I believe the Government recently relieved the head-teachers of the right to use their common sense on this issue, and moved the decision making higher up the food chain.
Surely, it's a question of communication, ensuring your kids don't miss out (on their education) and not taking the piss.
Fines probably wouldn't be required if the holiday places didn't quadruple (I'm thinking about Center Parcs in particular here) their prices during the school holidays.
I think, as with many things these days, that a handful of people behave irresponsibly and a law gets brought in that ends up punishing everyone else and removing any scope for common sense.
From a School perspective: Know your pupils and their domestic circumstances. Assess on an individual basis rather than 'one size fits all.'
From a Parental perspective: Realise the value of education and only take children on holiday during term time either as an absolute last resort if the harmony and quality of family life absolutely warrants it or if the holiday offers genuine educational opportunities in its own right.
Principle of Fining People: Disagree with it. Only the courts should have that right and sometimes not even then!
AKFA, my wife is a Primary School Teacher. Her view along with other teachers is that even one week out throws things out of sync. One of the reasons is that the students/children can absorb so much in a short space of time. Equally, if schools fail to meet targets the Govt. comes down on them like a ton of bricks. It is just a shame that holidays in peak times are priced up to the max.
Fines probably wouldn't be required if the holiday places didn't quadruple (I'm thinking about Center Parcs in particular here) their prices during the school holidays.
That's the central part of the problem but what can you really do about them over-charging?
I get the feeling this could turn quite nasty as a lot of people pre-book their holidays well in advance and won't change them if the school turns down their request for absence.
I think schools can often pick on parents who are not so good at putting together a coherent letter (or sometimes clever bullshit) explaining any benefits for holidays for the kids. for instance whenever I've had to take my son out of school Ive explained well all the benefits for him, be it emotional or cultural and its got permission from the school.
I guess the important thing is actually putting in an absence request and sticking by the answer the school gives
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
Waiting to hear back from the school about the three days we need for our half term holiday. Will post back the response as and when we receive it. Understand the importance of school, in fact my kids get annoyed with me constantly telling them about it but it's important to spend time as a family also.
Fines probably wouldn't be required if the holiday places didn't quadruple (I'm thinking about Center Parcs in particular here) their prices during the school holidays.
That's the central part of the problem but what can you really do about them over-charging?
I get the feeling this could turn quite nasty as a lot of people pre-book their holidays well in advance and won't change them if the school turns down their request for absence.
Agreed - what can be done in a free market economy? If people pay it, they will carry on charging it. Talking about pre-booking, my daughter went on holiday with her mother in the summer holidays at the end of August, but the secondary school that she got into started it's new term in late August! There was no fine though - that would have been harsh.
I believe the Government recently relieved the head-teachers of the right to use their common sense on this issue, and moved the decision making higher up the food chain.
Surely, it's a question of communication, ensuring your kids don't miss out and not taking the piss.
Exactly, m_a_m .
I can't see ANY problems with taking children away in term time whilst they are in the Infants( apprx 4/5 to 7) and indeed in the Juniors ( 7-11) as long as it's no more than 2 weeks and the holiday does not coincide with any important test periods ( eg SATS) Ideally, said absences should be towards the end of the summer term when everything is winding down although, as with Christmas, it's important that the kids don't miss out on the last couple of days when plays, concerts etc are often staged.
Just my opinion, but we took our 2 away several times over their school years although not after they started senior school. Dialogue with their teachers ensured that reading matter was issued and a diary of each day's events was written. Travel broadens the mind, as they say , even if it's a 2 week trip to the sun. Experiences are what enriches lives & makes us rounded people whether it be visiting a wildlife park, a dormant volcano( Tenerife for example) or merely shopping in the local market where a few words of the language can be practised. In the UK too, the opportunities for learning are immense...
And finally, do the teachers have to pay the families they let down when strike action is taken ? This is often at very short notice and the impact on parents, especially those working should not be underestimated....
Work it the other way round. Would you be happy if teachers took holiday in term time?
One teacher can be teaching up to 120 kids in a day so 120 kids will have their day affected. If one kid is absent it doesn't really affect any of the classes.
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Exactly right AFKA . Proper family time is a must , weekends are usually busy with kids parties , clubs etc and when you get home from work it's usually bath and bed . Holidays are where you will spend decent time with your kids , if that means taking them out of school for a day or a week because it's that much cheaper then so be it .
Fines probably wouldn't be required if the holiday places didn't quadruple (I'm thinking about Center Parcs in particular here) their prices during the school holidays.
Sadly, and I know this will irritate many, it really is a question of supply and demand basics - the demand curve shifts significantly in school holidays and so, therefore, does price.
Notwithstanding this, if most holiday companies and the like were to keep their prices more 'reasonable' during school holidays they'd probably make a loss over the year. Factoring in the prices that can be achieved at peak times is key to holiday firms achieving acceptable profits (not extortionate profits).
I think there is some scope for schools allowing kids to be absent from school during term time but only if it is in a period that doesn't severely impact education e.g. if they're prepared to miss participating in Sports Day, House football/cricket, school play etc. etc.
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
I agree with this and find it apalling that holiday companies maximise the opportunity to rip people off.
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
How is a break from work a luxury? In today's workplace you are encouraged, in fact made to take your full quota of holiday. The whole point of work-life balance is treated very seriously.
A holiday in my view is almost a necessity. Many people find a holiday a great way to break up the work year, to provide something to look forward to, provides an opportunity for relaxation and quality time with friends, partners and family.
Good quality family time should be encouraged, not seen as a luxury. For holiday resorts inthe UK & abroad to raise their prices to such an extent and price out the worse off in society is disgusting. So the rich can continue to holiday and spend family time, but the working class have to work longer hours, reducing good quality family life, in order to even dream of saving for a family holiday, be that in Bognor or Barcelona.
Taking a week off school, if you've pre-arranged to take away work and arranged to catch up after should not be an issue at all!
we questioned it when it was said to me by the head of my boys school, I told him I have no problem with a fine as long as I can get him to sign my contract that says that I can impose a fine when his teachers strike, seemed to do the trick, authorised absence approved
Work it the other way round. Would you be happy if teachers took holiday in term time?
One teacher can be teaching up to 120 kids in a day so 120 kids will have their day affected. If one kid is absent it doesn't really affect any of the classes.
And if that same kid then comes back to the teacher later in the school year and asks for help / resources on something they missed because they were on holiday? Then it does effect the teacher and the time he / she can then devote to other kids and classes.
wrong .. schools should be discretionary places for learning not prisons requiring parole for periods of absence and to keep the 'kids' off the streets while mum & dad are out at work greasing the wheels of industry and commerce ..
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Fair enough AKFA. Nevertheless, parents do not take their kids away at the same time. It can be a nightmarish balancing act with classes of 25 plus. Maybe the answer could be that the parents cooperate with the teacher bringing there child back up to speed;however, many are unable or unwilling to do that. Mr. Gove is applying a lot of pressure at the moment and can I just say he is being very hard to please and thats being diplomatic!
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Fair enough AKFA. Nevertheless, parents do not take their kids away at the same time. It can be a nightmarish balancing act with classes of 25 plus. Maybe the answer could be that the parents cooperate with the teacher bringing there child back up to speed;however, many are unable or unwilling to do that. Mr. Gove is applying a lot of pressure at the moment and can I just say he is being very hard to please and thats being diplomatic!
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
How is a break from work a luxury? In today's workplace you are encouraged, in fact made to take your full quota of holiday. The whole point of work-life balance is treated very seriously.
A holiday in my view is almost a necessity. Many people find a holiday a great way to break up the work year, to provide something to look forward to, provides an opportunity for relaxation and quality time with friends, partners and family.
He didn't say a break from work is a luxury. he said a holiday is a luxury. 2 different things.
Quality time can be at home or in museums in london during the holidays, and doesn't have to be on a plane.
Only went on 2 overseas holidays when I was young, 1 before I started school and 1 in the easter holidays. never missed a days school and don't agree that people should. I think it is unfortunate that holidays are overpriced during school holidays, but if you can't afford a holiday overseas then you don't go.
In the summer holidays we used to go to our grandparents caravan in Uckfield for long weekends. or head down there in term time on friday nights, or not go on holiday and just have day trips in the uk. zoos, farms, seaside, museums etc.
Why do you have to go abroad during term time for it to be quality time together?
I've not got kids so this part more a thought rather than an opinion...
As you say if you get taken out of school for a week you should be able to catch up, well then if when the child returns to school and their grades stay the same it proves the Holiday hasnt had any effect so no need to enforce a fine... If though when the child returns their grades slip for a while before rising again then maybe introduce it.
Trouble is though you never used to get fines for taking kids out of school (in Year 9 I was away about 3 or 4 times for various long Weekends) and it never hindered my studies that year... Add that to the fact that Technology has improved so much since then (Year 9 for me was 1998) it'll make catching up so much easier because there are more tools available.
There should maybe also be a law passed that says Companies cant hike up their prices so much (maybe a little for their profits so not to take the piss) just because its the School Holidays / the Olympics in that City or the World Cup is on...
Especially with the school holidays thats almost a form of discrimination (although I hate that word) against those with kids (i.e. sorry if you want a normal costing holiday each year thats fine... But you cant have children!!!)
Comments
Surely, it's a question of communication, ensuring your kids don't miss out (on their education) and not taking the piss.
From a Parental perspective: Realise the value of education and only take children on holiday during term time either as an absolute last resort if the harmony and quality of family life absolutely warrants it or if the holiday offers genuine educational opportunities in its own right.
Principle of Fining People: Disagree with it. Only the courts should have that right and sometimes not even then!
One of the reasons is that the students/children can absorb so much in a short space of time.
Equally, if schools fail to meet targets the Govt. comes down on them like a ton of bricks.
It is just a shame that holidays in peak times are priced up to the max.
I get the feeling this could turn quite nasty as a lot of people pre-book their holidays well in advance and won't change them if the school turns down their request for absence.
I guess the important thing is actually putting in an absence request and sticking by the answer the school gives
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
I can't see ANY problems with taking children away in term time whilst they are in the Infants( apprx 4/5 to 7) and indeed in the Juniors ( 7-11) as long as it's no more than 2 weeks and the holiday does not coincide with any important test periods ( eg SATS) Ideally, said absences should be towards the end of the summer term when everything is winding down although, as with Christmas, it's important that the kids don't miss out on the last couple of days when plays, concerts etc are often staged.
Just my opinion, but we took our 2 away several times over their school years although not after they started senior school. Dialogue with their teachers ensured that reading matter was issued and a diary of each day's events was written. Travel broadens the mind, as they say , even if it's a 2 week trip to the sun. Experiences are what enriches lives & makes us rounded people whether it be visiting a wildlife park, a dormant volcano( Tenerife for example) or merely shopping in the local market where a few words of the language can be practised. In the UK too, the opportunities for learning are immense...
And finally, do the teachers have to pay the families they let down when strike action is taken ? This is often at very short notice and the impact on parents, especially those working should not be underestimated....
Notwithstanding this, if most holiday companies and the like were to keep their prices more 'reasonable' during school holidays they'd probably make a loss over the year. Factoring in the prices that can be achieved at peak times is key to holiday firms achieving acceptable profits (not extortionate profits).
I think there is some scope for schools allowing kids to be absent from school during term time but only if it is in a period that doesn't severely impact education e.g. if they're prepared to miss participating in Sports Day, House football/cricket, school play etc. etc.
Had one family holiday to Mallorca at aged 16 and the rest were at Butlins in Bognor Regis or camping in Sussex!
A holiday in my view is almost a necessity. Many people find a holiday a great way to break up the work year, to provide something to look forward to, provides an opportunity for relaxation and quality time with friends, partners and family.
Good quality family time should be encouraged, not seen as a luxury. For holiday resorts inthe UK & abroad to raise their prices to such an extent and price out the worse off in society is disgusting. So the rich can continue to holiday and spend family time, but the working class have to work longer hours, reducing good quality family life, in order to even dream of saving for a family holiday, be that in Bognor or Barcelona.
Taking a week off school, if you've pre-arranged to take away work and arranged to catch up after should not be an issue at all!
( BTW Is this a first from me ?)
:-)
Maybe the answer could be that the parents cooperate with the teacher bringing there child back up to speed;however, many are unable or unwilling to do that.
Mr. Gove is applying a lot of pressure at the moment and can I just say he is being very hard to please and thats being diplomatic!
Can see both sides but my wife's a head at an infant school and she's dead against it, mainly for the same reasons that pettgra mentions.
Another problem is that once you've given one family permission you set a precedent and run the risk of a flood of requests.
Quality time can be at home or in museums in london during the holidays, and doesn't have to be on a plane.
Only went on 2 overseas holidays when I was young, 1 before I started school and 1 in the easter holidays. never missed a days school and don't agree that people should. I think it is unfortunate that holidays are overpriced during school holidays, but if you can't afford a holiday overseas then you don't go.
In the summer holidays we used to go to our grandparents caravan in Uckfield for long weekends. or head down there in term time on friday nights, or not go on holiday and just have day trips in the uk. zoos, farms, seaside, museums etc.
Why do you have to go abroad during term time for it to be quality time together?
As you say if you get taken out of school for a week you should be able to catch up, well then if when the child returns to school and their grades stay the same it proves the Holiday hasnt had any effect so no need to enforce a fine... If though when the child returns their grades slip for a while before rising again then maybe introduce it.
Trouble is though you never used to get fines for taking kids out of school (in Year 9 I was away about 3 or 4 times for various long Weekends) and it never hindered my studies that year... Add that to the fact that Technology has improved so much since then (Year 9 for me was 1998) it'll make catching up so much easier because there are more tools available.
There should maybe also be a law passed that says Companies cant hike up their prices so much (maybe a little for their profits so not to take the piss) just because its the School Holidays / the Olympics in that City or the World Cup is on...
Especially with the school holidays thats almost a form of discrimination (although I hate that word) against those with kids (i.e. sorry if you want a normal costing holiday each year thats fine... But you cant have children!!!)