I just find it amazing that we have so many players with 'problems' like Finn, Trott and Monty.
Unfortunately, it's not limited to just those. Cricket is littered with players having "issues" and has the highest rate of suicide of any sport. Probably because there is so much thinking and playing time. Plus, of course, time away from the family.
And when things aren't going right all that allows far too much time for inward reflection.
I'd love Finn to get himself right he has so much promise to be one of the most horrible bowlers to face in the world
I'm a bit annoyed Compton never got more of a chance but Carberry for me is where he is and I don't see a value to having him in the squad.
Big problem I see is an absolute lack of any leadership. We used to have a few potential captains to choose from but since 97 this has been eroded tour by tour
After athers you could pick four of his batsmen to step up now unless a county captain fills the post we have to stick with Cook unfortunately and hope he finds a way out of the well
With central contracts, most England players never get the chance to captain their counties in any meaningful sense, captaining a dressing room with overseas stars, young pups, cynical old pros and party animals would be an excellent education in leading a team!
With central contracts, most England players never get the chance to captain their counties in any meaningful sense, captaining a dressing room with overseas stars, young pups, cynical old pros and party animals would be an excellent education in leading a team!
Great point - how can anyone get any County captaincy experience when all the good players are brought into 'Team England' in their early 20s?
With central contracts, most England players never get the chance to captain their counties in any meaningful sense, captaining a dressing room with overseas stars, young pups, cynical old pros and party animals would be an excellent education in leading a team!
There idea is flawed. Players cease to become county players once they joined the England set up. Players need to be get runs and wickets at county level to perform at their best at national level. Most players only get 2 or 3 four day county games per season now.
I saw Jordan bowl fiercely at Warwickshire in their second innings at Horsham yesterday. This match was his first bowl in a non-limited overs game for 5 weeks. He was very rusty in the T20 last week and not up to scratch in the first innings at Horsham and, arguably, bowled too many loose ones for Test standard yesterday.
There are too many tests, in my view. They are breeding disinterest from the public and not good for the players. Five per season was enough.
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
Correct me if I'm wrong but our last 3 (well those who did it for a meaningful length of time) captains; Vaughan and Hussain never captained at county level and Strauss only captained Middlesex for a very short period before joining the England set up. That period wasn't exactly bad for English cricket so I do wonder if it actually matters if you have county captaincy experience.
Correct me if I'm wrong but our last 3 (well those who did it for a meaningful length of time) captains; Vaughan and Hussain never captained at county level and Strauss only captained Middlesex for a very short period before joining the England set up. That period wasn't exactly bad for English cricket so I do wonder if it actually matters if you have county captaincy experience.
I think Vaughan may have captained Yorkshire at some point, ditto Hussain at Essex. It is less about the county captain experience, and more about basic captaincy acumen full stop. You can't teach it - much for it is intuitive. It can be disguised to an extent if you are captaining a winning side, but it is exposed as in Cook's case when the side is struggling.
Correct me if I'm wrong but our last 3 (well those who did it for a meaningful length of time) captains; Vaughan and Hussain never captained at county level and Strauss only captained Middlesex for a very short period before joining the England set up. That period wasn't exactly bad for English cricket so I do wonder if it actually matters if you have county captaincy experience.
thats a fair point ,speaking from experience ,albeit at a much lower level its pretty easy to spot who could become good captaincy material amongst a group of players and i wonder if the selectors/powers that be really thought enough about this when Cook was being groomed ...unfortunately we put our eggs in one basket and havent got a proper plan b ..with Cook as skipper i only think we will get worse ...
lots of good points made ..Rob Key a good skipper ,hasnt played enough for England ...Foster too ,
yes and i agree we do play too many tests to the extent they are devalued id argue the same for limited overs cricket too but the sky screens need to be filled with something and the players need paying
Correct me if I'm wrong but our last 3 (well those who did it for a meaningful length of time) captains; Vaughan and Hussain never captained at county level and Strauss only captained Middlesex for a very short period before joining the England set up. That period wasn't exactly bad for English cricket so I do wonder if it actually matters if you have county captaincy experience.
I think Vaughan may have captained Yorkshire at some point, ditto Hussain at Essex. It is less about the county captain experience, and more about basic captaincy acumen full stop. You can't teach it - much for it is intuitive. It can be disguised to an extent if you are captaining a winning side, but it is exposed as in Cook's case when the side is struggling.
He didn't, I actually thought about this the other night as on 5 live he himself said he never captained Yorkshire then got thinking about our other captains.
I would give it to James Foster at Essex for the remainder of this summer. He is an experienced captain, has played Test cricket, and is also the best wicketkeeper on the circuit. That would free up Jos Buttler to concentrate on his batting.
i dont think we ought to have high expectations of Buttler at test match level yet ..he is capable of playing innovative cricket but i am not sure he ll be able to play that way in the test match arena
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
What, the Bell who almost beat Oz single-handedly last season.?
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
What, the Bell who almost beat Oz single-handedly last season.?
Erm...we actually LOST 5-0 to Australia last winter ....with Bell an ever present in the side. The bottom line is that the lad has never consistently delivered when the pressure is on. As Shane Warne said of him, Bell is a world class batsman when he walks in with the score on 350-2.
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
What, the Bell who almost beat Oz single-handedly last season.?
Erm...we actually LOST 5-0 to Australia last winter ....with Bell an ever present in the side. The bottom line is that the lad has never consistently delivered when the pressure is on. As Shane Warne said of him, Bell is a world class batsman when he walks in with the score on 350-2.
true very rarely gets hard runs ...Warne right about Cook long before it became a noticable issue
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
What, the Bell who almost beat Oz single-handedly last season.?
Erm...we actually LOST 5-0 to Australia last winter ....with Bell an ever present in the side. The bottom line is that the lad has never consistently delivered when the pressure is on. As Shane Warne said of him, Bell is a world class batsman when he walks in with the score on 350-2.
Rubbish. If it wasn't for Bells runs in last years Ashes (the home series, not down under) we would have lost.
Edit. In fact, just looking over the scorecards from that series all the runs he scored in that series where when we were in trouble.
Might it be worth England considering the "Mike Brearley option", and now selecting a County Captain who brings leadership & tactical acumen to the side. Cook demonstrated again at Lords that for all the back up advice he is receiving from Moores & Farbrace etc, he is just never going to cut it as a captain. He simply lacks that extra something. Far better surely to leave him to concentrate on opening the batting and scoring runs ? There are 3 or 4 experienced captains out there who could come in for the rest of this series, including Key at Kent and Foster from Essex (who could also keep wicket).
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
What, the Bell who almost beat Oz single-handedly last season.?
Erm...we actually LOST 5-0 to Australia last winter ....with Bell an ever present in the side. The bottom line is that the lad has never consistently delivered when the pressure is on. As Shane Warne said of him, Bell is a world class batsman when he walks in with the score on 350-2.
Rubbish. If it wasn't for Bells runs in last years Ashes (the home series, not down under) we would have lost.
Edit. In fact, just looking over the scorecards from that series all the runs he scored in that series where when we were in trouble.
Correct - thank you AFL. Bell was top of the averages in Ashes 2013 with 63 (and as AFL states, most were when England were in trouble) - and came 5th (strangely his batting position) in averages in OZ at 26, where everyone struggled.
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Strange that noone can tell me what it is !!
It's rubbish. Morgan should not be anywhere near the test team, yet. You cannot pick a captain who wouldn't actually be good enough to get in the team if he wasn't captain.
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Strange that noone can tell me what it is !!
It's rubbish. Morgan should not be anywhere near the test team, yet. You cannot pick a captain who wouldn't actually be good enough to get in the team if he wasn't captain.
As someone else mentioned earlier - they did it with Brearley.
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Strange that noone can tell me what it is !!
It's rubbish. Morgan should not be anywhere near the test team, yet. You cannot pick a captain who wouldn't actually be good enough to get in the team if he wasn't captain.
As someone else mentioned earlier - they did it with Brearley.
Brearley was an exception - a once in a lifetime motivational expert, probably in the same mould as Clough. Morgan isnt, not even close.
This is the dilemma. For all the calls from those who want Cook gone very few are offering up an alternative. I'm slowly coming round to the idea of giving it to Morgan. He clearly has talent but hasn't looked great in tests, but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides. If we are intent on replacing Cook as captain then I'd prefer this rather than someone from county level who has never played international cricket.
I despair ! Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides" Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Strange that noone can tell me what it is !!
It's rubbish. Morgan should not be anywhere near the test team, yet. You cannot pick a captain who wouldn't actually be good enough to get in the team if he wasn't captain.
As someone else mentioned earlier - they did it with Brearley.
Who was an exceptional captain. If someone could prove to me that Morgan was that good then fine, but to be honest all I've seen is him pretty decent in one day and T20.
Brearley was a one off. He was such a good captain that he made up for his deficiency as a batsman. And also he knew how to get the best out of Botham.
Brearley was a one off. He was such a good captain that he made up for his deficiency as a batsman. And also he knew how to get the best out of Botham.
According to my Dad, Brearley was not picked out of county cricket to captain England. He was actually already in the England team when he became captain. He had been chosen as a batsman on the previous winter tour of India apparently and assumed the captaincy when Tony Grieg was sacked for his Packer defection.
Comments
And when things aren't going right all that allows far too much time for inward reflection.
I'm a bit annoyed Compton never got more of a chance but Carberry for me is where he is and I don't see a value to having him in the squad.
Big problem I see is an absolute lack of any leadership. We used to have a few potential captains to choose from but since 97 this has been eroded tour by tour
After athers you could pick four of his batsmen to step up now unless a county captain fills the post we have to stick with Cook unfortunately and hope he finds a way out of the well
I saw Jordan bowl fiercely at Warwickshire in their second innings at Horsham yesterday. This match was his first bowl in a non-limited overs game for 5 weeks. He was very rusty in the T20 last week and not up to scratch in the first innings at Horsham and, arguably, bowled too many loose ones for Test standard yesterday.
There are too many tests, in my view. They are breeding disinterest from the public and not good for the players. Five per season was enough.
Bell, Prior and Broad have become huge let downs over the last 12 months.
lots of good points made ..Rob Key a good skipper ,hasnt played enough for England ...Foster too ,
yes and i agree we do play too many tests to the extent they are devalued id argue the same for limited overs cricket too but the sky screens need to be filled with something and the players need paying
I would give it to James Foster at Essex for the remainder of this summer. He is an experienced captain, has played Test cricket, and is also the best wicketkeeper on the circuit. That would free up Jos Buttler to concentrate on his batting.
Id go with Morgan
Can someone please.please,please tell me what it is that Morgan has done this season to even deserve being mentioned ??!!
" but he has looked like he is a capable captain whenever he has taken charge of the ODI/T20 sides"
Is that the same Morgan who captains Middx at 20/20 who are bottom of the league with 2 wins from 13 games ?? Sounds like a capable captain to me !!
Edit. In fact, just looking over the scorecards from that series all the runs he scored in that series where when we were in trouble.
Bell was top of the averages in Ashes 2013 with 63 (and as AFL states, most were when England were in trouble) - and came 5th (strangely his batting position) in averages in OZ at 26, where everyone struggled.
It's rubbish. Morgan should not be anywhere near the test team, yet. You cannot pick a captain who wouldn't actually be good enough to get in the team if he wasn't captain.
Morgan isnt, not even close.
Who was an exceptional captain. If someone could prove to me that Morgan was that good then fine, but to be honest all I've seen is him pretty decent in one day and T20.