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Traffic chaos in Kent

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  • NLA,

    I wasn't criticising you for your actions I was just making an observation. If they are behaving the way you describe and I don't, for a second, doubt you, then they deserve all they get. I just think that these things can escalate and it would be far better if these confrontations were avoided at all costs. It is an issue that the law enforcement in France should be addressing, although I have no idea how they would go about doing so, but I'm not in that line of work so I wouldn't be expected to.

    I'm with SHG in that I have sympathy for anyone that lives in poor conditions for any reason. I'm just too selfish to want to, actually, sacrifice my or my family's wealth/standard of living/lifestyle to help those less well off than I am. I'm not particularly proud of that but I'm also not ashamed of it. I suspect that there are many that feel the same as I do.

    However, for the avoidance of doubt, there is no need to ask me if I would like to put any of these people up in my house as I would not. I just have some sympathy for them.
  • Red why not show a graph which shows how many came to ENGLAND against the rest of Europe ?
    That old chestnut of "plenty of room here" always uses the UK when 90%+ of ALL immigration (legal and non) comes to England.

    If all immigration was to go to Scotland in ten years there would be more immigrants than Scots.
  • smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits.

    Tone down the xenophobia.
    But they'll want access to housing, healthcare and possibly education. We don't have enough of any of those right now due to the massive increase in our population over the last few years.
  • If all immigration was to go to Scotland in ten years there would be more immigrants than Scots.

    They go to where the jobs are.

    I'm sure you will support government investment to make sure that that's Scotland.
  • edited July 2015

    smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits.

    Tone down the xenophobia.
    But they'll want access to housing, healthcare and possibly education. We don't have enough of any of those right now due to the massive increase in our population over the last few years.
    And if caught they become undocumented asylum claimants and are then on the benefits pathway. It's why I lol'd you the last time you made the point SELR.
  • its also the cost of their welfare---food--health-security--accommodation

    and then there are the lawyers---courts.
  • cabbles said:

    smiffyboy said:

    kentred2 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    I expect the taxes you pay in your lifetime will only pay for what you receive eg nhs and education until age 16 would take the first £60000 you pay at a minimum. All this my taxes stuff is pure daily mail shit to back up the austerity money transfer.
    I've paid more than £60000 in taxes in the last 2.5 years so that's rubbish
    That's nothing compared to your gambling winnings though I bet smiffy :wink:

    Acca season is upon us again soon. I'll be starting the new thread I think so we can all focus on who your money is on
    lol cheers cables but tax on betting was scrapped years ago otherwise your right that figure would be doubled, ps did you see my £1800 in 3 days last week!!!!!!!!
  • edited July 2015
    Richard Burnett from the Road Haulage Association, has just called the Cameron new proposals are 'sticking plaster's...... He proposes some extra fencing and dogs.
    Stack was supposed to be an emergency measure, The transport minister is considering Manston, and a lorry park!. Why considering it!. Action is needed now, then review the situation, and try a formulate a medium term solution. Said a day or so ago Flimsy fences ain't gonna cut it, and with respect although the French have made a bit more effort, it is still woeful in the current situation. Seem's more that Cameron want's to be 'seen' to be doing something, which I appreciate is now a very difficult situation for all sides to resolve.
    But there has to be order, and it has to be immediate, not sometime next week, possibly?. God knows how the poor people of Kent are putting up with this, I should imagine that the prime tourist trade must be taking a terrible toll, which in turn will make the recovery that this region badly needs being badly affected. As I again mention, if we as a nation cannot protect our borders what can we protect, take some leadership Cameron, even if it is a temporary measure to regain law and order. Then engage with whoever to deliver a solution, or at least measures to resolve this issue.
  • Richard Burnett from the Road Haulage Association, has just called the Cameron new proposals are 'sticking plaster's...... He proposes some extra fencing and dogs.
    Stack was supposed to be an emergency measure, The transport minister is considering Manston, and a lorry park!. Why considering it!. Action is needed now, then review the situation, and try a formulate a medium term solution. Said a day or so ago Flimsy fences ain't gonna cut it, and with respect although the French have made a bit more effort, it is still woeful in the current situation. Seem's more that Cameron want's to be 'seen' to be doing something, which I appreciate is now a very difficult situation for all sides to resolve.
    But there has to be order, and it has to be immediate, not sometime next week, possibly?. God knows how the poor people of Kent are putting up with this, I should imagine that the prime tourist trade must be taking a terrible toll, which in turn will make the recovery that this region badly needs being badly affected. As I again mention, if we as a nation cannot protect our borders what can we protect, take some leadership Cameron, even if it is a temporary measure to regain law and order. Then engage with whoever to deliver a solution, or at least measures to resolve this issue.

    Get Bailey down there to bite some of them in the nadgers.

  • edited July 2015

    I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.

    Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.

    So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.

    Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
    Thank you for your offer although I first need you to point out to me in which post I stated that I was in favur of them being allowed entry into the UK.

    I know they can't and shouldn't be allowed to come here but that doesn't stop me having waffling empathy and sympathy with their plight any less than it stops me feeling sorry for the desperate health tourist who comes here hoping to get treatment to save their lives because they can't afford to get that treatment in their own country.

    We need to say enough is enough on both issues but I would prefer Britain as a society to have some pity for these people and to seek with others a good solution and not adopt the distasteful approach of pepper spray, rubber bullets and worse all suggested in this thread either in some jest ? Or seriously.

    I would hope we are better than that.

    SHG do you still have sympathy for these people even if they threaten, steal and intimidate innocent people?
    SHG??
    No I don't. But I also don't believe that all of the people in Calais trying to get across are bad people.


    It only takes one thoughd SHG don't it and id stick my house on the fact that more than one is a baden. If they're happy to jump on moving trains to get their goal, what else aire they capable of?

    Life is very cheap to folk like that
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  • Why anyone would want to help these filth is beyond me, have you looked into the people your offering a sensitive and caring side too , these are gangs of knife wielding robbers and scum
  • smiffyboy said:

    cabbles said:

    smiffyboy said:

    kentred2 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    I expect the taxes you pay in your lifetime will only pay for what you receive eg nhs and education until age 16 would take the first £60000 you pay at a minimum. All this my taxes stuff is pure daily mail shit to back up the austerity money transfer.
    I've paid more than £60000 in taxes in the last 2.5 years so that's rubbish
    That's nothing compared to your gambling winnings though I bet smiffy :wink:

    Acca season is upon us again soon. I'll be starting the new thread I think so we can all focus on who your money is on
    lol cheers cables but tax on betting was scrapped years ago otherwise your right that figure would be doubled, ps did you see my £1800 in 3 days last week!!!!!!!!
    Haha - yep I know the tax was scrapped years ago. I meant you could probably cover your tax bill with your winnings :wink:

    No I missed the £1800. On the horses I'm guessing
  • its also the cost of their welfare---food--health-security--accommodation

    and then there are the lawyers---courts.

    Who you gonna call...... Black Lawyers Association
  • cabbles said:

    smiffyboy said:

    cabbles said:

    smiffyboy said:

    kentred2 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    I expect the taxes you pay in your lifetime will only pay for what you receive eg nhs and education until age 16 would take the first £60000 you pay at a minimum. All this my taxes stuff is pure daily mail shit to back up the austerity money transfer.
    I've paid more than £60000 in taxes in the last 2.5 years so that's rubbish
    That's nothing compared to your gambling winnings though I bet smiffy :wink:

    Acca season is upon us again soon. I'll be starting the new thread I think so we can all focus on who your money is on
    lol cheers cables but tax on betting was scrapped years ago otherwise your right that figure would be doubled, ps did you see my £1800 in 3 days last week!!!!!!!!
    Haha - yep I know the tax was scrapped years ago. I meant you could probably cover your tax bill with your winnings :wink:

    No I missed the £1800. On the horses I'm guessing
    Yep sure was bring on the football!!!
  • Why anyone would want to help these filth is beyond me, have you looked into the people your offering a sensitive and caring side too , these are gangs of knife wielding robbers and scum

    Too many do gooders in the country that don't live in the real world mate
  • brogib said:

    I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.

    Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.

    So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.

    Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
    Thank you for your offer although I first need you to point out to me in which post I stated that I was in favur of them being allowed entry into the UK.

    I know they can't and shouldn't be allowed to come here but that doesn't stop me having waffling empathy and sympathy with their plight any less than it stops me feeling sorry for the desperate health tourist who comes here hoping to get treatment to save their lives because they can't afford to get that treatment in their own country.

    We need to say enough is enough on both issues but I would prefer Britain as a society to have some pity for these people and to seek with others a good solution and not adopt the distasteful approach of pepper spray, rubber bullets and worse all suggested in this thread either in some jest ? Or seriously.

    I would hope we are better than that.

    SHG do you still have sympathy for these people even if they threaten, steal and intimidate innocent people?
    SHG??
    No I don't. But I also don't believe that all of the people in Calais trying to get across are bad people.


    It only takes one thoughd SHG don't it and id stick my house on the fact that more than one is a baden. If they're happy to jump on moving trains to get their goal, what else aire they capable of?

    Life is very cheap to folk like that
    Citing their desperation to get to the UK by jumping on a moving train and then equating that to to being a bad person is a phenomenal leap. In fact it's further than the original train jump.

    Perhaps we ought to keep a very close eye on all those currently here predisposed to liking a bungee jump or a penchant for hand gliding.
  • Why anyone would want to help these filth is beyond me, have you looked into the people your offering a sensitive and caring side too , these are gangs of knife wielding robbers and scum

    I saw this on the news this morning, and online found this link:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/watch-migrants-in-calais-help-children-over-fence-near-eurotunnel-10429397.html

    I absolutely and fully accept that children are in the minority, and I absolutely accept NLA what you say about the threats and attacks you have endured.
    However at least one person in all this is clearly a child, and it is not unreasonable for somebody to be affected by seeing stuff like this and express some sympathy.
    In this picture it is a little kid, and even if the kid is being used by baddies, it is still a little kid there who can't know the wider world picture, the child seems so young.

  • I have more issue that the French don't take the child and put it into care and into a family , it's like the gypsies on the tubes with the hand written note and their sad faces saying feed me help me it's all part of the scam
  • But Seth as a father myself, if I was in their situation fleeing my country with my family because of war I would stop at the first safe place I found not travel through many country's to stop at Calais make my family camp in squalor and then risk their lives further trying to get them on to moving trains or hiding them in lorrys etc
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  • .
    WSS said:
    Bugger. I have to work there quite a bit, and it's nice little jolly on the HS1. Expect the peace to be shattered now.

  • smiffyboy said:

    Interesting graph in this article showing asylum seekers per 1 million of the population of the country in which asylum is being sought. The UK comes 19th in that table.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers

    Don't care what the table says I don't want these vermin in my country stealing and spitting everywhere while claiming my hard earned taxes
    Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits.

    Tone down the xenophobia.
    The one has arrived.
  • smiffyboy said:

    But Seth as a father myself, if I was in their situation fleeing my country with my family because of war I would stop at the first safe place I found not travel through many country's to stop at Calais make my family camp in squalor and then risk their lives further trying to get them on to moving trains or hiding them in lorrys etc

    I would do the same. however for whatever reason we see a child, a pawn in the game if you like, and NLA is absolutely right that the French authorities should remove that child to a place of safety.
    But they're not.
    And that child, and possibly some other people, even adults, are caught up in all of this, people who might deserve some sympathy and help.
    In this situation the responsibility rests with the authorities, and they should implement their rules and guidelines. I don't believe French rules and guidelines would mean leaving a child in that situation, and for that little one at least the French ought to act.

  • seth plum said:

    Why anyone would want to help these filth is beyond me, have you looked into the people your offering a sensitive and caring side too , these are gangs of knife wielding robbers and scum

    I saw this on the news this morning, and online found this link:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/watch-migrants-in-calais-help-children-over-fence-near-eurotunnel-10429397.html

    I absolutely and fully accept that children are in the minority, and I absolutely accept NLA what you say about the threats and attacks you have endured.
    However at least one person in all this is clearly a child, and it is not unreasonable for somebody to be affected by seeing stuff like this and express some sympathy.
    In this picture it is a little kid, and even if the kid is being used by baddies, it is still a little kid there who can't know the wider world picture, the child seems so young.

    saw that and as the article read 'Ebbsfleet can only accommodate 1,00 lorries, and there were 3,500 the other night'..... and the residents of Kent do not seem very happy with the 'effort' so far..... who can blame them!
  • I heard on the news this morning that a lot want to come to the UK because there is a huge and unregulated black job-market there which is facilitated by the fact that there are no ID cards.
  • seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.

    Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.

    So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.

    Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
    I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.

    There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.

    NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.

    So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.

    Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.

    I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.

    The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.

    Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.

    The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.

    The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.

    NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.

    There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
    Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.

    The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now?
    If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?

    Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain.
    Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.

    So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
  • edited July 2015
    It'll be interesting to see how the migrant situation in the Mediterranean and the knock on problems in Calais play out in the forthcoming EU referendum. I can see it becoming the defining issue which is hardly going to help the pro EU cause.
  • iainment said:

    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.

    Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.

    So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.

    Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
    I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.

    There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.

    NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.

    So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.

    Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.

    I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.

    The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.

    Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.

    The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.

    The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.

    NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.

    There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
    Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.

    The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now?
    If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?

    Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain.
    Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.

    So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
    Would you say the same to Johnnie Foreigner, living in the UK with concerns about their homeland?
  • France is approximately twice the size of the UK, with about the same population (63m) so they have more room to accommodate these people.
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