Valley McMoist said: » show previous quotes Finally....A Millwall fan who admits we're rivals
MillwallFan said: I've never said we wasn't rivals. You can't have grounds just over 3 miles apart and not be rivals. It's just seen as a particularly special rivalry by most of our fans. And you lot certainly have a lot more hatred for us than we do for you. Miles more.
Wonder why that is.............nope really can't fathom it out :-0
The crowd at the Toolbox the other Saturday was the quietest I have heard for a long time. If they really believed that it would condemn us then why didn't they create the intimidating atmosphere which is normally there when we visit them ?
It is a fact that Millwall's highest crowds over the past 5 years are against Charlton yet when we play the Spanners at the Valley despite the away end being full the crowd would be approximately only around our average figure.
Despite this there is an insistence that we are not as big rivals as West Ham , a club that the Lions play competitively on average once every 10 years. In my opinion that rivalry is about delusions of grandeur or it is not about football but groups of hooligans or historical dockers disputes.
In terms of a football rivalry Millwall have played Orient far more times than West Ham, so given the fact that the Spanners are really an East London club maybe the O's are their natural rivals.
Games V west ham are strictly members only. Charlton games anyone can get a ticket. As for selling out at The Valium, we usually always sell out away to the other London clubs, even the likes of brentford, orient etc. why wouldn't we? It's a local game. Charlton are geographically our closest rivals so there's always going to be a big crowd v you lot. It's never seen as a proper needle match though, like west ham, palace or even Leeds.
Finally....A Millwall fan who admits we're rivals
I've never said we wasn't rivals. You can't have grounds just over 3 miles apart and not be rivals. It's just seen as a particularly special rivalry by most of our fans. And you lot certainly have a lot more hatred for us than we do for you. Miles more.
There is a lot more to despise about you lot though. Its not an achievement being hated. But then you don't have much else to shout about.
Question to Millwall supporters???? Do you think perhaps the fact that you don't play West Ham regularly might build the hatred up??? Absence makes the heart.....
West Ham fans i know are far more interested in spurs. Fast becoming a one way rivalry. Its obvious Millwall hate West Ham more than anyone but West Ham are a miles bigger club and are on a different level in every way apart from a few hooligans who still live in the past.
Don't think you can call it a rivalry its more just hatred when the clubs are so different in size, history, fan base and league status.
It's a local rivalry. It's not just about football is it. It's area v area.
What area does Millwall represent then ?
If it is South London then both ourselves and Palace have played against the happy Hammers more. Or is it the old East End Docks from where both clubs originated ?
What part of the rivalry is about football?
I just said it's not all about football. I've been to enough Milwall v West Ham games to know there is enough hatred on both sides. I know enough West Ham fans who hate us.
It doesn't particularly matter whether you think that way or not. The few games we have show the fierceness of the rivalry and hopefully that continues, whether we only play once every decade or not.
I understand the fierceness of some peoples emotions.
I also understand that being created north of the River ,Millwall still has a following in the old East End. Indeed Bob Crow was an example of this. Crow was an Eastender whose family followed the club from its origins on the Isle of Dogs.
I am still waiting for the football related reason. I know its not 'all' about football, but I am struggling to discover what part of it is.
West Ham fans i know are far more interested in spurs. Fast becoming a one way rivalry. Its obvious Millwall hate West Ham more than anyone but West Ham are a miles bigger club and are on a different level in every way apart from a few hooligans who still live in the past.
Don't think you can call it a rivalry its more just hatred when the clubs are so different in size, history, fan base and league status.
It's a local rivalry. It's not just about football is it. It's area v area.
What area does Millwall represent then ?
If it is South London then both ourselves and Palace have played against the happy Hammers more. Or is it the old East End Docks from where both clubs originated ?
What part of the rivalry is about football?
I just said it's not all about football. I've been to enough Milwall v West Ham games to know there is enough hatred on both sides. I know enough West Ham fans who hate us.
It doesn't particularly matter whether you think that way or not. The few games we have show the fierceness of the rivalry and hopefully that continues, whether we only play once every decade or not.
I understand the fierceness of some peoples emotions.
I also understand that being created north of the River ,Millwall still has a following in the old East End. Indeed Bob Crow was an example of this. Crow was an Eastender whose family followed the club from its origins on the Isle of Dogs.
I am still waiting for the football related reason. I know its not 'all' about football, but I am struggling to discover what part of it is.
Er, without the football, no rivalry would exist would it. Each team provides it's followers with the identity and community with which to support.
Surely that's what football clubs represent? The community that follows it. Without it's followers, football clubs cease to exist.
Whilst there are very few similarities between the clubs on the pitch, the community that follows each club share many things.
There isn't much of a footballing rivalry between us either. It's the most one sided derby in English football. It's not like we've spent years competing with each other for premier league success, or fighting to sign the same players or battling each other to the final day for South London supremacy. We've generally lagged behind both yourselves & Palace with regards to on the pitch success.
But there's still a rivalry. & that's because of where we're from, who we know, what Charlton / Palace fans feel they represent and what you think we represent. You hate us not due to football reasons, but because you view us an ignorant, violent, animals. You dislike Millwall due to us, the fans, not for what our players are doing on the pitch.
Most rivalries are driven by the fans & communities, not by football.
Only very few are primarily driven by football. The rivalry grew massively between Arsenal & United when both were fighting eachother on the pitch.
A win against Blackburn will change the picture considerably. When only 3 points are what separates the bottom three anything can happen. Millwall are no way out of it at all. But if they do go down Berylson will have another big deficit to cover. I really do not understand why he pumps so much investment into them. Must just love hearing the 'Milllllllll' chant I guess?
Conned by Theo Paphitis, Fooled by thinking Millwall would attract corporate clients from the city, Mugged by Lewisham council selling the redevelopment land. Can see him walking.
How was he conned by Paphitus?
Yep, there was quite a big gap between Paphitis and Berylson. Other than that, amazed how much you lot know about our club. And 13 page thread on us? And we're YOUR cup final?? Obsessed springs to mind.
2 weeks ago your crowd v us was 16k. On saturday your crowd was less than 9k. You lot must've all been skint after turning out for your biggest game of the season. Your biggest crowd is always against us. Our biggest crowd is never against you. I think it's quite clear that we are YOUR cup final. Thanks for coming.
The game against you was the one everyone thought would save us and condemn you. We didn't get the result and now everyone has given up and preparing for Division 3 next season.
Funnily enough, very few teams, if any, have their biggest crowds of the season against us. It doesn't take a genius to work out why, as people on here comment quite regularly on why people are turned off from seeing a Millwall match.
That's really sad if it's true. I don't think any of the teams in the bottom four are unable to get out of it. I do think that Birmingham (especially after they beat you) are going to be ok now but if I'm right (and it is a rare occurrence) then there is still one place for the bottom four to fight over. Giving up with ten games to go is tragic, especially when you were still 4th from bottom after we played you.
3 years of gradual painful declince has seemed to take it's toll. Seems many are convinced we're relegated.
SHL, Jackett is a decent guy and a good manager. When he walked away last year, that was a big indication that things were going pear-shaped.
I was hoping for a big London love-in next year in the Championship: CAFC/Spanners/Nigels/Strangers/Bees/Cottagers/Oh's/Hornets - and decent away trips to Reading/Brighton/Brnemth, making almost half the division made up of nearby teams, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen now although there is still a lot of football to be played.
That would of been a cracking 2nd division but if its a choice between us and the brain donors this year, there is no contest (ironic considering our record on the pitch).
Unlike most Charlton fans, I'm not too bothered if our dislike for other teams is reciprocated or not, but to say west ham don't care about Millwall is a bit silly. Time and time again we get voted as their most hated in those rivalry polls, there's numerous footage of them singing anti Millwall songs on YouTube, (we never sing about charlton unless we're playing you) and anyone who saw how they reacted to beating us in the league cup a few years ago, well, of course they care. Personally, I hate palace more than west ham. Only just. There's a hatred for west ham, but a grudging respect too. Palace, I have zero respect for. Smug, stripey plastic ****s! Can't stand em. Anyway, turned into a decent read this thread.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
Did that with my Spanner brother a lot in the late '60s, early '70s. Started at two bob each to get in and a tanner for a programme between us, which was affordable for a couple of kids. How many eleven or twelve year olds could fund their own football tickets now?
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
In my exchange with SLL I think it proves the rivalry thing is actually quite personal for Charlton .I have a mate who follows the Spanners but apart from that now I live in East London there are no other connections. I do understand why they see the Hammers as big rivals and it is due in my opinion to non football reasons. There is no regular fixture like the North London / Manchester or Merseyside derbies. The main association would be the fact that both teams were notorious back in the day.
The reason I saw Millwall as rivals in the 60's,70's,80's and much of the 90's,we were in the same division around 50% of the time .In the 70's I too spent 2 or 3 seasons going to both clubs alternatively until I discovered the fun of away games when I turned 15. The 13 years when we didn't play them lessened the rivalry for me and I even went there a few times with my mate . I even wanted the Spanners to win against United in the 2004 Cup Final . The rivalry only began for me when we played them again.
In an ideal world I would like them to stay up this season because it does make the season more interesting ,but at the moment until we are safe I cheer every defeat in the same way I do for Barnsley,Birmingham,Blackpool Doncaster and Yeovil.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
Did that with my Spanner brother a lot in the late '60s, early '70s. Started at two bob each to get in and a tanner for a programme between us, which was affordable for a couple of kids. How many eleven or twelve year olds could fund their own football tickets now?
Yeah part of me would also like Millwall to stay up because it makes the division more interesting and I have a bit of fun with my Millwall mate BUT they always seem to nick the points!
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
True.
As a youngster back in the late 60s, when Charlton were away I'd quite often be taken to the old Den by my Dad and his Charlton supporting mates - we'd all go hoping to see Millwall lose!
In fact my first never to be forgotten visit was 14 October 1967, Millwall 1 Aston Villa 2 - and at the final whistle, their thugs invaded the pitch, referee Steve Burtenshaw was kicked to the ground and beaten up.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Totally agree with this^
The fact of the matter is that Millwall and Palace fans, generally, don't give a monkeys about us half as much as `we' do about them.
An example from the last time we played Palace - I remember, a couple of days prior to the match, some donut on here exclaimed `ooooo look, they say they don't care about us but read this!' whilst posting a link to a Palace forum. It had half a dozen posts on it....half a f******** dozen....on a forum with hundreds of members (similar to here). I checked a couple of days later, after the match, and it had a further 3 posts....and sunk. They really couldn't give a toss. This is typical of the vast majority of threads involving us on Millwall/Palace forums....
....but look what happens on here. Millwall/Palace `hatred' threads can run for page after page. Yes of course we want to beat them, like they want to beat us....natural local/London rivalry etc....but it's embarrassing how we try to pick verbal `fights' with these clubs supporters.
Palace are actually very similar to us.....in fact maybe thats the problem. It's like looking in the mirror a bit too much and not liking what we see. Personally I think our `Palace problem' is due to shame but there you go.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
I think one of the strangest things about football, is not the rivalries - but the rivalries of the rivalries. "Our rivalry is better than yours!" - what the hell is that about?
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Totally agree with this^
The fact of the matter is that Millwall and Palace fans, generally, don't give a monkeys about us half as much as `we' do about them.
An example from the last time we played Palace - I remember, a couple of days prior to the match, some donut on here exclaimed `ooooo look, they say they don't care about us but read this!' whilst posting a link to a Palace forum. It had half a dozen posts on it....half a f******** dozen....on a forum with hundreds of members (similar to here). I checked a couple of days later, after the match, and it had a further 3 posts....and sunk. They really couldn't give a toss. This is typical of the vast majority of threads involving us on Millwall/Palace forums....
....but look what happens on here. Millwall/Palace `hatred' threads can run for page after page. Yes of course we want to beat them, like they want to beat us....natural local/London rivalry etc....but it's embarrassing how we try to pick verbal `fights' with these clubs supporters.
Palace are actually very similar to us.....in fact maybe thats the problem. It's like looking in the mirror a bit too much and not liking what we see. Personally I think our `Palace problem' is due to shame but there you go.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Agree with you on that, Yes we all want Charlton to be above Millwall and beat them, and for all you younger boys years ago Millwall fans And Charlton fans used to go to each other's grounds to watch the game when there team we're playing away.
My dad just loves watching football, so before the days of Sky sports, and travelling away in numbers to watch your team, when Millwall was away he'd quite often go over to the valley to get a game in. He said loads of Millwall did it, and visa versa.
I do mean millwall , I'd rather your squad than ours , at least you lot have a goal threat in all games, just a chump of a manager who can't organise you defensively
Three points with the goal difference. And you have two games in hand over. And we really are genuinely shit. I'll ever give up total hope. But the bookies have us at about 10 to 1 on, and I'd say that was about right. You never know though.
Some Cafc fans' obsession to have a rival is bordering on sad now. Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
Totally agree with this^
The fact of the matter is that Millwall and Palace fans, generally, don't give a monkeys about us half as much as `we' do about them.
An example from the last time we played Palace - I remember, a couple of days prior to the match, some donut on here exclaimed `ooooo look, they say they don't care about us but read this!' whilst posting a link to a Palace forum. It had half a dozen posts on it....half a f******** dozen....on a forum with hundreds of members (similar to here). I checked a couple of days later, after the match, and it had a further 3 posts....and sunk. They really couldn't give a toss. This is typical of the vast majority of threads involving us on Millwall/Palace forums....
....but look what happens on here. Millwall/Palace `hatred' threads can run for page after page. Yes of course we want to beat them, like they want to beat us....natural local/London rivalry etc....but it's embarrassing how we try to pick verbal `fights' with these clubs supporters.
Palace are actually very similar to us.....in fact maybe thats the problem. It's like looking in the mirror a bit too much and not liking what we see. Personally I think our `Palace problem' is due to shame but there you go.
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Finally....A Millwall fan who admits we're rivals
MillwallFan said:
I've never said we wasn't rivals. You can't have grounds just over 3 miles apart and not be rivals. It's just seen as a particularly special rivalry by most of our fans. And you lot certainly have a lot more hatred for us than we do for you. Miles more.
Wonder why that is.............nope really can't fathom it out :-0
I understand the fierceness of some peoples emotions.
I also understand that being created north of the River ,Millwall still has a following in the old East End. Indeed Bob Crow was an example of this. Crow was an Eastender whose family followed the club from its origins on the Isle of Dogs.
I am still waiting for the football related reason. I know its not 'all' about football, but I am struggling to discover what part of it is.
Surely that's what football clubs represent? The community that follows it. Without it's followers, football clubs cease to exist.
Whilst there are very few similarities between the clubs on the pitch, the community that follows each club share many things.
There isn't much of a footballing rivalry between us either. It's the most one sided derby in English football. It's not like we've spent years competing with each other for premier league success, or fighting to sign the same players or battling each other to the final day for South London supremacy. We've generally lagged behind both yourselves & Palace with regards to on the pitch success.
But there's still a rivalry. & that's because of where we're from, who we know, what Charlton / Palace fans feel they represent and what you think we represent. You hate us not due to football reasons, but because you view us an ignorant, violent, animals. You dislike Millwall due to us, the fans, not for what our players are doing on the pitch.
Most rivalries are driven by the fans & communities, not by football.
Only very few are primarily driven by football. The rivalry grew massively between Arsenal & United when both were fighting eachother on the pitch.
I was hoping for a big London love-in next year in the Championship:
CAFC/Spanners/Nigels/Strangers/Bees/Cottagers/Oh's/Hornets - and decent away trips to Reading/Brighton/Brnemth, making almost half the division made up of nearby teams, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen now although there is still a lot of football to be played.
As you're writing on our forum.
Very few fans of any other club view us a rivals. We're nice and fairly successful. Who gives a fk if we don't have a 'rival'. Grow up it's dull.
In my exchange with SLL I think it proves the rivalry thing is actually quite personal for Charlton .I have a mate who follows the Spanners but apart from that now I live in East London there are no other connections. I do understand why they see the Hammers as big rivals and it is due in my opinion to non football reasons. There is no regular fixture like the North London / Manchester or Merseyside derbies. The main association would be the fact that both teams were notorious back in the day.
The reason I saw Millwall as rivals in the 60's,70's,80's and much of the 90's,we were in the same division around 50% of the time .In the 70's I too spent 2 or 3 seasons going to both clubs alternatively until I discovered the fun of away games when I turned 15.
The 13 years when we didn't play them lessened the rivalry for me and I even went there a few times with my mate . I even wanted the Spanners to win against United in the 2004 Cup Final . The rivalry only began for me when we played them again.
In an ideal world I would like them to stay up this season because it does make the season more interesting ,but at the moment until we are safe I cheer every defeat in the same way I do for Barnsley,Birmingham,Blackpool Doncaster and Yeovil.
You paid to get in?!
The only reason I would not want them to fold altogether is it will hopefully result in the scumbags not moving their support to another club.
I hope they drop out of this league and out of division 1 to div 2. Will not be missed at all by most in football.
As a youngster back in the late 60s, when Charlton were away I'd quite often be taken to the old Den by my Dad and his Charlton supporting mates - we'd all go hoping to see Millwall lose!
In fact my first never to be forgotten visit was 14 October 1967, Millwall 1 Aston Villa 2 - and at the final whistle, their thugs invaded the pitch, referee Steve Burtenshaw was kicked to the ground and beaten up.
Unbelievable scene.
The fact of the matter is that Millwall and Palace fans, generally, don't give a monkeys about us half as much as `we' do about them.
An example from the last time we played Palace - I remember, a couple of days prior to the match, some donut on here exclaimed `ooooo look, they say they don't care about us but read this!' whilst posting a link to a Palace forum. It had half a dozen posts on it....half a f******** dozen....on a forum with hundreds of members (similar to here). I checked a couple of days later, after the match, and it had a further 3 posts....and sunk. They really couldn't give a toss. This is typical of the vast majority of threads involving us on Millwall/Palace forums....
....but look what happens on here. Millwall/Palace `hatred' threads can run for page after page. Yes of course we want to beat them, like they want to beat us....natural local/London rivalry etc....but it's embarrassing how we try to pick verbal `fights' with these clubs supporters.
Palace are actually very similar to us.....in fact maybe thats the problem. It's like looking in the mirror a bit too much and not liking what we see. Personally I think our `Palace problem' is due to shame but there you go.
Sense at last on the subject.