mate you and me both, 9pm Thursday channel 4 and we will find out , educating east London, I thought the nthn one was hard to hear this one should be all pants on show and kmt
It's on at 9PM on C4 mate - populist sensationalist bollocks, absolutely pointless to watch it if you want any kind of honest insight into the situation.
Where is the Nepalese community in Greenwich mostly based? As a Greenwich borough resident I really struggle to believe that Nepalese is the second language in the borough.
The people who maintain the borough web site don't seem to be aware of this fact either.
Plumstead and Woolwich. And I 100% agree with it (trust me go to plumstead high street I used to live there) and they really are the nicest people ever.
I was in a Tesco store in Weybridge on bank holiday Monday and my son wanted the loo. So I asked a Tesco assistant on the shop floor where the toilets were, but she snapped back "I don't speak English, sorry" and walked off. "Ah, thanks very much" I said and went off to find another 'assistant'. It might be great that so many different languages are spoken here, but I don't think it unreasonable for newcomers settling and working here to speak English.
Are you sure they worked there ? I'd be pretty surprised if a major supermarket would employ someone on the working floor that literally couldn't speak English.
I assume you live in SE9. If that's the case, have you been in any of the shops in Eltham High Street? It's not uncommon to be served by someone with a very limited grasp of the English language. Or be standing in a queue and multiple conversations going on between staff and customers all in foreign languages.
I genuinely don't think I've ever been in a store of a major retailer, Eltham or otherwise, and felt like an employee with a customer facing role didn't have an adequate grasp of English to perform their job - if they're serving me in a shop I don't expect or need them to be able to translate the works of Shakespeare.
Lucky you, must shop in M&S. But why make such a childish comment about Shakespeare?
What I've taken from the last 20 minutes catching up with this thread is, many of those defending the English language seem to have a poor grasp of the English language!
I was in a Tesco store in Weybridge on bank holiday Monday and my son wanted the loo. So I asked a Tesco assistant on the shop floor where the toilets were, but she snapped back "I don't speak English, sorry" and walked off. "Ah, thanks very much" I said and went off to find another 'assistant'. It might be great that so many different languages are spoken here, but I don't think it unreasonable for newcomers settling and working here to speak English.
Are you sure they worked there ? I'd be pretty surprised if a major supermarket would employ someone on the working floor that literally couldn't speak English.
I assume you live in SE9. If that's the case, have you been in any of the shops in Eltham High Street? It's not uncommon to be served by someone with a very limited grasp of the English language. Or be standing in a queue and multiple conversations going on between staff and customers all in foreign languages.
I genuinely don't think I've ever been in a store of a major retailer, Eltham or otherwise, and felt like an employee with a customer facing role didn't have an adequate grasp of English to perform their job - if they're serving me in a shop I don't expect or need them to be able to translate the works of Shakespeare.
Lucky you, must shop in M&S. But why make such a childish comment about Shakespeare?
I took it as a jovial quip to bring a little light heartedness to the comment.
I'll take my life in my hands but I find foreign people whether they have a good grasp of English or not to be much better at customer service, especially waiting, than Brits.
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
Fair enough Len, does your outrage extend to the systematic rapes of thousands of children by white Catholic priests - including in the UK - and the deliberate cover up of this by the Catholic Church? Or is it only 'Pakistani' sex crimes that really get your outrage going?
Sorry if thus comes across all dreadfully "PC mafia" "left-wing" "illiberal liberal" but I find it so curious that right wing nutters (sure you don't mind this label since you love a bit of labelling yourself) work themselves into a fury over Muslim sex crimes but don't say a word about Father Brendan sodomising half the Choir before Sunday Mass.
Almost like there is a bit of a double standard at play, but I am sure that's not the case.
As a Roman Catholic myself the answer to your first question is an unequivoval "YES"
The historic actions (or to be more accurate inactions) of the Church are every bit as bad.
BUT here's the difference. It's been open season on Roman Catholics for a long time yet with the Rotherham issue, and it is you not me who referred to 'Muslim' sex crimes, I happen to think it is more complicated than that, there are still people seeking to close down debate.
Just want to say how much i enjoyed reading amongst the chuff some really well set-out, reasoned views of a few, particularly @PaddyP17 and @sirjohnhumphrey. Fascinating reading.
Its such a grey area. I think the trouble which so many people have trouble with is that things evolve. Somethings for the better, somethings for the worse. We now live in a generation where there is freedom of movement, it is why some 14m British people are living abroad. Can we with certainty say that the 1.5-2m Brits living in France and Spain are fluent in those languages? We all know that's not the case, particularly with the older generation, so we shouldn't get too hung up when we come across instances in London where we experience similar.
I work with a whole range of nationalities, we had some post-work drinks recently and out of 9 of us, only 2 of us were English. Great guys and girls, and I positively love the diversity that multi-culturism can bring. They all speak perfect English.
But that doesn't mean that those who praise multi-culturism are right, and those that don't, like @PeterGage are wrong. The problem with multi-culturism is it never fully spreads evenly, and while there is undoubtedly a large number which embrace it, it is still human nature to naturally be drawn to 'your own'. It brings familiarisation and softens the fear of change or the unknown.
To play devils advocate and supply a backing for @PeterGage argument, If multi-culturism works so well how comes in the same borough (i'll use Bexley as an example as it is a standard outer London borough) where you can have one primary school where the percentage of pupils with English not as a first language is 1%, yet a couple of miles down the road there is another where it is 69% 7 out of 10!! If that is the figures for somewhere like Bexley, what are they like for the inner London boroughs?
That is not multi-culturism working positively, that's an example of how despite how much people embrace change, there will always be an element of wanting familiarisation. And that is what ultimately brings about a whole range of issues that are very difficult to resolve, particularly when change communities become established, like there are in many parts of inner and outer London.
ps. i always though someone Eritean was from Erith !
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I ask you for a straight answer, and after swerving it for about three posts you wonder why I "niggle away"?
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I ask you for a straight answer, and after swerving it for about three posts you wonder why I "niggle away"?
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
I explained why I "swerved" it not that I think I did! It was because AFKA does not want such issues discussed and indeed he has reiterated that point above.
Half arsed answer?
What exactly am I supposed to do for Christ's sake? Give you their addresses and telephone numbers?
Have you ever managed to find somebody accountable in the public sector? You are a lucky man if you have. Anonymity is the middle name of officials. I've given you categories of people and you can add the press to that because journalists find things out but chose to say nothing.
What I've taken from the last 20 minutes catching up with this thread is, many of those defending the English language seem to have a poor grasp of the English language!
Nit picking, it's a forum. I've made a few grammatical errors doesn't mean I struggle to grasp the language. Infact posting on a forum and speaking are entirely different. I doubt most of the people who post on here speak the way they post. Which is what most peoples original posts were about, spoken language.
The thread is completely over the top now. How some of these essays have popped up is beyond me. I get quoted ten or so times for saying I'd prefer to hear English in England. How is it someone can't say something like that without someone pulling them up. In my eyes it is purely just a preference and not an offensive one, don't see the harm in saying it.
I wouldn't mind if someone were to just question someones opinion for general discussion but it's definetly just a 'my post is biggers than yours' thread now. So many attempts at belittling people.
Looking back at my original post it does seem a bit aggressive, but ultimately it's because I've always felt uncomfortable reading/hearing an English person be pro multicultural. It's not that there's anything wrong with being pro multicultural as there definitely isn't, it's just that I always get the impression that said English person is only doing it purely because they are afraid of coming across as a racist, not because they care about foreign people. That's based on what I've seen away from this thread though.
Reading through this thread it seems that most people have a deep affiliation to people with a foreign tongue through work or family, so I can understand some of the posts. My family are English, my girlfriend is, my friends are. I'm obviously going to prefer hearing English. If that's offensive to anyone then I think that's a bit sensitive.
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I ask you for a straight answer, and after swerving it for about three posts you wonder why I "niggle away"?
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
I explained why I "swerved" it not that I think I did! It was because AFKA does not want such issues discussed and indeed he has reiterated that point above.
Half arsed answer?
What exactly am I supposed to do for Christ's sake? Give you their addresses and telephone numbers?
Have you ever managed to find somebody accountable in the public sector? You are a lucky man if you have. Anonymity is the middle name of officials. I've given you categories of people and you can add the press to that because journalists find things out but chose to say nothing.
My last word.
Once again you have made totally unsubstantiated and rather unpleasant comments about an entire sector covering millions of dedicated and hardworking people.
Sorry but you are just plain wrong when you say people in the public sector are not accountable.All the NHS, Teaching, Police, Fire service staff, Soldiers and civil servants I have ever met are overly accountable, micro- managed and stressed.
I think that it is time you cancelled your Daily Mail subscription!
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I ask you for a straight answer, and after swerving it for about three posts you wonder why I "niggle away"?
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
I explained why I "swerved" it not that I think I did! It was because AFKA does not want such issues discussed and indeed he has reiterated that point above.
Half arsed answer?
What exactly am I supposed to do for Christ's sake? Give you their addresses and telephone numbers?
Have you ever managed to find somebody accountable in the public sector? You are a lucky man if you have. Anonymity is the middle name of officials. I've given you categories of people and you can add the press to that because journalists find things out but chose to say nothing.
My last word.
Once again you have made totally unsubstantiated and rather unpleasant comments about an entire sector covering millions of dedicated and hardworking people.
Sorry but you are just plain wrong when you say people in the public sector are not accountable.All the NHS, Teaching, Police, Fire service staff, Soldiers and civil servants I have ever met are overly accountable, micro- managed and stressed.
I think that it is time you cancelled your Daily Mail subscription!
I don't subscribe to the Daily Mail.
Address the issues rather than attempting to make snide remarks ("usual suspects" being another) directed at those who hold a different opinion to you.
Public Sector workers may indeed be accountable to others within the organisation but they are not, without encountering an inordinate amount of obfuscation in my experience, generally accountable to the "public" they are meant to be serving.
I get the feeling Chizz would say it to someone who prefers white sugar over brown.
*Here comes the flag!!!!!
What Gary says essentially.
If someone from an ethnic minority considered my actions or words offensive then I would be mortified but white liberals trying to be thought police can do one.
[NB the following comment relates to Britain, where ethnic minority refers to those who are non-white British]
So you don't believe a "white" person can, in any way, represent the interests of ethnic minorities? (Speaking of "white" - is your definition of white here white British, or Caucasian, or anyone who has a shade of skin not dissimilar to your own?)
To go for an example by analogy (I hope this isn't a false equivalence), I can't call out misogyny because I'm male, or class discrimination because my parents are both tertiary sector workers and because I'm of a private school education (and depending on your views there, attend a Russell Group university possibly directly because of this)?
Answered above before I saw this.
In summary it depends on the perceived motivation of the accuser as to whether it gets credence or not.
Unlike many of the PC Lobby I believe in free speech and debate.
Who are they Len - just tell me - who are they... ;-)
Reluctant to answer for fear of dragging the thread away from topic but in essence faceless officials in local authorities, as exemplified by recent events, and anybody who seeks to stifle legitimate debate.
Ah - those equally famous "faceless" officials that the right wing press love to talk about, that no-body actually knows, because actually they don't exist except in the mind of frothers...
OK the cowardly scum in politics, social services, schools, the police and other agencies who did not speak out about child rape for years and years by what even the BBC describes as men of "mainly Pakistani heritage" because they did not want to be seen as racist.
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I ask you for a straight answer, and after swerving it for about three posts you wonder why I "niggle away"?
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
I explained why I "swerved" it not that I think I did! It was because AFKA does not want such issues discussed and indeed he has reiterated that point above.
Half arsed answer?
What exactly am I supposed to do for Christ's sake? Give you their addresses and telephone numbers?
Have you ever managed to find somebody accountable in the public sector? You are a lucky man if you have. Anonymity is the middle name of officials. I've given you categories of people and you can add the press to that because journalists find things out but chose to say nothing.
My last word.
Once again you have made totally unsubstantiated and rather unpleasant comments about an entire sector covering millions of dedicated and hardworking people.
Sorry but you are just plain wrong when you say people in the public sector are not accountable.All the NHS, Teaching, Police, Fire service staff, Soldiers and civil servants I have ever met are overly accountable, micro- managed and stressed.
I think that it is time you cancelled your Daily Mail subscription!
I don't subscribe to the Daily Mail.
Address the issues rather than attempting to make snide remarks ("usual suspects" being another) directed at those who hold a different opinion to you.
Public Sector workers may indeed be accountable to others within the organisation but they are not, without encountering an inordinate amount of obfuscation in my experience, generally accountable to the "public" they are meant to be serving.
That's simply not true re the public sector. You show your totall ignorance and that your opinion is just hashed up venom. Incidentally your previous posts are full of comments about the " PC brigade " etc which is a tad disrespectfull of others opinions.
As for the comments about snide remarks, I will take that as a compliment from the Master. A fare few of your comments are sanctimonious, hypocritical, bigoted, illogogical, passive- aggressive rants.
You would like the Mail incidentally. Could have been written for you.
Comments
We know about Rotherham but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar.
I did not want to be so explicit out of respect for AFKA's wishes expressed elsewhere but you keep niggling away.
Let me ask you a question: What's more important the sensitivities of Pakistanis or preventing children being raped?
I know what I think.
I often change buses in Woolwich so am familiar with the African queue.
Sorry if thus comes across all dreadfully "PC mafia" "left-wing" "illiberal liberal" but I find it so curious that right wing nutters (sure you don't mind this label since you love a bit of labelling yourself) work themselves into a fury over Muslim sex crimes but don't say a word about Father Brendan sodomising half the Choir before Sunday Mass.
Almost like there is a bit of a double standard at play, but I am sure that's not the case.
As a Roman Catholic myself the answer to your first question is an unequivoval "YES"
The historic actions (or to be more accurate inactions) of the Church are every bit as bad.
BUT here's the difference. It's been open season on Roman Catholics for a long time yet with the Rotherham issue, and it is you not me who referred to 'Muslim' sex crimes, I happen to think it is more complicated than that, there are still people seeking to close down debate.
Just want to say how much i enjoyed reading amongst the chuff some really well set-out, reasoned views of a few, particularly @PaddyP17 and @sirjohnhumphrey. Fascinating reading.
Its such a grey area. I think the trouble which so many people have trouble with is that things evolve. Somethings for the better, somethings for the worse. We now live in a generation where there is freedom of movement, it is why some 14m British people are living abroad. Can we with certainty say that the 1.5-2m Brits living in France and Spain are fluent in those languages? We all know that's not the case, particularly with the older generation, so we shouldn't get too hung up when we come across instances in London where we experience similar.
I work with a whole range of nationalities, we had some post-work drinks recently and out of 9 of us, only 2 of us were English. Great guys and girls, and I positively love the diversity that multi-culturism can bring. They all speak perfect English.
But that doesn't mean that those who praise multi-culturism are right, and those that don't, like @PeterGage are wrong. The problem with multi-culturism is it never fully spreads evenly, and while there is undoubtedly a large number which embrace it, it is still human nature to naturally be drawn to 'your own'. It brings familiarisation and softens the fear of change or the unknown.
To play devils advocate and supply a backing for @PeterGage argument, If multi-culturism works so well how comes in the same borough (i'll use Bexley as an example as it is a standard outer London borough) where you can have one primary school where the percentage of pupils with English not as a first language is 1%, yet a couple of miles down the road there is another where it is 69% 7 out of 10!! If that is the figures for somewhere like Bexley, what are they like for the inner London boroughs?
That is not multi-culturism working positively, that's an example of how despite how much people embrace change, there will always be an element of wanting familiarisation. And that is what ultimately brings about a whole range of issues that are very difficult to resolve, particularly when change communities become established, like there are in many parts of inner and outer London.
ps. i always though someone Eritean was from Erith !
And then, after giving a half arsed answer you feel you have to add an unfounded - "but there are plenty of other areas where, at the least, there are strong suspicions of similar".
In answer to your question, I am firmly in the camp of preventing young people and children being raped and abused.
Half arsed answer?
What exactly am I supposed to do for Christ's sake? Give you their addresses and telephone numbers?
Have you ever managed to find somebody accountable in the public sector? You are a lucky man if you have. Anonymity is the middle name of officials. I've given you categories of people and you can add the press to that because journalists find things out but chose to say nothing.
My last word.
The thread is completely over the top now. How some of these essays have popped up is beyond me. I get quoted ten or so times for saying I'd prefer to hear English in England. How is it someone can't say something like that without someone pulling them up. In my eyes it is purely just a preference and not an offensive one, don't see the harm in saying it.
I wouldn't mind if someone were to just question someones opinion for general discussion but it's definetly just a 'my post is biggers than yours' thread now. So many attempts at belittling people.
Looking back at my original post it does seem a bit aggressive, but ultimately it's because I've always felt uncomfortable reading/hearing an English person be pro multicultural. It's not that there's anything wrong with being pro multicultural as there definitely isn't, it's just that I always get the impression that said English person is only doing it purely because they are afraid of coming across as a racist, not because they care about foreign people. That's based on what I've seen away from this thread though.
Reading through this thread it seems that most people have a deep affiliation to people with a foreign tongue through work or family, so I can understand some of the posts. My family are English, my girlfriend is, my friends are. I'm obviously going to prefer hearing English. If that's offensive to anyone then I think that's a bit sensitive.
Sorry but you are just plain wrong when you say people in the public sector are not accountable.All the NHS, Teaching, Police, Fire service staff, Soldiers and civil servants I have ever met are overly accountable, micro- managed and stressed.
I think that it is time you cancelled your Daily Mail subscription!
Address the issues rather than attempting to make snide remarks ("usual suspects" being another) directed at those who hold a different opinion to you.
Public Sector workers may indeed be accountable to others within the organisation but they are not, without encountering an inordinate amount of obfuscation in my experience, generally accountable to the "public" they are meant to be serving.
As for the comments about snide remarks, I will take that as a compliment from the Master. A fare few of your comments are sanctimonious, hypocritical, bigoted, illogogical, passive- aggressive rants.
You would like the Mail incidentally. Could have been written for you.
The end!