The first Israeli died from a rocket attack yesterday I heard.
I maintain that the only way that you will solve the Arab Israeli conflict (and even then it's a slim one) is to actually give the Palestinians something worth living for. That means a viable economy with jobs, along with an end to landgrabbing. The problem is that right now I think you would find a lot of people agree to thar in Palestine, but so many people have lost their families that the bloodlust will continue to be there for some and they will keep firing rockets, almost like a real IRA. Then you have it all kicking off again.
Every rocket and missile fired today makes a long run peace process more and more unbrokerable. If Hamas agree to a ceasefire checkpoints will have to be stepped up severalfold because rather than these rockets which are (although scary, sure) 99.99% ineffective in killing people, without them individuals who hate Israel who previously fired rockets sponsored by the state now have to go to other methods to kill their enemy, such as car bombs and assassinations, and without a complete lockdown they are hard to prevent.
Any peace would, it goes without saying, be a very uneasy one. An economy, security, suffrage, self determination and something to live for would go some way to help this.
Could it be the jewel in Blair's crown? Say what you like about the man, he is hated for his foreign interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. What about Bosnia, sierra leonne and the northern Ireland peace process? His ego if anything would push him to broker a deal asap.
The region is dominated by two cookie creeds; (at least) one of which believes that the afterlife is more important than the present and (at least) one of which believes that its people are chosen by god. Until people start questioning the nonsense they have been spoon-fed by their fathers and fore-fathers, they are destined to forever squabble over the same bit of land. It is important to recognise the past, but sometimes you have to draw a line and say that was then and this is now. Until people realise that getting on with their neighbours is more important than controlling the location of various fictitious and semi-fictitious events, the seeds of conflict will always be there.
This documentary is really worth watching it clarifies what is happening to Palestinian lands and homes and the desperation of life in Palestine. It has Israeli film funding and has been shown a lot in Israel to educate young people there about the experience of young people in Palestine. Its really worth watching the whole film.
The first Israeli died from a rocket attack yesterday I heard.
I maintain that the only way that you will solve the Arab Israeli conflict (and even then it's a slim one) is to actually give the Palestinians something worth living for. That means a viable economy with jobs, along with an end to landgrabbing. The problem is that right now I think you would find a lot of people agree to thar in Palestine, but so many people have lost their families that the bloodlust will continue to be there for some and they will keep firing rockets, almost like a real IRA. Then you have it all kicking off again.
Every rocket and missile fired today makes a long run peace process more and more unbrokerable. If Hamas agree to a ceasefire checkpoints will have to be stepped up severalfold because rather than these rockets which are (although scary, sure) 99.99% ineffective in killing people, without them individuals who hate Israel who previously fired rockets sponsored by the state now have to go to other methods to kill their enemy, such as car bombs and assassinations, and without a complete lockdown they are hard to prevent.
Any peace would, it goes without saying, be a very uneasy one. An economy, security, suffrage, self determination and something to live for would go some way to help this.
Could it be the jewel in Blair's crown? Say what you like about the man, he is hated for his foreign interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. What about Bosnia, sierra leonne and the northern Ireland peace process? His ego if anything would push him to broker a deal asap.
blair won't do anything until God tells him to do it
Blair is in the pockets of the Israelis and won't broker a deal. As I said earlier, he's been peace envoy for 7 years but been to Gaza once. Once! He should be in The Hague where he belongs and the job given to someone else.
Also, for those that are saying Hamas didn't agree to the ceasefire deal - well that was the ceasefire deal proposed by Israel's friends in Turkey this week that is designed to paint Israel in a positive light for being the side to back down initially. In fact, Hamas is in favour of a truce and ceasefire, to the conditions that were agreed previously with US and international community backing. Israel pulled out of agreeing to it after months of delays when Palestine signed on to various UN treaties and were officially recognised as a state. If Israel agreed to the terms previously agreed then Hamas back a ceasefire! So don't fall for the short termist view of evaluating their willingness based on the last week...
This weeks proposed truce was all a ruse to curry favour again with the international community who had begun to vocally criticise Israel more and more loudly. It does feel like the tide is slowly turning but how many more civilians will die in the meantime?
completely off topic, but everytime The Tropical Shooter bangs on about The Zionists, i keep picturing Valentin Narcisse from Boardwalk Empire warbling on about 'The Libyan Man'.
Birmingham 22 dead no warning friday night nail bombs under seats after the "oppressed man and woman" chatted happily to the people that were about to blow to pieces.
Celtic showing their usual solidarity with the Palestines last night in Iceland. Would be pissed off if I supported them (shudders) having my support of a 'side' expressed without my consent. No surprise though from that lot.
Oh and the biggest atrocity during the troubles was committed in Dublin by UK terrorists, with no warning!
You can't have it both ways - the Dublin bomb was made and planted by Irishmen.
Oh - and it killed two fewer people than the Omargh Bomb - also planted by Irishmen, who gave false warnings so that people were actually being diverted to where the car bomb was.
But you stick by your made up narrow minded views of History.
600 rocket attacks in a few weeks against their people. What should their response be exactly ?
i have to say i verge on agreeing with this comment. israel is always portrayed the villain but it goes both ways. they to have innocents maimed and killed by the palestinians but it's always deemed israels fault, not sure i can agree with that!
600 rocket attacks in a few weeks against their people. What should their response be exactly ?
i have to say i verge on agreeing with this comment. israel is always portrayed the villain but it goes both ways. they to have innocents maimed and killed by the palestinians but it's always deemed israels fault, not sure i can agree with that!
Well in that case you should read up a bit more on the history of the conflict and the respective force used by each side before making such ludicrous statements as "it goes both ways".
I've read lots about the history and I think it goes both ways (althoguh I think that the blame falls a bit more on the Israelis at the moment). Of course, it doesn't matter how much you know if you see everything through pro/anti Israeli glasses.
600 rocket attacks in a few weeks against their people. What should their response be exactly ?
i have to say i verge on agreeing with this comment. israel is always portrayed the villain but it goes both ways. they to have innocents maimed and killed by the palestinians but it's always deemed israels fault, not sure i can agree with that!
Well in that case you should read up a bit more on the history of the conflict and the respective force used by each side before making such ludicrous statements as "it goes both ways".
Well in that case you should read up a bit more on the history of the conflict and the respective force used by each side before making such ludicrous statements as "it goes both ways".
sorry for not agreeing with you but perhaps you should do some reading yourself i'm only putting forward a point you can disagree without resorting to being an arsehole!
Been looking at Shrews video and its pitiful to see what is happening and shocking to see the unprovoked violence of the Israeli troops. But protesting and fighting against the symptoms of the conflict is absolutely futile yet, but, in the absence of any political franchise, it is seen as the Palestinians only outlet to express anger. Normality is a 5 year old child asking his father why he doesn't kill the soldiers with a knife and hailed as a hero by his mother for going to a demonstration and not running away under attack.
Father could not get financial help from Hamas for his car crash injuries because injuries were not directly as a result of fighting, says all you need to know about Hamas using the inhabitants as pawns. They would rather spend the money that's not in their Swiss bank accounts to fire off rockets to ensure the conflict carried on, than ease the suffering of those they claim to represent. Surely even a bad settlement from the Palestinian perspective, which gives peace, is better than the alternative, like the man driven to laying down in front of the troops pleading them to shoot him dead.
Would be good if the Palestinians made a film showing the perspective of moderate Israelis who don't support illegal settlements and simply believe that if they don't build defended barriers they will be annihilated, as promised by Hamas. Seeing what ISIS do to their fellow muslims imagine what ISIS, let alone Hamas, would do, if Israel just opened up its borders and allowed free movement in and out. So its a waste of time just saying Israel are the baddies and everything will be fine if they just stop doing bad stuff. Acknowledging that as a reality probably makes you a Zionist apologist, and the name calling and pointless arguments about whose fault it is goes on.
it may be a lazy piece of conjecture to some, but i'm wondering, just musing, if....those on here that see is-it-real as the aggrieved party, or they have a right to retaliate, or they are both as bad as one other etc etc., do the posters with those types of opinions, also vote or side with the ukip, tories, nf, even mourn thatcher(ism), or worse etc.? just wondering, to see if they are even open to another's perspective?
Well I admired Thatcher, don't vote Ukip don't care for any parties currently. Having lived in the Middle East spent time in Lebanon, Iran, Israel, Saudi and others perhaps I understand it more than leftist, labour voting guardian readers
it may be a lazy piece of conjecture to some, but i'm wondering, just musing, if....those on here that see is-it-real as the aggrieved party, or they have a right to retaliate, or they are both as bad as one other etc etc., do the posters with those types of opinions, also vote or side with the ukip, tories, nf, even mourn thatcher(ism), or worse etc.? just wondering, to see if they are even open to another's perspective?
it may be a lazy piece of conjecture to some, but i'm wondering, just musing, if....those on here that see is-it-real as the aggrieved party, or they have a right to retaliate, or they are both as bad as one other etc etc., do the posters with those types of opinions, also vote or side with the ukip, tories, nf, even mourn thatcher(ism), or worse etc.? just wondering, to see if they are even open to another's perspective?
Based on the hyperbole you have used in this discussion I find it ironic that you should ask if other posters are open to other perspectives.
it may be a lazy piece of conjecture to some, but i'm wondering, just musing, if....those on here that see is-it-real as the aggrieved party, or they have a right to retaliate, or they are both as bad as one other etc etc., do the posters with those types of opinions, also vote or side with the ukip, tories, nf, even mourn thatcher(ism), or worse etc.? just wondering, to see if they are even open to another's perspective?
Based on the hyperbole you have used in this discussion I find it ironic that you should ask if other posters are open to other perspectives.
some issues seem soooo obvious to me, but hey, in my more circumspect pauses, i defer to "there is your truth, there is my truth, and there is the THE truth." i just feel very deeply for the most voiceless in our world, and so can get VERY passionate - my protest arrest record will testify to that, and arguably yes se8red, "hyberbolic", :>) huhhhhh, so i ask, claus jensen, dick tydeman, legend or luxuries?
Four young Palestinian boys were killed Wednesday when two explosions hit a jetty and beach where they were playing at the fishing port of Gaza City, an area that had been considered relatively safe from the intense Israeli bombing campaign of the past nine days.
An Israeli military spokesman, Motti Almoz, told Israel’s Channel 10 that Israeli forces had fired at “a target near the sea” on Wednesday and that the details were still under review.
Alon Ben-David, a senior military affairs journalist with extensive Israeli military sources, said information he had seen indicated that the military had identified the beach shack as belonging to Hamas and fired at it.
Mr. Ben-David speculated that the second blast had been aimed at the children running away, who might have been mistaken for militants. But he added that given the military’s technologically advanced surveillance equipment, “it is a little hard for me to understand this, because the images show that the figures are children.”
Four young Palestinian boys were killed Wednesday when two explosions hit a jetty and beach where they were playing at the fishing port of Gaza City, an area that had been considered relatively safe from the intense Israeli bombing campaign of the past nine days.
An Israeli military spokesman, Motti Almoz, told Israel’s Channel 10 that Israeli forces had fired at “a target near the sea” on Wednesday and that the details were still under review.
Alon Ben-David, a senior military affairs journalist with extensive Israeli military sources, said information he had seen indicated that the military had identified the beach shack as belonging to Hamas and fired at it.
Mr. Ben-David speculated that the second blast had been aimed at the children running away, who might have been mistaken for militants. But he added that given the military’s technologically advanced surveillance equipment, “it is a little hard for me to understand this, because the images show that the figures are children.”
'Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).
Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.'
'Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).
Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.'
is-it-real and you "god"stone cannot use what is clearly pulpit rhetoric, in defending the land grabbing ethnic cleanse of the 1948 nakba/holocaust for the palestinians, and the systematic 24/7 zionist oppression of the past 66 years in what remains of palestine. again, anyone on the fence, or defending the zionists, i implore you (all) to look at the pre-1948 map of palestine, then a year later in 1949, in 1967, and as a result of the ongoing systematic land grab. all that is left for the palestinians is a pathetic patchwork without any ability to develop infrastructure. almost everyone on cl would become agitated and rise up facing anything like that level of daily oppression after 90% off your country was invaded, your homes stolen, many of your relatives murdered, the majority of the rest fleeing.
is-it-real will only begin to wake up if a) they are ostracized more widely, the boycott/divest campaign continues to grow, and they are excluded from events, ie. in sport - they do not like public shaming. b) the u.s. veto at the united nations is circumnavigated. c) the immense flow of funds ceases from the u.s. government, and even more from u.s. zionists. we have a chance with a), b) is possible, c) is a non-starter imo.
Comments
I maintain that the only way that you will solve the Arab Israeli conflict (and even then it's a slim one) is to actually give the Palestinians something worth living for. That means a viable economy with jobs, along with an end to landgrabbing. The problem is that right now I think you would find a lot of people agree to thar in Palestine, but so many people have lost their families that the bloodlust will continue to be there for some and they will keep firing rockets, almost like a real IRA. Then you have it all kicking off again.
Every rocket and missile fired today makes a long run peace process more and more unbrokerable. If Hamas agree to a ceasefire checkpoints will have to be stepped up severalfold because rather than these rockets which are (although scary, sure) 99.99% ineffective in killing people, without them individuals who hate Israel who previously fired rockets sponsored by the state now have to go to other methods to kill their enemy, such as car bombs and assassinations, and without a complete lockdown they are hard to prevent.
Any peace would, it goes without saying, be a very uneasy one. An economy, security, suffrage, self determination and something to live for would go some way to help this.
Could it be the jewel in Blair's crown? Say what you like about the man, he is hated for his foreign interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. What about Bosnia, sierra leonne and the northern Ireland peace process? His ego if anything would push him to broker a deal asap.
Also, for those that are saying Hamas didn't agree to the ceasefire deal - well that was the ceasefire deal proposed by Israel's friends in Turkey this week that is designed to paint Israel in a positive light for being the side to back down initially. In fact, Hamas is in favour of a truce and ceasefire, to the conditions that were agreed previously with US and international community backing. Israel pulled out of agreeing to it after months of delays when Palestine signed on to various UN treaties and were officially recognised as a state. If Israel agreed to the terms previously agreed then Hamas back a ceasefire! So don't fall for the short termist view of evaluating their willingness based on the last week...
This weeks proposed truce was all a ruse to curry favour again with the international community who had begun to vocally criticise Israel more and more loudly. It does feel like the tide is slowly turning but how many more civilians will die in the meantime?
The oppressed shot a mate of mine and his mum
Oh - and it killed two fewer people than the Omargh Bomb - also planted by Irishmen, who gave false warnings so that people were actually being diverted to where the car bomb was.
But you stick by your made up narrow minded views of History.
i have to say i verge on agreeing with this comment. israel is always portrayed the villain but it goes both ways. they to have innocents maimed and killed by the palestinians but it's always deemed israels fault, not sure i can agree with that!
Would you rather be an Israeli or a Palestinian right now?
sorry for not agreeing with you but perhaps you should do some reading yourself i'm only putting forward a point you can disagree without resorting to being an arsehole!
Father could not get financial help from Hamas for his car crash injuries because injuries were not directly as a result of fighting, says all you need to know about Hamas using the inhabitants as pawns. They would rather spend the money that's not in their Swiss bank accounts to fire off rockets to ensure the conflict carried on, than ease the suffering of those they claim to represent. Surely even a bad settlement from the Palestinian perspective, which gives peace, is better than the alternative, like the man driven to laying down in front of the troops pleading them to shoot him dead.
Would be good if the Palestinians made a film showing the perspective of moderate Israelis who don't support illegal settlements and simply believe that if they don't build defended barriers they will be annihilated, as promised by Hamas. Seeing what ISIS do to their fellow muslims imagine what ISIS, let alone Hamas, would do, if Israel just opened up its borders and allowed free movement in and out. So its a waste of time just saying Israel are the baddies and everything will be fine if they just stop doing bad stuff. Acknowledging that as a reality probably makes you a Zionist apologist, and the name calling and pointless arguments about whose fault it is goes on.
Having lived in the Middle East spent time in Lebanon, Iran, Israel, Saudi and others perhaps I understand it more than leftist, labour voting guardian readers
An Israeli military spokesman, Motti Almoz, told Israel’s Channel 10 that Israeli forces had fired at “a target near the sea” on Wednesday and that the details were still under review.
Alon Ben-David, a senior military affairs journalist with extensive Israeli military sources, said information he had seen indicated that the military had identified the beach shack as belonging to Hamas and fired at it.
Mr. Ben-David speculated that the second blast had been aimed at the children running away, who might have been mistaken for militants. But he added that given the military’s technologically advanced surveillance equipment, “it is a little hard for me to understand this, because the images show that the figures are children.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-beach-explosion-kills-children.html?_r=1
Have to say this is indefensible for me.
North Korea have concentration camps and yet played in the 2010 World Cup finals!
Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas
Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.'