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Kent CCC 2015

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  • Another inspection today at 12.45. I would suggest that everyone shakes hands and wishes each other a good winter 'cos there isn't going to be a result in this game. Even if they tried to contrive one.

    Match abandoned as a draw.

    In the immortal words of Porky Pig "Well that's all folks" for Kent this season.

    Still plenty of action at the two County grounds on Sunday:

    Beckenham - Blackheath play Northern in the final of the National Club Cricket Championship

    Canterbury - Finals Day for the Kent U19 ECB Championship featuring Bexley, Cowdrey, Broadstairs and Old Wilsonians


  • Bloody weather costs us a chance of 3rd place.
  • Final CC Batting Averages (8 innings at least - runs @ average of):

    Northeast 1168 @ 46.72
    Denly 1023 @ 40.92
    Key 857 @ 38.95
    Billings 447 @ 29.80
    Nash 229 @ 28.62
    Stevens 635 @ 27.60
    Harmison 247 @ 27.44
    Bell-Drummond 767 @ 26.44
    Haggett 345 @ 24.64
    Cowdrey 169 @ 18.77
    Claydon 88 @ 17.60
    Coles 277 @ 14.57
    Riley 97 @ 13.85
    Tredwell 107 @ 9.72
    Thomas 27 @ 3.37

    Final CC Bowling Averages (100 overs at least - wickets @ average of):

    Coles 67 @ 23.49
    Stevens 61 @ 20.36
    Haggett 28 @ 28.28
    Thomas 27 @ 27.96
    Hunn 18 @ 30.83
    Claydon 13 @ 40.00
    Tredwell 11 @ 40.27
    Riley 8 @ 53.00
  • Terrible season for the spinners
  • Final CC Batting Averages (8 innings at least - runs @ average of):

    Northeast 1168 @ 46.72
    Denly 1023 @ 40.92
    Key 857 @ 38.95
    Billings 447 @ 29.80
    Nash 229 @ 28.62
    Stevens 635 @ 27.60
    Harmison 247 @ 27.44
    Bell-Drummond 767 @ 26.44
    Haggett 345 @ 24.64
    Cowdrey 169 @ 18.77
    Claydon 88 @ 17.60
    Coles 277 @ 14.57
    Riley 97 @ 13.85
    Tredwell 107 @ 9.72
    Thomas 27 @ 3.37

    Final CC Bowling Averages (100 overs at least - wickets @ average of):

    Coles 67 @ 23.49
    Stevens 61 @ 20.36
    Haggett 28 @ 28.28
    Thomas 27 @ 27.96
    Hunn 18 @ 30.83
    Claydon 13 @ 40.00
    Tredwell 11 @ 40.27
    Riley 8 @ 53.00

    Only 3 batsman 30 plus averages!
  • Terrible season for the spinners

    I think that's a countrywide thing. We just don't produce wickets that suit them. Overall, there is only one spinner (22nd place - Jeetan Patel with 48 wickets from 15 matches) in the top 30.
  • kentred2 said:

    Final CC Batting Averages (8 innings at least - runs @ average of):

    Northeast 1168 @ 46.72
    Denly 1023 @ 40.92
    Key 857 @ 38.95
    Billings 447 @ 29.80
    Nash 229 @ 28.62
    Stevens 635 @ 27.60
    Harmison 247 @ 27.44
    Bell-Drummond 767 @ 26.44
    Haggett 345 @ 24.64
    Cowdrey 169 @ 18.77
    Claydon 88 @ 17.60
    Coles 277 @ 14.57
    Riley 97 @ 13.85
    Tredwell 107 @ 9.72
    Thomas 27 @ 3.37

    Final CC Bowling Averages (100 overs at least - wickets @ average of):

    Coles 67 @ 23.49
    Stevens 61 @ 20.36
    Haggett 28 @ 28.28
    Thomas 27 @ 27.96
    Hunn 18 @ 30.83
    Claydon 13 @ 40.00
    Tredwell 11 @ 40.27
    Riley 8 @ 53.00

    Only 3 batsman 30 plus averages!
    No it's pretty awful especially when you think that Key only turned up in mind and body for the last few games.

    There is actually a 4th - Sean Dickson - but he's only batted four times. But I think he will be a fixture in the side next season.
  • Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.
  • Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.

    Going back a bit I think Marcus Trescothic had an average in the twenties when first "spotted" as a future England possible.

    What's the saying? Form is temporary but class is permanent or something like that.

    D B-D has class.
  • Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.

    I think they see a lot of what people have seen for years - potential. His average in the T20 was 24.14 from 14 innings which, in the context of that version of the game, is OK. He actually averaged 54.4 from 7 innings in the 50 over game which is clearly very good.

    As I've said before with D B-D it is all about concentration and whether he has the inner strength to "bat and bat". That is what I think Dickson will bring to us but as the likes of Key, Denly and Northeast haven't been able to influence D B-D I'm not sure that England will either.
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  • LenGlover said:

    Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.

    Going back a bit I think Marcus Trescothic had an average in the twenties when first "spotted" as a future England possible.

    What's the saying? Form is temporary but class is permanent or something like that.

    D B-D has class.
    He does Len but, at some point, he has to convert that. Gower was relatively poor in the First Class game but still averaged 40. D B-D has now had 94 innings and only averages 32. He has a much bigger step up to make.
  • LenGlover said:

    Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.

    Going back a bit I think Marcus Trescothic had an average in the twenties when first "spotted" as a future England possible.

    What's the saying? Form is temporary but class is permanent or something like that.

    D B-D has class.
    He does Len but, at some point, he has to convert that. Gower was relatively poor in the First Class game but still averaged 40. D B-D has now had 94 innings and only averages 32. He has a much bigger step up to make.
    Agreed but given that the Lions allegedly develop players a 22 year old D B-D has to be a prime candidate.

    I just hope they don't ruin him a la Riley (or should that be a le Riley or even au Riley).

    The main positive for me is that the likes of Coles can see that even playing for Kent at the arse end of division two there is a way back into the England set up.
  • LenGlover said:

    LenGlover said:

    Staggering that bell drummond has received a lion call up with that average.

    Going back a bit I think Marcus Trescothic had an average in the twenties when first "spotted" as a future England possible.

    What's the saying? Form is temporary but class is permanent or something like that.

    D B-D has class.
    He does Len but, at some point, he has to convert that. Gower was relatively poor in the First Class game but still averaged 40. D B-D has now had 94 innings and only averages 32. He has a much bigger step up to make.
    Agreed but given that the Lions allegedly develop players a 22 year old D B-D has to be a prime candidate.

    I just hope they don't ruin him a la Riley (or should that be a le Riley or even au Riley).

    The main positive for me is that the likes of Coles can see that even playing for Kent at the arse end of division two there is a way back into the England set up.
    Indeed, I'm slightly surprised Coles wasn't invited on the Lions tour. He's only 25, and presumably better behaved than 2 years ago!
  • Good Luck Geraint Jones on Saturday's Lords final in his final game in England.
  • Just been looking through the PCA site and stumbled across their minimum recommended wages:

    18 - £16,379
    19 - £17,531
    20 - £18,658
    21 - £19,953
    22 - £21,144
    23 - £22,335
    24 - £23,203


    That's for a season not a week (the equivalent of what a bottom end PL player might earn in that time).

    It get even better if you are non contract:

    Daily Rate £50 per day (Relates to non contracted players however, some counties do pay a day rate on top of salary)

    That's less than minimum wage and you have to take your expenses out of that.

    I have just taken the drastic steps of hiding all Seb's cricket gear and propose to get him down the gold club asap!
  • Last night's awards for this season were:

    Player Of The Year: Matt Coles

    Bowler: Matt Coles

    Batsman: Sam Northeast

    Fielder: Alex Blake

    One day Player Of The Year: Alex Blake

    Young Player Of The Year: Adam Riley
  • Terrible season for the spinners

    I think that's a countrywide thing. We just don't produce wickets that suit them. Overall, there is only one spinner (22nd place - Jeetan Patel with 48 wickets from 15 matches) in the top 30.
    Interesting article from Ollie Rayner, the Middlesex spinner, on this very subject:

    The fact of the matter is that I, like many other spinners around the country, bowl the majority of my overs on green pitches such as Lord's where we are often being used in short bursts to pick up the over rate. It's all very well being expected to bowl, bowl, bowl all the time, but net bowling and bowling to a mitt during practice is different from getting time in the middle.

    I had a really good year in 2013, when I took 46 wickets, but that included 15 in a single game against Surrey at The Oval. Even without that, 30 wickets would have been a good year for me.

    I can hit a cone for most of the day but if someone starts flying at me in a match or sitting back in the crease then I have to adapt on the spot. And if you don't bowl in enough match situations you aren't going to learn those survival skills.

    The prevailing conditions in England create a vicious circle for young captains as well. It's tough to learn how to manage your spinners because if they get whacked early in their spell they tend to get taken off, whereas if a seamer gets nicked through third man, or drops one short and gets pulled, they still get thrown the ball because seamers are seamers and seen as more of an attacking option in England.

    When I see young kids around the grounds in county matches and their mums tell me that they bowl spin and do I have any tips for them, I say, yeah, learn to bat. You have to expect to supplement your wickets haul with 500-plus runs a season, because no one can survive as an out-and-out spinner in county cricket unless he is exceptional.

    My career path has been slightly different to some spinners. I'm not ashamed to say that I got called for throwing when I was in my early twenties. Since then, until two or three years ago, my action didn't belong to me. It was a case of doing what coaches advised me and just trying to keep in the game and find different ways of skinning the cat, as it were.

    Three years ago I didn't like the way all that was going, I felt I needed an action that I had developed myself so that if something went wrong with it I could instinctlvely feel what it is.

    If you don't bowl in enough match situations you aren't going to learn any survival skills

    Ultimately, when you are a young bowler, you are going to do what you need to do to get recognised, and get what you need to get. But just as fast-bowling coaches are looking for guys who can bowl at 90mph, spin coaches want guys with classical side-on actions.

    Unfortunately, not everyone grows up bowling like that. I didn't really watch cricket as a youngster, I just picked up a ball one day and got taught the basics. How I got the ball down there and spun it was largely down to me.

    Unfortunately my action was illegal and, rightly, I got pulled up for it, but until the recent ICC clampdown it always seemed to be bowlers in England and Australia who got collared, because they were tighter on it than in other countries.

    Over the years I've gone through various clinics with England and they've tried to tweak things here and there. But if you look at a lot of guys who have been through the ECB set-up, a lot of them have tough times after having their natural games coached out of them. Simon Kerrigan suffered for it, and Adam Riley's not had a great second year either.

    How often do you see a spin bowler being employed as a coach at a county ground? You often find the seamer's coach doubling up. These guys may have got their ECB coaching badges and may know the mechanics and how to teach barrel spin and topspin and drift and swerve, but that's very different from bowling spin at a professional level.

    Ultimately we need people who can put it on the spot six balls out of six and cause problems, no matter who is facing them and how they are batting. And frankly it doesn't matter to me if they are a frog in the blender, as long as they can do it. English cricket still harks back to Jim Laker's classic see-saw action, but the game has changed. Spinners of any era and reputation, on these wickets against these batsmen, they'd probably get pumped too.

    I don't honestly know what the answer is. I get frustrated with people who present problems without offering solutions but there are no obvious solutions to England's spin problems. We have to do the job that our teams require, so if your team is a seamer-strong attack and your job is to hold up an end then so be it.

    I personally think someone like Moeen Ali is doing an excellent job for England. It doesn't seem to affect him if he gets hit, and that is a great strength. He just keeps trying to rip the ball as much as he can, regardless of what the batter is doing. And he bats well too.

    Zafar Ansari had been bowling nicely this season until his injury at Old Trafford last week but the fact of the matter is, there is not loads of competition for these spots. It's unrealistic to expect a miracle bowler to burst onto the scene given the hurdles that spin bowlers have to overcome.
    t

    Seb's spin coach has always been Min Patel and he has been very fortunate to have him. For now at least though, Seb sees himself more as a wicket keeper batsman which, for a boy who has, as a result of Min's input, developed a classical action (and is unusual in the sense that he is a finger spinning leggie) is potentially Seb's loss.

    But, at County level, when you do bowl the odd bad ball you do get punished (even at U12 level) and consequently do get taken off without a second chance. At Club level boys of his age never get to bowl more than two or three overs so there is little opportunity to hone those skills in a match situation - and nets don't help because they can be a rather unrealistic environment to bowl in. And kids do want to be involved in the game so will turn to something that will give them that - in Seb's case wicket keeping.

  • Last night's awards for this season were:

    Player Of The Year: Matt Coles

    Bowler: Matt Coles

    Batsman: Sam Northeast

    Fielder: Alex Blake

    One day Player Of The Year: Alex Blake

    Young Player Of The Year: Adam Riley

    Surprised by the last one! I'm not sure what the criteria are, but I'd have thought someone like Matt Hunn would be more deserving
  • edited September 2015

    Terrible season for the spinners

    I think that's a countrywide thing. We just don't produce wickets that suit them. Overall, there is only one spinner (22nd place - Jeetan Patel with 48 wickets from 15 matches) in the top 30.
    Interesting article from Ollie Rayner, the Middlesex spinner, on this very subject:

    The fact of the matter is that I, like many other spinners around the country, bowl the majority of my overs on green pitches such as Lord's where we are often being used in short bursts to pick up the over rate. It's all very well being expected to bowl, bowl, bowl all the time, but net bowling and bowling to a mitt during practice is different from getting time in the middle.

    I had a really good year in 2013, when I took 46 wickets, but that included 15 in a single game against Surrey at The Oval. Even without that, 30 wickets would have been a good year for me.

    I can hit a cone for most of the day but if someone starts flying at me in a match or sitting back in the crease then I have to adapt on the spot. And if you don't bowl in enough match situations you aren't going to learn those survival skills.

    The prevailing conditions in England create a vicious circle for young captains as well. It's tough to learn how to manage your spinners because if they get whacked early in their spell they tend to get taken off, whereas if a seamer gets nicked through third man, or drops one short and gets pulled, they still get thrown the ball because seamers are seamers and seen as more of an attacking option in England.

    When I see young kids around the grounds in county matches and their mums tell me that they bowl spin and do I have any tips for them, I say, yeah, learn to bat. You have to expect to supplement your wickets haul with 500-plus runs a season, because no one can survive as an out-and-out spinner in county cricket unless he is exceptional.

    My career path has been slightly different to some spinners. I'm not ashamed to say that I got called for throwing when I was in my early twenties. Since then, until two or three years ago, my action didn't belong to me. It was a case of doing what coaches advised me and just trying to keep in the game and find different ways of skinning the cat, as it were.

    Three years ago I didn't like the way all that was going, I felt I needed an action that I had developed myself so that if something went wrong with it I could instinctlvely feel what it is.

    If you don't bowl in enough match situations you aren't going to learn any survival skills

    Ultimately, when you are a young bowler, you are going to do what you need to do to get recognised, and get what you need to get. But just as fast-bowling coaches are looking for guys who can bowl at 90mph, spin coaches want guys with classical side-on actions.

    Unfortunately, not everyone grows up bowling like that. I didn't really watch cricket as a youngster, I just picked up a ball one day and got taught the basics. How I got the ball down there and spun it was largely down to me.

    Unfortunately my action was illegal and, rightly, I got pulled up for it, but until the recent ICC clampdown it always seemed to be bowlers in England and Australia who got collared, because they were tighter on it than in other countries.

    Over the years I've gone through various clinics with England and they've tried to tweak things here and there. But if you look at a lot of guys who have been through the ECB set-up, a lot of them have tough times after having their natural games coached out of them. Simon Kerrigan suffered for it, and Adam Riley's not had a great second year either.

    How often do you see a spin bowler being employed as a coach at a county ground? You often find the seamer's coach doubling up. These guys may have got their ECB coaching badges and may know the mechanics and how to teach barrel spin and topspin and drift and swerve, but that's very different from bowling spin at a professional level.

    Ultimately we need people who can put it on the spot six balls out of six and cause problems, no matter who is facing them and how they are batting. And frankly it doesn't matter to me if they are a frog in the blender, as long as they can do it. English cricket still harks back to Jim Laker's classic see-saw action, but the game has changed. Spinners of any era and reputation, on these wickets against these batsmen, they'd probably get pumped too.

    I don't honestly know what the answer is. I get frustrated with people who present problems without offering solutions but there are no obvious solutions to England's spin problems. We have to do the job that our teams require, so if your team is a seamer-strong attack and your job is to hold up an end then so be it.

    I personally think someone like Moeen Ali is doing an excellent job for England. It doesn't seem to affect him if he gets hit, and that is a great strength. He just keeps trying to rip the ball as much as he can, regardless of what the batter is doing. And he bats well too.

    Zafar Ansari had been bowling nicely this season until his injury at Old Trafford last week but the fact of the matter is, there is not loads of competition for these spots. It's unrealistic to expect a miracle bowler to burst onto the scene given the hurdles that spin bowlers have to overcome.
    t

    Seb's spin coach has always been Min Patel and he has been very fortunate to have him. For now at least though, Seb sees himself more as a wicket keeper batsman which, for a boy who has, as a result of Min's input, developed a classical action (and is unusual in the sense that he is a finger spinning leggie) is potentially Seb's loss.

    But, at County level, when you do bowl the odd bad ball you do get punished (even at U12 level) and consequently do get taken off without a second chance. At Club level boys of his age never get to bowl more than two or three overs so there is little opportunity to hone those skills in a match situation - and nets don't help because they can be a rather unrealistic environment to bowl in. And kids do want to be involved in the game so will turn to something that will give them that - in Seb's case wicket keeping.

    You know the game at least as well as I do AA by the sound of it so will take this in the spirit it is meant I hope.

    Plenty of young boys are talented leggies into their early / mid teens until their growth spurt starts. they then lose their natural loop and then have to relearn how to be a spinner once fully grown.

    As a boy and into his teens the late Colin Cowdrey was more highly regarded as a leg spinner than a batsman believe it or not. Alan Knott was as highly regarded as an off spinner as he was a wicket keeper in his early mid teens. Derek Underwood bowled left arm quick (or what passes for quick in junior cricket) until the age of 15 or so. At 17/18 he took 100 wickets for Kent in a first class season as a slow left arm spinner although admittedly not a wholly conventional one a la Norman Gifford etc.

    What I am trying to say is that Seb is probably doing the right thing in the long term. He should still dabble with the spin as strings to bows are always useful. Vince Wells made his debut for Kent as a wicket keeper. He went on to Leicestershire and played one day international cricket as a medium paced all rounder.
  • Thanks Len.

    I think he is definitely doing the right thing if only for the fact that it is currently what he wants to do. Equally, I don't think he would have been able to play adult cricket this season, at his age, if it weren't for his keeping as he is at the lower end of the height scale. His bowling would have been taken apart by the opposition taking two steps down the track and whilst I would be confident of him opening the batting at that level I suspect that there would a reluctance, from the perspective of health and safety, for him to do so. It's not got anything to do with pace because he is comfortable facing 70 mph plus - it's the consistent extra bounce.

    Kent want him to carry on doing all three but it has been virtually impossible for him to do so this season as until May he had never actually kept in a game so found himself devoting his practice time into keeping rather than bowling and keeping in virtually every club game he played - adult or colts. That then became a self-fulfilling prophecy as he then found himself not being considered to bowl as evidenced by just one over at County level this season.

    Every year, prior to the Kent trials, we have to complete a sheet specifying which discipline(s) Seb wishes to be considered for. At U11 it was batsman/spin bowler, last year it was batsman/spin bowler/keeper. I asked Seb the other day what he wants me to put down this year and the answer was batsman/keeper so I told him that I'm happy to do so as long as he doesn't write the spin off i.e. that he doesn't start to bowl seam up in the nets. Time will tell.
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  • Darren Stevens to have Benefit Year in 2016. Thoroughly deserved too.

    kentcricket.co.uk/news/darren-stevens-awarded-benefit-year-in-2016
  • Looks like there will be a local derby to replace the loss of Surrey.

    Sussex need to survive two sessions and a minimum of 67 overs not to be relegated with just 5 wickets in hand against a Yorkshire side who need the win to break the record number of wins in a CC season (new format).

    Would be great for Yardy if, in his final ever game, he manages to pull it off but, even if he manages to bat through, I very much doubt if he will get sufficient support from the other end.

    Rather says it all about Hants and Sussex in the latter games though. Fidel Edwards for Hants picks up 23 wickets in the final four matches (including 10 in this one) whereas Sussex not only expect Chris Jordan to be their main strike bowler but he now opens the batting for them too!

    Doubt whether he will be returning to Surrey but it won't do Jordan's England claims to be playing in Div 2.
  • I think England now see Chris Jordan as mainly an ODI player rather than a test player, so being in the 2nd division of the CC probably won't hurt him.
  • I think England now see Chris Jordan as mainly an ODI player rather than a test player, so being in the 2nd division of the CC probably won't hurt him.

    But is that how Chris Jordan sees himself?
  • Sussex relegated.
  • Sam Northeast & Matt Coles in the PCA Team Of The Year:

    Cook (Essex)
    Hales (Notts)
    Root (Yorks)
    Northeast (Kent)
    Wright (Sussex)
    Stokes (Durham)
    Davies (Alex) (Lancs)
    Broad (Notts)
    Coles (Kent)
    Patel (Jeetan) (Warwick)
    Rushworth (Durham)

    No other County has more than two players in that team and the Division 1 Champions (by a country mile too) have just Joe Root - and how many games did he play for them?
  • Well done Matt Coles, hopefully he will really kick on next season, especially with his batting, that century against Surrey shows what he can do!
  • Some somewhat surprising and disappointing news:

    kentcricket.co.uk/news/ryan-davies-signs-for-somerset
  • Some somewhat surprising and disappointing news:

    kentcricket.co.uk/news/ryan-davies-signs-for-somerset

    In the queue behind Billings but potentially a better player. Ambitious.
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