Looks an amazing atmosphere. Free entry and every Pom in Sydney seems to have turned up. Would give anything f to be out there in the sun now with a cold beer singing "god save YOUR Queen"
I have been wandering around for large chunks of work days after staying up far too late and getting up far too early in a state of happy daze
In my living memory we get thumped by Australia, 2005 changed that, 2009 was good but on home soil and against a below par Australia it was not the same.
This has been efffffing briliant, Tremlett is a totally, completely different bowler to the one that represented England before and looks dangerous. Swann was always going to struggle on them tracks, Anderson... What can you say, supreme swing bowling and has the looks of a stayer, our and one of the worlds finest fast bowlers.
To beat Australia in Australia, to humiliate them on their own turf like we have is unheard of.
3-1 is what the history books will read and will knock the convicts back a fair few years in their domminance.
India at home next summer should be a humdinger and while being much closer to call, will give a bloody good measure of how tough we are.
I feel for Ponting to a degree because he is a very good batsmen coming to the end of his career as the captain of a pretty piss-poor side and as much as it pains me to say it he probably deserves better.
And Mitchell Johnson is the worst case of a chucker this side of Murilllliathiaraarn. If he was Sri Lankan, Indian or Pakistani he would be constantly under a spotlight.
Agree with pretty much all of that Carter - even (through gritted teeth) the stuff about Ponting, but can't agree that Johnson is a chucker. There's nothing remotely illegal about his action. It's weird, yes - and he's definitely a shite bowler (thanks for continually picking him Aussie selectors), but nothing 'wrong' with it, from the perspective of the laws.
He doesn't bowl with a straight arm, it sort of kinks at the elbow and whips in. Malinga's action is at least, whilst being very unusual, with a straight arm and behind the line.
A West Indian chap I know who is an opening batsman for a club side said he would refuse to bat against him due to the action he uses
I (and I am in a minority of about four people in 20 asked) am convinced that were he not an Aussie he would be investigated. The ICC crap themselves with dealing with Pakistan though so I don't expect his action to be looked at.
That Murali is without a shadow a chuckster. His wrist does something kinky too, but he is Sri Lankan so I can cast doubt about him ;-)
Johnson's action is legit, you aren't allowed to straighten your arm by more than 15%, but if his arm goes any lower he'd be bowling under-arm. As a swing bowler his round arm delivery reduces the amount of swing that is possible, any movement he gets is from the ball out of the hand and gives the batsman more warning, and because he doesn't get his arm anywhere near the perpendicular if he wants to bowls short, he has to pitch the ball in his half of the wicket. The only time he bowled well was at Perth and that seems to be have been down to his exploiting the prevailing wind that cut in from mid-off in the direction of long leg, that helped his in-swinger. This wasn't the Freemantle doctor effect, that kicks in from the other end, before and after that match he's been ordinary.
Compare with Anderson who bowls with a high arm, although a little bit slower, Anderson gets the ball to move late, after it pitches and gets lift band that is where he does the damage. That and he has a much better control of line. The trick is bowl swing with a loose, but high wrist position behind the seam, which imparts just about the right amount of force on the ball. It's a real skill, and there's more craft to it than meets the eye and it's taken Anderson a long time to master and control. And on days when the ball isn't swinging he's good enough to hold it up just enough and to get reverse swing. The only other current fast bowler who can bowl a controlled spell of swing bowling in Test cricket is Zaheer Khan, I'd include Mohammad Amir, but he's banned.
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]He doesn't bowl with a straight arm, it sort of kinks at the elbow and whips in. Malinga's action is at least, whilst being very unusual, with a straight arm and behind the line.
A West Indian chap I know who is an opening batsman for a club side said he would refuse to bat against him due to the action he uses
I (and I am in a minority of about four people in 20 asked) am convinced that were he not an Aussie he would be investigated. The ICC crap themselves with dealing with Pakistan though so I don't expect his action to be looked at.
That Murali is without a shadow a chuckster. His wrist does something kinky too, but he is Sri Lankan so I can cast doubt about him ;-)
He does flex his elbow a little, admittedly, but its well within the 15% limit. Admittedly, that was a bullshit limit imposed by the ICC to get round the issue of Murali being a dirty chucker, but rules is rules! I don't think the question of him being an Australian and thus exempt from suspicion is valid. They made Brett Lee remodel his action - which had far, far less elbow flexion than Murali's
That Murali is without a shadow a chuckster. His wrist does something kinky too, but he is Sri Lankan so I can cast doubt about him ;-)
Mostly that was an optical illusion, but you don't take 800 odd Test wickets as a spinner as a chucker, if you do you lose control of things like flight and drift, and bowling an arm ball or slider is that much more difficult. Murali was unusually jointed in that he has far more flexibility in his wrist than most humans. It is said that he can flip his hamd back and touch the front of his wrist with the fingers on that hand. That said I always had my doubts about whether the doosra and the faster version of the doosra at that was legit.
And in Tests they found that Brett Lee straightened his arm much furtherthan Murali.
I'm not convinced BFR, you are quite right in all you say but his action is just...... Not right!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]He doesn't bowl with a straight arm, it sort of kinks at the elbow and whips in. Malinga's action is at least, whilst being very unusual, with a straight arm and behind the line.
A West Indian chap I know who is an opening batsman for a club side said he would refuse to bat against him due to the action he uses
I (and I am in a minority of about four people in 20 asked) am convinced that were he not an Aussie he would be investigated. The ICC crap themselves with dealing with Pakistan though so I don't expect his action to be looked at.
That Murali is without a shadow a chuckster. His wrist does something kinky too, but he is Sri Lankan so I can cast doubt about him ;-)
He does flex his elbow a little, admittedly, but its well within the 15% limit. Admittedly, that was a bullshit limit imposed by the ICC to get round the issue of Murali being a dirty chucker, but rules is rules! I don't think the question of him being an Australian and thus exempt from suspicion is valid. They made Brett Lee remodel his action - which had far, far less elbow flexion than Murali's
That's the thing, it's a silly unenforceable limit but c'est la vie
I am biased and have a been in my bonnet about the ICC being pro-aussie but I am totally made up in my own (and the mind of 4 others) mind that Johnson is a chucker.
HOWEVER all the while he is in the side I always fancy the convicts to be weak, so long may he continue chucking!
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I'm not convinced BFR, you are quite right in all you say but his action is just...... Not right!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England
I would not bat against him, although that's largely because I would hiding in the toilets shitting myself.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I'm not convinced BFR, you are quite right in all you say but his action is just...... Not right!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England[/quote]
I was a bowler not a batsman...but Johnson's round arm delivery means that his action is not consistent, that's why he struggles with line and sprays it about. With a bowler like that I'd fancy my chances of getting a half-volley or two that i could dispatch and that is why he's having a bad Ashes series. England have been disciplined (mostly), they know they can afford to keep the straight stuff out and ignore the wide stuff because they'll get something hittable, be patient and he'll serve it up on a dish. Genuinely I think his action is legit though.
The worst bowlers are those who have a consistent stock ball and give the batsman little room to breathe, and then chuck in a faster ball, or a short fast delivery, yorker etc, that is why McGrath took so many wickets, with Gillespie, Lee, or Warne holding down one end batsmen were forced to try and score off him and he had a great habit of dragging batsman wider and getting edges.
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I'm not convinced BFR, you are quite right in all you say but his action is just...... Not right!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England
I would not bat against him, although that's largely because I would hiding in the toilets shitting myself.
A 150Kmh left-armer on a club pitch? No thanks!
You know what, last time I batted at club level for old Holcs' I got hit four times by a left armer once in the testicles (my fault) once under the left eye, once in the ARMPIT and one on the arse cheek when I completely pussied out of the shot and turned away (again, my fault). On the bright side I survived the over.
I later found out he was a saffa on work experiance with BAE and had chontered in his bosses ear about how he would love a go at learning how to bowl from his boss. He apparently played at a decent level back home and had been on first name terms with a few 2nd string South Africans and a couple of well known current first XI saffas.
When I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking about that balmy summers afternoon in 2005 I often tell myself it's true.
I'm pretty sure it was bullcrap though, told to me to make me feel better about shitting it from the last ball and getting deliberately run out (wasn't) in the next over
Well you can only pick XI. Yes I thought of Anderson Montgomery Everton but I wanted two out and out pacemen, Holding and Walsh and the one clever thinker - Marshall and Garner as the unusual bowler. Andy Roberts was a great bowler and his 2 types of bouncers legendary but for me he just didn't make it.
You know your cricket and although you're a bit younger than me I'd be interested in your two teams of those eras. I did it quickly off the top of my head and maybe there are better choices than Boon or Dean Jones.
Some interesting comments from people that clearly know their cricket. I don't agree that johnson is a chucker but I will definitely pay more attention to his arm angle next time I see him bowl.
I find that opinions about chuckers tend to both polarise and become very difficult to change after they've become embedded. There is, for instance, no way anyone will ever convince me that Murali is owt other than a dirty chucker.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]I find that opinions about chuckers tend to both polarise and become very difficult to change after they've become embedded. There is, for instance, no way anyone will ever convince me that Murali is owt other than a dirty chucker.
No matter how I look at him I see him the same as you.
800 test wickets don't get given away but he chucks, and in the same way I view him I can't see Mitchell Johnson as anything other than a slinger/chucker
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I'm not convinced BFR, you are quite right in all you say but his action is just...... Not right!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England[/quote]
I would not bat against him, although that's largely because I would hiding in the toilets shitting myself.
A 150Kmh left-armer on a club pitch? No thanks![/quote]
I once played with a guy who played Grade cricket in South Australia in the same team as Jason Gillespie. When Gillespie went back to play for this team he would be first change after my mate who though not quite 150km fast was hostile when he wanted to be. Generally he bowled a little within himself - in his first net session with his third/fourth ball he broke the arm of one of our players, so he cut the pace down. On one occasion however a member of the opposition got in an argument with him and called him a cretin, big mistake. I have never been as afriad on a cricket pitch as I was for about four/five overs and I was on the fielding side albeit at second slip. Ball after ball went screaming through at armpit height, most were jagging of the seam and it was odds on a batsman would edge one, at around 20 yards back I genuinely thought I'd stand no chance of reacting let alone catching it and I was the best slip fielder in the club.
Eventually he calmed down and did edge one and our keeper took a catch that defied the laws of gravity, thankfully nothing came my way.
Not that I really give a toss but i've found australia's selection policy weird. How can steve smith get in as a specialist batsman ahead of the likes of david warner, cameron white, shaun marsh and david hussey. When I watch ipl and county cricket, smith is dressed us as a leg spinner that can do the long handle. Watching him in this series, he looks like a tail ender who can bat like swann or mitchell johnson. Very strange selection policy.
[cite]Posted By: stop shouting[/cite]Not that I really give a toss but i've found australia's selection policy weird. How can steve smith get in as a specialist batsman ahead of the likes of david warner, cameron white, shaun marsh and david hussey. When I watch ipl and county cricket, smith is dressed us as a leg spinner that can do the long handle. Watching him in this series, he looks like a tail ender who can bat like swann or mitchell johnson. Very strange selection policy.
With you on Marsh and D Hussey - but not White. I watched the three day game at the MCG before Christmas and White scratched around for a bit not doing much. I'd never been impressed with him before anyway, but for grins I turned and asked the old girl behind us why he never got a look-in for the test side. Next ball - very next ball mind you - he holed out to long on with one of the daftest shots you're likely to see. Don't know enough about Warner to make a comment either way - though he can't be much worse of a batsman than Philip Hughes.
David Warner has played even less FC cricket than Michael Beer, don't confuse being able to thump a cricket ball in T20 with an ability to play Test cricket or even play cricket at all. His FC average is around 24.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: stop shouting[/cite]Not that I really give a toss but i've found australia's selection policy weird. How can steve smith get in as a specialist batsman ahead of the likes of david warner, cameron white, shaun marsh and david hussey. When I watch ipl and county cricket, smith is dressed us as a leg spinner that can do the long handle. Watching him in this series, he looks like a tail ender who can bat like swann or mitchell johnson. Very strange selection policy.[/quote] With you on Marsh and D Hussey - but not White. I watched the three day game at the MCG before Christmas and White scratched around for a bit not doing much. I'd never been impressed with him before anyway, but for grins I turned and asked the old girl behind us why he never got a look-in for the test side. Next ball - very next ball mind you - he holed out to long on with one of the daftest shots you're likely to see. Don't know enough about Warner to make a comment either way - though he can't be much worse of a batsman than Philip Hughes.[/quote] Also the young keeper tim paine is a better option than both smith and hughes. David warner hit's the ball harder than anyone i've ever seen. Last spotted whoring himself in the new zealand 2020 series while hughes was giving away his wicket.
Comments
And Simonsen...... Your analysis fair enough until you equalled Dean Jones with the GREAT CLIVE HUBERT LLOYD!
Greenidge - Hayden.......EQUAL
Richards - Boon............RICHARDS
Richardson - Ponting......PONTING
Kallicharan - Border.......BORDER
Lloyd - Jones...............EQUAL
Dujoin - Gillcrest..........GILCHRIST
Marshall - Warne...........EQUAL
Holding - Gillespie.........HOLDING
Garner - Alderman.........GARNER
Walsh - McGrath............McGRATH
I can't split them....it'd be a draw![/quote]
No mention of Andy Roberts???
In my living memory we get thumped by Australia, 2005 changed that, 2009 was good but on home soil and against a below par Australia it was not the same.
This has been efffffing briliant, Tremlett is a totally, completely different bowler to the one that represented England before and looks dangerous. Swann was always going to struggle on them tracks, Anderson... What can you say, supreme swing bowling and has the looks of a stayer, our and one of the worlds finest fast bowlers.
To beat Australia in Australia, to humiliate them on their own turf like we have is unheard of.
3-1 is what the history books will read and will knock the convicts back a fair few years in their domminance.
India at home next summer should be a humdinger and while being much closer to call, will give a bloody good measure of how tough we are.
I feel for Ponting to a degree because he is a very good batsmen coming to the end of his career as the captain of a pretty piss-poor side and as much as it pains me to say it he probably deserves better.
And Mitchell Johnson is the worst case of a chucker this side of Murilllliathiaraarn. If he was Sri Lankan, Indian or Pakistani he would be constantly under a spotlight.
A West Indian chap I know who is an opening batsman for a club side said he would refuse to bat against him due to the action he uses
I (and I am in a minority of about four people in 20 asked) am convinced that were he not an Aussie he would be investigated. The ICC crap themselves with dealing with Pakistan though so I don't expect his action to be looked at.
That Murali is without a shadow a chuckster. His wrist does something kinky too, but he is Sri Lankan so I can cast doubt about him ;-)
Compare with Anderson who bowls with a high arm, although a little bit slower, Anderson gets the ball to move late, after it pitches and gets lift band that is where he does the damage. That and he has a much better control of line. The trick is bowl swing with a loose, but high wrist position behind the seam, which imparts just about the right amount of force on the ball. It's a real skill, and there's more craft to it than meets the eye and it's taken Anderson a long time to master and control. And on days when the ball isn't swinging he's good enough to hold it up just enough and to get reverse swing. The only other current fast bowler who can bowl a controlled spell of swing bowling in Test cricket is Zaheer Khan, I'd include Mohammad Amir, but he's banned.
Mostly that was an optical illusion, but you don't take 800 odd Test wickets as a spinner as a chucker, if you do you lose control of things like flight and drift, and bowling an arm ball or slider is that much more difficult. Murali was unusually jointed in that he has far more flexibility in his wrist than most humans. It is said that he can flip his hamd back and touch the front of his wrist with the fingers on that hand. That said I always had my doubts about whether the doosra and the faster version of the doosra at that was legit.
And in Tests they found that Brett Lee straightened his arm much furtherthan Murali.
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England
That's the thing, it's a silly unenforceable limit but c'est la vie
I am biased and have a been in my bonnet about the ICC being pro-aussie but I am totally made up in my own (and the mind of 4 others) mind that Johnson is a chucker.
HOWEVER all the while he is in the side I always fancy the convicts to be weak, so long may he continue chucking!
I would not bat against him, although that's largely because I would hiding in the toilets shitting myself.
A 150Kmh left-armer on a club pitch? No thanks!
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England[/quote]
I was a bowler not a batsman...but Johnson's round arm delivery means that his action is not consistent, that's why he struggles with line and sprays it about. With a bowler like that I'd fancy my chances of getting a half-volley or two that i could dispatch and that is why he's having a bad Ashes series. England have been disciplined (mostly), they know they can afford to keep the straight stuff out and ignore the wide stuff because they'll get something hittable, be patient and he'll serve it up on a dish. Genuinely I think his action is legit though.
The worst bowlers are those who have a consistent stock ball and give the batsman little room to breathe, and then chuck in a faster ball, or a short fast delivery, yorker etc, that is why McGrath took so many wickets, with Gillespie, Lee, or Warne holding down one end batsmen were forced to try and score off him and he had a great habit of dragging batsman wider and getting edges.
You know what, last time I batted at club level for old Holcs' I got hit four times by a left armer once in the testicles (my fault) once under the left eye, once in the ARMPIT and one on the arse cheek when I completely pussied out of the shot and turned away (again, my fault). On the bright side I survived the over.
I later found out he was a saffa on work experiance with BAE and had chontered in his bosses ear about how he would love a go at learning how to bowl from his boss. He apparently played at a decent level back home and had been on first name terms with a few 2nd string South Africans and a couple of well known current first XI saffas.
When I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking about that balmy summers afternoon in 2005 I often tell myself it's true.
I'm pretty sure it was bullcrap though, told to me to make me feel better about shitting it from the last ball and getting deliberately run out (wasn't) in the next over
Well you can only pick XI. Yes I thought of Anderson Montgomery Everton but I wanted two out and out pacemen, Holding and Walsh and the one clever thinker - Marshall and Garner as the unusual bowler. Andy Roberts was a great bowler and his 2 types of bouncers legendary but for me he just didn't make it.
You know your cricket and although you're a bit younger than me I'd be interested in your two teams of those eras. I did it quickly off the top of my head and maybe there are better choices than Boon or Dean Jones.
No matter how I look at him I see him the same as you.
800 test wickets don't get given away but he chucks, and in the same way I view him I can't see Mitchell Johnson as anything other than a slinger/chucker
Malinga is ok though
Zaheer Khan and Anderson with a new ball in England next year will sort the men from the mice
I'll ask this though, would you, as a club cricketer, bat against a club bowler with an action like Johnsons? I don't think he would get a game in England[/quote]
I would not bat against him, although that's largely because I would hiding in the toilets shitting myself.
A 150Kmh left-armer on a club pitch? No thanks![/quote]
I once played with a guy who played Grade cricket in South Australia in the same team as Jason Gillespie. When Gillespie went back to play for this team he would be first change after my mate who though not quite 150km fast was hostile when he wanted to be. Generally he bowled a little within himself - in his first net session with his third/fourth ball he broke the arm of one of our players, so he cut the pace down. On one occasion however a member of the opposition got in an argument with him and called him a cretin, big mistake. I have never been as afriad on a cricket pitch as I was for about four/five overs and I was on the fielding side albeit at second slip. Ball after ball went screaming through at armpit height, most were jagging of the seam and it was odds on a batsman would edge one, at around 20 yards back I genuinely thought I'd stand no chance of reacting let alone catching it and I was the best slip fielder in the club.
Eventually he calmed down and did edge one and our keeper took a catch that defied the laws of gravity, thankfully nothing came my way.
With you on Marsh and D Hussey - but not White. I watched the three day game at the MCG before Christmas and White scratched around for a bit not doing much. I'd never been impressed with him before anyway, but for grins I turned and asked the old girl behind us why he never got a look-in for the test side. Next ball - very next ball mind you - he holed out to long on with one of the daftest shots you're likely to see. Don't know enough about Warner to make a comment either way - though he can't be much worse of a batsman than Philip Hughes.[/quote]
Also the young keeper tim paine is a better option than both smith and hughes. David warner hit's the ball harder than anyone i've ever seen. Last spotted whoring himself in the new zealand 2020 series while hughes was giving away his wicket.
9 wickets down now, Hilfenhaus gone.