More optimistic now than when we were first linked with him. Lad clearly has talent. Now come on Tony, knuckle down fella and give yourself a decent career.
It's always good to be able to ease new players into the team without putting too much pressure on them, perhaps from the bench, but I expect that Tony Watt may start on Saturday. At least he's had two weeks training with the squad, which is rather more than the two days that poor old Marvellous Marvin got prior the start of last season at Bournemouth.
Tony's obviously had a few problems over the last couple of years but he was only 21 last month and most of us can do daft things when we're young. Hopefully the joy of "getting out of Belgium" (as he put it) will help him to settle down in London and fulfil his potential.
As Lennie Lawrence used to say, it's always good to have a Scotsman in the team. We've had some excellent ones over the years, going back (in my time) to Alan Campbell and, more recently, people like Mark Reid, Walshy and Jimmy Melrose. I've always admired their determination and fighting spirit.
It's always good to be able to ease new players into the team without putting too much pressure on them, perhaps from the bench, but I expect that Tony Watt may start on Saturday. At least he's had two weeks training with the squad, which is rather more than the two days that poor old Marvellous Marvin got prior the start of last season at Bournemouth.
Tony's obviously had a few problems over the last couple of years but he was only 21 last month and most of us can do daft things when we're young. Hopefully the joy of "getting out of Belgium" (as he put it) will help him to settle down in London and fulfil his potential.
As Lennie Lawrence used to say, it's always good to have a Scotsman in the team. We've had some excellent ones over the years, going back (in my time) to Alan Campbell and, more recently, people like Mark Reid, Walshy and Jimmy Melrose. I've always admired their determination and fighting spirit.
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
Could be dependent upon what is most expedient tax wise, don't forget transfers will attract all sorts of tax implications.
Hopefully this works out. My God, we need a bright light from somewhere at the moment. He looks like he could do the business but we've had so many knock backs over the past couple of years that it's difficult to get too enthusiastic.
Roll on Saturday to get this going. I hope he plays.
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
Could be dependent upon what is most expedient tax wise, don't forget transfers will attract all sorts of tax implications.
There are fairly tight financial regs in the Jupiler league because a few clubs went bust a few years back. I saw somewhere that we may have paid 700k for Tucudean and I would expect the same for this guy.
You divide by the length of the contract to get the impact on our accounts so that's £500k per year for Vetokele and £500k per year for Watt and Tucudean combined. Or £1m a year for a brand new strike force.
If Watt, Vetokele and Tucudean work for the second half of the season then that's a bargain but if it doesn't work then it's penny pinching nonsense!
an Ode from Soapboxsam with help from Mr Kipling (not the cake man)
IF you can keep you head when all charlton fans around you are losing theirs, and blaming it on you IF you trust yourself when all Charlton fans doubt you, but make allowances for their doubting too IF you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think but not make thoughts your aim IF you meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two impostors just the same IF you can take a Poor pass, and control that ball with skill, go one on one with the keeper,and bury it for the kill IF you can then fill the next minutes running around the ground, yours is the earth and everything that's in it.
And what is More TONY WATT, you will be a Man My son, plus a effing legend to the covered end choir.
Just emailed an old work colleague who was a mad (aren't they all) Celtic fan, about Watt. He raved about him and was sorry to see him go. He fell out with Lennon and then opened his mouth to the press. He said if he can keep his head down we've got a bargain.
Just emailed an old work colleague who was a mad (aren't they all) Celtic fan, about Watt. He raved about him and was sorry to see him go. He fell out with Lennon and then opened his mouth to the press. He said if he can keep his head down we've got a bargain.
Anyone that falls out with Lennon is alright by me.
He looks miles better than Church & Tucadean. Let's hope he produces, what he's capable of.
From what i can tell, he's only played one 90 minute game (a Europa league game in early December) in the past 2 months. Can't see how he'll be match fit so might need to be introduced off the bench at first.
From what i can tell, he's only played one 90 minute game (a Europa league game in early December) in the past 2 months. Can't see how he'll be match fit so might need to be introduced off the bench at first.
But we never play 90 minutes, so he should be alright
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
Could be dependent upon what is most expedient tax wise, don't forget transfers will attract all sorts of tax implications.
There are fairly tight financial regs in the Jupiler league because a few clubs went bust a few years back. I saw somewhere that we may have paid 700k for Tucudean and I would expect the same for this guy.
You divide by the length of the contract to get the impact on our accounts so that's £500k per year for Vetokele and £500k per year for Watt and Tucudean combined. Or £1m a year for a brand new strike force.
If Watt, Vetokele and Tucudean work for the second half of the season then that's a bargain but if it doesn't work then it's penny pinching nonsense!
This is where the whole network thing becomes tricky; transfer fees inside the network. I would love to get to the bottom of whether they actually exist, and if so how they are calculated, and by whom.
Actually your beloved Transfermarkt tells us that Standard paid Dinamo €1m for George. But then when they found out he was useless, they loaned him back to Dinamo for the season and apparently got €150k from Dinamo for that loan. Immediately he returned, Standard "sold" him to us for €800k.
Now based on his performances I seriously doubt Standard would have got anything like €800k for him on the open market. Good grief, we got less than that for YK!! So - if Transfermarkt is accurate, which is a question - there is an argument that we have been used to bale out Standard for their mistake.
This may not be the whole story, we really don't understand how it works, and it would be good to find out. I would remind you that when you were on the Trust board you thought all these issues were irrelevant so i'm glad you've come round.
My tentative conclusion is that movements of players within the network ought to be on a loan basis only, at least for the first season. Otherwise some clubs are bailing out the mistakes of others. Tucudean was clearly a big mistake. His valuation is laughable.
TW has been watching us from the stands and around the club for a while now. I reckon he knows he is joining a club where the fans want him to do well.
Just like Benty just like YK
But you must be able to back up your effort with ability and deliver for the team - otherwise we fans become fickle (quite rightly IMHO)
I got a feelin, that this Watts gonna be a good good Watt. He must see that he can totally revive his career with us and the sky is the limit.
Can see him playing against BHAFC and scoring - then never looking back.
Staying with the musical themed puns.......he needs to know that Watt you give is Watt you get, and that will be a Start !
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
Could be dependent upon what is most expedient tax wise, don't forget transfers will attract all sorts of tax implications.
There are fairly tight financial regs in the Jupiler league because a few clubs went bust a few years back. I saw somewhere that we may have paid 700k for Tucudean and I would expect the same for this guy.
You divide by the length of the contract to get the impact on our accounts so that's £500k per year for Vetokele and £500k per year for Watt and Tucudean combined. Or £1m a year for a brand new strike force.
If Watt, Vetokele and Tucudean work for the second half of the season then that's a bargain but if it doesn't work then it's penny pinching nonsense!
This is where the whole network thing becomes tricky; transfer fees inside the network. I would love to get to the bottom of whether they actually exist, and if so how they are calculated, and by whom.
Actually your beloved Transfermarkt tells us that Standard paid Dinamo €1m for George. But then when they found out he was useless, they loaned him back to Dinamo for the season and apparently got €150k from Dinamo for that loan. Immediately he returned, Standard "sold" him to us for €800k.
Now based on his performances I seriously doubt Standard would have got anything like €800k for him on the open market. Good grief, we got less than that for YK!! So - if Transfermarkt is accurate, which is a question - there is an argument that we have been used to bale out Standard for their mistake.
This may not be the whole story, we really don't understand how it works, and it would be good to find out. I would remind you that when you were on the Trust board you thought all these issues were irrelevant so i'm glad you've come round.
My tentative conclusion is that movements of players within the network ought to be on a loan basis only, at least for the first season. Otherwise some clubs are bailing out the mistakes of others. Tucudean was clearly a big mistake. His valuation is laughable.
Last point first: why? The player wants an incentive to move so Watt and Tucudean both get longer term deals. If Watt's performance kicks in then he will be worth a fortune. Why should Liege get that benefit when we are adding value / taking the risk?
Player movements irrelevant? I don't think so! Koc and Nego and the rest were small beer and were off somewhere else after six months. Piotr Parsysek was another 600k or so over five years, so again small beer. But the issue is that according to rumour and transfermarkt we have paid £1-1.5m for Tucudean and Watt. Who sets the fee?
At the moment it makes Liege look very good at selling players which helps Staprix if they are looking to sell them on. I can't find belgian rules or Liege numbers so can't tell how this helps their compliance. Perhaps a Liege fan can assist?
The upside is that those two and Vetokele are all in their early twenties - if two of them kick on then we have the makings of a decent and valuable strikeforce. The optimum value of players is aged 24-25 so maybe we see cash back in a couple of years?
Overall it looks like two things in play: M.Duchatelet wants to sweat the assets(!) and find maximum value from players. He also wants to reduce (not eliminate) dependency on agents and other clubs. We were clearly in for Delort but when they wouldn't close a deal and moved the price up M.Duchatelet said no thanks.
You and I had very different perspectives on the Kermorgant episode but I saw yesterday Gérard playing the same duplicitous game. He gives an interview stating how he would have signed a deal with Liverpool but they kept him waiting until November. So the club which made him as a player and multi millionaire are left in the cold as he goes to sunnier climbs.
Developing the academy and bringing players in from other network clubs are two ways to stop us being stiffed by agents and other clubs. At the same time I want us to go out this month and over the summer on the open market. Liege rejects and up and coming network players is not enough to develop our squad. But it does help to get in new blood in time for Saturday.
And player values / network transfers? I have posted before that I expect M.Duchatelet and his team use a far more sophisticated methodology than transfermarkt - something that evaluates squad value every month and whether the coach is adding value or not. This isn't just about results and league position.
If it was then we would have seen a lot more loan players arriving Oct-dec. No, we saw Coquelin who might be a free agent in the summer. I would suggest that this is the very opposite end of the spectrum to Redknapp, Pardew and Venables. It's about club and player development not overnight success and fat fees / bonusses. Not to mention a succession of clubs hemorrhaging cash...Spurs, Portsmouth, QPR etc.
As we have signed him rather than loaned him, im assuming that any outstanding moneys owed to Celtic now sit at our door?
what outstanding monies? if there were clauses in the move to SL such as appearances goals etc then they would have disappeared and if there was a sell on clause I expect we have paid less than Leige did and so there is no sell on fee
we will never know what fee we paid for him. If SL really paid £1.2 million for him, there is no way RD would shuffle him across at no cost. The fee will depend upon where RD wants his money (or debt) to be.
Could be dependent upon what is most expedient tax wise, don't forget transfers will attract all sorts of tax implications.
There are fairly tight financial regs in the Jupiler league because a few clubs went bust a few years back. I saw somewhere that we may have paid 700k for Tucudean and I would expect the same for this guy.
You divide by the length of the contract to get the impact on our accounts so that's £500k per year for Vetokele and £500k per year for Watt and Tucudean combined. Or £1m a year for a brand new strike force.
If Watt, Vetokele and Tucudean work for the second half of the season then that's a bargain but if it doesn't work then it's penny pinching nonsense!
This is where the whole network thing becomes tricky; transfer fees inside the network. I would love to get to the bottom of whether they actually exist, and if so how they are calculated, and by whom.
Actually your beloved Transfermarkt tells us that Standard paid Dinamo €1m for George. But then when they found out he was useless, they loaned him back to Dinamo for the season and apparently got €150k from Dinamo for that loan. Immediately he returned, Standard "sold" him to us for €800k.
Now based on his performances I seriously doubt Standard would have got anything like €800k for him on the open market. Good grief, we got less than that for YK!! So - if Transfermarkt is accurate, which is a question - there is an argument that we have been used to bale out Standard for their mistake.
This may not be the whole story, we really don't understand how it works, and it would be good to find out. I would remind you that when you were on the Trust board you thought all these issues were irrelevant so i'm glad you've come round.
My tentative conclusion is that movements of players within the network ought to be on a loan basis only, at least for the first season. Otherwise some clubs are bailing out the mistakes of others. Tucudean was clearly a big mistake. His valuation is laughable.
You ask if fees between network Clubs actually exist. I'm sure I'm right in saying that although reported as undisclosed that actual fees are reported to the relevant authorities, FL or FA, and proof that fees reported have been paid provided otherwise how can Clubs be accessed under FFP regs. I'm sure someone like the Club Secretary would know for sure.
Selling YK for less than buying Tucudean is like selling a gold bar to buy a yorkie bar..... but I wouldn't put it past Rolands scouting team, to put it nicely they have got nothing right from within the network, their judgement of talent is hideous ... but you try and try again until it works :-)
Selling YK for less than buying Tucudean is like selling a gold bar to buy a yorkie bar..... but I wouldn't put it past Rolands scouting team, to put it nicely they have got nothing right from within the network, their judgement of talent is hideous ... but you try and try again until it works :-)
Selling YK for less than buying Tucudean is like selling a gold bar to buy a yorkie bar..... but I wouldn't put it past Rolands scouting team, to put it nicely they have got nothing right from within the network, their judgement of talent is hideous ... but you try and try again until it works :-)
And that for me is the key issue.
A club can have any recruitment model it likes, big fees, no fees, loans, old players, young players, network players, etc etc but what will may the difference and "add value" (sic) and improve the team's performance is getting better players.
Polish Pete wasn't better than Yann. Doesn't matter what games Yann did or didn't play. Polish Pete was an expensive mistake. £600k wasted on someone who played a few minutes. Some can pretend that it is a trivial sum and we can write it off over a few years but what it meant was we couldn't spend £600k (and the wages) on someone else, someone better. And so the sale of Stephens and Yann brought us no benefit as the money was wasted. Meanwhile, back room admin staff were being made redundant so yes the money does matter to CAFC.
We appear to be too reliant on whoever scouts and buys players for Liege. They paid £1.2m for Watt and have bombed him out 6 months later. They paid money for Tuchedean and have bombed him out. Ditto Reza. Ditto Nego. I'm not confident that they are getting value for Roland's money although I still think Watt could be a success with CAFC.
And before people say "Igor and JBG" have been a success yes they have and neither came from the network. Igor had worked with Bob before.
Selling YK for less than buying Tucudean is like selling a gold bar to buy a yorkie bar..... but I wouldn't put it past Rolands scouting team, to put it nicely they have got nothing right from within the network, their judgement of talent is hideous ... but you try and try again until it works :-)
Ben haim ?
If you throw enough shit some of it will stick. Not quite what that analogy is intended for but you get my drift.
Comments
Lad clearly has talent. Now come on Tony, knuckle down fella and give yourself a decent career.
Tony's obviously had a few problems over the last couple of years but he was only 21 last month and most of us can do daft things when we're young. Hopefully the joy of "getting out of Belgium" (as he put it) will help him to settle down in London and fulfil his potential.
As Lennie Lawrence used to say, it's always good to have a Scotsman in the team. We've had some excellent ones over the years, going back (in my time) to Alan Campbell and, more recently, people like Mark Reid, Walshy and Jimmy Melrose. I've always admired their determination and fighting spirit.
Roll on Saturday to get this going. I hope he plays.
You divide by the length of the contract to get the impact on our accounts so that's £500k per year for Vetokele and £500k per year for Watt and Tucudean combined. Or £1m a year for a brand new strike force.
If Watt, Vetokele and Tucudean work for the second half of the season then that's a bargain but if it doesn't work then it's penny pinching nonsense!
an Ode from Soapboxsam with help from Mr Kipling (not the cake man)
IF you can keep you head when all charlton fans around you are losing theirs, and blaming it on you
IF you trust yourself when all Charlton fans doubt you, but make allowances for their doubting too
IF you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think but not make thoughts your aim
IF you meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two impostors just the same
IF you can take a Poor pass, and control that ball with skill, go one on one with the keeper,and bury it for the kill
IF you can then fill the next minutes running around the ground, yours is the earth and everything that's in it.
And what is More TONY WATT, you will be a Man My son, plus a effing legend to the covered end choir.
He looks miles better than Church & Tucadean. Let's hope he produces, what he's capable of.
Actually your beloved Transfermarkt tells us that Standard paid Dinamo €1m for George. But then when they found out he was useless, they loaned him back to Dinamo for the season and apparently got €150k from Dinamo for that loan. Immediately he returned, Standard "sold" him to us for €800k.
Now based on his performances I seriously doubt Standard would have got anything like €800k for him on the open market. Good grief, we got less than that for YK!! So - if Transfermarkt is accurate, which is a question - there is an argument that we have been used to bale out Standard for their mistake.
This may not be the whole story, we really don't understand how it works, and it would be good to find out. I would remind you that when you were on the Trust board you thought all these issues were irrelevant so i'm glad you've come round.
My tentative conclusion is that movements of players within the network ought to be on a loan basis only, at least for the first season. Otherwise some clubs are bailing out the mistakes of others. Tucudean was clearly a big mistake. His valuation is laughable.
I reckon he knows he is joining a club where the fans want him to do well.
Just like Benty
just like YK
But you must be able to back up your effort with ability and deliver for the team - otherwise we fans become fickle (quite rightly IMHO)
I got a feelin, that this Watts gonna be a good good Watt.
He must see that he can totally revive his career with us and the sky is the limit.
Can see him playing against BHAFC and scoring - then never looking back.
Staying with the musical themed puns.......he needs to know that Watt you give is Watt you get, and that will be a Start !
Player movements irrelevant? I don't think so! Koc and Nego and the rest were small beer and were off somewhere else after six months. Piotr Parsysek was another 600k or so over five years, so again small beer.
But the issue is that according to rumour and transfermarkt we have paid £1-1.5m for Tucudean and Watt. Who sets the fee?
At the moment it makes Liege look very good at selling players which helps Staprix if they are looking to sell them on. I can't find belgian rules or Liege numbers so can't tell how this helps their compliance. Perhaps a Liege fan can assist?
The upside is that those two and Vetokele are all in their early twenties - if two of them kick on then we have the makings of a decent and valuable strikeforce. The optimum value of players is aged 24-25 so maybe we see cash back in a couple of years?
Overall it looks like two things in play: M.Duchatelet wants to sweat the assets(!) and find maximum value from players. He also wants to reduce (not eliminate) dependency on agents and other clubs. We were clearly in for Delort but when they wouldn't close a deal and moved the price up M.Duchatelet said no thanks.
You and I had very different perspectives on the Kermorgant episode but I saw yesterday Gérard playing the same duplicitous game. He gives an interview stating how he would have signed a deal with Liverpool but they kept him waiting until November. So the club which made him as a player and multi millionaire are left in the cold as he goes to sunnier climbs.
Developing the academy and bringing players in from other network clubs are two ways to stop us being stiffed by agents and other clubs. At the same time I want us to go out this month and over the summer on the open market. Liege rejects and up and coming network players is not enough to develop our squad. But it does help to get in new blood in time for Saturday.
And player values / network transfers? I have posted before that I expect M.Duchatelet and his team use a far more sophisticated methodology than transfermarkt - something that evaluates squad value every month and whether the coach is adding value or not. This isn't just about results and league position.
If it was then we would have seen a lot more loan players arriving Oct-dec. No, we saw Coquelin who might be a free agent in the summer. I would suggest that this is the very opposite end of the spectrum to Redknapp, Pardew and Venables. It's about club and player development not overnight success and fat fees / bonusses. Not to mention a succession of clubs hemorrhaging cash...Spurs, Portsmouth, QPR etc.
A club can have any recruitment model it likes, big fees, no fees, loans, old players, young players, network players, etc etc but what will may the difference and "add value" (sic) and improve the team's performance is getting better players.
Polish Pete wasn't better than Yann. Doesn't matter what games Yann did or didn't play. Polish Pete was an expensive mistake. £600k wasted on someone who played a few minutes. Some can pretend that it is a trivial sum and we can write it off over a few years but what it meant was we couldn't spend £600k (and the wages) on someone else, someone better. And so the sale of Stephens and Yann brought us no benefit as the money was wasted. Meanwhile, back room admin staff were being made redundant so yes the money does matter to CAFC.
We appear to be too reliant on whoever scouts and buys players for Liege. They paid £1.2m for Watt and have bombed him out 6 months later. They paid money for Tuchedean and have bombed him out. Ditto Reza. Ditto Nego. I'm not confident that they are getting value for Roland's money although I still think Watt could be a success with CAFC.
And before people say "Igor and JBG" have been a success yes they have and neither came from the network. Igor had worked with Bob before.