I love the way we ignore the fact that the Greeks invented maths over two thousand years ago (where are you now, Thales, when your country needs you?). So, any argument based on post-1980s teaching methods falls a little flat in my book.
The absence of brackets confuses, but the rules are clear. Doing the operations from left to right is wrong because, if you wrote them in a different order, you'd get a different result. So the hierarchy of 'power' followed by 'multiplication/division' then 'addition/subtraction' must always be adhered to.
41 it is. Any other answer betrays classical learning and you'll have Stephen Fry to answer to.
On a separate note, there is an easier explanation for the fact that 2^0 = 1 (or indeed any number to the power of zero being 1) and it goes like this:
2^4 = 2x2x2x2 = 16
2^3 = 2x2x2 = 8 (ie 16 divided by 2)
2^2 = 2x2 = 4 (ie 8 divided by 2)
2^1 = 2 (ie 4 divided by 2)
2^0 = 1 (ie 2 divided by 2)
Finally ... 0 divided by 0?
Think about it in financial terms. You have zero coins and you plan to divide them equally among zero people. How many coins does each person get?
There are no people. There are no coins. So the question is nonsense. You might as well ask "what colour is happiness?"
The answer of course is that red is the colour of happiness.
I have an O-Level in Maths.(Cambridge Examination Board 1982) Not an A -Level in Pure or Applied Maths etc.
When I took my "O-Level" many, many years ago there was NO BODMAS(HIT).
The ONLY rule was "Brackets First". Nothing more, nothing less.
If the world of education wants to change the rules now, well that's fine with me. I am Grandfathered.
There are no brackets in this sum so the answer is 1.
End of chat.
The bloke who explained it to me is in his mid fifties, he did O -Level, he was taught BODMAS, he passed. Loathe though I am to admit it, he is right, we are wrong Chirps. The answer is 41, read previous postings or google it. WE were taught wrong.
There are 2 possible answers and am willing to bet that all those that thought the previous answer was '41' would answer this one with '2' and all those that thought the previous answer was '1' would answer this one with '3'.
I said 3 to this straight away, but I thought the answer to the original sum was 81! :-/
OK, I'm going to do one of those Maths Puzzles from the newspaper - you know, the ones that state 'this should be done in 30 secs....' Just using this funky BODMAS method; great, do that multiplication first, bit of division now and now a little add and subtract. Oh hold on, I got it completely wrong. Perhaps they just intended me to do the sum from left to right.
Think about it in financial terms. You have zero coins and you plan to divide them equally among zero people. How many coins does each person get?
There are no people. There are no coins. So the question is nonsense. You might as well ask "what colour is happiness?"
Spot on, it's complete nonsense, even more so than the questions in this thread!
If you divide something a cake between 2 people, they get half each. By one person they get the whole cake, by half a person they get 2 cakes as 2 times a half is one. Continuing, by a quarter of person they get 4 each, by a hundredth of a person a 100 cakes each. As each fraction gets smaller it gets closer to 0 but not never reaches 0 and the amount of cake increases. So as you get closer to 0 the amount of cake gets closer to infinity.
Therefore 1/x tends to infinite as x tends to infinite, that's as close as you can get to an answer to 0/0.
Brackets first, that was the way I was was taught late 1970's early 80's. Dont remember anyone mentioning BODMAS/BIDMAS but I did go to a school/college where potato peeling was considered a qualification.
Final attempt, using my 'coins in a bag' scenario.
Look at what the equation is trying to describe.
You have a bag with 40 coins in it. You have 40 bags, each with no coins in them. You have a bag with one coin in it.
How many coins do you have?
I thank you.
I always knew that my GCE (yes, GCE) in Maths, plus Grade A A-levels in Pure Maths and Applied Maths, Honours degree in Chemistry and PhD would pay off one day.
Final attempt, using my 'coins in a bag' scenario.
Look at what the equation is trying to describe.
You have a bag with 40 coins in it. You have 40 bags, each with no coins in them. You have a bag with one coin in it.
How many coins do you have?
I thank you.
I always knew that my GCE (yes, GCE) in Maths, plus Grade A A-levels in Pure Maths and Applied Maths, Honours degree in Chemistry and PhD would pay off one day.
This is correct. If we say there are imaginary brackets and we apply BODMAS/BISMAS or even CHRISTMAS, you would have to write the equation thus
(40) + (40 x 0) + (1)
Use BODMAS
= 40 + 0 + 1 = 41
Oh and by the way when I was at school in 1970's BODMAS stood for
Brackets Out
Divide
Multiply
Add
Subtract
Brackets out meaning you did the calculation within the brackets first to remove them and then applied DMAS
I'm not sure why there's the even a debate here. The rules of solving mathematical equations have been in place for thousands of years, and that equation as written can only possibly equal 41. All of us, no matter how old or young, were taught at school to do brackets first, then multiplication, division, addition then subtraction. Now whether the teacher called it BODMAS, BIDMAS or didn't give it an easy to remember acronym is neither here nor there.
Those claiming they were taught some other way, were either unlucky to get an incompetent teacher, or are simply mis-remembering their lessons.
The person who said they tried the maths teaser in the paper and got the wrong answer, therefore BODMAS doesn't work, I would suggest the question was just beyond your mathematical ability. It's designed to be hard, if it was simple to solve, they wouldn't bother printing it!
Interpretation only comes into this if the equation in question is represented as a paragraph, where punctuation and natural pauses infer bracketing that simply isn't there in the equation given at the top of this thread.
Unless someone has changed the rules since I was at school, there's no special formula, it's as simple as 'Follow each step one at a time'. So 40 + 40 = 80 then 80 THE RESULT x 0 = 0. Then 0 THE RESULT + 1 = 1. Bang done. There's no running ahead and adding stuff before you've even got to it. Each sum is done one step at a time.
Only if each part of the equation was on separate lines, and your maths education ended at age 7
Actually, that's unfair, bodmas is taught in key stage 3, which starts at 11, though many primary schools will teach it if they stream students, which mine did for maths in the 80s
I'm not sure why there's the even a debate here. The rules of solving mathematical equations have been in place for thousands of years, and that equation as written can only possibly equal 41. All of us, no matter how old or young, were taught at school to do brackets first, then multiplication, division, addition then subtraction. Now whether the teacher called it BODMAS, BIDMAS or didn't give it an easy to remember acronym is neither here nor there.
Those claiming they were taught some other way, were either unlucky to get an incompetent teacher, or are simply mis-remembering their lessons.
The person who said they tried the maths teaser in the paper and got the wrong answer, therefore BODMAS doesn't work, I would suggest the question was just beyond your mathematical ability. It's designed to be hard, if it was simple to solve, they wouldn't bother printing it!
Interpretation only comes into this if the equation in question is represented as a paragraph, where punctuation and natural pauses infer bracketing that simply isn't there in the equation given at the top of this thread.
How can you miss the point so much?
Nobody, or at least no one sane, would use BODMAS for one of those Maths teasers in the paper. I (jokingly) did and got it wrong. So you only get to the correct answer (as given by a national newspaper) if you don't use BODMAS. Geddit.
BTW, incorrect use of the word infer in your final sentence. You should have used imply.
Unless someone has changed the rules since I was at school, there's no special formula, it's as simple as 'Follow each step one at a time'. So 40 + 40 = 80 then 80 THE RESULT x 0 = 0. Then 0 THE RESULT + 1 = 1. Bang done. There's no running ahead and adding stuff before you've even got to it. Each sum is done one step at a time.
No one changed the rules since you were at school, you're just wrong.
Jesus, this thread is depressing. 41 is correct. Mathematically correct. Everyone on this thread with a grasp of Maths has said the answer is 41. Lots of them have explained why. Everyone who has said the answer is anything else is wrong. All of THEIR explanations have been flawed. Mathematically.
Why do some people insist on continuing to stand firm on a subject that is obviously not their area of expertise, in the face of repeated correction by people whose area of expertise IS MATHEMATICS?
Comments
The answer of course is that red is the colour of happiness.
Answer is 1 though as 80x0 is 0, the brackets make all the difference.
(40+40)x(0+1)=80
((40+40)x0)+1=1
40+(40x0)+1=41 etc.....
Fingers in the ears, eyes shut... ever considered a job in politics Chirps?
I've got a maths O level and I was taught BODMAS in the 1970s but I went to a better school than Chirpy.
A quick bit of research with 12+13 yo says its now called BIdmas
Go join the dole q
8+)
so 40 times zero = zero
then
40 plus zero plus one equals 41
other sum
half of two equals one
one plus two then equals three
I studied a bit of maths, but would consider it more common sense to be honest.
but it is 1am and I'm smasheded.
I was taught BIDMAS and I'm 46.
BIDMAS or BODMAS it's still 41.
If you divide something a cake between 2 people, they get half each. By one person they get the whole cake, by half a person they get 2 cakes as 2 times a half is one. Continuing, by a quarter of person they get 4 each, by a hundredth of a person a 100 cakes each. As each fraction gets smaller it gets closer to 0 but not never reaches 0 and the amount of cake increases. So as you get closer to 0 the amount of cake gets closer to infinity.
Therefore 1/x tends to infinite as x tends to infinite, that's as close as you can get to an answer to 0/0.
Therefore it cannot be 1. It has to be 41. Or if BWP can up his goal to game equation a further bracket or two, possibly 81 !!!
Final attempt, using my 'coins in a bag' scenario.
Look at what the equation is trying to describe.
You have a bag with 40 coins in it. You have 40 bags, each with no coins in them. You have a bag with one coin in it.
How many coins do you have?
I thank you.
I always knew that my GCE (yes, GCE) in Maths, plus Grade A A-levels in Pure Maths and Applied Maths, Honours degree in Chemistry and PhD would pay off one day.
Those claiming they were taught some other way, were either unlucky to get an incompetent teacher, or are simply mis-remembering their lessons.
The person who said they tried the maths teaser in the paper and got the wrong answer, therefore BODMAS doesn't work, I would suggest the question was just beyond your mathematical ability. It's designed to be hard, if it was simple to solve, they wouldn't bother printing it!
Interpretation only comes into this if the equation in question is represented as a paragraph, where punctuation and natural pauses infer bracketing that simply isn't there in the equation given at the top of this thread.
Actually, that's unfair, bodmas is taught in key stage 3, which starts at 11, though many primary schools will teach it if they stream students, which mine did for maths in the 80s
41 is correct. Mathematically correct.
Everyone on this thread with a grasp of Maths has said the answer is 41. Lots of them have explained why.
Everyone who has said the answer is anything else is wrong. All of THEIR explanations have been flawed. Mathematically.
Why do some people insist on continuing to stand firm on a subject that is obviously not their area of expertise, in the face of repeated correction by people whose area of expertise IS MATHEMATICS?