Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Smudge, I don't usually ask you for much but please do me one favour. Whenever you bump into me and the missus, don't say that!
Missing a week of school does no harm. Can easily catch up.
What next - fining the parent if the kid has more than 5 days off in a school year with a cold?
You could also say the holiday companies reduce the price of the holiday during term time rather than they increase the price during school holidays.
No different to moaning that your train season ticket costs more because you travel before 9:30 than if you had got an off peak season ticket for a much cheaper price.
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
How is a break from work a luxury?
Where did I say that time off work is a luxury? We're talking about taking kids out of school during term. Hardly the same thing.
The argument about taking time out of school to spend quality time with your children is often a red herring. If a person wants to spend quality time with their children they can usually do this school holidays just the same as they can do it during school time.
Instead of taking children out of school, people often could go on holiday during the school holidays but choose a less expensive holiday (e.g. Spain instead of Australia, or camping in Devon rather than Spain).
Your child can probably catch up with what they have missed but the teacher will have to devote extra time to your child during the catch up period, at the expense of the other children.
People can say time out of school is educational but this often simply an excuse and not true.
A fairer system may be to work out how many one - to - one catch up hours with a teacher a child needs per week of school missed. Based on this, the parent would be billed a fair amount based on a teachers salary & could calculate whether it was worth taking the child out of school, the teacher would receive a payment for this extra catch up time and the other children in the class would not be inconvenienced.
I have to take the kids out school every year, my busiest time at work is during the summer holidays, so I can't take time off, all my holidays as a kid were taken during term time. When I have asked I wrote a letter explaining the situation, I pointed out me taking a holiday during the school summer holiday would be the equivalent of them taken a holiday the first week back at school basically a no no. My sons school who I do business with agreed the holiday my girls school didn't.We didn't get a fine though.We tend to book a holiday so they only miss 4 days with the rest of the time in half term.However I think this is going to get harder.
Just for a bit of research, tapped onto Thomson's website and picked one of their standard Spain family hotels for a 2 week break for 2 adults and 2 three-year olds. Same break, same flights, one in school holiday, one in term time
Sat 14th June - Total cost £2993 HB, £3721 AI Sat 9th Aug - Total cost £5063 HB, £5791 AI
That's not some exotic 5* location in the Maldives, just a bog standard family Protur hotel in Spain. Aside from the disgusting prices, you can see why people do it because they simply can't afford the equivalent term time breaks.
Of course you've the option of no holiday or doing something cheaper in this country, but there are a multiple of reasons why families benefit from these type of holidays at some stage.
I wonder how long it will take for someone who has been fined to appeal on the grounds that "It's my human right to go where I like, when I like, and take my family with me"??
I wonder how long it will take for someone who has been fined to appeal on the grounds that "It's my human right to go where I like, when I like, and take my family with me"??
Also a child's right to an education, which the parent is blocking by taking them out of school....you could argue.
The argument about taking time out of school to spend quality time with your children is often a red herring. If a person wants to spend quality time with their children they can usually do this school holidays just the same as they can do it during school time.
Instead of taking children out of school, people often could go on holiday during the school holidays but choose a less expensive holiday (e.g. Spain instead of Australia, or camping in Devon rather than Spain).
Your child can probably catch up with what they have missed but the teacher will have to devote extra time to your child during the catch up period, at the expense of the other children.
People can say time out of school is educational but this often simply an excuse and not true.
A fairer system may be to work out how many one - to - one catch up hours with a teacher a child needs per week of school missed. Based on this, the parent would be billed a fair amount based on a teachers salary & could calculate whether it was worth taking the child out of school, the teacher would receive a payment for this extra catch up time and the other children in the class would not be inconvenienced.
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Fair enough AKFA. Nevertheless, parents do not take their kids away at the same time. It can be a nightmarish balancing act with classes of 25 plus. Maybe the answer could be that the parents cooperate with the teacher bringing there child back up to speed;however, many are unable or unwilling to do that. Mr. Gove is applying a lot of pressure at the moment and can I just say he is being very hard to please and thats being diplomatic!
I think many people are forgetting that a holiday is a luxury, not a necessity. I had a grand total of 1 overseas holiday when I was in school as we simply couldn't afford it. The rest of the time we went camping in the UK or just didn't go at all.
I agree that the prices charged for trips in school holidays are outrageous but I'm not sure how this can be regulated. Any attempt to prevent increases in holiday prices during the school holidays will simply result in increases in holidya prices across the board.
How is a break from work a luxury? In today's workplace you are encouraged, in fact made to take your full quota of holiday. The whole point of work-life balance is treated very seriously.
A holiday in my view is almost a necessity. Many people find a holiday a great way to break up the work year, to provide something to look forward to, provides an opportunity for relaxation and quality time with friends, partners and family.
He didn't say a break from work is a luxury. he said a holiday is a luxury. 2 different things.
Quality time can be at home or in museums in london during the holidays, and doesn't have to be on a plane.
Only went on 2 overseas holidays when I was young, 1 before I started school and 1 in the easter holidays. never missed a days school and don't agree that people should. I think it is unfortunate that holidays are overpriced during school holidays, but if you can't afford a holiday overseas then you don't go.
In the summer holidays we used to go to our grandparents caravan in Uckfield for long weekends. or head down there in term time on friday nights, or not go on holiday and just have day trips in the uk. zoos, farms, seaside, museums etc.
Why do you have to go abroad during term time for it to be quality time together?
I said Bognor or Barcelona. Many people can't afford a holiday in the UK either. I was in a similar position as a kid. The UK holidays on a budget were grim. The holidays we managed abroad, where we were all relaxed and away were far better.
Taking your child out of school should be done correctly, ie, with written notice, to collect work from the teachers beforehand and to catch up afterwards. As a family you should ensure your child catches up and play an active part in that.
I don't advocate just missing weeks and not catching up. I've been on both sides of the fence and when I missed time of school it didn't affect me in the slightest.
Well said Suzisausage. Our family had many summer holidays camping abroad at reasonable rates. If you allow one family authorised leave for a week there would be a queue outside the Head's door non stop. How would the class teacher cope with that situation .
I wonder if it would make much difference if the school holidays could be staggered more across the country. Probably not for teh summe holidays but I think it would for the half terms.
I have not read any other comment on this thread, but here's my opinion.
When I was under 11 my parents took me abroad a few times during term time. The school considered this as beneficial to my education, why should this have changed? Once you are into the cycle of exams, perhaps it's a bit different, but under 11 and as long as it is only once a year where is the harm?
On the other hand, the premium cost of holidays outside term time has been the same since I was that young lad in the seventies so nobody makes the decision to have kids without knowing that it is an issue - a quick check on t'internet shows this being debated back in 2004.
Being the cynic I am I can't help thinking it's just a money making exercise at the end of the day though.
Just for a bit of research, tapped onto Thomson's website and picked one of their standard Spain family hotels for a 2 week break for 2 adults and 2 three-year olds. Same break, same flights, one in school holiday, one in term time
Sat 14th June - Total cost £2993 HB, £3721 AI Sat 9th Aug - Total cost £5063 HB, £5791 AI
That's not some exotic 5* location in the Maldives, just a bog standard family Protur hotel in Spain. Aside from the disgusting prices, you can see why people do it because they simply can't afford the equivalent term time breaks.
Of course you've the option of no holiday or doing something cheaper in this country, but there are a multiple of reasons why families benefit from these type of holidays at some stage.
Something's got to give.
And therein lies the real problem. We are pretty much forced to take holidays in 'holiday' time as Mrs Cat works at a school (support staff) and it is pretty much impossible to take anything other than a single emergency day off during term time and then it will be unpaid so I have to stump up prices that are hiked to levels that amount to profiteering. I find it difficult to believe that variable costs (jet fuel, food etc) suddenly increase by 60% and then drop six weeks later but that seems to be the case......
I think, as with many things these days, that a handful of people behave irresponsibly and a law gets brought in that ends up punishing everyone else and removing any scope for common sense.
For me this hits the nail on the head.
It’s hard to argue that a few days off school does much harm and hence, in certain circumstances, there is nothing wrong with kids taking a holiday during term time. However, if this behaviour ends up being routine, rather than exceptional, it quickly becomes unmanageable.
Imagine that in order to get cheap holidays everybody decided to take their kids out of school during term time, either at the same time (so that there was nobody there at all) or at different times (so that there was always a part of each class missing). How would that work?
Once holidays during term time becomes accepted practice (it never was when I was at school or when my own children were) the schools are in an impossible position. How do they judge who to approve? Once a precedent gets established, and people take advantage of it, it can be a very slippery slope.
Unfortunately, common sense can no longer be relied up once people stop using their common sense to do the right thing.
Well said Suzisausage. Our family had many summer holidays camping abroad at reasonable rates. If you allow one family authorised leave for a week there would be a queue outside the Head's door non stop. How would the class teacher cope with that situation .
Clearly there wouldn't be, as not every parent would agree with taking their kids out of school, people like yourself & Suzi would wait until the summer.
Perhaps there are also other kids who are struggling at school that also can't take a week or two off. There should be common sense applied and not just a blanket ban.
If they linked it to good behaviour and hard work in lessons - it would give pupils a good lesson in life - that hard work can bring its rewards. If a kid is working hard and doing well, missing a week of school won't affect them and for the reason stated, it could actually benefit them. I do agree that going abroad with your family provides an education in itself - and it isn't just the cost savings - it can be hard for some parents to get the time off when they need it - especially if both work.
I wonder how long it will take for someone who has been fined to appeal on the grounds that "It's my human right to go where I like, when I like, and take my family with me"??
Also a child's right to an education, which the parent is blocking by taking them out of school....you could argue.
what about kids who are home schooled. who do they get permission from? will they be fined?
Pay for your child's education yourself and take them out as often as you like. Expect other people to contribute to the cost and lose that right. Part of the problem with society today is that kids believe everything is available to them all the time as soon as they want it. Taking them out of school reinforces this. Sorry if this messes with parents rights to have a social life at a reduced cost - but life isn't fair.
when the school stops adding an inset day (baker days for some of you) at the start of a new term, when the teachers have just had 6 weeks off then I wont take them away during school time.
when the school stops adding an inset day (baker days for some of you) at the start of a new term, when the teachers have just had 6 weeks off then I wont take them away during school time.
Oh yes good point. I had forgotten that two wrongs make a right. Another valuable lesson to teach our young people.
you should listen to you lot - you wanted kids so deal with it ;-)
In all seriousness if you work for a small company or in a small department and most of your colleagues have kids it's impossible for you all to be off work at the same time, or during the summer weeks, so surely something has to give somewhere especially if you figure in all the partners involved and their work situation as well.
Schools should be flexible and take all circumstances into account when deciding. For example, we are going away with Golfie and our holiday starts five days before term ends meaning his kids (all under ten) will miss the last three days of the summer term. what harm will it do them missing the last three days of the school year? all we used to do then in my day was play board games etc. If the school says no then they will have to follow us down to Cornwall three days later.
Funny too that schools don't ask parents for permission when they slot in baker days, ok for kids to miss school then ain't it.
Well said Suzisausage. Our family had many summer holidays camping abroad at reasonable rates. If you allow one family authorised leave for a week there would be a queue outside the Head's door non stop. How would the class teacher cope with that situation .
Clearly there wouldn't be, as not every parent would agree with taking their kids out of school, people like yourself & Suzi would wait until the summer.
Perhaps there are also other kids who are struggling at school that also can't take a week or two off. There should be common sense applied and not just a blanket ban.
I don't think you realise what a slippery slope this is.
You turn up at school to ask permission to take your child on holiday during term time so you can save £2,000 (see above). Your child's friend's parents have just been given approval, but you are refused because your kid is "struggling" (your term). Not good. Terrible for the child and an appalling dilemma for the teacher who had to make the choice, knowing you'll want to contest the decision.
Or try this. Your kid arrives back at school after summer holidays to find that they are in a "lower stream" than their friends. You ring the school to ask why and they explain that only kids with parents who don't agree with taking them out of school are in the 'A' stream because they don't want the teaching of those committed students disrupted. How would you react?
Just for a bit of research, tapped onto Thomson's website and picked one of their standard Spain family hotels for a 2 week break for 2 adults and 2 three-year olds. Same break, same flights, one in school holiday, one in term time
Sat 14th June - Total cost £2993 HB, £3721 AI Sat 9th Aug - Total cost £5063 HB, £5791 AI
That's not some exotic 5* location in the Maldives, just a bog standard family Protur hotel in Spain. Aside from the disgusting prices, you can see why people do it because they simply can't afford the equivalent term time breaks.
Of course you've the option of no holiday or doing something cheaper in this country, but there are a multiple of reasons why families benefit from these type of holidays at some stage.
Something's got to give.
And therein lies the real problem. We are pretty much forced to take holidays in 'holiday' time as Mrs Cat works at a school (support staff) and it is pretty much impossible to take anything other than a single emergency day off during term time and then it will be unpaid so I have to stump up prices that are hiked to levels that amount to profiteering. I find it difficult to believe that variable costs (jet fuel, food etc) suddenly increase by 60% and then drop six weeks later but that seems to be the case......
The idea of price being dictated by supply and demand is hardly new. Buy yourself a 5 foot tall Norweigen fir tree in May and see how much it costs vs the one you bought in December or tickets for popular events vs crap ones etc etc
Comments
Can easily catch up.
What next - fining the parent if the kid has more than 5 days off in a school year with a cold?
You could also say the holiday companies reduce the price of the holiday during term time rather than they increase the price during school holidays.
No different to moaning that your train season ticket costs more because you travel before 9:30 than if you had got an off peak season ticket for a much cheaper price.
Instead of taking children out of school, people often could go on holiday during the school holidays but choose a less expensive holiday (e.g. Spain instead of Australia, or camping in Devon rather than Spain).
Your child can probably catch up with what they have missed but the teacher will have to devote extra time to your child during the catch up period, at the expense of the other children.
People can say time out of school is educational but this often simply an excuse and not true.
A fairer system may be to work out how many one - to - one catch up hours with a teacher a child needs per week of school missed. Based on this, the parent would be billed a fair amount based on a teachers salary & could calculate whether it was worth taking the child out of school, the teacher would receive a payment for this extra catch up time and the other children in the class would not be inconvenienced.
Sat 14th June - Total cost £2993 HB, £3721 AI
Sat 9th Aug - Total cost £5063 HB, £5791 AI
That's not some exotic 5* location in the Maldives, just a bog standard family Protur hotel in Spain. Aside from the disgusting prices, you can see why people do it because they simply can't afford the equivalent term time breaks.
Of course you've the option of no holiday or doing something cheaper in this country, but there are a multiple of reasons why families benefit from these type of holidays at some stage.
Something's got to give.
Had I booked it Thursday to Thursday I would have saved £900
If the government are gonna crack down on this then they need to look at the piss take pricing for school holidays
If the FSA or FCA are targeting things like PPI then they also need to look at this
Taking your child out of school should be done correctly, ie, with written notice, to collect work from the teachers beforehand and to catch up afterwards. As a family you should ensure your child catches up and play an active part in that.
I don't advocate just missing weeks and not catching up. I've been on both sides of the fence and when I missed time of school it didn't affect me in the slightest.
Our family had many summer holidays camping abroad at reasonable rates.
If you allow one family authorised leave for a week there would be a queue outside the Head's door non stop.
How would the class teacher cope with that situation .
When I was under 11 my parents took me abroad a few times during term time. The school considered this as beneficial to my education, why should this have changed? Once you are into the cycle of exams, perhaps it's a bit different, but under 11 and as long as it is only once a year where is the harm?
On the other hand, the premium cost of holidays outside term time has been the same since I was that young lad in the seventies so nobody makes the decision to have kids without knowing that it is an issue - a quick check on t'internet shows this being debated back in 2004.
Being the cynic I am I can't help thinking it's just a money making exercise at the end of the day though.
I find it difficult to believe that variable costs (jet fuel, food etc) suddenly increase by 60% and then drop six weeks later but that seems to be the case......
It’s hard to argue that a few days off school does much harm and hence, in certain circumstances, there is nothing wrong with kids taking a holiday during term time. However, if this behaviour ends up being routine, rather than exceptional, it quickly becomes unmanageable.
Imagine that in order to get cheap holidays everybody decided to take their kids out of school during term time, either at the same time (so that there was nobody there at all) or at different times (so that there was always a part of each class missing). How would that work?
Once holidays during term time becomes accepted practice (it never was when I was at school or when my own children were) the schools are in an impossible position. How do they judge who to approve? Once a precedent gets established, and people take advantage of it, it can be a very slippery slope.
Unfortunately, common sense can no longer be relied up once people stop using their common sense to do the right thing.
Perhaps there are also other kids who are struggling at school that also can't take a week or two off. There should be common sense applied and not just a blanket ban.
Part of the problem with society today is that kids believe everything is available to them all the time as soon as they want it. Taking them out of school reinforces this.
Sorry if this messes with parents rights to have a social life at a reduced cost - but life isn't fair.
In all seriousness if you work for a small company or in a small department and most of your colleagues have kids it's impossible for you all to be off work at the same time, or during the summer weeks, so surely something has to give somewhere especially if you figure in all the partners involved and their work situation as well.
Schools should be flexible and take all circumstances into account when deciding. For example, we are going away with Golfie and our holiday starts five days before term ends meaning his kids (all under ten) will miss the last three days of the summer term. what harm will it do them missing the last three days of the school year? all we used to do then in my day was play board games etc. If the school says no then they will have to follow us down to Cornwall three days later.
Funny too that schools don't ask parents for permission when they slot in baker days, ok for kids to miss school then ain't it.
You turn up at school to ask permission to take your child on holiday during term time so you can save £2,000 (see above). Your child's friend's parents have just been given approval, but you are refused because your kid is "struggling" (your term). Not good. Terrible for the child and an appalling dilemma for the teacher who had to make the choice, knowing you'll want to contest the decision.
Or try this. Your kid arrives back at school after summer holidays to find that they are in a "lower stream" than their friends. You ring the school to ask why and they explain that only kids with parents who don't agree with taking them out of school are in the 'A' stream because they don't want the teaching of those committed students disrupted. How would you react?