Charlton fans saying ' Not sure what this means for us' is essentially the same as saying ' I hate that old prick, he has ruined our clu.... oh wait, more money for us? ... Never had a problem with him'.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
Well, if he leaves us one step behind Chelsea and Arsenal, then I won't be complaining too much.
Soccerway (not necessarily 100% accurate, of course) says this about values of transfers at RSL under RD (all figures in millions of euros). Larger fees look like they are rounded down to nearest half million.
2015 fees for players bought in 2.5; fees for players sold out nil 2014 in 3.4; out 20.0 2013 in 2.7; out 7.4 2012 in 4.3; out 4.2 2011 in 2.4 out 30.0 (from June, when he bought the club)
Total appears to be 15.3 in; 61.6 out.
If a case could be made that there was something approaching asset-stripping, it was in the value of the playing squad, which is obviously what mattered to the Rouches fans.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
Well, if he leaves us one step behind Chelsea and Arsenal, then I won't be complaining too much.
Difference being that Standard were already competing with those clubs. It would the same as him leaving us mid-table in the Championship.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Well clearly it's easier to do that if you take over one of the leading clubs in a given country. Liege probably had a good TV deal with lots of matches on TV, lots of different revenue streams including European/Champions League money. Liege are one of the best supported teams in their country too. Contrast that with us and you can see how much tougher it could be, particularly as we will always be fighting against clubs with sugar daddies and/or parachute payments. If he wants to make good money with Charlton he is going to have to put some money in first, or hope that we can do a Burnley. To do that, we have to have the right squad and the right manager. We'll know more when all the transfer business is done, but it's a mammoth task to get someone promoted, even with financial backing.
Well, I am devastated that Roland has sold SL as it will probably mean the end of Defke's poetical comments aka, "Give me just one calendar and the winner is champion." Most of the waffle on here is pretty turgid compared to Defke. Can't you lot try a bit harder?
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
Well, if he leaves us one step behind Chelsea and Arsenal, then I won't be complaining too much.
Difference being that Standard were already competing with those clubs. It would the same as him leaving us mid-table in the Championship.
Some numbers in the Belgian press (not sure how much of this is journalist speculation): - RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011 - Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers) - payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013 - sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
That's interesting, because as far as I can understand him RD seems to be driven by the desire to show other businessman that you can make money out of football, without being a thief (ala Risdale, etc). He might hold up those figures and say, see, I told you so.
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
Well, if he leaves us one step behind Chelsea and Arsenal, then I won't be complaining too much.
Difference being that Standard were already competing with those clubs. It would the same as him leaving us mid-table in the Championship.
Soccerway (not necessarily 100% accurate, of course) says this about values of transfers at RSL under RD (all figures in millions of euros). Larger fees look like they are rounded down to nearest half million.
2015 fees for players bought in 2.5; fees for players sold out nil 2014 in 3.4; out 20.0 2013 in 2.7; out 7.4 2012 in 4.3; out 4.2 2011 in 2.4 out 30.0 (from June, when he bought the club)
Total appears to be 15.3 in; 61.6 out.
If a case could be made that there was something approaching asset-stripping, it was in the value of the playing squad, which is obviously what mattered to the Rouches fans.
I totally agree with you, Standard Liege has been a very good exposure and 'stepping stone' for some very good talents/players but not selling could have brought them more trophies/silverware... They have the same problem as us, being a selling club, which is not necessarily a bad thing since being a good stepping stone can attract good players to. Hopefully the club can evolve to a higher level because of this (with some additional financial backing). At some point you need to keep your best players to I know but I have good hopes Charlton will do that at some point, but i could be wrong off course...
It's not just about buying and selling though, it's about operating costs. I have no information about SL, but Charlton's issue is that the club cannot balance its books in any given year in its current league without selling players. That's why it has continued to run up debt. Staprix's interest charges add to that issue, although it's arguable whether that is meaningful. To extract value from CAFC without gaining promotion, RD would have to cover the continuing operating loss before any profit on player sales every year, which is a very tall order - as is getting promotion without substantial investment.
Investment in the stadium isn't going to create corresponding value, welcome as it may be, and investment in the "matchday experience" won't of itself change revenues significantly and may not pay for itself.
All that leaves is developing your own players and holding on to them long enough to get promoted, which is in tension with short-term losses and hard to do, as the departures of Poyet and Gomez, in contrasting circumstances, show - or selling the club at a profit. The higher the debt (i.e. roughly the longer his tenure lasts) the more difficult that becomes, so this is of itself in tension with building for promotion.
That's why the club's a money pit. RD, like TJ before him, is IMO backing his own "genius" to overcome that, the difference being he can take the hit.
If his selling of SL reflects that he has lost commitment to SL then it is probably good news. If it is driven by a loss of commitment to running football clubs then it's very bad news for us.
Possible reasons for the sale (and the timing ....) a) he has been able to get an acceptable price b) he is selling to someone already involved at SL, making the whole process much easier c) he has avoided any possible issues arising from STVV's promotion d) he is sick to death of SL's disrespectful, self-obsessed and insatiable fans e) he is filling a war chest - for us
Airman is right about this one but it is not unique to Charlton. Unless someday there is a true cap on players wages, league football will continue to be rich owners funding annual losses until it is no longer sustainable and then selling to the next rich owner whose ego fuels the dream of making the premier league only to start the cycle all over again. The problem is eventually the number of multimillionaires willing to buy a club will diminish (maybe not in the next few years but most likely in the long term) which is why the future of a club like Charlton is really tied to a more stringent version of FFP.
More than likely its to do with Saint Truden getting promoted, either that the authorities were not happy, or that he can achieve the same now possibly at a lower cost
I'm stil not totally convinced that RD has a target for Charlton in any way other than to break even yet remain the club they already are. I don't see any evidence that the Premier League is his Holy Grail.
I think that he thinks having a very very good academy means that we can produce a production line of Players like Jenkinson, Shelvey, Poyet and Gomez etc etc which can be sold every season or so in order to fund the club.
If we get lucky with some value punts from overseas as well then that adds some value too.
I don't see a plan to build a squad year on year to attack the playoffs like Curbishley did under Murray. I see a policy of increasing the use of academy players as they come on line, a few shrewd? Signings and gaps filled with the Johnsons, Eagles, Bikeys where necessary. Being able to utilise other network clubs is a useful addition although the sale of Standard Liege means that the network has no clubs where player quality matches that of The Championship which unless that is addressed (Lens) ? Causes RD a problem he hasn't had before.
That I believe is Roland's experiment to prove that clubs can be run to break even.
I'm stil not totally convinced that RD has a target for Charlton in any way other than to break even yet remain the club they already are. I don't see any evidence that the Premier League is his Holy Grail.
I think that he thinks having a very very good academy means that we can produce a production line of Players like Jenkinson, Shelvey, Poyet and Gomez etc etc which can be sold every season or so in order to fund the club.
If we get lucky with some value punts from overseas as well then that adds some value too.
I don't see a plan to build a squad year on year to attack the playoffs like Curbishley did under Murray. I see a policy of increasing the use of academy players as they come on line, a few shrewd? Signings and gaps filled with the Johnsons, Eagles, Bikeys where necessary. Being able to utilise other network clubs is a useful addition although the sale of Standard Liege means that the network has no clubs where player quality matches that of The Championship which unless that is addressed (Lens) ? Causes RD a problem he hasn't had before.
That I believe is Roland's experiment to prove that clubs can be run to break even.
This. His scouting is going to need to improve many fold to be able to even break even let alone break profit from his purchases, now he can't move assets from SL to us and use us as a shop window. Also I think the current crop he's had, Poyet Gomez will cash in a lot more than I can see in our youth academy at the moment, a lot was down to Gomez's experience Internationally at such a young age, we don't have that any more. So that will certainly lower down.
It's an experiment as you say, I don't think Football Clubs should be run as experiments. What does he gain from proving himself that a club can break even? He has no interest in football as a sport, it's not quite right.
I'm glad for SL fans as they didn't seem happy, hopefully the new lease of life will put them back to where they were at or very close to the top, again.
More than likely its to do with Saint Truden getting promoted, either that the authorities were not happy, or that he can achieve the same now possibly at a lower cost
In the end, the Belgian FA granted Sint Truiden their Pro League licence without demur. RD at the press conference specifically stated that he had no part in STVV any more and that he was quitting Belgian football. That doesn't preclude him buying STVV back later, but his pal who now owns STVV would have to be willing to sell.
During the riots at Liege last autumn, RD was forced to duck out of the stadium early, for fear of his own safety. As someone else stated earlier in this thread, that is far more likely to be a a major cause of quitting RSL. From the point of view of RSL fans, he twice (2011 and 2014) wrecked a potential title-winning squad by selling off their best assets and not ploughing the cash back into the squad.
Another thing he referred to was the little world of Belgian football and media. Rival owners were hostile to his ideas and empire and he tended to get portrayed by the media as cranky, and that seems to have got under his skin, too.
So he seems to have lost his appetite for Belgian football and decided it's not worth the hassle. The $64 dollar question is how long before he loses the taste for the rest of his football empire?
More than likely its to do with Saint Truden getting promoted, either that the authorities were not happy, or that he can achieve the same now possibly at a lower cost
In the end, the Belgian FA granted Sint Truiden their Pro League licence without demur. RD at the press conference specifically stated that he had no part in STVV any more and that he was quitting Belgian football. That doesn't preclude him buying STVV back later, but his pal who now owns STVV would have to be willing to sell.
During the riots at Liege last autumn, RD was forced to duck out of the stadium early, for fear of his own safety. As someone else stated earlier in this thread, that is far more likely to be a a major cause of quitting RSL. From the point of view of RSL fans, he twice (2011 and 2014) wrecked a potential title-winning squad by selling off their best assets and not ploughing the cash back into the squad.
Another thing he referred to was the little world of Belgian football and media. Rival owners were hostile to his ideas and empire and he tended to get portrayed by the media as cranky, and that seems to have got under his skin, too.
So he seems to have lost his appetite for Belgian football and decided it's not worth the hassle. The $64 dollar question is how long before he loses the taste for the rest of his football empire?
As soon as he realises that he cannot make a profit without spending in the first place to get into premier league
Comments
- RD payed between 33 and 41 million euros for standard liege in 2011
- Since then 70 million received in outgoing transfers (no numbers on incoming transfers)
- payed himself 20 million in dividends in 2013
- sold for 30 million with Standard liege having 27 million in the bank for the new owner to start with.
Source (dutch): http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1325/Standard/article/detail/2375681/2015/06/25/Zo-veel-betaalde-Venanzi-voor-de-aandelen-van-Duchatelet.dhtml
All in all, i guess it was profitable for RD, but in no way he left liege behind broke and asset stripped...
Certainly not broke and stripped. However the Standard fans will say that he has left them in a worse place, in that Club Brugges and Anderlecht are ahead of them in terms of winning things.
2015 fees for players bought in 2.5; fees for players sold out nil
2014 in 3.4; out 20.0
2013 in 2.7; out 7.4
2012 in 4.3; out 4.2
2011 in 2.4 out 30.0 (from June, when he bought the club)
Total appears to be 15.3 in; 61.6 out.
If a case could be made that there was something approaching asset-stripping, it was in the value of the playing squad, which is obviously what mattered to the Rouches fans.
:-)
Investment in the stadium isn't going to create corresponding value, welcome as it may be, and investment in the "matchday experience" won't of itself change revenues significantly and may not pay for itself.
All that leaves is developing your own players and holding on to them long enough to get promoted, which is in tension with short-term losses and hard to do, as the departures of Poyet and Gomez, in contrasting circumstances, show - or selling the club at a profit. The higher the debt (i.e. roughly the longer his tenure lasts) the more difficult that becomes, so this is of itself in tension with building for promotion.
That's why the club's a money pit. RD, like TJ before him, is IMO backing his own "genius" to overcome that, the difference being he can take the hit.
Possible reasons for the sale (and the timing ....)
a) he has been able to get an acceptable price
b) he is selling to someone already involved at SL, making the whole process much easier
c) he has avoided any possible issues arising from STVV's promotion
d) he is sick to death of SL's disrespectful, self-obsessed and insatiable fans
e) he is filling a war chest - for us
I think that he thinks having a very very good academy means that we can produce a production line of Players like Jenkinson, Shelvey, Poyet and Gomez etc etc which can be sold every season or so in order to fund the club.
If we get lucky with some value punts from overseas as well then that adds some value too.
I don't see a plan to build a squad year on year to attack the playoffs like Curbishley did under Murray. I see a policy of increasing the use of academy players as they come on line, a few shrewd? Signings and gaps filled with the Johnsons, Eagles, Bikeys where necessary. Being able to utilise other network clubs is a useful addition although the sale of Standard Liege means that the network has no clubs where player quality matches that of The Championship which unless that is addressed (Lens) ? Causes RD a problem he hasn't had before.
That I believe is Roland's experiment to prove that clubs can be run to break even.
It's an experiment as you say, I don't think Football Clubs should be run as experiments. What does he gain from proving himself that a club can break even? He has no interest in football as a sport, it's not quite right.
I'm glad for SL fans as they didn't seem happy, hopefully the new lease of life will put them back to where they were at or very close to the top, again.
During the riots at Liege last autumn, RD was forced to duck out of the stadium early, for fear of his own safety. As someone else stated earlier in this thread, that is far more likely to be a a major cause of quitting RSL. From the point of view of RSL fans, he twice (2011 and 2014) wrecked a potential title-winning squad by selling off their best assets and not ploughing the cash back into the squad.
Another thing he referred to was the little world of Belgian football and media. Rival owners were hostile to his ideas and empire and he tended to get portrayed by the media as cranky, and that seems to have got under his skin, too.
So he seems to have lost his appetite for Belgian football and decided it's not worth the hassle. The $64 dollar question is how long before he loses the taste for the rest of his football empire?