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Charlton v Bury Post-Match Views

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  • my views
    the weather didnt help and we are quick to moan .... stevens can frustrate as well as please,we definitely lost it for 10 mins in the 2nd half,JJ didnt put much of a shift in ,green has lost a bit of confidence ,again like stevens his decision making lets him down,my impressions of clarke arent favourable (although id like to be proved wrong),if bwp doesnt play then haynes has to

    having said that a loss would have been daylight robbery ...i dont think we took the game enough to Bury ,i think they were there for the taking as was obvious when haynes came on ,if haynes had started we would have won ..JJ and hollands looked a bit tired
  • finally got to my seat as the teams were coming out to find no BWP & Clarke in his place !!!!!! Bad move by SCP - if you are going to "rest" your top-scorer who is short & quick then don't repalce him with a big lump who is tall & slow !! I'm not going to diss Clarke at this stage & will give a few more games to prove himself - but don't think he is good enough & certainly not Championship levcel.
    blimey, when the dissing begins I fear for Clarke!
  • edited February 2012
    Less said the better about last night so in as few words as possible; Keeper's distribution poor and looked as if the goal went through him, Full backs were immense Wiggins shaded it as MOM, Taylor could have done better for their goal and missed a sitter the other end making Morrison the better of the CBs, Midfield was poor apart from Stephens who kept probing and what a great goal! Front two never complimented one another Yann a different man when Haynes came on. A point was better than nothing, changes needed for Saturday. Pritchard in for Green at right midfield and BWP for Clarke or go 4-3-3 drop Clarke and Green with BWP and Haynes up front meaning Yann and Haynes alternating to drop back into midfield. Perhaps a blessing in disguise 'wake up' call. No need to push the panic button. COYR now go and make Rochdale pay for it on Saturday................... please!
  • I thought Bury's plan was to have more defenders than our forwards -which was fair enough but we didn't support them enough and needed to push more forawrds. There were a couple of crosses that were only poor because there were not enough people fighting to get into the area to attack them. In a game like that, the extra midfielder (Jackson) was a bit of a luxury, but how could Chrissy drop him after recent performances? I would have subbed him for Haynes at half time though. He is a great player and captain but some games just suit a different approach! Suspect Saturday may be similar and the management team will have to work out a plan to offer a bit more offensively. Was impressed with Haynes by the way - looks to have blistering pace and league one defences hate that!
  • As most people have said, surprised that CP went for Clarke instead of Haynes and we looked allot more dangerous when he did come on.

    Saying that, I still don't think he was as bad as some people have made out, had a couple of poor touches but if it wasn't for a great save from the keeper he would have been on the score sheet.

    Green seemed very lazy at times and seems to wimp out of tackles that he should be going for then petulantly gets himself booked for something stupid.

    Thought Hamer should have done better for the goal, we should have definitely had a pen for that handball.

    At the end of the day 1-1 isn't a bad result as long as we get 3 again on Saturday.
  • Sat v Rochdael drop Green and put Waggy in. Drop Clarke and put Haynes in.
    This ....... Maybe give Pritchard a run in Midfield at some stage too
    Stephens has the central midfield slot alongside Hollands now in my opinion, as at the start of the season. He has the technical ability and class that Pritchard currently does not. It was this ability that got us the point last night. Pritchard is a good energetic option from the bench either to replace a tiring Hollands or on the wing for Green. I like the lad, but I feel he could benefit on going out on a loan for a while and gaining league experience that way.
  • Haven't read through the other posts yet so a couple of thoughts from me.

    Seem to remember people saying that if Kinsella was out of sorts, then so was the team as a whole and that's the way it appeared to me last night....with Danny Hollands being the key player. Not greatly worried though - maybe when SCP "tinkers " with the starting eleven, we have to expect a bit of bedding in and the result was better than the Stevenage one.

    Not overly impressed with Nobby & felt Danny mark 3 looked a better option when he enetered the arena.

    Two standout players for me & no surprises there ...the magnificent Solly & Wiggins.

    Think SCP & co will have learned a lot from this performance which will stand them in good stead for similar contests in the remainder of the season.

    Bring on Rochdale !
  • I don't think Clarke was awful and would have been interesting to see him play with Haynes and Kermogant as we went for it. I thought we were comfortable in midfield and didn't need the extra man there and Wiggins was doing stirling work patrolling the left.

    Clarke and Kermogant was worth a look and Powell will have learned something from that, but I think at the moment Clarke is a good player to introduce when we are leading as he is a tidy player.
  • edited February 2012
    bad day at the office but more than happy with the point in the end

    wiggy was unreal with his runs, our very own gareth bale !

    hamer had a mare for that goal, a proper pathetic attempt at saving that and he's gotta liven up on that sort of thing, not good enough last night

    too many nothingy performances out there but as long as they respond properly on saturday it can be forgiven and hopefully will be a wake up call that we don't just have to turn up to win the league

    haynes has a bundle of pace but also has the touch of clarke as well , in the build up to our goal he overcooks his touch that morrison?? then shoots for the keeper to parry before stephens's strike from heaven ,,,, well done a charlton player got one on target!

    champions 45% runners up 35% play offs 20%

    that worried me a bit last night
  • edited February 2012
    It would worry me if the answers were not so obvious - Maybe it was a good game for BWP not to play in - might be fresh and raring to go on Saturday. I'd like to see us find a space for Haynes on Saturday, but not at the expense of Green, Kermogant or BWP. That would mean resting one of Hollands, Stephens or JJ. Not a tactic for every game or even most games, but the right way to go when you are playing the likes of Bury or Rochdale at home.
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  • Clarke will probably be okay with either BWP or Haynes feeding off him. He should be an alternative to Kermo or Hayes, not played with.
  • Frustrating, but not as bad as some are making out.
    Definitely deserved our point and, if the finishing had been better, we'd have won comfortably.
    Hamer has admitted his mistake, so we move on.
    Steven's strike was amongst the best I've ever seen live.
    Haynes is one of the quickest players I've seen and he should cause absolute mayhem at this level.
    Wiggins is fantastic and will go right to the top.
  • Yes, agree - were some real positives when you think about them mid life. Haynes looks to me to be a terrific signing, we need to see more of him and Wiggins will be a premiership player with a ccouple of years (hopefully with us). Though Solly was terrific too - he just seems to have something about him that wont accept being beaten. Also the late goal meant we left reasonably happy rather than frustrated which could have had a greater impact on Saturday.
  • Yes, agree - were some real positives when you think about them mid life. Haynes looks to me to be a terrific signing, we need to see more of him and Wiggins will be a premiership player with a ccouple of years (hopefully with us). Though Solly was terrific too - he just seems to have something about him that wont accept being beaten. Also the late goal meant we left reasonably happy rather than frustrated which could have had a greater impact on Saturday.
    Exactly.

  • edited February 2012
    I think on another night we would have won this game comfortably. We were unlucky to go one down and Bury hardly ever threatened. Two or three of our better players had off days but we would still have trotted out easy winners if we had scored first. The ball didnt fall for us on the night - 1-0 would have been a travesty of justice although, to be fair, Bury worked hard for everything they got. Bury are halfway up the table - if you have an off day and a few of your best players are below par, a draw doesnt seem to be a disaster to me.

    If there's a concern, it's in the striking department. Wiggins and Solly looked the most capable of beating defenders and delivering good crosses, while Morrison made an immediate impact when he went up front for the last 10 mins. I agree with others that Kermogant's flicks need someone more direct like Haynes up front to put pressure on the defence. It was strange how a defence that had conceded several half chances without panicking went into panic mode once Haynes and Morrison were up there.

    A good performance on Saturday will do the trick
  • I think it serves to illustrate that we weren't creating enough pressure on them - needed another offensive body sooner. Yes, we had the chances to win the game comfortably but we would have had more chances had we been a bit more adventurous against what I still think was quite a poor Bury side.
  • we've not been creating many chances for a while so as soon as an opposition team scores first a lot of people felt we would struggle and we did - but we salvaged a point, Stephens has dusted himself down, BWP will be eager to play again and Powell has an opportunity to maybe make another change in midfield.
  • But that is fair enough against better opposition and away from home, but I think we had a lot of time yesterday in the middle and our defensive thirds and the game need a different approach. On another day, a couple of our chances whould have gone in but I think we could have created more and the odds would have worked better for us had we did.
  • I thought a major problem for us was central midfield

    Hollands looks knackered, while Stephens was seriously lacking in match fitness, and as a result, neither was available enough for the defence to pass out to, hence a lot of hoofs out, while at the other end neither was able to bomb on into the box and support the front 2, so on the rare occasions when we got a decent cross in, nobody was there. Stephens was spraying the ball around quite pleasingly in a Michael Carrick manner, but never got near the opposition penalty area.

    If we are to play Stephens at the moment, we need someone more energetic to play alongside him and do the running. Hollands needs a rest, a shame Russell isn't available on Saturday.
  • personally would give Philips a rest this weekend too, send him somewhere for some serious relaxation and recovery, and maybe rest some others. Perhaps start Haynes and Clark to give Kermo a rest. It's a shame we didn't rest more players in my view, or perhaps there is an easier game to do this? in no particular order and not all at once those needing a rest include

    Hollands
    Green (form)
    Hamer (form)
    Kermo
    Wiggins (bookings)/Solly on alternate weeks so they each get a week off

    Mix it up, and maybe we'll drop points but I think we need to arrest the 'slide' pronto
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  • Disjointed performance where we couldn't keep possession long enough to stamp authority on the match.
    Going by stats didnt we have 60% possession at HT?
  • We had a lot of posession but because we didn't have enough numbers in their defensive third (IMO) the final ball was often poor because it was desperate.
  • I haven't been to any home games this season so far, just to a few away games, where, from what I have seen, we tend to play a defensive type of game and rely on fast breaks from defence. The midfield has looked more solid with Hughes playing but his time is probably up now that Stephens is back from injury and Pritchard has developed so well.
    Why have the goals dried up at the valley? .. is it that opponents do little else but park the bus ?, is it a lack of midfield guile and the ability to provide Kermorgant and Wright-Phillips with any chances ?, is it that the strikers have lost form and possibly motivation ? or is it that the defensive model employed away from home has over influenced recent home performances ?. We are so far ahead at the moment that the apparant inability to score is not yet a problem. Personally I would rather a 1-0 win than a 5-4 defeat or 3-3 draw, but this lack of goals is a concern.
  • edited February 2012
    I think the defensive model has stuckk a bit because it has been working - and no doubt it will continue to work - but it should be abandoned for certain ngames.
  • With all the talk about Clarke and his perceived shortcomings, it's worth remembering that his being here was partly a function of Benson leaving. I think he's the only player CP has signed with more to the deal than just plain wanting a player in. Perhaps an element of compromise in the decision? Perhaps it's showing?
  • I haven't been to any home games this season so far, just to a few away games, where, from what I have seen, we tend to play a defensive type of game and rely on fast breaks from defence. The midfield has looked more solid with Hughes playing but his time is probably up now that Stephens is back from injury and Pritchard has developed so well.
    Why have the goals dried up at the valley? .. is it that opponents do little else but park the bus ?, is it a lack of midfield guile and the ability to provide Kermorgant and Wright-Phillips with any chances ?, is it that the strikers have lost form and possibly motivation ? or is it that the defensive model employed away from home has over influenced recent home performances ?. We are so far ahead at the moment that the apparant inability to score is not yet a problem. Personally I would rather a 1-0 win than a 5-4 defeat or 3-3 draw, but this lack of goals is a concern.
    If sides play 4-5-1 against us we need to work some flexible options. The two full backs need to push into midfield, JJ tuck in and Green/Waggy join Yannand BWP up top with the two nippier guys running the channels into the corners and putting it accross for midfielders joining in.
  • edited February 2012
    One option in games like these is to play 3 at the back but it would leave us a bit at risk from set pieces so you then have to look in midfield. Having Hollands, Stephens and JJ is excellent in terms of winning the midfield battles in tight hotly contested games, but what about games when you are going to win the midfield battles with two of them because opponents ensure they are getting players behind the ball? A system that works well should still be reviewed in terms of how effective it is in dealing with the different challenge.
  • How would playing 3 defenders at the back leave us at risk from set pieces, Muttley?
    *scratches head*

    Surely when defending a set piece you bring most players back to defend?

  • Let me enlighten you - we need height for set pieces - as Solly and Wiggins are key players- it would men leaving out Morrison or Taylor- thus exposing us more in the air as we don't have that many tall players in other positions.
  • Plenty of fight tonight ... And Powell trying to mix it up... Trying to solve the lack of goals ...
    Haven't read the rest of the thread

    last time our forwards scored from open play - Walsall away, Kerm
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