Luke McCormick - captain of Plymouth argyle has killed two children drink driving, and has done his time and is back playing, there's not been even nearly this much uproar.
What he's done is disgusting and if I had it my way rapists and peado's would get the death penalty, but I don't.
If he was a plumber/electrician or something he'd be able to walk straight back on site and work, so why can't he as a footballer? I get both sides of the argument as, as a footballer he'd be in the public eye etc. The fact of the matter is though, that you cannot deny someone the right to work and his profession is a footballer.
Although the point you make is valid and without being picky, he would never work again as a plumber after what he did. CRB checks mean he wouldn't be able to, going in to people's houses ...
I firmly believe that an integral part of any justice is rehabilitation. People have the right to turn over a new leaf or face the consequences. However - and this is the rub - that doesn't mean that after release from jail you're rehabilitated. This guy has not shown one ounce of remorse, there has been little acceptance of what he did, and he is now acting as if nothing has happened. There has been no sincere and honest apology or an attempt to make some form of restitution.
Like it or not footballers are role models and young teenage boys are incredibly impressionable - Evans' behaviour sets a terrible example to teenage lads.
The FA need to get real. The ordinary man or woman in the stands finds this guy repellent and wants him to have no place in football. His behaviour has brought himself and by association his club and his sport into disrepute and his lack of remorse makes his deeds shows he should be ejected from the sport and told in no uncertain terms to go and be successful doing something else.
On a slightly different tangent, how is it that comedian Dapper Laughs makes a joke about rape and has his tour, tv show and whole comedy act cancelled (I'm not defending him).
Ched Evans actually rapes someone and is back playing football.
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Hand on heart...how many of you can say that EVERY single man/woman/maloney that you have slept with/shagged/made love to/fucked has given you 100% clear confirmation that they approve of your advances?
Thought not.
Dont bother with work tomorrow in that case, because basically you are a nonce.
I can honestly hand on heart say everyone I have been with have consented fully yes
and for you to come up with something like that makes me a bit worried about you
I'm Jordans Cousins post was ill-advised but I think the point he was trying to make was how many people have had a one night stand with someone they barely knew and could be 100% certain that the next morning the other person would not regret it or have second thoughts and deny having consented? As Ooaah observes, snogging ina club might be relevant but at the end of the day so what? If a woman kisses someone it does not mean she is willing to have penetrative sex and the idea that going to a room with someone equates to that, is false. It has never happened to me but I did know someone who found himself in that position once.
And I'm not saying that happened to Evans. A judge and jury who heard all the evidence found him guilty so he is a rapist. None of us on here had that "privilege" so opinions on what he/she did and why are not properly informed. By the same token, if he should be cleared on review he will never have been a rapist. That is hypothetical right now. The law says he is.
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
there's a difference between regret and implying that it wasn't consensual, ill advised or poorly worded it certainly is one of the most shocking things i have ever read on here
So if he gets a job in the city and became a successful banker and made millions no one would have a problem ..... or if he was just a clerk on a small salary that is ok where is the monetary cut off point
There is no monetary cut off. He would not get a regulated job in the City. Ever. It would be impossible. It's down to how a profession (or the Government) likes to see an image projected rather than the monetary worth of the job. Even the more odious city workers would draw the line at a convicted rapist. Where I worked, I would have been out with no prospect of a return as soon as the guilty verdict came in. All job applications for my erstwhile employer ask about pre-cons, whether for a job at the top or bottom. The names were then checked with the CRB (or DBS as it is now called). For my particular employer there was no such thing as a spent conviction. One strike and you were out - no second chances. Many roles, be it a postman or a Governor of the Bank of England would have exactly the same regime. It is of interest, is it not, that "Football Stewards, supervisors or managers of football stewards" feature as an occupation where an employer is entitled to ask for a DBS check but a footballer is not?
So if he gets a job in the city and became a successful banker and made millions no one would have a problem ..... or if he was just a clerk on a small salary that is ok where is the monetary cut off point
It is of interest, is it not, that "Football Stewards, supervisors or managers of football stewards" feature as an occupation where an employer is entitled to ask for a DBS check but a footballer is not?
And as Blackpool FC prove neither is owning a football club
the easiest thing for football to do is offer a licence for pro players within that licence put rules, being a convicted sex offender would be deemed as a breach of the code of conduct and have a compulsory loss of licence without chance to be re issued ,
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
Having never been to prison I don't know what jobs they do inside, but those jobs would be fine, for me prison is where rapists belong, for the rest of their days.
If we are going to let them out, to mix with society, we need to do as much as possible to ensure they have no role to play in the education and upbringing of our children, if that limits their choices of employment, tough.
Especially when there is no sign of remorse or guilt, if Ched can see no wrong with what he did, is there anything to suggest he won't do it again?
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
Having never been to prison I don't know what jobs they do inside, but those jobs would be fine, for me prison is where rapists belong, for the rest of their days.
If we are going to let them out, to mix with society, we need to do as much as possible to ensure they have no role to play in the education and upbringing of our children, if that limits their choices of employment, tough.
Especially when there is no sign of remorse or guilt, if Ched can see no wrong with what he did, is there anything to suggest he won't do it again?
But in that case you could potentially make a case for banning all ex cons from every job. Children will see and come into contact with plenty of people across a wide variety of jobs, is that any different?
On the remorse thing, if I was in a position of being convicted of something I was adamant I did not do, I wouldn't show remorse, otherwise that's surely an admission of guilt?
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
But there would be many other occupations where it would just not be entertained. Particularly for offences where the convictions never become "spent".
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
Having never been to prison I don't know what jobs they do inside, but those jobs would be fine, for me prison is where rapists belong, for the rest of their days.
If we are going to let them out, to mix with society, we need to do as much as possible to ensure they have no role to play in the education and upbringing of our children, if that limits their choices of employment, tough.
Especially when there is no sign of remorse or guilt, if Ched can see no wrong with what he did, is there anything to suggest he won't do it again?
But in that case you could potentially make a case for banning all ex cons from every job. Children will see and come into contact with plenty of people across a wide variety of jobs, is that any different?
On the remorse thing, if I was in a position of being convicted of something I was adamant I did not do, I wouldn't show remorse, otherwise that's surely an admission of guilt?
If you believe all crimes are as abhorrent as rape, then yes, there would be.
Of course I understand why he won't show remorse, the fact he still thinks what he did that night was OK just proves he should still be inside.
On a slightly different tangent, how is it that comedian Dapper Laughs makes a joke about rape and has his tour, tv show and whole comedy act cancelled (I'm not defending him).
Ched Evans actually rapes someone and is back playing football.
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
But there would be many other occupations where it would just not be entertained. Particularly for offences where the convictions never become "spent".
As I understand it you aren't banned from doing all of those jobs though, you just aren't exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act.
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
Having never been to prison I don't know what jobs they do inside, but those jobs would be fine, for me prison is where rapists belong, for the rest of their days.
If we are going to let them out, to mix with society, we need to do as much as possible to ensure they have no role to play in the education and upbringing of our children, if that limits their choices of employment, tough.
Especially when there is no sign of remorse or guilt, if Ched can see no wrong with what he did, is there anything to suggest he won't do it again?
But in that case you could potentially make a case for banning all ex cons from every job. Children will see and come into contact with plenty of people across a wide variety of jobs, is that any different?
On the remorse thing, if I was in a position of being convicted of something I was adamant I did not do, I wouldn't show remorse, otherwise that's surely an admission of guilt?
If you believe all crimes are as abhorrent as rape, then yes, there would be.
Of course I understand why he won't show remorse, the fact he still thinks what he did that night was OK just proves he should still be inside.
In that case you may as well imprison him for life, I'm sure there are quite a lot of people who would be happy with this. Personally I wouldn't, one of the few things I admire in this country is the justice system, it isn't perfect no system is. But what a lot are suggesting we do with rapists and other crimes of social disgust is very similar to how the justice systems of some countries in the Arab world that I'm sure a vast majority of the same people criticise and say is disgusting.
It's worth noting that no players have spoken out against Evans, and that the request for him to start training again was made by the PFA. That does rather suggest that the football world has no problem with him returning...
This is an interesting article in the Independent a few weeks back that's quite revealing about the man that Ched Evans is.
As for IJC's bizarre contribution to this thread, absolutely sex must always be consensual or it is rape. It's a very simple equation. People like to think that 'persuasion' or 'seduction' makes for grey areas but they don't. At the point at which you have sex if consent is in any way unclear then back off. This includes 'taking advantage' of drunk females, for the avoidance of doubt.
And it should be clear to anyone why Ched Evans was convicted. Whether MacDonald should have been too is entirely irrelevant. What Evans did was have sex with a girl who did not consent. End of.
I should imagine nearly all right-minded people are uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.
He should be allowed to take any job he so chooses, that is permitted by law and is offered to him. So yes he should be allowed to play professional football.
I will of course give him unmerciful abuse if he ever plays against Charlton and I would be gutted if we ever signed him or his ilk.
Goodnight :-)
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
Assuming the rules were changed, what other jobs would people not be allowed to return to? Or is it just professional sportspeople?
But there would be many other occupations where it would just not be entertained. Particularly for offences where the convictions never become "spent".
As I understand it you aren't banned from doing all of those jobs though, you just aren't exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act.
I think the list provides prospective employers with a list of occupations for which they are entitled to ask for a DBS check. I would guess that you can be pretty sure that if an employer goes to all the trouble of requesting such a check, (and jumping through the various bureaucratic hoops to do so), there's a pretty strong chance that anyone who comes back with a result won't get the job.
I think IJC is getting a bit of a hard time here - he's not implying that anyone here has deliberately raped anyone, or defended rapists, but he's suggesting that if anyone has ever had a one night stand with someone when completely shit faced, with them equally drunk, how can you be 100% sure that *when sober* they would have consented? That's an unsettling and sobering (pardon the pun) thought that anyone who's had drunk one night stands should contemplate.
(However - I think the details we know about the Evans case put his situation in a completely different category to the above, and it isn't really comparable. )
Comments
TV Presenter Charlie Webster has stepped down as Patron of Sheffield United
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30015701
And see how quickly football and Sheffield United forgets she existed
+1
However - and this is the rub - that doesn't mean that after release from jail you're rehabilitated. This guy has not shown one ounce of remorse, there has been little acceptance of what he did, and he is now acting as if nothing has happened.
There has been no sincere and honest apology or an attempt to make some form of restitution.
Like it or not footballers are role models and young teenage boys are incredibly impressionable - Evans' behaviour sets a terrible example to teenage lads.
The FA need to get real. The ordinary man or woman in the stands finds this guy repellent and wants him to have no place in football.
His behaviour has brought himself and by association his club and his sport into disrepute and his lack of remorse makes his deeds shows he should be ejected from the sport and told in no uncertain terms to go and be successful doing something else.
Ched Evans actually rapes someone and is back playing football.
Just goes to show how little morals football has.
I agree with you 100%, however in my opinion the law should be changed.
Being on the SOR should prohibit him from playing pro sport.
As for the post from Jordan's cousin, that's probably the most offensive thing I've read on the internet.
and for you to come up with something like that makes me a bit worried about you
And I'm not saying that happened to Evans. A judge and jury who heard all the evidence found him guilty so he is a rapist. None of us on here had that "privilege" so opinions on what he/she did and why are not properly informed. By the same token, if he should be cleared on review he will never have been a rapist. That is hypothetical right now. The law says he is.
He would not get a regulated job in the City. Ever. It would be impossible.
It's down to how a profession (or the Government) likes to see an image projected rather than the monetary worth of the job. Even the more odious city workers would draw the line at a convicted rapist.
Where I worked, I would have been out with no prospect of a return as soon as the guilty verdict came in. All job applications for my erstwhile employer ask about pre-cons, whether for a job at the top or bottom. The names were then checked with the CRB (or DBS as it is now called). For my particular employer there was no such thing as a spent conviction. One strike and you were out - no second chances.
Many roles, be it a postman or a Governor of the Bank of England would have exactly the same regime.
It is of interest, is it not, that "Football Stewards, supervisors or managers of football stewards" feature as an occupation where an employer is entitled to ask for a DBS check but a footballer is not?
And as Blackpool FC prove neither is owning a football club
If we are going to let them out, to mix with society, we need to do as much as possible to ensure they have no role to play in the education and upbringing of our children, if that limits their choices of employment, tough.
Especially when there is no sign of remorse or guilt, if Ched can see no wrong with what he did, is there anything to suggest he won't do it again?
On the remorse thing, if I was in a position of being convicted of something I was adamant I did not do, I wouldn't show remorse, otherwise that's surely an admission of guilt?
https://gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/349126/DBS_guide_to_eligibility_v6.pdf
But there would be many other occupations where it would just not be entertained. Particularly for offences where the convictions never become "spent".
Of course I understand why he won't show remorse, the fact he still thinks what he did that night was OK just proves he should still be inside.
It's worth noting that no players have spoken out against Evans, and that the request for him to start training again was made by the PFA. That does rather suggest that the football world has no problem with him returning...
As for IJC's bizarre contribution to this thread, absolutely sex must always be consensual or it is rape. It's a very simple equation. People like to think that 'persuasion' or 'seduction' makes for grey areas but they don't. At the point at which you have sex if consent is in any way unclear then back off. This includes 'taking advantage' of drunk females, for the avoidance of doubt.
And it should be clear to anyone why Ched Evans was convicted. Whether MacDonald should have been too is entirely irrelevant. What Evans did was have sex with a girl who did not consent. End of.
(However - I think the details we know about the Evans case put his situation in a completely different category to the above, and it isn't really comparable. )