I don't think they can attribute it to banter it sounded like they really meant it and personally I think it was right to expose it - you could argue that the whistleblower could've kept it in house I guess, but being the Murdoch empire, one would suspect that they'd be the person to lose out not the presenters. who would probably just get told to make sure the mic is off in future rather than reassess their attitude to women.
Did they say a "well done" to the lino for the tough call she made correctly?
Banter can often sound like you mean it- They should get a telling off but if they say they didn't mean it and it was a jokey conversation, it probably should end with both men apologising and confirming that it is not their view. If they both say it was their view, they should be sacked but I think you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]There mics were 'open' but not broadcasting, everything has to be recorded and these recordings were leaked.
But no it is in no way worse than hat they said. Very very clearly in the public interest.
Lets be straight, its not like it was a recording made of two people in their own house and totally unrelated to the image they portray to the public.
Very much like the Prescott affair before the election. Do you also believe that MPs should be allowed to voice personal views of the elctorate that they have just been seen to be smarming up to and not have this made available to the public.
well if you think that what they said was THAT bad that it deserves the public hanging they are getting from the vile filth that is The Daily Mail then you have different morals to me.
I think it's reprehensible that a work colleague can get away with recording a private conversation and then profit from it.
If i did that to somebody i work with i would expect the person ( and my other colleagues) to be extremely pissed off and would be watching my back when i walked home at night.
As for it being in the public interest , i find that comment both funny and sad. They are NOT politicians.
[cite]Posted By: JollyRobin[/cite]I think people releasing private conversations to the press is wrong,
Agreed, but if you had to work in the same studio as these two odious sexist self-important monlithic bullies, I guess there comes a breaking point.
Is it better to let them keep getting away with the facade or expose them for what they really are?
If Chris Powell's infectious smile and likeable manners and general demeanour hid the fact that he kicks cats in the dressing room at half time, I would rather know than continue to be fooled by the facade
Wasn't it Sky that released the tape of the comments that Gordon Brown made when he didn't realise he was still mic'd up just before the election? Clearly "off air" does not mean "off the record" as far as they are concerned
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]If Chris Powell's infectious smile and likeable manners and general demeanour hid the fact that he kicks cats in the dressing room at half time, I would rather know than continue to be fooled by the facade
Who let the bloody cats into the dressing room - that's no place for cats!
If that is the full transcript than frankly its is worse than I thought. To those who say it wrong to have released a private conversation I say that often its the only way to expose this kind of prejudice.
It is this secretive prejudice and glass ceilings against which women have to fight all the time. We will know when things have really changed completely for the better when women can undertake all of these so-called male dominated jobs without any murmur or reference to how unusual it is.
I wonder if many of us would accept a woman as manager of our football club? No, I didn't think we would? We would be concerned that woman don't have enough footballing ability to manage a male football team. What about if a different Powell - Hope and not Chris had applied. My guess is that she wouldn't have been considered in the first place and one of the major reasons would be that the fans wouldn't accept her.
Forty odd years ago, when I started watching football it would have been inconceivable that a black man might be our club manager, let alone a legend whose name we chanted on Saturday, we didn't have one black player at the time. Fortunately there has been change and absolutely for the better.
Karren Brady was the first, and pretty much the only managing director/CEO of a professional football club. Even though she ran Birmingham successfully and eventually the club was sold to foreign buyers, still people like Keys and Gray, piss and moan about her. It makes me angry.
We have come along way in forty years but there is still a way to go before true equality and people are judged not by their gender, race or background but just on their ability.
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]
Who let the bloody cats into the dressing room - that's no place for cats!
One of those useless male stewards.
Would never have happened if the women stewards were in charge of dressing room security.
The world cup all over again!
Imagine- every word/thing you say to be taken literally. No sarcasm or banter allowed. When I say to my wife in jest or to lovingly wind her up, men are better drivers than women - I could be arrested even when it is tongue in cheek and I don't mean it. Be careful what you wish for.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Imagine- every word/thing you say to be taken literally. No sarcasm or banter allowed. When I say to my wife in jest or to lovingly wind her up, men are better drivers than women - I could be arrested even when it is tongue in cheek and I don't mean it. Be careful what you wish for.
The full transcript suggests that it wasn't just banter. To me its the same kind of chat you get down the pub when people who think they are your friend say "don't get me wrong, I am not prejudiced against gays, I know quite a few gay people but......" and then they go on to spout a load of homo-phobic nonsense.
It is not possible to condone this by claiming it was a wind up or a jest in my opinion.
Isn't it funny how it's always the Middle Class Liberals that have to fight the case for others??????
I cannot be bothered to trawl through this thread but I blindly guess there are not many comments from women.
The following questions spring to mind:-
Why does any normal person strive to be an official at a football match? From U7's to the Professional game? Ask yourself. We all know a qualified Ref etc. Aren't they in the majority.....a bit odd?
Why on earth would a woman want to throw herself into such a career? In such a male dominated world? She must have an agenda, or at least issues???
Why FFS can we not say what we think? Women have no place in professional men’s football. FACT. Let them play or officiate within the women’s game. What is wrong with that??? Sexism my f**king a**e!! Men and Women are fundamentally different, didn't you know that?
Let women do their thing and us men do ours.
If Sky eventually sack Keys and Gray then I will dump Sky and will start a campaign to reinstate them.
Difference between so called sexism in SPORT and RACISIM????
One is based on ignorant, filthy bigotry and out dated ideas whilst the other is just a PC word for the way things really are.
That's a pretty true transcript from what I could make out. If you haven't heard it (Muttley, Bing etc), then I do recommend finding it - it was most certainly not "jokey banter".
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]Why on earth would a woman want to throw herself into such a career? In such a male dominated world? She must have an agenda, or at least issues???
I disagree- it may not have been but if you jokingly do a bit of machismo -you could say what they said in character. We can't know intent and have to take their word for it. If they said something similar in a professional capacity and not during a private conversation then by all means throw the book at them. We should all look to things we might have said in private conversations and I'm sure a lot of us will have stuff we could be hanged for - but it doesn't necessarily mean that we meant it.
I didn't ever say I thought it deserved the public hanging the Daily Mail gets. Very few people ever deserve what they get from the Mail. But tosay it shouldn't have been realsied is a position I don't agree with.
Do your conversations at work get recorded as a mattter of course? I suspect not, theirs do so this is something they should expect.
And no, they are not politicians and therefore if they had said the public sector spendign cuts are a good thing I would not think this was in the public interest.
They are, however, football commentators and made comments about their distaste for something in football. See the connection???
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Imagine- every word/thing you say to be taken literally. No sarcasm or banter allowed. When I say to my wife in jest or to lovingly wind her up, men are better drivers than women - I could be arrested even when it is tongue in cheek and I don't mean it. Be careful what you wish for.
The full transcript suggests that it wasn't just banter.
Go to YouTube and listen to it.
Its the kind of conversation i hear all the time .
It's something out of nothing. Exactly what The Mail specialises in.
I wouldnt be surprised if tomorrow they are telling you that Andy gray gives you cancer.
What if they apologise and say they didn't mean it - My point is- if they do that- it has to be enough as we can't prove what they were thinking. If they say openly that it is their view- then there is action to be taken.
I hate the way Twitter gets used as a witch-hunt nowadays too.
Jokey banter about a woman being able to understand the offside rule does not bother me, its just banter. But unfortunately for Keys he comes across as sneering and condescending and obviously he isnt as popular as he thinks is.
Do shut up Chirpy you old windbag. Im sure any woman encountering your attitude might have "issues"... an issue like kicking you up your backside.
What is wrong with everyone? We had exactly the same conversation here at work. Real men, in the majority, do not want women professionally involved in football!!!!
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]I didn't ever say I thought it deserved the public hanging the Daily Mail gets. Very few people ever deserve what they get from the Mail. But tosay it shouldn't have been realsied is a position I don't agree with.
Do your conversations at work get recorded as a mattter of course? I suspect not, theirs do so this is something they should expect.
And no, they are not politicians and therefore if they had said the public sector spending cuts are a good thing I would not think this was in the public interest.
They are, however, football commentators and made comments about their distaste for something in football. See the connection???
It was a PRIVATE conversation. If everything i said or did in private was all of a sudden open to the public a don't expect my family could look me in the eye! and i expect that to be the same of everyone .
What they said is irrelevant ( and dull ) the worst crime is breach of trust.
Look they said it because thats a view they hold so frigging what,Gray whatever you think has more grasp on football matters than anyone who has posted so just because he makes a point many people may think but not say he gets vilified. People relating it to racism behave yourselfs
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]Of course they meant it!!!!
What is wrong with everyone? We had exactly the same conversation here at work. Real men, in the majority, do not want women professionally involved in football!!!!
GET REAL!!!!
Your right they meant it. But they only meant it to be kept to themselves.
[cite]Posted By: Bedsaddick[/cite]Sill nobody here , except me , thinks the taping and the disribution of the commemets is far more disgusting than the comments themselves.
This person is the lowest form of life regardless of what Keys or Gray said.
Am i alone ?
Agree. I felt exactly the same about the lowlifes at Sky who released recordings of a private conversation that Gordon Brown had during the last election.
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]Isn't it funny how it's always the Middle Class Liberals that have to fight the case for others??????
When Pit and Wilberforce sat down under the famous oak tree near Keston in Kent and planned the abolition of the Slave Trade, did they have to do this? They weren't slaves so why should they care.
More bleeding heart liberals standing up for others eh?
Comments
Did they say a "well done" to the lino for the tough call she made correctly?
well if you think that what they said was THAT bad that it deserves the public hanging they are getting from the vile filth that is The Daily Mail then you have different morals to me.
I think it's reprehensible that a work colleague can get away with recording a private conversation and then profit from it.
If i did that to somebody i work with i would expect the person ( and my other colleagues) to be extremely pissed off and would be watching my back when i walked home at night.
As for it being in the public interest , i find that comment both funny and sad. They are NOT politicians.
Agreed, but if you had to work in the same studio as these two odious sexist self-important monlithic bullies, I guess there comes a breaking point.
Is it better to let them keep getting away with the facade or expose them for what they really are?
If Chris Powell's infectious smile and likeable manners and general demeanour hid the fact that he kicks cats in the dressing room at half time, I would rather know than continue to be fooled by the facade
Who let the bloody cats into the dressing room - that's no place for cats!
It is this secretive prejudice and glass ceilings against which women have to fight all the time. We will know when things have really changed completely for the better when women can undertake all of these so-called male dominated jobs without any murmur or reference to how unusual it is.
I wonder if many of us would accept a woman as manager of our football club? No, I didn't think we would? We would be concerned that woman don't have enough footballing ability to manage a male football team. What about if a different Powell - Hope and not Chris had applied. My guess is that she wouldn't have been considered in the first place and one of the major reasons would be that the fans wouldn't accept her.
Forty odd years ago, when I started watching football it would have been inconceivable that a black man might be our club manager, let alone a legend whose name we chanted on Saturday, we didn't have one black player at the time. Fortunately there has been change and absolutely for the better.
Karren Brady was the first, and pretty much the only managing director/CEO of a professional football club. Even though she ran Birmingham successfully and eventually the club was sold to foreign buyers, still people like Keys and Gray, piss and moan about her. It makes me angry.
We have come along way in forty years but there is still a way to go before true equality and people are judged not by their gender, race or background but just on their ability.
One of those useless male stewards.
Would never have happened if the women stewards were in charge of dressing room security.
The world cup all over again!
The full transcript suggests that it wasn't just banter. To me its the same kind of chat you get down the pub when people who think they are your friend say "don't get me wrong, I am not prejudiced against gays, I know quite a few gay people but......" and then they go on to spout a load of homo-phobic nonsense.
It is not possible to condone this by claiming it was a wind up or a jest in my opinion.
I cannot be bothered to trawl through this thread but I blindly guess there are not many comments from women.
The following questions spring to mind:-
Why does any normal person strive to be an official at a football match? From U7's to the Professional game? Ask yourself. We all know a qualified Ref etc. Aren't they in the majority.....a bit odd?
Why on earth would a woman want to throw herself into such a career? In such a male dominated world? She must have an agenda, or at least issues???
Why FFS can we not say what we think? Women have no place in professional men’s football. FACT. Let them play or officiate within the women’s game. What is wrong with that??? Sexism my f**king a**e!! Men and Women are fundamentally different, didn't you know that?
Let women do their thing and us men do ours.
If Sky eventually sack Keys and Gray then I will dump Sky and will start a campaign to reinstate them.
Difference between so called sexism in SPORT and RACISIM????
One is based on ignorant, filthy bigotry and out dated ideas whilst the other is just a PC word for the way things really are.
Do your conversations at work get recorded as a mattter of course? I suspect not, theirs do so this is something they should expect.
And no, they are not politicians and therefore if they had said the public sector spendign cuts are a good thing I would not think this was in the public interest.
They are, however, football commentators and made comments about their distaste for something in football. See the connection???
What are you on????????????????
Go to YouTube and listen to it.
Its the kind of conversation i hear all the time .
It's something out of nothing. Exactly what The Mail specialises in.
I wouldnt be surprised if tomorrow they are telling you that Andy gray gives you cancer.
Give me a break.
I am the middle class liberal that you claim to hate, and proud of it.
So just because you hear lots of things that are plainly wrong, that makes it right does it?
Jokey banter about a woman being able to understand the offside rule does not bother me, its just banter. But unfortunately for Keys he comes across as sneering and condescending and obviously he isnt as popular as he thinks is.
Do shut up Chirpy you old windbag. Im sure any woman encountering your attitude might have "issues"... an issue like kicking you up your backside.
What is wrong with everyone? We had exactly the same conversation here at work. Real men, in the majority, do not want women professionally involved in football!!!!
GET REAL!!!!
It was a PRIVATE conversation. If everything i said or did in private was all of a sudden open to the public a don't expect my family could look me in the eye! and i expect that to be the same of everyone .
What they said is irrelevant ( and dull ) the worst crime is breach of trust.
Your right they meant it. But they only meant it to be kept to themselves.
I never said it was right . thats not my point. It was a private conversation.
Well I mean there are so many bloody poofs on here! I'm only talking professionally. Let women fight their own battles.
IT IS NOT RACISM!!!!!
When Pit and Wilberforce sat down under the famous oak tree near Keston in Kent and planned the abolition of the Slave Trade, did they have to do this? They weren't slaves so why should they care.
More bleeding heart liberals standing up for others eh?