Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
Wrong. I'm middle management in a Primary School in Surrey and I'm afraid that's not possible
What on earth does a middle manager at a Primary School do?
Yes and Yes. My CPD is my responsibility and unless it's kept up to adte and a return of it made every year I am in danger of losing my accreditations.
I manage work training and preparation for the days tasks during my allocated work hours. Don't need to do it during my leave periods.
Additionally whenever we have training it is one or two of us being trained at any time. Our company does not shut down for the day so we can be trained. Don't know why teachers can't do that.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Just had a quick check of my little' uns' calendar of events for 2013/14, in that time she's going to miss 5 DAYS of school due to teacher training days, this is before we even get to the subject of day strikes etc which will add more.
So what I'd like to know (for the teachers in this thread perhaps) is, possibly people might start turning this around and take action against them! i.e imposing fines on them, my girl has missed a week (confirmed) up to now, and also two strike days, 7 school days in total.
Can of worms.
When do you expect your kids teachers to do training then to keep up-to-date with current practices, changes in curriculum etc then?
In your job, when do you do your training then? Oh yes, thats right, of course you do it after work and at weekends and during your annual leave, dont you? Course not.
(BTW, I'm not a teacher, I just lived with one for nearly 5 years)
Yes actually much of the time as I work for a small organisation.
We do a limited amount of training during working hours but standards of service would undoubtedly suffer if we did it all then.
The onus is therefore on us to a great extent and the requirements of our professional bodies.
Absolutely this. You want to work in IT. There's no chance of training in work time. Most of my training is undertaken in the evenings. I average about 15 hours a week training on my home infrastructure. I don't get paid for that (though obviously it has its benefits as my skills allow me to work at the highest level in my industry and command a good salary). I get time off for exams if they're relevant for my current role - that's about it.
Not complaining, it's part of the job. Just like teachers shouldn't complain either - it's part of their job. A bit rich of them to say that they can only train during hours they should be teaching though - but that's largely because most teachers aren't doing it because they see it as their vocation - they're doing it because they see it as a job.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
If you honestly think they only get monitored for one week a year then slack off the rest of the time you must be living cloud f*cking cuckoo land.
My missus does a 9 hour day minimum, with a 25 minute break if she's lucky. She doesn't take a class anymore but the marking, prep and report writing she used to do took up at least 2 weeks of the summer holiday and a chunk of the the other breaks. This has now been replaced with teacher assessments and other planning.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
If you honestly think they only get monitored for one week a year then slack off the rest of the time you must be living cloud f*cking cuckoo land.
My missus does a 9 hour day minimum, with a 25 minute break if she's lucky. She doesn't take a class anymore but the marking, prep and report writing she used to do took up at least 2 weeks of the summer holiday and a chunk of the the other breaks. This has now been replaced with teacher assessments and other planning.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
Also meant to add that she often works when she gets home and at weekends.
As one lifer said this has been by and large and interesting and intelligent debate; however, there seems to be a little bit of sniping against the teachers creeping in. They are not our enemy, they really care about the kids and the teachers and the kids deserve a decent break. We can always reduce the teachers holidays to two weeks in the summer and one in the winter. That will be interesting when Johnnie says "dad we have to take the last two weeks in August off if you want to go away". Panic! By the way do not tell Gove,as he probably has not thought of that yet. He is probably trying to think of what training is needed for the next inset day as he cannot seem to make his mind up. Teachers are just employees, they do not make the rules.
Sorry if my comments came across as sniping , i do not mean that one bit , on the whole i have been happy with 9 out of 10 teachers , at the 2 schools my kids have been at.
Its just when you hear about potential strikes over pay / conditions it gets my back up especially as having already worked weekends, i had to work additional weekends and bank holidays to cover looking after kids during the Holidays , if the kids were at school for a longer period , then maybe parents wouldn't have to take time off , the country would bring in more money through a productive workforce , more tax receipts would be raised , and additional money fed into teachers pockets.
I have total respect for anyone that puts them self up at the front of a classroom to be fired at in front of 30 odd teenagers , let alone try and teach them something.
As someone married to a teacher and whose (only) sibling is a teacher, I can see first hand many advantages of the profession:
- whilst extremely challenging at times (but what 'professional' job isn't?), it rates pretty highly on the 'potential for job satisfaction' scale given the regular and very tangible impact you can have on a child's life; - the holidays are clearly longer than any other full-time job - teachers do indeed not work a 9-5 during term time, but then again nor do most professionals; - the above holidays by definition coincide with school holidays thus avoiding the childcare headache familiar to any family where both parents work; - the pay is (in my view) reasonable - no-one gets rich from teaching and it is certainly hard to get by in London, but it compares reasonably with other professions requiring similar levels of training, certainly in the public sector; - you can dip in and out of it more easily than most other professions whether having long-term sabbaticals (for example to have children) or returning part-time; - you can work anywhere in the country for virtually the same wage - again this is not true of most people currently living/working in London, and provides useful options if circumstances change; - notwithstanding certain caveats, you also have a globally transferable skill - when we moved to New York, my wife could basically pick and choose a (private) school to work at because British teachers were very much in demand.
However my wife is taking the long-term sabbatical option a little bit too far and is thus firmly a cost centre and not a profit centre for our family presently, but if I leave enough copies of The Times Education Supplement around the house, she may get the hint.
Sorry if my comments came across as sniping , i do not mean that one bit , on the whole i have been happy with 9 out of 10 teachers , at the 2 schools my kids have been at.
Its just when you hear about potential strikes over pay / conditions it gets my back up especially as having already worked weekends, i had to work additional weekends and bank holidays to cover looking after kids during the Holidays , if the kids were at school for a longer period , then maybe parents wouldn't have to take time off , the country would bring in more money through a productive workforce , more tax receipts would be raised , and additional money fed into teachers pockets.
I have total respect for anyone that puts them self up at the front of a classroom to be fired at in front of 30 odd teenagers , let alone try and teach them something.
No you are fine and absolutely no need to apologise. It is an emotive subject. Five wins on the bounce and we will all be chilled!
Coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't have kids, and doesn't want them, why should I be made to pay extra to subsidise people with kids who want someone to intervene and force holiday companies, airlines etc to implement pricing that prevents them increasing/decreasing costs bases on the principles of supply and demand?
Holidays are not a right. It's also a choice to have kids. I already get pissed off enough as it is that I pretty much can't take any time off during half terms or most of the summer holidays because I'm expected to cover work of people who don't even bother to ask me whether I'd like to take time off during those periods - they just assume that I'm ok with the situation.
Not a rant against people with kids - that's your choice. Just don't expect to have your cake and eat it.
When you are old, you may be grateful to our kids for looking after you or paying taxes so you can get a pension!
And I don't wish to be a teacher and can see there are pros and cons to the job. I won't knock them as that is what we do too much in this country - we never aim our fury at the right targets and allow ourselves to be played off against each other.
Took my daughter out of school for two weeks just before Xmas to go to Florida. The school approved it, simply told them it was the only time I could get off work and was working all over Xmas (all bull). If they had refused it I would have taken her out regardless. If they'd fined me I would have told them to stick it up their arse and flatly refused to pay it. I know of two couples who have been fined sent the letter back advising that they were refusing to pay and no further action was taken.
I'm not sure this lying and breaking of the rules for your convenience is a particularly great example to your daughter for later life.
Yeah. As soon as we got back she immediately went out and blagged a post office to fuel her crack habit.
That really doesnt surprise me. You brought it on yourself, you know. ;-) PS You must be so proud of her!
To be frank my nephew is such a disruptive little s##t I am surprised that the teachers and other kids have not had a whip around to send him and his soppy mother away for at least a week each term...
In all seriousness, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that if children are routinely taken out of class then a disproportionate amount of time surely has to be spent on getting that kid back up to speed to the detriment of the rest of the class. Times this by 5, 6, 7, 8 or whatever children all doing it at different times during the term and there simply must be an impact on the whole class, however minimal or not.
The fact that I can still remember the one girl in my junior school class being taken out back in the 1970's for a holiday to Spain (still very exotic back then don't ya know) speaks volumes as to where we are 40 years later. And the teacher made her stand up in class and tell us all about it when she got back too.
Ok. As always a discussion around a school issue allows some to have a dig at holidays, how long the working day is etc.
I'm a deputy head in a secondary school. Therefore my day is different to others in terms of teaching load. But like some others in here I can give those of you who have no idea what teachers' workload is like a bit of an insight.
I chose the profession because from a young age it is what I wanted to do. I knew the perks and I knew the downsides. I am sure there are such things in every profession. The main perk is obviously the holidays. Please do not get confused though by mistaking the school holidays that pupils get with what the teachers get. I have never met a teacher that does no work in the holidays. Of course this varies person to person.
Drive past school car parks at half 7 in the morning and you will see them already getting full. Drive past at six at night and you will see likewise. This is typical of the school I work in which opens at half six in the morning and had to do so due to the requests of staff.
In terms of holiday time, of the thirteen weeks that school is closed to pupils a year, I probably work for half of them. In a half term holiday I am pretty much in school for three days of that week just so I can clear paperwork, plan, prepare and do whatever else I need to do.
As a manager I am expected to be available to be called in to school. Teachers offer Saturday morning lessons, holiday lessons and will do before and after school catch up lessons. And this is not considered 'overtime' as I assume it is in other industries. I have not had a day off sick for over three years as it puts pressure on colleagues and does the pupils no favours.
During term time I generally work a 65 hour week, inc Sundays. I refuse to work on a Saturday, though it has been known.
It is an extremely stressful job. That's not a request for sympathy. Again, it is the job I choose to do. It is an extremely rewarding job and I don't want to do anything else. But e stress certain jobs cause have to be considered as the workforce will suffer without the opportunity to recharge batteries and have some recovery time.
I get paid fairly well. However, I have a lot of responsibility. I have to oversee budget, HR, achievement and progress, parents, behaviour etc etc etc. I am accountable to hone LA, governors, Headteacher, pupils and parents. How much would I get paid for doing a similar job in the private industry? Probably a lot more and maybe with a company car and fuel allowance thrown in. Perhaps free private healthcare.
Strikes? Not good for anyone but legal. We now work longer, for less money and a smaller pension. We have an education minister that is hellbent on demonising teachers, blaming them for whatever he can, constantly messing with exams and assessments and fuelling the belief amongst some that teachers are lazy, ignorant and under performing.
My personal opinion on pupils taking holidays during term time is that it should be at the discretion of the Head with previous and current attendance figures considered. But let's not be naive enough to think that parents are always honest with where pupils are going and how long for. There are many incidents of parents saying they're off to Spain for a week and in fact they're in the Caribbean for three.
This is not a post that is intended to receive anything other than just some insight into what teachers do and how the job has changed and is changing. I am sure some will read it and see it is some left wing diatribe. Maybe others will recognise it and understand where I am coming from. Ether is fine with me.
Holiday firms claims of supply and demand are a joke. Some holidays go up 3 times in price and that is nothing but blatant profiteering.people wont stop taking their kids out with fines. I fear someone would have to be jailed for people to take any notice. will be interesting to see how this develops.
"Holiday firms claims of supply and demand are a joke."
They are not really - there are just not enough hotel beds etc available for everyone to take their holidays at the same time and it would be totally uneconomic for it to be so. When the supply is fixed and demand increases then prices are bid up until enough people are put off. At the moment holiday companies are not making big profits - in fact quite the opposite as many people are quite sensibly cutting out the middleman and arranging things themselves. We forget the otherside of the story when Holiday companies have to buy room allocations outside the main season often at a loss in order to get the main season allocation of rooms
If we want to keep kids at school - we need to spread the periods when school holidays occur and do something to force/encourage those without kids to take their holidays outside the school holiday periods. We could of course tax those without kids more and give the tax received to those with kids - so as to counter the benefit the former get from cheaper, in effect subsidised holidays, outside the main periods?
"Holiday firms claims of supply and demand are a joke."
They are not really - there are just not enough hotel beds etc available for everyone to take their holidays at the same time and it would be totally uneconomic for it to be so. When the supply is fixed and demand increases then prices are bid up until enough people are put off. At the moment holiday companies are not making big profits - in fact quite the opposite as many people are quite sensibly cutting out the middleman and arranging things themselves. We forget the otherside of the story when Holiday companies have to buy room allocations outside the main season often at a loss in order to get the main season allocation of rooms
If we want to keep kids at school - we need to spread the periods when school holidays occur and do something to force/encourage those without kids to take their holidays outside the school holiday periods. We could of course tax those without kids more and give the tax received to those with kids - so as to counter the benefit the former get from cheaper, in effect subsidised holidays, outside the main periods?
Doesn't that already happen. I mean those without children have to pay the same contribution to schools as those with children.
Maybe we should close all state schools and expect those with children to pay for their own education and then see just how many are keen to 'bunk off' for a cheap holiday then!
Just had a quick check of my little' uns' calendar of events for 2013/14, in that time she's going to miss 5 DAYS of school due to teacher training days, this is before we even get to the subject of day strikes etc which will add more.
So what I'd like to know (for the teachers in this thread perhaps) is, possibly people might start turning this around and take action against them! i.e imposing fines on them, my girl has missed a week (confirmed) up to now, and also two strike days, 7 school days in total.
Can of worms.
When do you expect your kids teachers to do training then to keep up-to-date with current practices, changes in curriculum etc then?
In your job, when do you do your training then? Oh yes, thats right, of course you do it after work and at weekends and during your annual leave, dont you? Course not.
Yes I do. It's called Continuous Professional Development. Mostly evenings, but I do take some leave every now and then to keep up.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
It must be awful having another four days off before/after a Bank Holiday.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
It must be awful having another four days off before/after a Bank Holiday.
As written by others including myself, Addickted, the school holidays that pupils get does not mean teachers are not working either in school or at home.
Thanks for your post SJH - but don't you think most people are in the same boat? I'm contracted for 37 hours a week - I probably average about 50. If you're doing 12 hour days in Education, then either your Head is taking the mick out of you or you need to delegate more. How many of your 65 hours do you actually spend teaching students?
One thing that I always get told from my teaching friends is the preparation and planning time they need. This always confuses me as you all work to a National Carriculum - isn't all that in place for you? Is what you do one year significantly different from what you teach the next year? Isn't the teaching planned out at the start of the year or term? Is there anyway IT can be used to make this simpler?
Thanks for your post SJH - but don't you think most people are in the same boat? I'm contracted for 37 hours a week - I probably average about 50. If you're doing 12 hour days in Education, then either your Head is taking the mick out of you or you need to delegate more. How many of your 65 hours do you actually spend teaching students?
One thing that I always get told from my teaching friends is the preparation and planning time they need. This always confuses me as you all work to a National Carriculum - isn't all that in place for you? Is what you do one year significantly different from what you teach the next year? Isn't the teaching planned out at the start of the year or term? Is there anyway IT can be used to make this simpler?
And what do you actually do on an 'inset day'?
There may be one (very questionable) National Curriculum but there are loads of different students.
When I was a school governor the Head proposed a different timetable (for very valid reasons) which meant all the teachers would have to attend school for an extra 10 mins each day. The teachers kicked up about this (purely because of the extra 10 mins) causing the Head to ultimately drop the proposal which was a shame as it potentially solved other deeper rota difficulties in the school.
This may not be representative of all schools but, as someone who was working 11 hours most days at the time, it didn't leave me with a great impression of teacher's work ethic and flexibility.
Hi Addickted and thanks for your questions. I do not have a real insight to other jobs so try not to make too many assumptions I am sure there are many who do above and beyond. It's just that many people assume teachers do not and see the time that school is open to the pupils as the only time teachers work.
My role in the school means I have a much reduced timetable. I teach English to years nine and ten. I teach eight fifty minute lessons. I reckon I plan about half an hour to an hour for each lesson but it varies. The National Curriculum outlines what you should be covering. However, the lessons teachers plan have to be tailored to their pupils' needs ( in my class I have four with a statement of SEN, four EAL pupils and all the others have low literacy levels.) Therefore I have to provide lessons for a range of pupils and ensure they can all access the work. Marking is regular and in depth.
What is taught for one class is different for the next year and class. Therefore you plan accordingly. What works for one class doesn't necessarily work for another.
My head isn't taking the mick out of me at all. I get in work at half seven and leave at half six. I work evenings and weekends. Again, though is is because of my role. And believe me I delegate on a regular basis.
Inset days give the opportunity for collaboration, professional and personalised training and the opportunity to understand the latest Government tinkering and the impact it has on the school. We do our training in house so if there is a member of staff with a particular skill or expertise they will work with other staff on that. For example I am running training sessions on restraint and de-escalation, dealing with difficult parents and being an effective middle leader.
There is much less freedom in education than people are aware. Most things you do are governed by rules, laws and the need to evidence and justify more or less everything you do. The days, for example, of a PE teacher being allowed to drive round the streets, while smoking a fag and barking instructions at his class doing cross country are long gone.
I think people who think Waterloo Rd is the barometer for what really goes on in schools are at best misinformed and worst bloody stupid.
Perhaps they could fit it in during the 5-6 weeks summer holiday or the 2 weeks at Easter or the 2 weeks at Xmas or during the week break they get for half term?
Once you take out the marking, the lesson preparation, paperwork and writing reports out of that "holiday", how much do you think is actually left? Not as much as a lot of you think.
Perhaps some of the CL teachers can enlighten us to exactly how much real holiday they get...
There always seems to an assumption among the taching profession that they are the only ones who have to do preparation, planning and report writing in their own time. My job is 9 until 5. I rarely leave before 5.30, I never stop for longer than it takes to eat a sandwich, I often have to travel and stay away overnight, and I often have to write reports and complete work at the weekend. I read reports from my staff at home otherwise I'd never have the time to find out what they are up to. That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer. Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive. I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it. Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
It must be awful having another four days off before/after a Bank Holiday.
Yeah, it's great when you go to book a holiday/break and see the prices.
Comments
Additionally whenever we have training it is one or two of us being trained at any time. Our company does not shut down for the day so we can be trained. Don't know why teachers can't do that.
That's life, this is the job I chose, this is what I have to do to get it done. I get 30 days off as thanks for this. That's six weeks, all in, not six weeks just for the summer.
Teachers also complain that for a week they have someone in their classroom monitoring what they do. This freaks them out and sends many in to stress overdrive.
I don't get monitored for a week a year, I get monitored all the time. Ever bit I work I do impacts someone else and if it doesn't get done they, and by implication my boss, will know about it.
Teachers should think themselves lucky that this scrutinty only happens once a year and they can slack off the rest of the time.
Those that can't, teach.
Not complaining, it's part of the job. Just like teachers shouldn't complain either - it's part of their job. A bit rich of them to say that they can only train during hours they should be teaching though - but that's largely because most teachers aren't doing it because they see it as their vocation - they're doing it because they see it as a job.
My missus does a 9 hour day minimum, with a 25 minute break if she's lucky. She doesn't take a class anymore but the marking, prep and report writing she used to do took up at least 2 weeks of the summer holiday and a chunk of the the other breaks. This has now been replaced with teacher assessments and other planning.
Another thing that's rarely mentioned is that pretty much all the annual bank holidays that we get on top of our holiday entitlement are wrapped up in the weeks they have off.
They are not our enemy, they really care about the kids and the teachers and the kids deserve a decent break.
We can always reduce the teachers holidays to two weeks in the summer and one in the winter. That will be interesting when Johnnie says "dad we have to take the last two weeks in August off if you want to go away". Panic!
By the way do not tell Gove,as he probably has not thought of that yet. He is probably trying to think of what training is needed for the next inset day as he cannot seem to make his mind up.
Teachers are just employees, they do not make the rules.
Its just when you hear about potential strikes over pay / conditions it gets my back up especially as having already worked weekends, i had to work additional weekends and bank holidays to cover looking after kids during the Holidays , if the kids were at school for a longer period , then maybe parents wouldn't have to take time off , the country would bring in more money through a productive workforce , more tax receipts would be raised , and additional money fed into teachers pockets.
I have total respect for anyone that puts them self up at the front of a classroom to be fired at in front of 30 odd teenagers , let alone try and teach them something.
- whilst extremely challenging at times (but what 'professional' job isn't?), it rates pretty highly on the 'potential for job satisfaction' scale given the regular and very tangible impact you can have on a child's life;
- the holidays are clearly longer than any other full-time job - teachers do indeed not work a 9-5 during term time, but then again nor do most professionals;
- the above holidays by definition coincide with school holidays thus avoiding the childcare headache familiar to any family where both parents work;
- the pay is (in my view) reasonable - no-one gets rich from teaching and it is certainly hard to get by in London, but it compares reasonably with other professions requiring similar levels of training, certainly in the public sector;
- you can dip in and out of it more easily than most other professions whether having long-term sabbaticals (for example to have children) or returning part-time;
- you can work anywhere in the country for virtually the same wage - again this is not true of most people currently living/working in London, and provides useful options if circumstances change;
- notwithstanding certain caveats, you also have a globally transferable skill - when we moved to New York, my wife could basically pick and choose a (private) school to work at because British teachers were very much in demand.
However my wife is taking the long-term sabbatical option a little bit too far and is thus firmly a cost centre and not a profit centre for our family presently, but if I leave enough copies of The Times Education Supplement around the house, she may get the hint.
Five wins on the bounce and we will all be chilled!
And I don't wish to be a teacher and can see there are pros and cons to the job. I won't knock them as that is what we do too much in this country - we never aim our fury at the right targets and allow ourselves to be played off against each other.
In all seriousness, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that if children are routinely taken out of class then a disproportionate amount of time surely has to be spent on getting that kid back up to speed to the detriment of the rest of the class. Times this by 5, 6, 7, 8 or whatever children all doing it at different times during the term and there simply must be an impact on the whole class, however minimal or not.
The fact that I can still remember the one girl in my junior school class being taken out back in the 1970's for a holiday to Spain (still very exotic back then don't ya know) speaks volumes as to where we are 40 years later. And the teacher made her stand up in class and tell us all about it when she got back too.
I'm a deputy head in a secondary school. Therefore my day is different to others in terms of teaching load. But like some others in here I can give those of you who have no idea what teachers' workload is like a bit of an insight.
I chose the profession because from a young age it is what I wanted to do. I knew the perks and I knew the downsides. I am sure there are such things in every profession. The main perk is obviously the holidays. Please do not get confused though by mistaking the school holidays that pupils get with what the teachers get. I have never met a teacher that does no work in the holidays. Of course this varies person to person.
Drive past school car parks at half 7 in the morning and you will see them already getting full. Drive past at six at night and you will see likewise. This is typical of the school I work in which opens at half six in the morning and had to do so due to the requests of staff.
In terms of holiday time, of the thirteen weeks that school is closed to pupils a year, I probably work for half of them. In a half term holiday I am pretty much in school for three days of that week just so I can clear paperwork, plan, prepare and do whatever else I need to do.
As a manager I am expected to be available to be called in to school. Teachers offer Saturday morning lessons, holiday lessons and will do before and after school catch up lessons. And this is not considered 'overtime' as I assume it is in other industries. I have not had a day off sick for over three years as it puts pressure on colleagues and does the pupils no favours.
During term time I generally work a 65 hour week, inc Sundays. I refuse to work on a Saturday, though it has been known.
It is an extremely stressful job. That's not a request for sympathy. Again, it is the job I choose to do. It is an extremely rewarding job and I don't want to do anything else. But e stress certain jobs cause have to be considered as the workforce will suffer without the opportunity to recharge batteries and have some recovery time.
I get paid fairly well. However, I have a lot of responsibility. I have to oversee budget, HR, achievement and progress, parents, behaviour etc etc etc. I am accountable to hone LA, governors, Headteacher, pupils and parents. How much would I get paid for doing a similar job in the private industry? Probably a lot more and maybe with a company car and fuel allowance thrown in. Perhaps free private healthcare.
Strikes? Not good for anyone but legal. We now work longer, for less money and a smaller pension. We have an education minister that is hellbent on demonising teachers, blaming them for whatever he can, constantly messing with exams and assessments and fuelling the belief amongst some that teachers are lazy, ignorant and under performing.
My personal opinion on pupils taking holidays during term time is that it should be at the discretion of the Head with previous and current attendance figures considered. But let's not be naive enough to think that parents are always honest with where pupils are going and how long for. There are many incidents of parents saying they're off to Spain for a week and in fact they're in the Caribbean for three.
This is not a post that is intended to receive anything other than just some insight into what teachers do and how the job has changed and is changing. I am sure some will read it and see it is some left wing diatribe. Maybe others will recognise it and understand where I am coming from. Ether is fine with me.
They are not really - there are just not enough hotel beds etc available for everyone to take their holidays at the same time and it would be totally uneconomic for it to be so. When the supply is fixed and demand increases then prices are bid up until enough people are put off. At the moment holiday companies are not making big profits - in fact quite the opposite as many people are quite sensibly cutting out the middleman and arranging things themselves. We forget the otherside of the story when Holiday companies have to buy room allocations outside the main season often at a loss in order to get the main season allocation of rooms
If we want to keep kids at school - we need to spread the periods when school holidays occur and do something to force/encourage those without kids to take their holidays outside the school holiday periods. We could of course tax those without kids more and give the tax received to those with kids - so as to counter the benefit the former get from cheaper, in effect subsidised holidays, outside the main periods?
Maybe we should close all state schools and expect those with children to pay for their own education and then see just how many are keen to 'bunk off' for a cheap holiday then!
I'm contracted for 37 hours a week - I probably average about 50. If you're doing 12 hour days in Education, then either your Head is taking the mick out of you or you need to delegate more. How many of your 65 hours do you actually spend teaching students?
One thing that I always get told from my teaching friends is the preparation and planning time they need. This always confuses me as you all work to a National Carriculum - isn't all that in place for you? Is what you do one year significantly different from what you teach the next year? Isn't the teaching planned out at the start of the year or term? Is there anyway IT can be used to make this simpler?
And what do you actually do on an 'inset day'?
This may not be representative of all schools but, as someone who was working 11 hours most days at the time, it didn't leave me with a great impression of teacher's work ethic and flexibility.
My role in the school means I have a much reduced timetable. I teach English to years nine and ten. I teach eight fifty minute lessons. I reckon I plan about half an hour to an hour for each lesson but it varies. The National Curriculum outlines what you should be covering. However, the lessons teachers plan have to be tailored to their pupils' needs ( in my class I have four with a statement of SEN, four EAL pupils and all the others have low literacy levels.) Therefore I have to provide lessons for a range of pupils and ensure they can all access the work. Marking is regular and in depth.
What is taught for one class is different for the next year and class. Therefore you plan accordingly. What works for one class doesn't necessarily work for another.
My head isn't taking the mick out of me at all. I get in work at half seven and leave at half six. I work evenings and weekends. Again, though is is because of my role. And believe me I delegate on a regular basis.
Inset days give the opportunity for collaboration, professional and personalised training and the opportunity to understand the latest Government tinkering and the impact it has on the school. We do our training in house so if there is a member of staff with a particular skill or expertise they will work with other staff on that. For example I am running training sessions on restraint and de-escalation, dealing with difficult parents and being an effective middle leader.
There is much less freedom in education than people are aware. Most things you do are governed by rules, laws and the need to evidence and justify more or less everything you do. The days, for example, of a PE teacher being allowed to drive round the streets, while smoking a fag and barking instructions at his class doing cross country are long gone.
I think people who think Waterloo Rd is the barometer for what really goes on in schools are at best misinformed and worst bloody stupid.