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Traffic chaos in Kent
Comments
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golfaddick said:BR7_addick said:Here’s me attempting to add balance because brexiteers are gonna brexit and remainers are gonna remain. As in, we all have our biases.
You ask our government who’s fault it is, they say the French.You ask the French government they say it’s the UK’s fault.In other words, you can’t fully trust the politicians on this one, we all agree on that I assume?
So who do you ask? How about the CEO of the port of dover. Seems like the most senior person at the port, also most knowledgable you’d assume to get into such a position.“The extreme delays at the port of Dover are ultimately due to brexit”
So there you have it, it’s most likely, even if his analysis is off slightly, that brexit was a factor. You can still enjoy your brexit if you want, no one’s going to take it away from you, but at least have the balls to listen to something you don’t like. I voted for it by the way, but you don’t have to support it like it’s Charlton.
I dont like what's happened since the vote in 2016 but the aftermath is solely down to the Government, not the voters.
"... in 2019, a minority of people voted for a clown that mumbled "Get Brexit Done" - by then "the people" had three and a half years to find out it was all bullshit, the GFA had been a major topic for a few years too (even though, as you say, it wasn't mentioned in the leaflet that most tabloid brainwashed anti-EU twits ignored), but the dimwits voted to plough on regardless. You certainly can blame "the people" for making the same mistake twice with a host of further knowledge to hand that they chose to ignore."
You knew in 2019 about the problems that Brexit caused with regard to Northern Ireland. You chose to ignore it. You now pretend it isn't your fault because you were not told it would be a problem in 2016. But you admit that you repeated the mistake in 2019.
Additionally, If you believed in 2019 that Brexit was still the "will of the people", why were you bothered about a second referendum? Surely you believed the outcome would be the same as the first if it was "the will of the people"? Or does the "will of the people" only count at specific moments in time when you decide it should?
You said yourself that you didn't have all the information you needed in 2016, so if you were better informed in 2019 (despite choosing to ignore the new information), it stands to reason that so was everyone else. Only an idiot would think that a decison made by people who are better informed is not a more valid decision.
Boris Johnson was PM from July 24th 2019, the election was on December 12th, so this statement "there might not have been a GE in 2019 & Boris wouldn't have been PM." is in fact, untrue, he was already PM at that point.6 -
Leroy Ambrose said:stop_shouting said:But this was a cross party referendum. Labour we’re acting like cnuts by whipping their mp’s as they had no brexit policy whatsoever 😂😂 and we’re just voting against the tories out of spite apart from hero’s like Kate hoey. if they had put their country first rather than their party then as Seth says, mays deal would have been better than what we have now. Peppa pig would have been a better leader of the oppo than the beardy weirdy they had back then.1
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golfaddick said:ThreadKiller said:stop_shouting said:seth plum said:Theresa May tried to make it work.
The issue then was people freaking out about a ‘backstop’.
Had her (albeit flawed) deal gone through there wouldn’t be such a mess as we have now.
So whilst it's not Labours fault they played a big part on stalling the process & not following the will of the people. As did the Lib Dems, the Greens and anyone else who voted against Teresa May.
This thread is about the traffic chaos in Kent. The ports have told us that Brexit is a factor in this. So have those representing those working there. So have those public bodies dealing with the fall out from it. As have the French and the other EU countries. And also the freight and logistics industries...
The only people refusing to accept what's in front of them are that shrinking minority of the public still supporting what is an increasingly obvious, ruinous, self harming policy. Those queues to cross into the EU we've seen recently in Kent are on you. Not me, not Labour or the Lib Dems, not the French or the Germans.
This is 100% what you were told could/would happen yet still voted for...more than once.6 -
So anyway, is the traffic easing up?7
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Bournemouth Addick said:golfaddick said:ThreadKiller said:stop_shouting said:seth plum said:Theresa May tried to make it work.
The issue then was people freaking out about a ‘backstop’.
Had her (albeit flawed) deal gone through there wouldn’t be such a mess as we have now.
So whilst it's not Labours fault they played a big part on stalling the process & not following the will of the people. As did the Lib Dems, the Greens and anyone else who voted against Teresa May.
This thread is about the traffic chaos in Kent. The ports have told us that Brexit is a factor in this. So have those representing those working there. So have those public bodies dealing with the fall out from it. As have the French and the other EU countries. And also the freight and logistics industries...
The only people refusing to accept what's in front of them are that shrinking minority of the public still supporting what is an increasingly obvious, ruinous, self harming policy. Those queues to cross into the EU we've seen recently in Kent are on you. Not me, not Labour or the Lib Dems, not the French or the Germans.
This is 100% what you were told could/would happen yet still voted for...more than once.1 -
ROTW said:So anyway, is the traffic easing up?2
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ROTW said:So anyway, is the traffic easing up?2
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ROTW said:So anyway, is the traffic easing up?
Signs are still saying M20 closed at Junction 8. CCTV still showing queues of HGVs between junctions 8 & 9.
Dover tourists are still being told to use A249, M2.
Dover HGVs use M20, A20
Cross Channel freight use M20
So confusingly, there are conflicting messages for Cross Channel Freight and Dover HGVs. I presume the Dover HGVs are local traffic that doesn't intend to cross the channel, but if you're a foreign lorry driver, how are you supposed to tell the difference. The highways authorities really don't help the situation.
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HGVs are only on the coastbound side of the M20 now, with the coastbound contraflow, which was full of them, completely clear. No idea if or when they’re going to reopen the contraflow yet, with the diversion still from J8 along the A20 to Ashford. Whilst this isn’t a problem at this time of day on a Sunday it’ll be hell come tomorrow morning and the rest of the week if they don’t reopen the contraflow.0
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golfaddick said:Algarveaddick said:stop_shouting said:But this was a cross party referendum. Labour we’re acting like cnuts by whipping their mp’s as they had no brexit policy whatsoever 😂😂 and we’re just voting against the tories out of spite apart from hero’s like Kate hoey. if they had put their country first rather than their party then as Seth says, mays deal would have been better than what we have now. Peppa pig would have been a better leader of the oppo than the beardy weirdy they had back then.
The
Tories
and
their
coalition
partners
had
a
majority.
If
they
had
all
voted
for
it,
it
would
have
passed.
And it wasn't a "cross party referendum", it was a simple HOC vote, just like they have all the time.
Brexit simply cant be done........unless you want to build a hard border in Ireland & reignite the IRA.
My last word on this....promise.
The people to blame imo are :
David Cameron
Tony Blair
IRA
Civil Servants
https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1551138151934066688?s=21&t=n6kkvK30N7usSoZgwb-jbQ
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Ross said:HGVs are only on the coastbound side of the M20 now, with the coastbound contraflow, which was full of them, completely clear. No idea if or when they’re going to reopen the contraflow yet, with the diversion still from J8 along the A20 to Ashford. Whilst this isn’t a problem at this time of day on a Sunday it’ll be hell come tomorrow morning and the rest of the week if they don’t reopen the contraflow.
Heads should roll for this, instead the woman who was in charge of Brock at Highways England was honoured in the Queen's Birthday Honours.
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Algarveaddick said:golfaddick said:BR7_addick said:Here’s me attempting to add balance because brexiteers are gonna brexit and remainers are gonna remain. As in, we all have our biases.
You ask our government who’s fault it is, they say the French.You ask the French government they say it’s the UK’s fault.In other words, you can’t fully trust the politicians on this one, we all agree on that I assume?
So who do you ask? How about the CEO of the port of dover. Seems like the most senior person at the port, also most knowledgable you’d assume to get into such a position.“The extreme delays at the port of Dover are ultimately due to brexit”
So there you have it, it’s most likely, even if his analysis is off slightly, that brexit was a factor. You can still enjoy your brexit if you want, no one’s going to take it away from you, but at least have the balls to listen to something you don’t like. I voted for it by the way, but you don’t have to support it like it’s Charlton.
I dont like what's happened since the vote in 2016 but the aftermath is solely down to the Government, not the voters.
"... in 2019, a minority of people voted for a clown that mumbled "Get Brexit Done" - by then "the people" had three and a half years to find out it was all bullshit, the GFA had been a major topic for a few years too (even though, as you say, it wasn't mentioned in the leaflet that most tabloid brainwashed anti-EU twits ignored), but the dimwits voted to plough on regardless. You certainly can blame "the people" for making the same mistake twice with a host of further knowledge to hand that they chose to ignore."
You knew in 2019 about the problems that Brexit caused with regard to Northern Ireland. You chose to ignore it. You now pretend it isn't your fault because you were not told it would be a problem in 2016. But you admit that you repeated the mistake in 2019.
Additionally, If you believed in 2019 that Brexit was still the "will of the people", why were you bothered about a second referendum? Surely you believed the outcome would be the same as the first if it was "the will of the people"? Or does the "will of the people" only count at specific moments in time when you decide it should?
You said yourself that you didn't have all the information you needed in 2016, so if you were better informed in 2019 (despite choosing to ignore the new information), it stands to reason that so was everyone else. Only an idiot would think that a decison made by people who are better informed is not a more valid decision.
Boris Johnson was PM from July 24th 2019, the election was on December 12th, so this statement "there might not have been a GE in 2019 & Boris wouldn't have been PM." is in fact, untrue, he was already PM at that point.
That is a lot of hoping - hoping that millions of others vote Labour. Then hoping Labour follow through of their manifesto (which would have taken 18 months at least to organise). Then hope that 50.1% then vote Remain.
As for your point regarding Boris. I was merely stating that if Parliament had followed the will of the people then Teresa May would have remained as PM. Boris would not have been elected Conservative Leader & there wouldn't have been a GE in 2019. So, its really the fault of Parliament and the Remainers that we've had Boris for the past 3 years.
And btw - why should I have to change my way of thinking just because I was asked to answer a question that couldn't be answered. Post the vote in 2016 has nothing to do with me. I expected politicians to be able to follow through on what they asked me to vote on. But it seems its Leavers who are at fault for voting on something that couldn't be achieved. I did think in 2019 that The Government should have just given the electorate £5k each & told to forget about the Referendum Vote. (joke btw)
So, I'll turn the question back to you. What do you think people who voted Leave should have done post 2016 ?
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Solve the land border issue on the island of Ireland?0
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ME14addick said:Ross said:HGVs are only on the coastbound side of the M20 now, with the coastbound contraflow, which was full of them, completely clear. No idea if or when they’re going to reopen the contraflow yet, with the diversion still from J8 along the A20 to Ashford. Whilst this isn’t a problem at this time of day on a Sunday it’ll be hell come tomorrow morning and the rest of the week if they don’t reopen the contraflow.
Heads should roll for this, instead the woman who was in charge of Brock at Highways England was honoured in the Queen's Birthday Honours.0 -
Ross said:ME14addick said:Ross said:HGVs are only on the coastbound side of the M20 now, with the coastbound contraflow, which was full of them, completely clear. No idea if or when they’re going to reopen the contraflow yet, with the diversion still from J8 along the A20 to Ashford. Whilst this isn’t a problem at this time of day on a Sunday it’ll be hell come tomorrow morning and the rest of the week if they don’t reopen the contraflow.
Heads should roll for this, instead the woman who was in charge of Brock at Highways England was honoured in the Queen's Birthday Honours.0 -
The whataboutery is strong in this thread.3
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Good news - the contraflow has reopened to non freight traffic this morning.1
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And when you get through the tunnel, (you have the misfortune of being disabled), https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62287752. In future you may find yourself having to adapt somewhat.
I'm sure this mess will sort itself out sooner or a lot, lot later or may be will have to get used to our new found freedoms and fall back on our plucky Brit exceptionalism.
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golfaddick said:Algarveaddick said:golfaddick said:BR7_addick said:Here’s me attempting to add balance because brexiteers are gonna brexit and remainers are gonna remain. As in, we all have our biases.
You ask our government who’s fault it is, they say the French.You ask the French government they say it’s the UK’s fault.In other words, you can’t fully trust the politicians on this one, we all agree on that I assume?
So who do you ask? How about the CEO of the port of dover. Seems like the most senior person at the port, also most knowledgable you’d assume to get into such a position.“The extreme delays at the port of Dover are ultimately due to brexit”
So there you have it, it’s most likely, even if his analysis is off slightly, that brexit was a factor. You can still enjoy your brexit if you want, no one’s going to take it away from you, but at least have the balls to listen to something you don’t like. I voted for it by the way, but you don’t have to support it like it’s Charlton.
I dont like what's happened since the vote in 2016 but the aftermath is solely down to the Government, not the voters.
"... in 2019, a minority of people voted for a clown that mumbled "Get Brexit Done" - by then "the people" had three and a half years to find out it was all bullshit, the GFA had been a major topic for a few years too (even though, as you say, it wasn't mentioned in the leaflet that most tabloid brainwashed anti-EU twits ignored), but the dimwits voted to plough on regardless. You certainly can blame "the people" for making the same mistake twice with a host of further knowledge to hand that they chose to ignore."
You knew in 2019 about the problems that Brexit caused with regard to Northern Ireland. You chose to ignore it. You now pretend it isn't your fault because you were not told it would be a problem in 2016. But you admit that you repeated the mistake in 2019.
Additionally, If you believed in 2019 that Brexit was still the "will of the people", why were you bothered about a second referendum? Surely you believed the outcome would be the same as the first if it was "the will of the people"? Or does the "will of the people" only count at specific moments in time when you decide it should?
You said yourself that you didn't have all the information you needed in 2016, so if you were better informed in 2019 (despite choosing to ignore the new information), it stands to reason that so was everyone else. Only an idiot would think that a decison made by people who are better informed is not a more valid decision.
Boris Johnson was PM from July 24th 2019, the election was on December 12th, so this statement "there might not have been a GE in 2019 & Boris wouldn't have been PM." is in fact, untrue, he was already PM at that point.
That is a lot of hoping - hoping that millions of others vote Labour. Then hoping Labour follow through of their manifesto (which would have taken 18 months at least to organise). Then hope that 50.1% then vote Remain.
As for your point regarding Boris. I was merely stating that if Parliament had followed the will of the people then Teresa May would have remained as PM. Boris would not have been elected Conservative Leader & there wouldn't have been a GE in 2019. So, its really the fault of Parliament and the Remainers that we've had Boris for the past 3 years.
And btw - why should I have to change my way of thinking just because I was asked to answer a question that couldn't be answered. Post the vote in 2016 has nothing to do with me. I expected politicians to be able to follow through on what they asked me to vote on. But it seems its Leavers who are at fault for voting on something that couldn't be achieved. I did think in 2019 that The Government should have just given the electorate £5k each & told to forget about the Referendum Vote. (joke btw)
So, I'll turn the question back to you. What do you think people who voted Leave should have done post 2016 ?
1) You should have voted Labour or Lib Dem (or Green if you live in Brighton) whatever prevented the Tories getting in, as their only election pledge seemed to be "Get Brexit Done", and you knew it was impossible.
2) Hoping is irrelevant, if you had voted against the Tories, you would have not been one of those to blame for the current situation, which you and a minority of UK voters clearly are. Even then, I think most people would see that hoping for a better future is better than knowingly voting for a worse one. Which you did.
3) Parliament didn't know the will of the people, it knew that 14.7 million people voted to leave the EU in a badly put together referendum question (entirely down to the Tories), had all the Tories voted for the deal then May would have won the day, but 34 of them voted against it. I will repeat that for you - May would have won, whatever way Labour, Lib Dem, PC and all the rest had voted if her own party, the Tories (that you voted for), had not been split on the vote. Boris Johnson himself switched to back May's deal, then flipped back again when he sniffed a go at the big prize. You knew that. You voted for him.
4) You don't have to change your vote, but you should accept your part in causing the chaos that prevails, rather than repeatedly blaming people who voted against it rather than yourself.
5) By the 2019 election the people who voted leave should have had the sense to see the ample new evidence before them that Brexit was a bad thing for almost everyone, including but not exclusively the info about the GFA. They also knew that the man leading the Tories was a liar (many times over) and should have been nowhere near the ultimate political job in the UK.
People who voted for Brexit are to blame, not those who voted against.
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ME14addick said:golfaddick said:So, if the EU like freedom of movement so much why don't they just have no border checks ? It hasn't mattered for the past 30 years do why just not bother for the next few weeks whilst its busy 🤔
Border checks are to protect the integrity of the single market WE chose to leave.0 - Sponsored links:
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thickandthin63 said:ME14addick said:golfaddick said:So, if the EU like freedom of movement so much why don't they just have no border checks ? It hasn't mattered for the past 30 years do why just not bother for the next few weeks whilst its busy 🤔
Border checks are to protect the integrity of the single market WE chose to leave.
It must be a nightmare for HGV drivers trying to get out of the UK, some producers are now not bothering to export to the UK because of the hassle getting back.0 -
What a load of bollocks on here by the remoaners.The vast majority of people do not give a shit about the more intricate side of politics.When the vote to leave was taken,"The Majority " of the voters where pissed off with being told what to do by other countries,pissed off with our own laws and court judgements being subject to over ruling by a load of pumped up over paid,un elected self indulgant popinjays in Brussels and Strasbourg,have any of you ever seen the extravagant buildings,the fleets of Mercedes which constantly ferry noneties about holding volumes of paper which are probably blank.If the French or whoever else in the EU wants to punish us by delaying our holiday makers,thats a pitiful reaction to not getting their own way,personally the EU countries can get stuffed.Look how they policed the Champions league final,blamed the English for everything.As far as I am concerned they can get knotted I wouldnt set foot in their little republic for anything.18
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thickandthin63 said:What a load of bollocks on here by the remoaners.The vast majority of people do not give a shit about the more intricate side of politics.When the vote to leave was taken,"The Majority " of the voters where pissed off with being told what to do by other countries,pissed off with our own laws and court judgements being subject to over ruling by a load of pumped up over paid,un elected self indulgant popinjays in Brussels and Strasbourg,have any of you ever seen the extravagant buildings,the fleets of Mercedes which constantly ferry noneties about holding volumes of paper which are probably blank.If the French or whoever else in the EU wants to punish us by delaying our holiday makers,thats a pitiful reaction to not getting their own way,personally the EU countries can get stuffed.Look how they policed the Champions league final,blamed the English for everything.As far as I am concerned they can get knotted I wouldnt set foot in their little republic for anything.8
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A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.0 -
It's NOT punishment... We have the same customs and entry requirements for France as Niger, Bolivia and Brunei do. That was the 'deal' agreed (and lauded) by OUR government.6
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The French are exercising ‘sovereignty’, I would’ve imagined leave voters would adore them for that.7
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Chippycafc said:A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.7 -
A tip for flying to America.
Go to Shannon cheap on Ryanair from Gatwick.
Fly to America from Shannon, because the American checks can be done at Shannon and you can stroll off the aeroplane and get going as soon as you land in America.5 -
seth plum said:A tip for flying to America.
Go to Shannon cheap on Ryanair from Gatwick.
Fly to America from Shannon, because the American checks can be done at Shannon and you can stroll off the aeroplane and get going as soon as you land in America.
You then have better direct flights from Ireland to across the pond, from Shannon you only have Boston or New York1