Yes, February 2014 ie 2 years and 9 months ago this thread was started. Go back and read the same old nonsense every time he had a less than brilliant game.
That is so long ago that Duchalet has seen a Charlton game live since then and we've had 28 managers.
Of course if you keep saying a 30+ player is passed it you are going to be right eventually but remember people were writing him off the last time we were in league one FFS.
IMHO Jackson shouldn't be starting or even playing wide. Powell said the same after the League 1 winning season.
In the middle with mobile, younger, faster players around him he has something to offer in experience, passing and goals as he's shown time and time again including this season.
His career at this level is coming to an end and it would make more sense to have him on the bench more often than not but he started v Scunthorpe and we won playing good football. And Jacko scored but for many memories are short, blinkers are large and prejudices ingrained.
I really hope Robinson gets the backing to buy two or three extra midfielders and JJ can be used more sparingly and so to more effect.
The real crime here isn't that JJ is getting old but that the club still haven't found his replacement.
And everything, say, Josh Magennis says or does indicates that he isn't proud? I think we've got plenty of good guys who get it right now.
I don't know about Magennis (such a statement would probably upset his parent club) but this is the Jacko thread.
I'm pretty sure Magennis is here as one of our own players? Either way, I agree with you - this is a Jacko thread.
I understand exactly what was meant by saying Jacko was one of the "real Charlton" players, and he has been "real Charlton" throughout a really difficult time. I wonder how much of an overall impact he's had in the dressing room as a form of continuity for the players whilst managers have been revolving in-and-out. Let's not forget that even Katrien understands this connection with the fan-base enough to rope Jacko in to some the attempts at winning us over.
I can't fault Jacko as a Charlton player - he's exactly the type of player we all love to see; one who seems to genuinely have an affinity to the club, who can lead from the front and provide some support for those around him. His performance vs Cardiff during our first season in The Championship, where we 0-2 down and he pulled us back level, epitomises him.
That said, he is getting on a bit - and although he may not be as completely knackered as some are saying, @Henry Irving has hit the nail on the head about the real failure being no replacement for him. You can't blame him for playing in a midfield that's completely devoid of options.. but I'm pretty sure I've read one person blaming him for precisely that in this thread?! I dare say Jacko himself understands that he's coming to the end of his career, the game is getting more difficult and injuries are taking a bigger toll... but he doesn't exactly pick himself for the squad does he?
Jackson has got 4 goals this season, more than any other non-forward in the squad and 2 behind our overall top scorer, Ademola Lookman. I would imagine his goals scored per goalscoring opportunity ratio is probably significantly higher than anyone else in the squad, and the ability to convert chances into goals is a talent that shouldn't be taken for granted.
If we bought two good central midfield players to do the running, so that Jacko wasn't required to do that anymore and could concentrate on making passes and being in the box at the right time, I think that Jacko could once again look like a decent player, he'd score more and create more because he wouldn't be occupied with attempting to carry out jobs that he's no longer capable of.
If we bought two good central midfield players to play alongside Crofts, Crofts would still look bang average.
That's not to say that Jacko is irreplaceable, or that we should be trying to build a side around him.
This feels a bit like the Rooney debate to me. Rooney is always the focus for criticism after a poor England performance, but just because he's not quite the player he used to be, doesn't mean he's the weakest player in the side. It's the same with Jackson - if I had an unlimited budget to replace 3 players from Saturday's Charlton side, there would be others I'd get rid off before Jacko, so I don't really get why he always seems to get the brunt of the criticism.
Jackson has got 4 goals this season, more than any other non-forward in the squad and 2 behind our overall top scorer, Ademola Lookman. I would imagine his goals scored per goalscoring opportunity ratio is probably significantly higher than anyone else in the squad, and the ability to convert chances into goals is a talent that shouldn't be taken for granted.
If we bought two good central midfield players to do the running, so that Jacko wasn't required to do that anymore and could concentrate on making passes and being in the box at the right time, I think that Jacko could once again look like a decent player, he'd score more and create more because he wouldn't be occupied with attempting to carry out jobs that he's no longer capable of.
If we bought two good central midfield players to play alongside Crofts, Crofts would still look bang average.
That's not to say that Jacko is irreplaceable, or that we should be trying to build a side around him.
This feels a bit like the Rooney debate to me. Rooney is always the focus for criticism after a poor England performance, but just because he's not quite the player he used to be, doesn't mean he's the weakest player in the side. It's the same with Jackson - if I had an unlimited budget to replace 3 players from Saturday's Charlton side, there would be others I'd get rid off before Jacko, so I don't really get why he always seems to get the brunt of the criticism.
Because the people who have been writing him off for years, literally years, are desperate to justify their previously false claims that his legs were gone, blah blah blah.
Don't give them facts like he's scored 4 goals as those goals don't count, only poor performances are seen or commented on.
Yes, February 2014 ie 2 years and 9 months ago this thread was started. Go back and read the same old nonsense every time he had a less than brilliant game.
That is so long ago that Duchalet has seen a Charlton game live since then and we've had 28 managers.
Of course if you keep saying a 30+ player is passed it you are going to be right eventually but remember people were writing him off the last time we were in league one FFS.
IMHO Jackson shouldn't be starting or even playing wide. Powell said the same after the League 1 winning season.
In the middle with mobile, younger, faster players around him he has something to offer in experience, passing and goals as he's shown time and time again including this season.
His career at this level is coming to an end and it would make more sense to have him on the bench more often than not but he started v Scunthorpe and we won playing good football. And Jacko scored but for many memories are short, blinkers are large and prejudices ingrained.
I really hope Robinson gets the backing to buy two or three extra midfielders and JJ can be used more sparingly and so to more effect.
The real crime here isn't that JJ is getting old but that the club still haven't found his replacement.
This is it in a nutshell. Jacko himself will freely admit he isnt up the the required standard to start games regularly, but what other options do we have? Well Chicksen and Botaka for starters..... but we still need to get some younger CMs in January, which will allow for some cameos off the bench later in the game when the opposition have tired.
He was poor today and offered nothing. Was correct to take him off
A bit like near enough all of our players today then.
Why don't we have threads like this for Andrew Crofts and Kevin Foley week in and week out?
No one is a bigger fan of Jacko than me, but on Saturday I saw this thread, and stand by what I thought Saturday night he had a poor game and had to come off.
Doesn't mean he should never play again, he simply was poor on Saturday.
Crofts and Foley on Saturday were better, not by much, but we're better
Yes, February 2014 ie 2 years and 9 months ago this thread was started. Go back and read the same old nonsense every time he had a less than brilliant game.
That is so long ago that Duchalet has seen a Charlton game live since then and we've had 28 managers.
Of course if you keep saying a 30+ player is passed it you are going to be right eventually but remember people were writing him off the last time we were in league one FFS.
IMHO Jackson shouldn't be starting or even playing wide. Powell said the same after the League 1 winning season.
In the middle with mobile, younger, faster players around him he has something to offer in experience, passing and goals as he's shown time and time again including this season.
His career at this level is coming to an end and it would make more sense to have him on the bench more often than not but he started v Scunthorpe and we won playing good football. And Jacko scored but for many memories are short, blinkers are large and prejudices ingrained.
I really hope Robinson gets the backing to buy two or three extra midfielders and JJ can be used more sparingly and so to more effect.
The real crime here isn't that JJ is getting old but that the club still haven't found his replacement.
It looks like we all agree then. Jackson shouldn't be starting.
Jackson has got 4 goals this season, more than any other non-forward in the squad and 2 behind our overall top scorer, Ademola Lookman. I would imagine his goals scored per goalscoring opportunity ratio is probably significantly higher than anyone else in the squad, and the ability to convert chances into goals is a talent that shouldn't be taken for granted.
If we bought two good central midfield players to do the running, so that Jacko wasn't required to do that anymore and could concentrate on making passes and being in the box at the right time, I think that Jacko could once again look like a decent player, he'd score more and create more because he wouldn't be occupied with attempting to carry out jobs that he's no longer capable of.
If we bought two good central midfield players to play alongside Crofts, Crofts would still look bang average.
That's not to say that Jacko is irreplaceable, or that we should be trying to build a side around him.
This feels a bit like the Rooney debate to me. Rooney is always the focus for criticism after a poor England performance, but just because he's not quite the player he used to be, doesn't mean he's the weakest player in the side. It's the same with Jackson - if I had an unlimited budget to replace 3 players from Saturday's Charlton side, there would be others I'd get rid off before Jacko, so I don't really get why he always seems to get the brunt of the criticism.
I agree with a lot you say in this but you can't carry players at this level. Too many if's and buts. He has to do some running and can't have 2 CM's alongside him really. Should only be used as a sub if we need a goal.
As I have said before I am a huge fan of JJ and all he has done for Charlton, But to play him regularly especially in left midfield is not doing him any favours.Yes he has scored four goals but the truth is a lot of the time he can't keep up with the play.We need a couple of midfield signings in January. I can see why people are precious about JJ but he should be judged on his contributions on the pitch. Not because he has been here a longtime or he is our captain.
I think his legs have gone - well more to the point - he has lost too much speed over the first couple of yards. But I also note that he has still scored more goals than than Crofts and Ulvestadt put together this season. He can do a job for us still, but for me that should mostly be from the bench.
Don't think we're doing JJ any favours by starting him - our midfield is too slow. I'm sure he would admit we're too slow. He could possibly play at LB - Powell played at that position to a good age and didn't rely on pace. JJ has the brains and experience but gets outpaced in midfield.
Despite being asked to play a handful of games as LB at Notts Co, and Parky signing him on loan to cover LB - Jacko has played all his career as a midfielder.
Once Parky signed Jacko permanently, he never played Jacko at LB.
Think he can play at LB - did okay when he played there before. Don't think pace would be such an issue.
But in the modern game pace is necessary. That is why so many wingers are being converted to full backs. Jackson last played full back quite a few years ago.
Jackson isn't finished. In that midfield he's finished. In a midfield that has energy and snap around him he's still got something to offer and will pop up with goals. Not suggesting that JJ will or should start every or even most games but he's still worth his place in the first team squad.
I wouldn't disagree wiuth that. We have been asking to do a job he can't do, but there are jobs he can do. Whether that is with the right players around him or from the bench.
Might have already been mentioned but didnt realise that Johnnie made his 250th appearance from the club on Boxing Day.
Johnnie Jackson @johnnie_jackson 12h12 hours ago Thank you for the messages.Very proud to have reached 250 appearances for Charlton,hoping there's still a couple more left!
Said this on KR to meet RD about signings thread last week.........
"The more a proper Charlton man like JJ is involved, the happier I am, as long as his input is valued and listened to. For me, taking him, and his comments yesterday about how JJ will be a manager one day, is the softening up process beginning of moving JJ to a coaching role, or releasing him at the end of the season, I.e. KR has told him he doesn't figure long term, but will use him when needed and give him his opportunity to start a coaching career if wanted."
You've got to hand it to KR, he's recognised that JJ is important to the club and loved by the fans, therefore it seems that Nugent is moving on and Jacko will fill that role.
He needs to retire from playing anyway, bless him!
Comments
Yes, February 2014 ie 2 years and 9 months ago this thread was started. Go back and read the same old nonsense every time he had a less than brilliant game.
That is so long ago that Duchalet has seen a Charlton game live since then and we've had 28 managers.
Of course if you keep saying a 30+ player is passed it you are going to be right eventually but remember people were writing him off the last time we were in league one FFS.
IMHO Jackson shouldn't be starting or even playing wide. Powell said the same after the League 1 winning season.
In the middle with mobile, younger, faster players around him he has something to offer in experience, passing and goals as he's shown time and time again including this season.
His career at this level is coming to an end and it would make more sense to have him on the bench more often than not but he started v Scunthorpe and we won playing good football. And Jacko scored but for many memories are short, blinkers are large and prejudices ingrained.
I really hope Robinson gets the backing to buy two or three extra midfielders and JJ can be used more sparingly and so to more effect.
The real crime here isn't that JJ is getting old but that the club still haven't found his replacement.
I understand exactly what was meant by saying Jacko was one of the "real Charlton" players, and he has been "real Charlton" throughout a really difficult time. I wonder how much of an overall impact he's had in the dressing room as a form of continuity for the players whilst managers have been revolving in-and-out. Let's not forget that even Katrien understands this connection with the fan-base enough to rope Jacko in to some the attempts at winning us over.
I can't fault Jacko as a Charlton player - he's exactly the type of player we all love to see; one who seems to genuinely have an affinity to the club, who can lead from the front and provide some support for those around him. His performance vs Cardiff during our first season in The Championship, where we 0-2 down and he pulled us back level, epitomises him.
That said, he is getting on a bit - and although he may not be as completely knackered as some are saying, @Henry Irving has hit the nail on the head about the real failure being no replacement for him. You can't blame him for playing in a midfield that's completely devoid of options.. but I'm pretty sure I've read one person blaming him for precisely that in this thread?! I dare say Jacko himself understands that he's coming to the end of his career, the game is getting more difficult and injuries are taking a bigger toll... but he doesn't exactly pick himself for the squad does he?
If we bought two good central midfield players to do the running, so that Jacko wasn't required to do that anymore and could concentrate on making passes and being in the box at the right time, I think that Jacko could once again look like a decent player, he'd score more and create more because he wouldn't be occupied with attempting to carry out jobs that he's no longer capable of.
If we bought two good central midfield players to play alongside Crofts, Crofts would still look bang average.
That's not to say that Jacko is irreplaceable, or that we should be trying to build a side around him.
This feels a bit like the Rooney debate to me. Rooney is always the focus for criticism after a poor England performance, but just because he's not quite the player he used to be, doesn't mean he's the weakest player in the side. It's the same with Jackson - if I had an unlimited budget to replace 3 players from Saturday's Charlton side, there would be others I'd get rid off before Jacko, so I don't really get why he always seems to get the brunt of the criticism.
Don't give them facts like he's scored 4 goals as those goals don't count, only poor performances are seen or commented on.
Doesn't mean he should never play again, he simply was poor on Saturday.
Crofts and Foley on Saturday were better, not by much, but we're better
He could possibly play at LB - Powell played at that position to a good age and didn't rely on pace. JJ has the brains and experience but gets outpaced in midfield.
Despite being asked to play a handful of games as LB at Notts Co, and Parky signing him on loan to cover LB - Jacko has played all his career as a midfielder.
Once Parky signed Jacko permanently, he never played Jacko at LB.
Johnnie Jackson @johnnie_jackson 12h12 hours ago
Thank you for the messages.Very proud to have reached 250 appearances for Charlton,hoping there's still a couple more left!
"The more a proper Charlton man like JJ is involved, the happier I am, as long as his input is valued and listened to.
For me, taking him, and his comments yesterday about how JJ will be a manager one day, is the softening up process beginning of moving JJ to a coaching role, or releasing him at the end of the season, I.e. KR has told him he doesn't figure long term, but will use him when needed and give him his opportunity to start a coaching career if wanted."
He needs to retire from playing anyway, bless him!