Coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't have kids, and doesn't want them, why should I be made to pay extra to subsidise people with kids who want someone to intervene and force holiday companies, airlines etc to implement pricing that prevents them increasing/decreasing costs bases on the principles of supply and demand?
Holidays are not a right. It's also a choice to have kids. I already get pissed off enough as it is that I pretty much can't take any time off during half terms or most of the summer holidays because I'm expected to cover work of people who don't even bother to ask me whether I'd like to take time off during those periods - they just assume that I'm ok with the situation.
Not a rant against people with kids - that's your choice. Just don't expect to have your cake and eat it.
Just for a bit of research, tapped onto Thomson's website and picked one of their standard Spain family hotels for a 2 week break for 2 adults and 2 three-year olds. Same break, same flights, one in school holiday, one in term time
Sat 14th June - Total cost £2993 HB, £3721 AI Sat 9th Aug - Total cost £5063 HB, £5791 AI
That's not some exotic 5* location in the Maldives, just a bog standard family Protur hotel in Spain. Aside from the disgusting prices, you can see why people do it because they simply can't afford the equivalent term time breaks.
Of course you've the option of no holiday or doing something cheaper in this country, but there are a multiple of reasons why families benefit from these type of holidays at some stage.
Something's got to give.
on those figures, your children could hop the wag, you pay the fine (grin and bear it) and you still save money .. one other point .. children will probably learn more about life from time spent abroad than they would from sitting in a cramped & boring schoolroom .. AND (2 other points !) the children belong to you, not the local EA, it should be up to you to decide their priorities in life until they are able to decide for themselves
I think it's a fairly weak argument to claim that kids will be learning anything from a 2 week Thomson's holiday to Benidorm. It's hardly backpacking through the Himalayas - I wonder how much the price differs for that through the year!
I worked for a large company and our holidays were mapped out to cause the least inconvenience to the firm.
Therefore workers had to have the holidays they were allocated and so as not penalise my kids by not having a holiday I took them away in term time if that's what I had to do.
They need to make some sort of provision for people with kids to have their holidays during the school holidays before they start fining them .
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
But there are 14+ school holiday weeks when holidays can be booked! Plenty of time for ''quality family time'' - in my experience an alien concept to many many families.
Coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't have kids, and doesn't want them, why should I be made to pay extra to subsidise people with kids who want someone to intervene and force holiday companies, airlines etc to implement pricing that prevents them increasing/decreasing costs bases on the principles of supply and demand?
Holidays are not a right. It's also a choice to have kids. I already get pissed off enough as it is that I pretty much can't take any time off during half terms or most of the summer holidays because I'm expected to cover work of people who don't even bother to ask me whether I'd like to take time off during those periods - they just assume that I'm ok with the situation.
Not a rant against people with kids - that's your choice. Just don't expect to have your cake and eat it.
Leroy, as a parent I agree with you in that school holiday holidays (does that make sense?)should cost more due to supply and demand and that it is nobodies business other than the travel companies how much they charge the rest of the year. Should be no regulation to make the costs fairer (or more unfair if you travel outside of school hols)
Also, why dont you just book time off work during the school holidays if that is when you wish to have time off? There are no laws saying employees with children get first dibs on holidays during that time.
Sorry but I don't understand when going on holiday became a right?
It's about as valid as the right of government to interfere in the educational and vacational decisions of its citizens.
Sorry but that's about the most absurd thing I have ever read on here (and that's saying something).
Governments are paid taxes to run state affairs. I vote on which party I think will use this money in the best way. My taxes contribute to education. Therefore it is entirely valid for the government to 'interfere' in education.
If you want education outside of government control there is a very simply way to get it - pay for it yourself and take all the holidays you want.
Posting without reading above however I heard the interview with the husband on Radio 5 Live last night and an interesting point he did make was that the school and the courts are quick enough to fine parents like him, however they do not appear to be so eager when it comes to dealing with parents that allow their children to play truant.
He went on to say the problem with children not attending school due to truancy and parents who don't seem to care is much greater than the cases of children missing term time due to holidays.
It is the first time I have heard Peter Allen (Radio 5 Live) lost for words.
Sorry but I don't understand when going on holiday became a right?
It's about as valid as the right of government to interfere in the educational and vacational decisions of its citizens.
Sorry but that's about the most absurd thing I have ever read on here (and that's saying something).
Governments are paid taxes to run state affairs. I vote on which party I think will use this money in the best way. My taxes contribute to education. Therefore it is entirely valid for the government to 'interfere' in education.
If you want education outside of government control there is a very simply way to get it - pay for it yourself and take all the holidays you want.
I think the government should focus on providing a world-class education system (something successive govts have failed to do) - if they achieved this then parents might think twice about their kids missing out on something useful.
True, no laws against it, but you and I know that in reality, just because you can't actually be disciplined for doing that, it would make your life uncomfortable with colleagues you otherwise get along with, and it's the sort of thing that gets mentioned in appraisals in the 'working well as a team' section.
In addition, try taking time off in the holidays when your manager has kids and is sympathetic to others who have them.
Lets be totally honest about this. This has come about because people want a package holiday in the sun, not because they want to take their kids on educational field trips. If your holiday costs you twice as much as it would if you didn't have kids, tough shit. It isn't as if higher prices for holidays in when school is out is new - it was exactly the same when I was a kid and we never went abroad as a result. Don't like it, don't have kids. It's like these people who buy a house that's cheap because it's near an airport, then moan about the noise of the planes.
Posting without reading above however I heard the interview with the husband on Radio 5 Live last night and an interesting point he did make was that the school and the courts are quick enough to fine parents like him, however they do not appear to be so eager when it comes to dealing with parents that allow their children to play truant.
He went on to say the problem with children not attending school due to truancy and parents who don't seem to care is much greater than the cases of children missing term time due to holidays.
It is the first time I have heard Peter Allen (Radio 5 Live) lost for words.
The difference being that the parents have made the choice to pull their child out for a holiday.
Truanting is usually done with no knowledge from the parent and at an age where the child can make conscious decisions themselves. Parents usually do care, but while working its difficult to police them to school on time and make sure they stay there for the entire day.
I understand the holiday companies saying supply and demand but it does sometimes feel that parents are subsidising the holidays of those people that don't have children.
Or you could say that people who don't have children are keeping the prices of hotels and flights down by using them for the rest of the year...
Talking of which, don't forget to send me your flight details... :-)
Sorry but I don't understand when going on holiday became a right?
It's about as valid as the right of government to interfere in the educational and vacational decisions of its citizens.
Sorry but that's about the most absurd thing I have ever read on here (and that's saying something).
Governments are paid taxes to run state affairs. I vote on which party I think will use this money in the best way. My taxes contribute to education. Therefore it is entirely valid for the government to 'interfere' in education.
If you want education outside of government control there is a very simply way to get it - pay for it yourself and take all the holidays you want.
I think the government should focus on providing a world-class education system (something successive govts have failed to do) - if they achieved this then parents might think twice about their kids missing out on something useful.
Sadly society does not react to carrots as well as it reacts to sticks.
The schools have now been given the right to set their own holidays, 2 of my childrens' schools have decided starting from next year they are going to reduce the summer holidays by 1 week, so they go back end of August and increase October half term by a week, this means that parents can take their kids away in a week in October when it is in most places term time, so reduced prices. If more schools moved their holidays around there will be more to play with in terms of booking holidays. An extra week end of May /beginning of June would be good .
Why do kids get 12-14 weeks a year holiday anyway? They should do a full 52 week term with 25 days holiday to book when they wish.
Surely this way they'd condense 11 years of school down to 8.5 years, getting them to college & uni earlier. We could have a nation of degree educated children by the age of 18 taking the world by storm.
Great, 3 kids, in 3 school,s with 3 different half terms, to try and cover.
I know it doesn't suit everyone I have four in 3 different schools but most people put their children in the same schools, Also I think schools generally copy close by schools. Obviously if they all done the same holidays nationally it will defeat the object.
Sorry but I don't understand when going on holiday became a right?
It's about as valid as the right of government to interfere in the educational and vacational decisions of its citizens.
Sorry but that's about the most absurd thing I have ever read on here (and that's saying something).
Governments are paid taxes to run state affairs. I vote on which party I think will use this money in the best way. My taxes contribute to education. Therefore it is entirely valid for the government to 'interfere' in education.
If you want education outside of government control there is a very simply way to get it - pay for it yourself and take all the holidays you want.
I think the government should focus on providing a world-class education system (something successive govts have failed to do) - if they achieved this then parents might think twice about their kids missing out on something useful.
Sadly society does not react to carrots as well as it reacts to sticks.
Not sure - there's a good book called 'Nudge' by Richard Thaler which as the name suggests looks at ways that govts (amongst others) can 'nudge' its citizens to make good decisions. It has become quite fashionable I believe, especially given the need for cutbacks of traditional fiscal spending.
In the interests of full disclosure, I refuse to take seriously any edicts from the education ministry or local authorities when the current system effectively blocks entry to many of the best schools on the basis not of ability, address or need, but on how often parents attend church.
Personally i think it is ridiculous. Nothing will convince me that what a 6-10yr old covers in school during one week can't be easily caught up / done in advance.
Quality family time is in my opinion more essential than a week at school.
At his all day long, I'm getting married in June and taking my 2 out of school for a week (as it's cheaper) and they won't miss anything!!!
Comments
Holidays are not a right. It's also a choice to have kids. I already get pissed off enough as it is that I pretty much can't take any time off during half terms or most of the summer holidays because I'm expected to cover work of people who don't even bother to ask me whether I'd like to take time off during those periods - they just assume that I'm ok with the situation.
Not a rant against people with kids - that's your choice. Just don't expect to have your cake and eat it.
Therefore workers had to have the holidays they were allocated and so as not penalise my kids by not having a holiday I took them
away in term time if that's what I had to do.
They need to make some sort of provision for people with kids to have their holidays during the school holidays before they start fining them .
Also, why dont you just book time off work during the school holidays if that is when you wish to have time off? There are no laws saying employees with children get first dibs on holidays during that time.
Governments are paid taxes to run state affairs. I vote on which party I think will use this money in the best way. My taxes contribute to education. Therefore it is entirely valid for the government to 'interfere' in education.
If you want education outside of government control there is a very simply way to get it - pay for it yourself and take all the holidays you want.
He went on to say the problem with children not attending school due to truancy and parents who don't seem to care is much greater than the cases of children missing term time due to holidays.
It is the first time I have heard Peter Allen (Radio 5 Live) lost for words.
In addition, try taking time off in the holidays when your manager has kids and is sympathetic to others who have them.
Lets be totally honest about this. This has come about because people want a package holiday in the sun, not because they want to take their kids on educational field trips. If your holiday costs you twice as much as it would if you didn't have kids, tough shit. It isn't as if higher prices for holidays in when school is out is new - it was exactly the same when I was a kid and we never went abroad as a result. Don't like it, don't have kids. It's like these people who buy a house that's cheap because it's near an airport, then moan about the noise of the planes.
Truanting is usually done with no knowledge from the parent and at an age where the child can make conscious decisions themselves. Parents usually do care, but while working its difficult to police them to school on time and make sure they stay there for the entire day.
Talking of which, don't forget to send me your flight details... :-)
Surely this way they'd condense 11 years of school down to 8.5 years, getting them to college & uni earlier. We could have a nation of degree educated children by the age of 18 taking the world by storm.
In the interests of full disclosure, I refuse to take seriously any edicts from the education ministry or local authorities when the current system effectively blocks entry to many of the best schools on the basis not of ability, address or need, but on how often parents attend church.