying he is a mouthy chav who was causing trouble, acting aggressively and deserves it.
What have you lot seen that I haven't? The clip that Sky Sports show just shows the ob pushing him over, him standing back up & arguing back (who wouldn't) and then getting a smack in the face.
That short clip shows he was at the fornt of a trouble situation. If he hadn't wanted to be there he would have moved when it started. His choice to be in that situation so he's not a nice innocent victim, therefore no sympathy for him.
It's easy to get caught up in things in the heat of the moment though and just as easy to cast moral judgement sitting behind a computer screen and watching a youtube clip. We weren't exactly treated like royalty by the police at the New Den back in march when we were penned in and if the police had treated my younger brothers or missus the way they were hands on with some of our younger (maybe not 100% innocent) fans then I would have found it very hard not to react and would have probably got battered a night in the cells and a court hearing for my troubles.
Just hope none of those defending the OB in this situation were criticising them over the May Day stuff as some of the protestors then were a damn site worse (i saw it first hand) than a skinny teenager waving his arms about football factory style....suppose though being middle class with left wing views, pierced noses and dreadlocks makes it less acceptable when the police get handy.
[quote][cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: DRAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Excuse me, there are a lot of you making judgements on a 3 second video clip.
You're all saying he is a mouthy chav who was causing trouble, acting aggressively and deserves it.
What have you lot seen that I haven't? The clip that Sky Sports show just shows the ob pushing him over, him standing back up & arguing back (who wouldn't) and then getting a smack in the face.[/quote]
[b]That short clip shows he was at the fornt of a trouble situation. If he hadn't wanted to be there he would have moved when it started. His choice to be in that situation so he's not a nice innocent victim, therefore no sympathy for him[/b].[/quote]
It's easy to get caught up in things in the heat of the moment though and just as easy to cast moral judgement sitting behind a computer screen and watching a youtube clip. We weren't exactly treated like royalty by the police at the New Den back in march when we were penned in and if the police had treated my younger brothers or missus the way they were hands on with some of our younger (maybe not 100% innocent) fans then I would have found it very hard not to react and would have probably got battered a night in the cells and a court hearing for my troubles.
Just hope none of those defending the OB in this situation were criticising them over the May Day stuff as some of the protestors then were a damn site worse (i saw it first hand) than a skinny teenager waving his arms about football factory style....suppose though being middle class with left wing views, pierced noses and dreadlocks makes it less acceptable when the police get handy.[/quote]
Yep been there many times myself, football and protest situations, including the Den situation this year. Things rarely occur so quickly you don't know that somethings gonna happen and can't move away if you want to. Infact i would suggest if you're having things thrown at you and there's a line of police there facing you it's kind of obvious if you're not interested in being part of it you need to move away not get closer. (And i fully support the May day protesters being blocked in, they've proved they can't be trusted to protest decently)
Rodney - great post, clearly from someone who has experience of the way ob are.
I think many people don't truly understand how the ob act, only the May Day stuff last year made the public see what they are like, whilst many football fans are sitting there watching it saying they've been treated worse than that for years.
The way I see it is this, if he was causing no trouble and got a whack for nothing then it's out of order. If he was playing up then he deserves a smack, in fact I think more kids who are getting up to no good should get a smack from a copper in any situation, football or otherwise. They should bring back corporal punishment aswell!
In this situation, we don't know what went on, chances are he was just being a little shit, but he could easily just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time so maybe we should give the lad the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand he is millwall....
I'm a bit dissapointed that some our fellow fair minded supporters are making themselves judge and jury with their only evidence being a 10 second clip. The truth is, when it kicks off at Leeds road, it doent seem to matter who started it or who's getting a battering...the OB just go for the away supporters...they break arms and legs for the terrible crime of swearing. Evidence? Lived in Huddersfield, went to quite a few matches, came back from there in 1968 with 6 short on the coach...two arrested, four in hospital. I despise the unruly element at Millwall but Sparrows was there...we werent.
[cite]Posted By: Ollywozere[/cite]The way I see it is this, if he was causing no trouble and got a whack for nothing then it's out of order. If he was playing up then he deserves a smack, in fact I think more kids who are getting up to no good should get a smack from a copper in any situation, football or otherwise. They should bring back corporal punishment aswell!
In this situation, we don't know what went on, chances are he was just being a little shit, but he could easily just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time so maybe we should give the lad the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand he is millwall....
You think it's down to coppers to discipline children? They are there to protect and serve. Not judge & punish.
If you want coppers to take the role of parents and discipline your children then go ahead. But I think I'll leave the punishing of my kids in my hands and not at the fist of a copper.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]They are there to protect and serve. Not judge & punish.
100% spot on.
I could rant on about this for weeks, the behaviour of that copper and so many of his like minded robocop mates is nothing short of disgusting. It's also illegal.
I would bring up my kids in such a way that it would'nt come down to that. If I've disciplined them properly at home they wouldn't be out causing trouble in the first place. If I haven't done my job properly and they were out acting like little scrotes then maybe they deserve to get a lesson taught to them.
I haven't got kids, and I'm only 21 myself. I've never been in trouble with the Police and I doubt I ever will be. I say that's job done by my parents. If I was in a situation like that lad was I would've just walked away and not got involved. As soon as the Police were involved I would've backed off otherwise I would fully expect a smack or a truncheon to the head and I would have no complaints about it either. That's how I've been brought up.
cant see anything wrong with it myself, straight out of the gene hunt book of policing...if you go to these places you have to accept that you're stepping back in time...the millwall fans should have got their own back and let the tyres down on his audi quattro...
Im 100% on Sparrow Lions side here. My wife (Yes my wife supports that lot) was up there yesterday. Hudders mobbed up and started lobbing everything at the millwall end. When a few millwall retaliated (not the lad in question I may add) the ob got batton happy. Millwall were then let out into waiting mobs of Hudders.
The ob are scum of the earth and well renowned as the best mob in England. Complete thugs in uniform who take advantage on the position they are in and 90% of them love it.
Have none of you lot ever encountered this type of policing away with us? Saints away the other week they were taking liberties in the escort after the game with young charlton lads again (not walking fast enough, shove in the back, batton round the legs). Don't act like that so much with groups of older lads - bullies!
I hope some of you defending the copper never end up in situation where something happens to you and you suffer how many of us have before. If you ever do you can do one if you come looking for sympathy on here.
I don't like defending "the wifes team" but even their low-life rank higher than a lot of football ob imo.
And you have the nerve to mouth off when you don't even know what happened. Same type who criticise clips of Eng fans playing up on Sky Sports News, when sky have funnily enough not shown the prior footage of either the ob or locals attacking.
Some of you slag the tabloids, but then take as gospel eveything you hear and watch on news channels. (shakes head).
Millwall are scum, but they are still football fans like us and we've all seen some of the Robocop policing on our awaydays too. People couldn't wait to criticise the OB at The Den, and they didn't, at least to my knowledge, hit one of our lot as blatantly as that. Some OB are fine but like anything you get a few twats on a power trip. The kid was being mouthy but not violent, and seeing that there's hundreds of guys like that at every ground in the country (including when we play), I can't believe some of you are saying a slap was fine. The copper is in a position of authority and should rise above it.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Excuse me, there are a lot of you making judgements on a 3 second video clip.
You're all saying he is a mouthy chav who was causing trouble, acting aggressively and deserves it.
What have you lot seen that I haven't? The clip that Sky Sports show just shows the ob pushing him over, him standing back up & arguing back (who wouldn't) and then getting a smack in the face.
This clip is a bit longer than 3 seconds and shows him clearly at the front of a group being pushed back by the police. Why were they being pushed back? Were they innocently clapping their team off at the end of the game or were they giving it to Huddersfield fans. As DR said above, you know when to leave a situation and if i was at the front of a group being pushed back by coppers with batons i wouldn't be squaring up to him on the steps like he does just before he was whacked. He was pushed away by the copper but turns back towards him on the step. My take on it is he was acting all hard giving it to Huddersfield fans, and didn't for a second think the copper would do anything. hope it serves him right. I bet he's one of the mouthy chavs in your west lower tier who spent more time at the Den giving it us than he did watching the game.
In my original post i did say the copper was wrong to whack him but lets not pretend this kid was innocent. If he's old enough to follow Millwall away and find himself at the front of a group being pushed back by police then he's old enough to know what might happen to him if he gets mouthy back.
Spot on Chris! Its funny how its always the same old teams that seem to get mentioned in these situations.... the scum being one of them!While the police are scum of the earth, alot of people will agree on that. Alot of people will also agree that a LARGE CONTINGENT of Millwall fans are equal to that! And no that doesnt include Sparrows and other like minded proper football fans...but thats the reputation they carry and the lads retaliating to the Hudders fans dont help that. You may ask well if we were in the same position wouldnt you do the same....well the answer is no because the Hudders fans would see no reason to mob up against us in the first place!!!
[cite]Posted By: cafc_se7[/cite]Spot on Chris!
You may ask well if we were in the same position wouldnt you do the same....well the answer is no because the Hudders fans would see no reason to mob up against us in the first place!!!
The police do seem to been out of order with their aggression but the worst of it is none of them had their numbers on display. This suggests firstly they intended to be violent and secondly that they could not be identified thus not accountable for their action. Can they collectively be charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice or some such charge, especially the senior officers who allowed the polce to be anonymous?
The kid needs to learn that if you don't like having your arse tickled it's best not to play with feathers. And the copper falls short of the standards expected of law enforcement in a civilized society. We have policing by consent and behaviour like this is the best way of losing that consent.
Not really bothered about who started it. It just amazes me how unlucky Millwall are. Everywhere they go they get started on. And all they ever do is throw a few punches back, lob a few bottles, ....... trash a few towns...... and then they ALWAYS get the blame.
[cite]Posted By: better red than dead[/cite]The police do seem to been out of order with their aggression but the worst of it is none of them had their numbers on display. This suggests firstly they intended to be violent and secondly that they could not be identified thus not accountable for their action.
Standard procedure, ask one of them to tell your their number, like they're supposed to have on show and your in for a real host of trouble.
[cite]Posted By: better red than dead[/cite]The police do seem to been out of order with their aggression but the worst of it is none of them had their numbers on display. This suggests firstly they intended to be violent and secondly that they could not be identified thus not accountable for their action.
Standard procedure, ask one of them to tell your their number, like they're supposed to have on show and your in for a real host of trouble.
See you next tuesdays, the lot of em.
You ask for their number and they usually threaten to arrest you! They love getting baton happy and whilst many on here won't believe me, I've seen many flashpoints occur that have been down to the police.
I've been other away games where the plod have a more low key, relaxed and friendly policing approach and fans normally respond to that with respect and just enjoy their day.
[cite]Posted By: better red than dead[/cite]The police do seem to been out of order with their aggression but the worst of it is none of them had their numbers on display. This suggests firstly they intended to be violent and secondly that they could not be identified thus not accountable for their action.
Standard procedure, ask one of them to tell your their number, like they're supposed to have on show and your in for a real host of trouble.
See you next tuesdays, the lot of em.
You ask for their number and they usually threaten to arrest you! They love getting baton happy and whilst many on here won't believe me, I've seen many flashpoints occur that have been down to the police.
I've been other away games where the plod have a more low key, relaxed and friendly policing approach and fans normally respond to that with respect and just enjoy their day.
I remember Southampton away in the cup back in 2002(?). Policing was as close to perfect as I can remember for an away game. Low presence. Helmets off when they came into the bars. Had a laugh with the Millwall fans. NOT herded like cattle around the town and made to turn up 10 minutes late. As a result, I don't remember their being an arrest all day, or any flare ups at all. OB got it spot on that day.
That's why i'm suprised to hear that Charlton encountered so much grief when they went down their this season.
In my experience, southern OB seem to be pretty much on the ball and a 'relatively' reasonable. It's the northern OB that are f'king scum!
Comments
It's easy to get caught up in things in the heat of the moment though and just as easy to cast moral judgement sitting behind a computer screen and watching a youtube clip. We weren't exactly treated like royalty by the police at the New Den back in march when we were penned in and if the police had treated my younger brothers or missus the way they were hands on with some of our younger (maybe not 100% innocent) fans then I would have found it very hard not to react and would have probably got battered a night in the cells and a court hearing for my troubles.
Just hope none of those defending the OB in this situation were criticising them over the May Day stuff as some of the protestors then were a damn site worse (i saw it first hand) than a skinny teenager waving his arms about football factory style....suppose though being middle class with left wing views, pierced noses and dreadlocks makes it less acceptable when the police get handy.
You're all saying he is a mouthy chav who was causing trouble, acting aggressively and deserves it.
What have you lot seen that I haven't? The clip that Sky Sports show just shows the ob pushing him over, him standing back up & arguing back (who wouldn't) and then getting a smack in the face.[/quote]
[b]That short clip shows he was at the fornt of a trouble situation. If he hadn't wanted to be there he would have moved when it started. His choice to be in that situation so he's not a nice innocent victim, therefore no sympathy for him[/b].[/quote]
It's easy to get caught up in things in the heat of the moment though and just as easy to cast moral judgement sitting behind a computer screen and watching a youtube clip. We weren't exactly treated like royalty by the police at the New Den back in march when we were penned in and if the police had treated my younger brothers or missus the way they were hands on with some of our younger (maybe not 100% innocent) fans then I would have found it very hard not to react and would have probably got battered a night in the cells and a court hearing for my troubles.
Just hope none of those defending the OB in this situation were criticising them over the May Day stuff as some of the protestors then were a damn site worse (i saw it first hand) than a skinny teenager waving his arms about football factory style....suppose though being middle class with left wing views, pierced noses and dreadlocks makes it less acceptable when the police get handy.[/quote]
Yep been there many times myself, football and protest situations, including the Den situation this year. Things rarely occur so quickly you don't know that somethings gonna happen and can't move away if you want to. Infact i would suggest if you're having things thrown at you and there's a line of police there facing you it's kind of obvious if you're not interested in being part of it you need to move away not get closer.
(And i fully support the May day protesters being blocked in, they've proved they can't be trusted to protest decently)
I think many people don't truly understand how the ob act, only the May Day stuff last year made the public see what they are like, whilst many football fans are sitting there watching it saying they've been treated worse than that for years.
In this situation, we don't know what went on, chances are he was just being a little shit, but he could easily just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time so maybe we should give the lad the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand he is millwall....
You think it's down to coppers to discipline children? They are there to protect and serve. Not judge & punish.
If you want coppers to take the role of parents and discipline your children then go ahead. But I think I'll leave the punishing of my kids in my hands and not at the fist of a copper.
100% spot on.
I could rant on about this for weeks, the behaviour of that copper and so many of his like minded robocop mates is nothing short of disgusting. It's also illegal.
I haven't got kids, and I'm only 21 myself. I've never been in trouble with the Police and I doubt I ever will be. I say that's job done by my parents. If I was in a situation like that lad was I would've just walked away and not got involved. As soon as the Police were involved I would've backed off otherwise I would fully expect a smack or a truncheon to the head and I would have no complaints about it either. That's how I've been brought up.
Millwall were then let out into waiting mobs of Hudders.
The ob are scum of the earth and well renowned as the best mob in England. Complete thugs in uniform who take advantage on the position they are in and 90% of them love it.
Have none of you lot ever encountered this type of policing away with us? Saints away the other week they were taking liberties in the escort after the game with young charlton lads again (not walking fast enough, shove in the back, batton round the legs). Don't act like that so much with groups of older lads - bullies!
I hope some of you defending the copper never end up in situation where something happens to you and you suffer how many of us have before. If you ever do you can do one if you come looking for sympathy on here.
I don't like defending "the wifes team" but even their low-life rank higher than a lot of football ob imo.
And you have the nerve to mouth off when you don't even know what happened. Same type who criticise clips of Eng fans playing up on Sky Sports News, when sky have funnily enough not shown the prior footage of either the ob or locals attacking.
Some of you slag the tabloids, but then take as gospel eveything you hear and watch on news channels. (shakes head).
This clip is a bit longer than 3 seconds and shows him clearly at the front of a group being pushed back by the police. Why were they being pushed back? Were they innocently clapping their team off at the end of the game or were they giving it to Huddersfield fans. As DR said above, you know when to leave a situation and if i was at the front of a group being pushed back by coppers with batons i wouldn't be squaring up to him on the steps like he does just before he was whacked. He was pushed away by the copper but turns back towards him on the step. My take on it is he was acting all hard giving it to Huddersfield fans, and didn't for a second think the copper would do anything. hope it serves him right. I bet he's one of the mouthy chavs in your west lower tier who spent more time at the Den giving it us than he did watching the game.
In my original post i did say the copper was wrong to whack him but lets not pretend this kid was innocent. If he's old enough to follow Millwall away and find himself at the front of a group being pushed back by police then he's old enough to know what might happen to him if he gets mouthy back.
Longer clip
Its funny how its always the same old teams that seem to get mentioned in these situations.... the scum being one of them!While the police are scum of the earth, alot of people will agree on that. Alot of people will also agree that a LARGE CONTINGENT of Millwall fans are equal to that! And no that doesnt include Sparrows and other like minded proper football fans...but thats the reputation they carry and the lads retaliating to the Hudders fans dont help that. You may ask well if we were in the same position wouldnt you do the same....well the answer is no because the Hudders fans would see no reason to mob up against us in the first place!!!
Really? I think you'll find they would
it's a proper white trainers day out !
Greenwich for the home game
The kid needs to learn that if you don't like having your arse tickled it's best not to play with feathers. And the copper falls short of the standards expected of law enforcement in a civilized society. We have policing by consent and behaviour like this is the best way of losing that consent.
Out of order if you ask me.
Standard procedure, ask one of them to tell your their number, like they're supposed to have on show and your in for a real host of trouble.
See you next tuesdays, the lot of em.
Indeed. Think SE7 needs to know a bit more being making statements about Hudds not turning out for Charlton.
You ask for their number and they usually threaten to arrest you! They love getting baton happy and whilst many on here won't believe me, I've seen many flashpoints occur that have been down to the police.
I've been other away games where the plod have a more low key, relaxed and friendly policing approach and fans normally respond to that with respect and just enjoy their day.
I remember Southampton away in the cup back in 2002(?). Policing was as close to perfect as I can remember for an away game. Low presence. Helmets off when they came into the bars. Had a laugh with the Millwall fans. NOT herded like cattle around the town and made to turn up 10 minutes late. As a result, I don't remember their being an arrest all day, or any flare ups at all. OB got it spot on that day.
That's why i'm suprised to hear that Charlton encountered so much grief when they went down their this season.
In my experience, southern OB seem to be pretty much on the ball and a 'relatively' reasonable. It's the northern OB that are f'king scum!