Israel - time to exclude them from world sport?

SELR_addicks

Huskaris said:

SELR_addicks said:

Huskaris said:

I saw a picture today of a Palestinian man holding his daughter (aged around 2-3). She had half of her head literally blown off.

That is the true cost of the revenge that so many Israelis seek.

An important thing to remember is that amongst Israelis there is little appetite for reconciliation, the bloodlust of that nation is completely unreal. Listen to any radio station like LBC when they do a phone in on this issue, the one sided closed mindedness of the Israelis (and a lot of British jews) is unreal. The idea that they are some kind of oppressed victims of Western Media (purely, as far as I can see based on the fact that the media actually reports the numbers of dead on each side) is absolutely laughable.

You couldn't be more wrong

"Notwithstanding all the events in recent years, a majority of the Jewish public also views the Palestinians' demand for an independent state as justified - 62 percent (compared to 34.5 percent who see it as unjustified). As in the past, there is also a majority - 58 percent - that is sure or thinks Israel can permit the establishment of an independent Palestinian state (32 percent think or are sure it cannot, and the rest do not know)."

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/just-another-forgotten-peace-summit-1.235013

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies

Another Haaretz pole said that the majority would favour apartheid. Ironically, the arabs are viewed as sub human by many israelis it would seem.

I would argue that although Israel does want peace, they want it very much to be on their own terms.

That whole opinion poll hinges on IF Israel annexed the West Bank, which the Israeli population don't want. They want a two-state solution.



Also, the idea that in this escalation of violence there have been no Israeli deaths is false. The entire escalation is due to the 3 Israeli teenagers that were kidnapped and then killed within the West Bank.

"Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum hailed the kidnappers as 'Heroes'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shelly_Dadon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Terrorist_attacks_against_Israelis_in_the_2010s

Like I said, good and bad on both sides.

ValleyGary

I thought football arguments were bad on here but politics really does bring out the worst in people.

Addickted

LeaburnForEngland said:

while the other has home made "rockets" that are crude in comparison.

Here we see one of the 'crude' Chinese WS-1E rockets currently being used by Hamas being launched from a milk bottle in the Gaza Strip.

Red_in_SE8

Ormiston_Addick

Addickted said:

LeaburnForEngland said:

while the other has home made "rockets" that are crude in comparison.

Here we see one of the 'crude' Chinese WS-1E rockets currently being used by Hamas being launched from a milk bottle in the Gaza Strip.

Not sure if this is a wind-up but.....do you have a source for that photo? Because having been to the West Bank and Gaza that sure as shit don't look like Palestine to me.

Clue? Palestine/Israel is one of the driest countries in the world. Not a lot of greenery.

In addition, getting arms like that into Palestine - given it is being blockaded by Israel by land and sea - would be a touch on the tricky side.

CAFCBourne

The right or wrongs of each side are not the issue at this moment lives are being lost and both need to stop.

Unfortunately with the killing of the 3 Israelis and numerous on the Palestinian side I cant see it anytime soon

Addickted

Ormiston Addick said:

Addickted said:

LeaburnForEngland said:

while the other has home made "rockets" that are crude in comparison.

Here we see one of the 'crude' Chinese WS-1E rockets currently being used by Hamas being launched from a milk bottle in the Gaza Strip.

Not sure if this is a wind-up but.....do you have a source for that photo? Because having been to the West Bank and Gaza that sure as shit don't look like Palestine to me.

Clue? Palestine/Israel is one of the driest countries in the world. Not a lot of greenery.

In addition, getting arms like that into Palestine - given it is being blockaded by Israel by land and sea - would be a touch on the tricky side.

Sorry Ormi, didn't mean to suggest that this was an actual picture of Hamas in action. It is an example of the armament, not the launch site.

The Chinese Red Star is the giveaway - and even though they have fired these, I doubt if the Palestinians were able to smuggle a dirty great rocket launcher through the tunnels from Egypt.

Covered End

I understand that Israel obeyed a ceasefire called earlier today. But Hamas have refused and continue to fire rockets at Israel. (Don't shoot the messenger, just what I heard on the news).

AFKABartram

completely off topic, but everytime The Tropical Shooter bangs on about The Zionists, i keep picturing Valentin Narcisse from Boardwalk Empire warbling on about 'The Libyan Man'.

[Deleted User]

Remember Jews after the Holocaust were really more like a Band of rampaging invaders in Cornwall.

is definitely all their fault. Move On


However, I am glad to see the tone of this thread is constructive, respectful and enlightened. I dont think issues should be stuck in the corner, labelled as "too difficult to discuss".

Jints

Covered End said:

I understand that Israel obeyed a ceasefire called earlier today. But Hamas have refused and continue to fire rockets at Israel. (Don't shoot the messenger, just what I heard on the news).

I think it's been pretty well established on here that the Jews Zionists control the world's news.

Addickted

AFKABartram said:

completely off topic, but everytime The Tropical Shooter bangs on about The Zionists, i keep picturing Valentin Narcisse from Boardwalk Empire warbling on about 'The Libyan Man'.

The Tropical Shooter is an anagram of Yasser Arafat.

Covered End

Jints said:

Covered End said:

I understand that Israel obeyed a ceasefire called earlier today. But Hamas have refused and continue to fire rockets at Israel. (Don't shoot the messenger, just what I heard on the news).

I think it's been pretty well established on here that the Jews Zionists control the world's news.

Anyway, as Hamas refused to ceasefire, Israel (if it exists, according to someone it doesn't) have now resumed.

Jints

There's a split in Hamas. The more miltant wing currently has the upper hand and won't stop firing rockets.

Uboat

Some recommended reading. Not totally impartial, but then who is?

SELR_addicks

Israel's security cabinet had backed a truce proposed by Egypt - where there would be a 12-hour period of de-escalation starting mid-morning on Tuesday.

But in the six hours after the suggested period began, around 50 rockets were fire from Gaza before Israel then restarted its offensive.

A military statement said: "Hamas has fired 47 rockets since we suspended our strikes in Gaza. As a result, we have resumed our operation against Hamas."

http://news.sky.com/story/1301383/israel-resumes-airstrikes-as-truce-bid-fails

Good job Hamas...serving your population well.

Huskaris

You have to wonder, if the rockets have next to zero chance of hitting and killing a civilian in the first place, why bother firing them when it results in many people being killed on their side.

Henry Irving

Huskaris said:

You have to wonder, if the rockets have next to zero chance of hitting and killing a civilian in the first place, why bother firing them when it results in many people being killed on their side.

indeed.

It helps polarise the situation, hinders any peace talks or negotiated settlements and builds up more hatred and fear so making the militants stronger while making them appear to be the defenders of their people.

And that applies to both sides in the fighting.

newyorkaddick

I'm also particularly annoyed with the Hamas for stealing Diego Poyet from us.

scidbox

Henry Irving said:

Huskaris said:

There is a huge difference between criticism of Israel and believing the world has signed up to some zionist conspiracy.

I agree but that doesn't stop certain posters on this thread (not you) denying that Isreal is even a real state or has right to exist while that same person on another thread cracks a so called joke using a derogatory slur word for jews (and I don't mean "yid").

Israel does exist, and anyone denying that must be deluded. However Henry, Israel has been offered full recognition by the Arab league in the Arab peace plan in exchange for a reasonably fair two state solution that excluded the right of return for Palestinian refugees. Israel not only refused but also refused to start negotiations. I think the current situation suits Israel ver well.

stilladdicted

The Israeli's have sophisticated anti missile defences, the Palestinians do not. Roughly ten times as many Palestinians die as do Israelis, there is a huge inequality in every respect. Hamas is continuing to lose popularity amongst the Palestinians and support for rocket attacks has dropped sharply. Therein lies a tiny glimmer of hope.

Jints

There have been various chances for peace which have been rejected by one side or the other at various points. At present there is no chance of peace while Hamas (who reject any settlement which involves the continued existence of Israel) and Netanyahu (a bigot, in thrall to the settlers) have power.

scidbox

<.blockquote class="Quote" rel="All_Thaid_Up">Funny how people dismiss Hamas firing rocket3 indescrimately into Israel, majority of which have been shot down, but condemn Israel for retaliating.

Whether to you agree with the politics of either side, Israel has to protect itself with maximum force as to deter others.

And if you think an eventual compromise will solve the Middle East problems you are wrong, it will open up new chating."?


Take an honest look at the timeline ATU. The latest ceasefire was quite stable until 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. Between this event and the first rocket from Gaza 450 Palestinians wer arresteded without charge, 2 suspects houses demolished (this was pre punishment, I am still waiting for the IDF to demolish the homes of the 3 Israelis who murdered the Palestinian teenager or does collective punishment only apply to non jewish people under the isreali governments juristiction) 5 Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF and multiple air strikes on Gaza. Now please answer me this.
Is it only Israelis that have a right to defend themselves?
If you look objectively you will find a very similar story leading up to Cast Lead.

Shalom

Salaam

Peas.

Goonerhater

lest all agree on one thing----whatever happens they keep Blair.

shootershill2tropics

AFKABartram said:

completely off topic, but everytime The Tropical Shooter bangs on about The Zionists, i keep picturing Valentin Narcisse from Boardwalk Empire warbling on about 'The Libyan Man'.

as m k gandhi stated, first they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win! pleased i brought a smile to your day between time you lose boob tubing on the boardwalk...;>) COYRRRRRRRRRRR.....

theeenorth

Check out the solidarity movement in Sheikh Jarrah for a glimpse of what is possible.
Hamas following classic non state actor model for insurgents, provide education, welfare and medical services, replacing the normal functions of the state and therefore appear legit although clearly many do not support their endless folly.
Settler land grabs are so clearly disgraceful that anyone who even attempts to defend them must wash afterwards to scrub the taint from themselves.
Two state solution long dead, three state solution?
The truth is that the Palestinians do not possess anything of value to the powers of the age and therefore their problems will never be settled full stop.

Ormiston_Addick

Addickted said:

Ormiston Addick said:

Addickted said:

LeaburnForEngland said:

while the other has home made "rockets" that are crude in comparison.

Here we see one of the 'crude' Chinese WS-1E rockets currently being used by Hamas being launched from a milk bottle in the Gaza Strip.

Not sure if this is a wind-up but.....do you have a source for that photo? Because having been to the West Bank and Gaza that sure as shit don't look like Palestine to me.

Clue? Palestine/Israel is one of the driest countries in the world. Not a lot of greenery.

In addition, getting arms like that into Palestine - given it is being blockaded by Israel by land and sea - would be a touch on the tricky side.

Sorry Ormi, didn't mean to suggest that this was an actual picture of Hamas in action. It is an example of the armament, not the launch site.

The Chinese Red Star is the giveaway - and even though they have fired these, I doubt if the Palestinians were able to smuggle a dirty great rocket launcher through the tunnels from Egypt.

No worries, just that the Israeli Border Guards held us up for FIVE HOURS while they examined the Modems we were taking into Palestine to make sure they could "not be used for other purposes."

Fuck knows how long they'd hold you up if you tried to take a Chinese rocket-launcher in there!

harveys_gardener

There will never be a status quo while land grabs continue. Hence the need to bypass the US veto in United Nations.

NeedMoreGrass

When the IRA bombed London did we blow the shit out of Dublin in response? Of course not, that would have made us no better than them.


Really? What kind of propaganda is that?
You forgot to mention that Ireland was invaded, oppressed and occupied by Britain and still is!
Oh and the biggest atrocity during the troubles was committed in Dublin by UK terrorists, with no warning!
Small wonder people are confused about who is guilty of what.

Ormiston_Addick

NeedMoreGrass said:

When the IRA bombed London did we blow the shit out of Dublin in response? Of course not, that would have made us no better than them.


Really? What kind of propaganda is that?
You forgot to mention that Ireland was invaded, oppressed and occupied by Britain and still is!
Oh and the biggest atrocity during the troubles was committed in Dublin by UK terrorists, with no warning!
Small wonder people are confused about who is guilty of what.

Did the RAF fly over Dublin and drop bombs in the 80s and 90s Must have missed that.

Did the British Army fire artillery into the Republic with the intention of killing people in the 80s and 90s?

There was, of course, collusion between the British government and the Loyalist paramilitaries in the post 1960s - no question.

You will get no argument from me either about the shameful presence and conduct of the British in Ireland, would have been better if we had never set foot there.